I'm looking at a revolver for sale at a pawn shop in New Mexico, half the country away from me. I found it on an auction site, and called the store directly to ask questions. He quoted me an "in store" price of $30 cheaper than the "buy it now" auction site price, but said he has to add 8.3% sales tax, before shipping cost. It's still less than the auction price site, but I've never paid sales tax when ordering over the phone.

I've done the same scenario with other out of state pawn shops, and never paid tax. He said the gun is not listed on a website, just the auction site, so I can't place an online order which would be tax free, and that everything sold from the store gets taxed. So my only choice is pay the higher auction site price, or pay the sales tax. Has anyone else encountered this?
Josh P

My ffl will charge tax from any store...only from a private party does he not charge tax. But that would be California sales tax, not from the state I'm buying it from....just be sure you aren't paying tax twice in both states.

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Thirty characters. Exactly...

He's trying to rip you off.

I have been charged tax on the value of the gun by the receiving dealer. One time. Never dealt with him again.

If the Pawn Shop in New Mexico also has a shop in West (by God) Virginia, then you would have to pay sales tax, but it would be paid to WV, not to NM. That is, you would pay him the tax, but he would send it to the WV department of revenue (or whatever they call it up there).

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I always take precautions

From a pure taxable basis, you should not pay a state's sales tax when the product is shipped to another state. However, you will owe use tax on any goods you have shipped to West Virginia. Use tax is the tax you pay on any product brought into, and used, in your state. The tax rates for sales and use taxes are generally the same; and though folks use the terms interchangeably, they are not the same.

The seller in New Mexico, will not have to remit sales tax to the New Mexico state government on any product he/she ships out of state. If he charges you sales tax, that 8.3% ends up as additional profit for him. On a $500 sale, he will net an additional $41.50.

You don't have a lot of leverage from West Virginia, to New Mexico.

This is a hot topic in many states as sales tax revenue's are being lost to out of state sellers that AREN'T required to collect it for goods shipped out of state unless, as the previous poster pointed out, the retailer has another location in your state.
In Florida, as long as the retailer has the address(out of state) he shipped it too, he is not required to collect sales tax for out of state purchasers.

As Sip noted, ffl's in California are now required to charge California Sales Tax on guns shipped to them for transfer to an individual. Believe it or not this also includes charging tax on the shipping charge !!! Private Party Transfers are exempt though.

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A closed mouth gathers no foot

I agree, I just see it as a surcharge that they are charging me, that the store will retain. If I were actually at the store, buying it in person, then it would be a true sales tax that would be sent to the state of NM.

JP

I have purchased plenty of guns from out of state and I've never paid sales tax on either end.

I don't charge tax on transfers.
Flat $25 transfer fee.
Now if I order the weapon for a customer then yes I do charge tax.

I have not paid tax on a gun I purchased out-of-state and had shipped to me, but I have to pay tax on the transfer fee that I pay to my dealer ($1.75 tax on a $25 transfer fee - total $26.75).

No, he can not charge you his States sales tax unless he has a shop in your State.

As CigarGuy stated it is a hot topic. "Technically" here in Florida residents are supposed to "voluntary" pay FL sales tax for online purchases and just send it in on the honor system. Some of our Politicos have recently started trying to find a way to tax all internet sales in this State, putting the taxing system nightmare on the retailers.

They tried to do it on "services" many years back, like lawn care, pool care etc. That went over real well

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Still Running Against the Wind

I buy several out of state guns every year. My receiving FFL has never charged me sales tax on them, but just recently has begun requiring me to sign an acknowledgment that the State of California is entitled to Use Tax on the imported items and that the tax can be paid when I file my state income tax return.

But I think we are in the final days of what was characterized above as an "honor system." Amazon and California almost went to war over this last year, then agreed to stall the matter for a year or so while Congress works out an internet sales policy. There is just too much money at stake for the big-population states to forego tax revenue on the billions spent out of state.

As to an out of state dealer who wants you to pay sales tax on a gun before it even gets to your receiving FFL, cross him off your list.

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David Wilson

I just bought one from Osage Guns in Missouri and I did not pay tax on either end. In fact, on their website, there is a drop down box for your state that removes the tax. Unless, of course you live in Missouri.

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jj

Yes I have. Some of our local dealers collect it; if they don't, you're responsible for paying it yourself. Michigan has a line on their State income tax form that covers out of State purchases (including internet sales). I'm sure other States that have a sales tax do too.

We've had people that purchased cigarettes out of State and ended up paying thousands of dollars in State sales tax (our cig tax is $2 per pack). Private purchases, including garage sales and flea markets, are not exempt. Just because you don't get caught doesn't mean it isn't owed.

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"I also cook."

No. Never when ordering. Not even when receiving a gun.

But I did seal my fate as tax scofflaw back in the last century. All went well. I'd ordered a well described K22 from someplace up east. They shipped it to my local dealer after a bunch of confusion. Then I took the gun home and all was well. About 2 years later I got a letter from the Kentucky Revenue Cabinet. Its the state equivalent of the old wringers they had on washing machines. They simply announced I'd bought a gun out of state, failed to declare it on my income tax, and I owed tax on the gun. So I called and talked to a surprisingly nice girl who explained it all to me. I was a tax cheat. They figured that out by cross checking my income tax form against my SS # on the bound books at the local FFL. I'd bought a gun, didn't pay, so I had to pay now. The only really bad part, other than getting caught, was their valuation. They took the most current blue book value for a 100% gun, and thats the value.

They weren't interested in what I'd actually paid, they said they're not in the business of evaluating condition, or trusting other peoples sales slips. So I paid the tax on a $300 gun at the rate for a $600 gun. Thank God those idiots had never heard of a 2nd Model! But then the girl gave me the hot tip. There actually is a form on my state return to list out of state purchases. You get to pay your sales tax when you pay your income tax. The way they work it is if you list a value and pay sales tax on that value, they just accept it. If you don't list the gun and get caught, for you to argue it, you've got to take them to court. Good luck.

Unless its a grossly undervalued sale, you're better off just paying some minimum amount (the girl suggested using the blue book, but using the other end of the line from the 100% condition guns.) Its why I hate buying a gun with paperwork! Worse than paying the tax is putting the value where my wife can see it!

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Dick Burg

It comes down to taxation without representation. The state the item is being sold in determines the tax value which is ultimately determined by the voters within that particular state. You being in another state do not have voting rights in that state, hence you can't/shouldn't be taxed. You receive no benefits and you have no representation.

Use tax is a different story. Your state can place a use tax on purchases since you have voting rights within the state and receive benefits from the use tax.

How did the state of K-Y get authority to cross check the bound book of a federally liscensed gun dealer to determine sales tax???? By what authority does the state demand review of a confidential document the sole purpose of which is to comply with federal law regarding gun purchases in order to cross check SSN's for sales tax assessments??
Another issue-I do not think that the state can collect sales tax on private party transfers unless there is a registration requirement (ie automobiles, etc.). I can see collecting sales tax on purchased from one in the business, but as between two private individuals, at least in Louisiana you don't get to collect a sales tax.

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Forum consigliere

Actually, that happens all the time. You buy food while on vacation and pay tax on it. Doesn't get you a right to vote in that state.

I think people are missing the point. He has the item on sale on a forum/website. You are asking to go around that site. He has the item for sale in his store. He is allowing you to purchase through the store just the same as if you walked through the door. I can purchase a firearm in Idaho from a store but they have to ship to a Washington ffl. The point of purchase is "different" in that it is not the web but is in fact the state where the store is.

Living in Florida the LGS charged sales tax when I purchased a weapon "On Line" in another state and had it shipped to my LGS.
So far in Tennessee my LGS hasn't, just the FFL charge for receiving it.

I think you are missing the point. I bought a rifle , over the phone, from Cabelas in Sydney Nebraska. They shipped it to Florida. I did not pay Nebraska sales tax. If I had actually been in Sydney Nebraska I would have paid the tax. The "end user" of the sale was not in Nebraska, so Nebraska tax was not charged.

This gun was not on some website. It was in the store, and a friend of mine who was out there called me and told me about it.

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I always take precautions

Never, why?

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Sure you did

A fun little thing called a "Sales Tax Audit".

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Dick Burg

The state of Maryland was playing a very interesting game like this a couple of years ago. They said out-of-state buyers had to pay the MD tax unless they could show that they were a reseller in their own state or could prove they paid their sales and/or use tax in their home state. Apparently this was all kicked off by a neighbouring state having a high sales tax rate so folk were mail ordering all their furniture etc. over the border. The volume got high and MD got fed up with businesses having turnover $X which should result in $Y tax revenue but they only got $Z, where Z<<Y.

I got creamed by this on two guns I bought at an online estate auction out of MD. I paid up, not having the time and money for a court case or wishing to reveal to my home state how much I had bought from out-of-state and never paid a penny on. I also vowed never to pee on the state of MD if it was on fire. Oh, and I no longer buy guns from there, either.

I then looked into to how my state deals with "sales and use" taxes for goods bought out-of-state. I discovered that they appear to have no mechanism for you to do so except for cars. Go figure.

BearBio is partially correct. Where the sales occured is important. In the OP case, he would have to had traveled to that particular state and phyically purchase it on the seller's premise.

From Idaho State Tax Commision's site: "Idaho allows credit for sales tax correctly* paid to another state up to the amount you would owe in Idaho."

"*Some retailers mistakenly believe they should collect their state's sales tax when they ship or deliver items to locations outside of their state. If you see another state's tax on an invoice for items you bought over the Internet or through a mail-order catalog, don't pay the tax. If Idaho sales tax is not paid, you owe Idaho use tax. You owe another state's sales tax only if you pick up your items in that state."

The seller could have refused the sale but can't apply his state's sales tax if goes through with the sale.

I always have to pay Washington State use tax on an out of state firearm purchase. I've never been required to pay the shipping state's sales tax amount. I bought a 908 in person at a store in Twin Falls, Idaho and it was shipped to my FFL in Washington. Idaho guy did not try to charge me their tax. But I had to pay the Washington use tax when I picked it up.

Amazon has always charged sales tax on items shipped to Washington State because that's where the HQ is. They have a brick and mortar presence here. You can be ordering it from a beach in Jamaica but if it's shipped here, it'll get taxed.