A good friend of my wife's lives in a small rural, poor, former mining town with no local or township police. She has a severe spine ailment causing her to be hunched over and move like an 80 plus year old even though she is in her 40's and still works. Her home is one of the few nice, well kept properties in the area and it has been broken-in to several times in the past two years. Three of the break-ins by the same drug addict. The State Police take anywhere from 30 to 60 minutes to respond to this area, as it is 20 miles from the nearest barracks.

Recently, someone tried to enter her home by breaking a window while she was home and sleeping. She heard the noise and screamed 'I have a GUN and a BIG DOG!!'. The attempted intruder ran away. She has neither a gun or a big dog. My wife, an avid shooter, suggested her friend get a pump shotgun for home defense and a .38 Special revolver for carry (after acquiring a LCTF).Wife said we would gladly teach her safety and how to shoot. Her reply " I don't want a gun, they'll just take it from me and kill me with it." Wife then showed her Kimber OC spray (The red gun shaped one) that she carries where firearms are prohibited. Her friend didn't want that either! "I'm scared I'll spray myself accidentally."

I don't understand people who are totally unwilling to do anything at all to protect themselves from the criminal dregs of society because they truly believe any attempt to protect themselves is more dangerous than being a sheep!

Their mindset seems to be, "it won't happen to me!/ The police wii save me!" It's just denial of reality, and it's hard to get past it.
I tried for over 17 years on someone like that. Didn't work out.
TACC1

If you are worried about an intruder using it against you, I guess it's best to keep a pillow nearby as a weapon....

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Thirty characters. Exactly...

Some people are just like that. My wealthy, highly educated Sister and BIL live in a very upscale home, outside a major City rarely lock their doors, have lots of valuable things and just HATE guns or even the thought of them. They travel a lot, home is just a big nice target.

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Still Running Against the Wind

Some people are just not psychologically suited to use firearms, it's just not in their nature. This is usually more common in women then men, it's just their nature. It takes a certain amount of "aggressiveness" to shoot someone and some folks just don't have it. Perhaps some form of "panic button" would work for her, such as the "Lifeline" program. Anything's better than nothing.

Don't get me started. I offered to give my step son a Glock 19 for home protection. You know what he said? "No thanks, I've got children in the house."
So when the house gets broken in to he will have to protect his children without a firearm, he'll get killed and the bad guys will do what they want. IF the children survive they will live the rest of their lives fatherless.

Please provide more details...

I've saw a lot of these people posting on news sites around the internet. They really are convinced that only a police officer can possibly manage to handle a firearm properly; anyone else will, according to them, either shoot innocents or have the gun taken away and will be shot themselves. It's impossible to convince them otherwise. They sometimes grudgingly admit that a current/former military member might possibly be able to handle a firearm, but they absolutely can't believe that there are regular people who actually train more than most police. They are also convinced that people who carry guns are some kind of wild-west lunatic that will start shooting crazy at the slightest provocation.

I think we need to really work on educating people as much as possible.

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"... shall not be infringed."

Get her a dog.

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Cheers -Jeff

nah .. dont bother reprogramming them. most often they come with attitudes we find irritating ... let em think we'll air condition their chests at the drop of a hat ... keeps em out of our hair and lends to a peaceful existence.

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it just needs more voltage

Just because I believe that every law-abiding person has the right to own a gun, that doesn't mean that I think every such person should own a gun. Some people are just not temperamentally disposed to employing one advantageously. Number one would be the mind set that killing someone in defense of one's self is fully justifiable. Number two would be the concomitant willingness to employ the firearm. Number three would be the ability to use it - reflexes and some necessary strength would apply here. My mother, bless her soul, in her 90s, was not able to employ a gun when she lived alone. Her only defense was calling me or 911 - I was but minutes away, and quite willing and able to repel boarders. Who knows about the police.

Jeff Cooper once said that evil is not defeated by running away from it. It's also not defeated by cowering and letting someone else determine your fate. In many cases, a very territorial dog of sufficient size and vocal ability would do the trick for those not able or willing to employ a firearm.

For those who have the proper mindset and are physically able to employ a gun, they have that right and probably should have one. Those who are not mentally and physically capable of killing someone in their own defense probably make the right choice in not obtaining a gun. Not all are warriors. Some are sheep and some are sheepdogs. The sheep operate at a distinct disadvantage in self defense, but that is their choice and they must live with the possible consequences.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

I'd make it a "big" dog !!!

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Laus Deo! <><

If a person does not have the resolve to use it, then yes it could be more of a liability than an asset. Because it very well could be used against you.

I agree.
I know people who have access to firearms, but if worse came to worse...they could not, under any circumstances, could use ANY sort of force to protect themselves or others...one will NOT call the police, either. (I won't go into the reason given here to protect identities).

If an individual does not want to take responsibility for their own safety and well-being...the only thing anyone can do is pray for them and hope they do not become another statstic on some agency's blotter.

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The Last Standing Knight

The person I mentioned in the start of this thread is a dyed in the wool CAT person. She has several. A big dog would at least deter the "casual criminal" types.

I agree with all the posters who stated that having a firearm for protection without having the mindset and fortitude to use it is a bad idea. I still fell she should at least have a good OC defense spray. Even with a 'Panic button" the State Police will take too long to arrive at her house. She needs a PANIC ROOM and OC spray..

Unfortunatly that is 100% correct. I think I know some of those people.

Why, by "getting" her anything, presume to force your will on an avid sheep?
Even Jesus can only save those who wish to be saved.

It may seem odd to mention this in the same post with Jesus, but God created Darwinism, too. Those too timid to adapt and overcome will be eaten by the predators at their own choosing.

(hard-***)Mike

Okay, I carry a gun and have done so for many years. Most, by far, of my friends do NOT...and even if instantly available, would not. They are accepting of my decision; I am of their decision.

Why do so many of you think folks MUST (perhaps tbe wrong adverb) own/carry a gun? It is a personal choice.

Be safe.

When I was an investigator I worked a serial rape case in which on of the victims had been given a 2.5 inch Model 19 by her father. It was stoked with some kind of magnum round and had never been fired. She had placed the gun under her pillow, and that is where it was the whole time she was brutally assaulted on her own bed, with the 19 under the pillow....
If you have ever worked these kinds of cases you know how much time you spend talking to the victim, not just in the interview, but for court prep, updates on the case...etc....
We talked about her having that firearm under the pillow, and she just always insisted she just didn't know how to use it, and didn't think she could if she knew how....
I think the problems with giving someone a firearm and thinking they are "armed" is obvious.

I never understood that "they'll take it away from me and use it on me." mentality. If you are just going to let the person take the gun from you as opposed to shooting them with it and letting them take the bullets internally then you really shouldn't have a firearm. I guess she plans on being a victim from now on.

What I laugh at these people for is they are the same who act like a most people can't handle a handgun safely and effectively so no permits should be allowed, but turn it around and the same handgun is so easy to handle that they should be outlawed because the average person can use them effectively.

Sheep to the wolves!

Owning a kettle, doesn't make you a chef. Food servings begin in 10 minutes.

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S&WHF 366

loco,
Sheeple Mentality, too bad, she's probably a nice lady.

Rule 303

If they have no value of their own life, then why would you? Not really, but you see my point. If you and a loved one are on a boat in the ocean and it sinks and you can swim and your loved-one can't, you would try to save them. If they drag you under, you will die together or you will let them go. This is harsh and terrible to think about, but what would you do? Really? How far will you go? If my dearest love on this earth refuses to help themselves when they have the ability, then what is my answer? Everyone has a line if they know it or not. Lets hope we don't have to bump up against that line.

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Go big or stay home

Good thing that violent video games and incessant TV violence have cured the current generation of such squeamishness. Though it still important to start bayonet practice before age five. Nods.

I'm not buying your quote

Take this as a compliment.

You and I both served in the US Army and we are both veterans.
I think both of us and a lot of other vets would go to the max to help others. You have already done it once in your life as many others have. Just my opinion.

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Doesn't hasta call me Johnson

She may have thought it through and knows she would not-could not- use deadly force on another human being, or even hurt one. It isn't always about fear, but that's a big factor. Some folks won't have a gun because it reinforces the reality that something could very well happen. Think about it,We have handed out a whole bunch of decorations to medics and others that went and served, but wouldn't handle a gun. It is easy to considder how others should be from OUR point of view, but it is more enligtening to look at how they might view things. It ain't all about how we see it for others, just our selves (?) I say "get her a dog" like the man said. There are vollunteers waiting at the humane society who would jump at the oppurtunity to tear the next "big bad robber man" a new one.

It might be taken from me and used againt me, but the *** will have to beat me with it 'cause it'll be empty !

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CSM, U S Army(Ret) 1963-1990

Since she seems to be the non-violence type, I'll volunteer to have my mother-in-law move in with her. She does a fine job of keeping people away.

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Expect no quarter.

I would get a loaded shotgun and plug the barrel and place it near the front door. Let them use it against me.

.... you should wait until a dark, stormy night, and cut the power to her house. then, creep up to her bedroom while making these horrible dragging noises .. and just as the lightening strikes and illuminates her room, raise a chainsaw over your head and scream through the holes on your hockey mask 'YOU'RE GONNA DIE, WOMAN!!!! WHEEEEEEEEEEE!!! and gas the chainsaw, sliding it through a large piece of furniture. Hopefully she doesn't have a heart attack and will have left the house while you are slicing up her dresser.

Next day, see if she'd like a gun.

Any decent person knows that committing murder is morally wrong. But many folks do not makes a distinction between the committing of murder and killing. To them it is one and the same. In fact the bible does say "Thou Shalt not kill". Unfortunately this comes from a translation that fails to distinguish between taking a human life and criminal homicide.

So, if a person believes that taking another human life is morally wrong, then yes they would prefer to be a victim. At least it was someone else doing wrong and not them. I believe that this is the main reason that more people do not prepare to make what i consider a proper response to violent attacks against them.

Here is one with a happy ending. Makes me proud to have grown up in North Dakota.

Elderly Jamestown man holds intruder at bay with handgun

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I like Ike.

We should learn something from this...

HAVE a gun and a big dog.

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'Merica!

Excellent post, NKJ nut. There are a number like that in my area, but I would venture to say that there is another factor which is even more significant in preventing most people from using force to defend themselves.

In spite of the violence which so often plagues more heavily populated areas, there are still vast regions of this country which remain relatively free of the threat of criminal assault. Scores of millions of us have been raised and continue to live in areas which go for many years without a single murder, rape, or etc. I'm thankful to live in such an area. The danger of this is that the psyche of many a resident is so shaped by his/her peaceful existence that it cannot stand the shock even of contemplating being attacked and striking back. Such a scenario is so alien and terrible that they refuse even to think about it. Since obtaining a gun for defense would force them to think about such things, they can't/won't consider it.

I've not described the above phenomenon very well, but I'm convinced that it exists. In my view we ought to gently but persistently seek to persuade any who will listen that there is no guarantee of safety and that some awful things happen to people like them. They owe it to themselves and their loved ones for whom they are responsible to equip themselves with some means of defense.

Andy

@ snowman ...
I used to live in such a place. While it may seem a peaceful flowery Utopia on the surface, with a little digging around you will find evil is alive and well despite what the neighbors say .. which is all too often what they have been told versus what they have actually seen.
Our cities may be host to gang wars and drug traffic, this is the "retail" end of the chain. Its in the rolling hills and peaceful beauty of the country where weed is grown, meth is produced, and all else is processed. Thats how bumbling hikers and hunters end up missing.
Its nothing new really, same old song and dance from the days when moonshine was the meth of the prohibition era.
as hard as we may try, we cant escape it, only stand against it.

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it just needs more voltage

Having taught classes in handgun safety and marksmanship it is "Usually" evident there is one or more in a class that should not have a handgun. Either mentally or physically are not equipped to properly handle a firearm.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Rule3, you willing to get a little more specific with an address?

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Always Stay Strong!

I've pondered this same question over the years. How anyone could loose the fundamental desire for self preservation is beyond me.
I guess that we may have become too civilized

The sad part is that you can not change these peoples mind. They have their mind made up and that is it...period.

Why not a 5 Guys cheeseburger and a vodka on the rocks nearby as weapons? I'd rather have those used on me...

Unfortunately their votes count just as much as ours...

venom,

I follow you and agree, but I'm not sure we're on the same page. I wasn't suggesting that there is no "evil" in an area like mine. I monitor the pulse of things by reviewing the police and court dockets regularly in area newspapers. Yes, there is illegal drug activity here and there. Where regions such as this one differ from more heavily populated areas is in the chances of the average resident of being a victim of violent crime. It is extremely rare for that to happen. The only possible exception is domestic cases, and virtually all of these are just a punch or a slap. No hunter here has ever been murdered(There are no hikers -this is the Corn Belt; nothing but flat farmland dotted with woodlots and small towns. . .not hiking territory.). Those involved with the drug culture generally keep to themselves. Exceptions are few and far between.

This is largely what makes the promotion of self-defense measures something of a hard-sell around here. Maybe 99% of the locals live their entire lives without ever experiencing the slightest threat to their physical well-being from another person. To many of these folks, such a thing is virtually inconceivable. And many of these, I believe, find it so uncomfortable to think about that they won't consider arming themselves.

I wonder if you're thinking of more remote, sparsely-populated areas where drug manufacturers find it easier to hide their activities.

Regards,
Andy

We likely differ only by the paragraph on the page.
area to area the specific industry will differ as one type of geography will support an endeavor better than another.
when its wide open as you describe, your meth labs might not be as numerous as the back woods of WI, but your growing operations will out number WI's as its better supported. none the less a generic "it" exists and may be defended which is where folks not in the know can get jammed up.
yup ... locals do tend to stick their heads in the sand about these things as its a city problem ... right?! nah .. the city end is where its sold, rural end is where its produced and your right, its a hard sell. But what isnt a hard sell in a rural area is the simple fact that your closer to nature out there, and no, nature isnt half the friend they think it is.
packs of Yotes and or wild dogs and or bear, and or fill in the blank IS the pitch you'd find most effective for increasing the number of ready weapons in homes
if it saves em from two legged varmints down the road ... bonus / mission acomplished

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it just needs more voltage

I have met more than a few people in my life who have told me some version of "I would rather be injured or killed than take a human life" / "I trust in G-d to protect me, so I am not worried and have no need for a gun" "I am probably safer by not being a threat to some criminal than I would be if I was armed." These fall in line with that "he would take my gun away and use it on me" philosophy.

I think they have the right to hold such views and would not impose my views on them or wish them ill.

I just wish they weren't allowed to vote.