Hi:
I have been advised that in a "Push Comes To Shove" time, a .30/06 owner out of ammo can fire .308 cartridges in his .30/06 with no ill effects and have acceptable accuracy.
Opinions?
Thanks,
Jimmy

No. .308 vs.30-06 headspace on the shoulder of the cartridge. You'd only end up way short with the .308 in a 30-06. It wouldn't even go bang and if for some strange reason it did the .308 would become shrapnel sort to speak.

Now I think at some point in time there was an adapter that would allow you to do this. The bullets themselves are the same physical size for the most part.

Hobie....watching and learning

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It can be done. More than a few folks have discovered this when they mistakenly loaded a clip of 7.62mm into a .30-06 chambered M-1 Garand. The rounds usually fire just fine. POI will usually be slightly lower. And the ejected casings will have a funky looking shoulder/case mouth. But it causes no damage to the rifle.

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The COL for a 30-06 is 3.170. The COL for a .308 is 2.690. These are first glance at Hornady's load data. That's almost a 1/2 inch difference in length. .480 actually. Don't see it happening. I have a Garand and a 700 .308 and load for both.

I am open to learning.

Hobie

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I'm going down to the cave after dinner and I'm going to put an inert .308 in my Garand. I don't doubt that you could load 7.62 in a Garand clip, but I think that it's going to chamber deep. Now if the Garand's chamber was dirty, it might hold a Nato round where it might fire. However, after experiencing M-1 thumb, I doubt it.

But, I could be mistaken. I do enjoy learning new things.

Except M-1 thumb.....

Hobie

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enabled alert.

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Three possibilities-
1> The extractor holds the rim, pin strikes primer, round fires and is HELD by extractor.
Mostly no harm-no foul.

2>The extractor holds the rim tight enough for detonation, but the pin knocks the rd forward as it strikes it.
Bad scene. Expect a head separation, lots of hot gas and/or bits of brass and primer.

3> In a push-feed like the Ruger 77 or Rem 700, I doubt it will even fire. If anyone tries it, get back to us when you can.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Ahh, extractor hold on. Plausible, not something I considered. All in all, I would think that things would be shakey at best. I'm going to try some .222 Remington in my AR tomorrow.
I'm not being annoying on purpose...it comes naturally
Hobie

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Make sure you get video and don't forget to look into the camera, and say, "Hey y'all, watch this!"

Here, hold my beer. "Hey Y'all watch this!!

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The .308 and the 30-06 are 2 different animals. I never bothered to compare them because I loaded what was appropriate for my rifles. However, they aren't close to the same. What surprised me was the .308 wouldn't chamber all the way in my aught 6. There was, by my rough guess, about a 1/4 inch sticking out of the chamber. If the bolt closed on that, it would probably, I think, fire out of battery which wouldn't be pleasent. I don't see any way it could be safely fired and no, no film at 11.

Hobie... I see I have mail.

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The US Army thought about the 7.62 NATO vs .30-06 compatibility for a long time before adopting the 7.62 x 51 NATO cartridge for service rifles and machine guns. The M1 .30-06 had been the service rifle since 1936, and the M1903 Springfield for several generations before that.

The 7.62 NATO (.308 Winchester in civilian clothes) will chamber tightly in the .30-06 chamber, such that the should dimension interferes slightly in the .30-06 chamber. It will chamber and fire, SAFELY with no case head separation, blown case, or other extreme gas leakage. The US Army tested this concept extensively (At Aberdeen Proving Gournd, I think) in field trials with M1 rifles and M1918 BAR, and M1919 machine guns.

I have personally fired many rounds of .308 Winchester in M1 rifles, Remington M742 rifles, and a few others. All fired with almost full velocity, and no damage to either rifles or shooters. The .308 case blows it's neck out to fill the .30-06 chamber shoulder. Still, no harm done.

In some rifles with tight chambers, the .308 Winchester round will chamber hard, and may require repeated attempts to chamber and fire.

I would not hesitate to fire this combination in a survival or self defense scenario.

There is an adapter that is actually glued into the chamber of a 30-06 that allows a 308 to be fired. These are easy to install and remove according to the manufacter.

In the M1 and M14 rifle designs, there are firing pin stops that prevent the rifle firing out of battery. Again, the US Army tested this compatibility extensively before adopting and fielding the 7.62 x 51mm NATO round for service rifle and machine gun standard.

I for one am learning things tonight that I never gave much thought to. More!!!>>>>

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C-H or maybe it was Hollywood Gun Shop had the .308-to-.30-06 chamber adapters. It was developed by the US Navy for adapting Garand M1 service rifles nto fire the newer 7.62 NATO round. It was called the "Navy sleeve".

I did a couple of these conversions, but they proved somewhat unreliable. You had to run a .308 chambering reamer into the chamber after installing the adapter to make the chamber reliably accept .308 ammunition. Often the sleeve would extract with a fired case, and you have to stop and reinstall it again.

US Navy armorers discovered the same problem and went to threaded and locktite glued in sleeves until they had M1 barrels chambered specifically for the 7.62 NATO round.

The beginning of hunting season I usually sight my rifles in for accuracy check.. This year was no different. My Son likes his 308 so I sighted his in first and figured it`ll be better if we both shoot the same cartridge so I sighted in a pre-64 M70 308 featherweight I have. After both were on target I sighted in my backup rifle, a pre-64 M70 featherweight in 30-06. For whatever reason I chambered in a 308 instead of a 30-06. Right on target when I looked through the spotting scope, but was sure surprised when I ejected a 308 case that looked more like a 38-55 case.

Not sure if the pre-64 extractor is what held it firm enough for the firing pin, but the primer was well struck. It did fire with no problem, but I won`t being doing that again.

Rod

With respect, I was referring to information I had read at a number of sources... primarily Culver Shooting Page... (CSP).

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If you compare SAAMI .30-06 chamber dimensions with the maximum .308 cartridge dimensions, you will see there is a only a couple thousandths of an inch overlap between the .308 W at the shoulder compared to the same point in the .30-06 chamber.

This overlap in dimensions was intentional as the US Army wanted a cartridge to replace the .30-06 that would not damage the rifle/machine gun or shooter if the combination was accidentally fired.

By happy coincidence (?) the .308 powdr charge is about 85-95% that of the .30-06, and the service bullets are almost identical (147 grains vs 150 grains, etc). Firing the .308 W in a .30-06 chamber will give a fully lethal bullet at almost full velocity. Yes, the combination is SAFE!

Many years ago I was scoring an Air Force shooter at a Leg match at Coalinga in central California and he was shooting a NM M1 Garand. I noticed his empty's looked kind of funny, like a 410 brass case with a slight crimp. I tapped him on the shoulder and told him to stop firing as he had picked up 7.62 NATO Match instead of 30-06 Match.
They fired fine. I have picked up a few of these funny looking fired cases on the line at several shoots over the years.

I have about ten of the little inserts that convert a chamber from 30-06 to .308. Used to be a company in Ideeho that sold them. Work great if you locktite them into the chamber, but if you don't they come out of the fired brass.

I get very good accuracy when using them.
For me they are a SHTF item.

Jungle Work

I knew this fella that bought an AR upper at a gun show. all new. slapped his lower on and sighted it in. the 223 case was blown out at the neck. checked bore, no obstruction. 2nd shot same thing, and a key hole in target. removed lower and bolt. borrowed a 7.62x39 from a near by shooter- nice flush fit in chamber. bullet end looked better compared to the muzzle than the 223 bullet.
Ordered a 762x39 bolt to hold the correct shell case and the rifle was up and running as a 30 cal. Took the hand guard off and not a single marking or name on it.
But, the 223 bolt, held and fired the shell. instead of letting it fall into the 7.62 chamber.
You try to be on your toes, especially concerning gun shows, But my buddy didn't see that one coming.
Bet the builder is still trying to figure where his 30 cal barrel went.

seen the aftermath ... its a no harm no fowl scenario .. yes it can be done but that first extracted case absolutely will convince you against trying again

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it just needs more voltage

Most 30-06 chambers will accept and hold a 7.62 Nato and/or a 308Win round in a position that allows for acceptable headspace to fire w/o incident.

The 7.62/308 will (nearly always)drop into the 30-06 chamber as already pointed out to about the same depth that a 30-06 round will and allow the bolt to close, engage the extractor and fire.
The shoulder dia of the 7.62/308 is such that it wedges in the 30-06 chamber just before hitting the '06 chamber shoulder.

I say 'most' because there are variations in cartridge dimentions and more than a few rifles with different chamber specs.
If certain highs and lows of specs are mated between cartridge and chamber, certainly a poor headspace situation would be presented. But this is supposed to be a survival situation as originally posted. Not an everyday range event.

There is enough of a difference in between the 7.62Nato and the 308 Winchester commercial cartridge to designate them as 2 different rounds.
The max service pressure difference between the two is 10K psi with the 308 commerial rd running the high number.

So you are really dealing with at least 3 different rounds and combinations of specs.

But it does work most all the time..

If you hear a southerner say this stand WELL back. What follows may very well be the last thing he ever does.

CW

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I have and will continue to enjoy this thread. I must have a fairly tight chambered M-1 as the .308 round would have to be firmly pushed into the 30-06 chamber in my gun to work.

Hobie

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In my experience , a .308 round will NOT chamber in over a dozen 30-06 rifles I own. Out of 5-1903s , 3-1917s , 4-M-1 Garands and 2-Rugers , a No.1 and M77 , I can only get a fresh 7.62 blank round to chamber in one of the 1917s , and only if I bang the bolt handle forward and down.

Though the case head dia is the same , and the .308 is shorter than the 30-06 , it also has less body taper. The Garands usually needed a chamber reamer with the Navy sleeve.

The only thing more funner than trying to fire cartridges in guns not chambered for them is doing it whilst drinking beer.

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Sorry-
I had forgotten this.
I learned it many decades ago. I guess I just don't put the wrong ammo in a gun often enough!

DO watch out for putting 380 in a 9mm.
In controlled round guns, my #2 scenario CAN happen-

2>The extractor holds the rim tight enough for detonation, but the pin knocks the rd forward as it strikes it.
Bad scene. Expect a head separation, lots of hot gas and/or bits of brass and primer.

It probably won't cause a head separation, but it can blow the primer out of the case and into into quite a few pieces.
We won't discuss how I know this.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

I use .380's and 9x21's all the time in my 9mm Luger.

Oh...that's because it has a longer chamber and uses moonclips.

Don't ever take .35 Remington ammunition to the range along with .308...a friend of mine did that with disastrous results.
Fortunately, only his pride was hurt.

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http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC...pringfield.pdf

http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC...Winchester.pdf

SAAMI doesn't list the NATO .308 specs. The .308 I was using last night was some Black Hills match .308 and it would not chamber enough in my M-1 Garand to fire in light of the restricted firing pin design. I would have to use a small hammer to chamber it. More beer!

It has been an interesting thread to read.

Hobie

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I have fired, 7.62 Nato's out of my M1, no problem, they seemed to head space on the slightly bigger shoulder and fired and ejected fine with no noticed effect on the rifle. I was always told this was by design when they adopted the cartridge. I think the military learned their lesson with the .45 Colt-.45 Schofield fiasco of the 1870's.

I find an empty case at the range once in a while where this has happened. It looks like a straight case with a roll crimp, but nothing else seems out of whack.

I never cease to be amazed at the dumb stuff people come up with regarding firing arms and ammunition!!

Thankfully, the gene pool is self-cleaning!!

Firearms should have the proper ammunition printed on it somewhere...if it isn't on the firearm DON'T use it!!! This ain't brain surgery.................

A few years ago my son and I were at the rifle range. He accidentally loaded a .308 round into my 30.06 It shot fine and it hit the target down-range. When he went to extract the casing the bolt was stiff. I had to work a little to get the newly formed casing out. It looked odd but the brass wasn't torn or anything. I wouldn't want to make a habit of it but the gun didn't blow up and the bullet went down range.

I had just bought my Rem 700 ADL Thanksgiving 2013 at Wal-Mart with a 20% discount. This was my first real Big Game (ELK) hunting rifle. It was an indoor range, and I had just fired my first 20 30.06 rounds, out of amo I bought another Box but was given 308 in a all white box, I loaded 4 into the rifle, I chambered the first 308, and fired, it fired without incedent, I cyclrd the bolt and out came the spent 308 casing, then the next 308 did not want to load properly, I got help from a old sniper seal who unloaded the rifle and said you are shooting 308's he looked at the chamber and barrel and said looks OK. I have fired 40 additional rounds and the rifle seems to be OK???
comments welcome, my Dumb Mistake -Always check your Ammo, now at 100 yards my group is 4 inches, however my CVA 50 Cal Optima (New 2014) shoots a 2 inch group at 100 yards, Both rifles are 3 X 9 scopes, sitting and leaning on concrete table.

Please don't take this as criticism but why would anyone dredge up a thread that was almost three years old? I've seen this before and am just curious. It would seem that a thread from 2011 is pretty much dead.

Please no offense meant just piqued curiosity.

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A friend of mine in Alaska did this when he was first learning to shoot.
No harm to the rifle or shooter, can't recall any remarks about accuracy.
He sent me pictures of the brass.
That is scary looking.
I'd do it if and only if I was so jammed up I'd be risking my life by not taking the shot.

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I view this whole thread as "A STUPID - what if",

We all know the basic safety rule "use the correct ammo for the gun".

There is a difference between "can I ?" & "should I ?"

Now, for instance let's say a person is 20 miles from home, been partying & is slightly intoxicated. Can he drive home? - probably, should he drive home? - DEAFINATLY not! - Would it be safe for him to drive? - ABSOUTLY not!

Enter all the "YAH, but once I did 28 miles & nothing bad happened!" ETC. Does the various testimonials make it right?

GET REAL folks, the safety rules are there for a purpose. Will each time you push the limit jump up & bite you? Prolly not, but realize when you deviate from safe procedure, you become a candidate for the Darwin Award of self extermination.

Murphy's Law is real & can jump up & get you!

Once fired a .270 out of my buddies 7mm RM. Got a face full of powder burns and a wierd piece of fire formed brass with a spkit in it. Accuracy wasnt bad

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