I was musing today after going through the thread on Skeeter Skelton, that there just don't seem to be any modern gun writers that can hold a candle to the old timers. I'm talking style, wisdom, experience, honesty and accuracy in what they wrote.

In more or less chronological order, some of the old timers are:

Major Charles Askins, Sr.
Col. Townsend Whelen
W.H.B. Smith
E.C. Crossman
Phil Sharpe
Jack O'Connor
Elmer Keith
John Amber
Fred Datig
Major George Nonte
Bill Jordan
Col. Charles Askins, Jr.
Lt. Col. Jeff Cooper
Skeeter Skelton

I'm sure I've omitted a few from this list, but you get my drift. These guys talked from hard experience, and you could take what they wrote to the bank. In most cases, their wood still had the bark on it - their writings reflected honest fact and opinion, not trimmed, modified, watered down and smoothed out so as not to offend one of the magazine's big-money advertisers. They were not above writing just to stir things up (Charlie Askins, Jr. was notorious for this), but there was always authenticity behind their chuckles.

By and large, these were guys who had been there and done that, from the battlefields to the hunting fields, to the target lines. Their hands were not smooth but gnarled, and you could almost see, feel and smell in your mind the things they wrote about.

And they influenced us. From Skeeter's .44 specials to Cooper's .45 autos and Elmer's .44 maggies, we not only bought their logic, we bought their guns, loaded their loads, and packed their packs.

Who was the best of the best? I'll give you my opinion, and you may have yours.

I'll go with Jeff Cooper. He mixed experience, writing ability, historical knowledge, honesty, wisdom and class all in one package. In spite of his somewhat elitist approach to writing, he was actually a really down-to-earth guy. I treasure a letter he wrote to me when I sent him one of my early articles for critique. I think I've collected almost all of his books, and I remember reading a whole bunch of his articles in Guns & Ammo starting in the early '60s. He was one of the Real McCoys, but he had his faults. He could be a tad racist (along with Charlie Askins Jr.), and that poked through in his writings now and then. By the same token, he judged men by their actions. He hated political correctness, and was always quick to offer well-reasoned salty observations on the national scene. You couldn't help but want to applaud what he wrote. Much of it is still true today.

Once again, I don't think there is any modern writer who can measure up to the average stature of this bunch of guys. Agree or disagree?

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

You nailed it! You and I are about the same age and probley read much of the same stuff. One counter point. We have pretty much read it all. A new writer cant come up with new material on old guns and ammo that us old gun enthusiasts havent read multable times before. I seldom read a gun magazine anymore. Even here I am mostly in the lounge for entertainment more than the other gun sections.
It`s kind of like church. When I was a kid my folks took me to church about three times a week. Now when I hear a sermon I have heard it multable times before. Its pretty hard for a new writer to impress us.
Now, I will bet that there are some young guys out there that have actualy shot more rounds and tried out more guns than a lot of those old writers did. But the romance of reading about the early guys is hard to overcome.
Its something like trying to watch the newer young actors in western movies. Us older guys just cant seem to get into it because in our minds none can beat our old heros like JW etc. We tend to dismiss the newer set. To me, even kurt russell is a newbie kid, and he is a good one!

I have to agree, I have always enjoyed articles in the older publications more than the articles in the current ones. One person I would add to the list is Ken Waters. Not a "Gun" writer per se but still one of the best.

Sam

I'm sure I didn't cover all the bases in my list. I just thought of Dean Grinnell, who wrote for Gun World for years. A really competent guy whose reloading tips were great. I still remember and use his "finger trick" to load the shell holder when I'm using a single stage press. You bring a shell up to the shell holder, holding it between your thumb and forefinger. You remove the existing shell from the shellholder between your forefinger and your middle finger (sometimes use to signal another's IQ), and slip the new shell in with your thumb. Saves a lot of time by cutting such motions in half. Experience counts.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

I agree also, John. All excellent writers; each with their own style, their own favorites, and their own foibles. The one thing that they all shared was an ego of monumental size! Of course, that was a big factor in their success.

Bob

I am agreement but I would add Col Rex Applegate to that list.

Dean Grinnell had a way with words to be both informative and entertaining ! One of the best in my book!

I agree with you completely, but I have to wonder if the Capt. Charles Nonte was the same one that I remember as Major George C. Nonte. he was one of the best of the old school gun writers before he died from a heart attack back around 1978 at age 52. I have several of his books and would sell my soul before I parted with any of them.

He didn't get into the one true gun thing and wrote about all of them but you could tell that he had a great love for the S&W M-39. he was widely known for his waxed mustache. Speaking of that famous mustache; I recall one of the other writers of the day; telling about the time they were all giving the new Hydro-Coil shotgun stock a try and George got one prong of his mustache caught in the stock which resulted in him being forced to amputate one of his handlebars. The good Maj. wasn't seen in public for several months after that. I feel his pain as I had the folding stock on my M-10 SMG take a bite out of some of my beautiful facial hair one time

I agree with all that's been said here. When those old guys wrote about a gun or a cartridge, I always had the feeling they had been working with it months or even years before they sat down at their Underwood's. The current bunch seem to shoot two boxes of ammo at the local range and then proceed tell all the world about it. Like most of you, I'll pass.

Ed

Who is Ken Waters???

Yep, one and the same. I messed up his first name and failed to promote him - many of his writings were when he was an Army captain. I actually met him at the 1970 World Shooting Championships in Phoenix, along with Bill Jordan, who was an NRA rep at the time. I wrote too fast without proofreading! I'll amend the OP. Thanks!

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

While I have to admit that I have not read much of these writers (I was usually too busy reading Heinlein), I loved Jeff Cooper's writing. I didn't always agree with him and sometimes he just plain aggravated me. But I still remember something he wrote that is one of my favorite quotes regarding gun safety. He said, "Put not your faith in mechanical safeties. They will fail, often with disastrous results and it tends to scare the horses."

CW

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μολὼν λαβέ

Elmer is my writer....

Agreed.

I'd add John T. Amber to the list.

For you youngsters I corresponded with Elmer from the time I was a kid...when I bought a 5 screw 44 in 11957. I saved all coreespondence. With the name of C Sharps he was quick to remember me. Visited numerous times and have all of his books autographed.
Regards C Sharps

plus 1 for Mr. Keith

I have become so disappointed with what the American Rifleman has to offer today as opposed to 20 years ago, that I wrote them and suggested they just rerun some of those old articles about collectible guns. I'm still waiting for a reply.

I have The Gun Digest Book Of 9mm Handguns on my bookshelf.
One of the authors is Dean Grennell.
Started me wondering if I'd remembered wrong when you wrote his name with a i.

I read all of them years ago and re-read them from time to time.
Skeeter was a favorite and I also liked Jack Lewis.
I read Keith and O'Connor and liked Jack a bit more than Elmer.

The current crop of writers aren't worthy to carry the boots of almost everyone of those on John's list. Thanks John for trying to keep things in perspective.

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Dick

Skeeter was always my favorite although I like all those on the list. Todays writers just can't compare to some of those old "masters". I worked up a lot of the loads Skeeter wrote about in "Shooting Times" some of which are down right scary by todays loading manuals but my old Ruger 3 screw still shoots them with no problem (just not as often).

I thought Askins jr was an interesting character - read his autobiography. Understand he was quite controversial. Read some articles of his in Guns magazine which struck me as a bit liberal, he seemed to have admiration for things like shooting tests that hunters have to pass in Scandinavia and Europe and he was scornful of some American hunters' standards of markmanship.

Ken Waters was a certainly a gun writer; much of his stuff was handloading-related (See the "Pet Loads" book from Wolfe Pub.) He wrote for HANDLOADER magazine for more than thirty years. Some of the guys on the original list at the beginning of this thread were merely storytellers. Some folks like that, but one didn't always learn from what they wrote.

John Taffin does a good job with his articles and pays homage to some of the writers in the OP's list.
Mas Ayoob has been a favorite of mine too.

Not much to choose from today if you take away all the sun glass wearin', ex- "operators" (I hate that word) that all wear the same tactical pants.

Most write about whatever's newest and coolest. I'm not interested because I'm neither.

GF

I stand corrected - he passed away a number of years ago, and my memory was hazy on the spelling. He was a good one, for sure.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

I also read Unrepentant Sinner. Askins was in many respects a soldier of fortune, and he frankly didn't give a damn what anyone else thought. Few know that he was a national pistol champion, even inventing a special chambering and cartridge that enabled him to shoot centerfire with the aplomb of a .22 rimfire. The powers that be subsequently outlawed its use in competition. He was definitely not a saint; some of the things he did in life were, well, of questionable moral turpitude. Still, he was interesting to read. His book was quite well named.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Paladin, thanks for bringing this subject up. One of the things I've collected over the years were old sporting magazines, focusing on those prior to WWII. My general interest when buying them dealt with canoe, or canoeing related stories or ad's.

The history of quite a few smaller canoe companies are shrouded in mystery and a magazine ad was a good way to dial in the fact that they were at least in business at that particular time. There were many a seller on eBay that would look through the old mag's they had listed for me looking to see if any canoe ad's were in there.

One night I'll have to rummage around and find my stacks of vintage magazines just to see what I can find in them that's gun related. Articles & ad's that I never paid much attention to at the time.

The problem with today's gunwriters is that they are always being compared to the Greats of the Past. Charlie Askins Jr. was as close as we'll get to a genuine Old West gunfighter, Elmer Keith came of age when the Frontier was still very real, the others had a combination of life experiences-military service, law enforcement, etc. that today seems much harder to acquire and many grew up in an era when being a "gun nut" was the mark of an enthusiast and was part of the general culture.
I recall an article by Skeeter Skelton in which he matter of factly talks of hunting without bothering with licenses or observing game laws, as he put it "If that sound unethical, let me remind you that store bought meat was a seldom thing during the Depression." How many of us have experinced that?
An analogy I use is with cookbooks. When one of my girlfriends kidded me about using 1940s and 50 vintage cookbooks I told her look through mine, then look through the new ones-other than using a microwave, what difference is there?

Cooper, in particular, was entertainingly pithy. Here are some typical quotes:

"The answer is usually simple. Accepting the question is difficult."

"Since lawsuits are all the rage, we hear rumblings about the matter of the firing-pin-block in the Series 80 Colt. It has been suggested that anyone who removes this questionable device from the pistol may be risking litigation. If so, a counter-suit would seem proper. The firing-pin-block, with wear, can prevent firing of the weapon. If the owner of a Series 80 hears a click when he hopes for a bang, and dies as a result of return-fire, he ought to be able to sue posthumously."

One need not wonder what he would have thought about the ugly hole on the side of many S&W revolvers...

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Well John, you gave me something to think about that will bug me until I do it. I have a stack of old mag's that are segregated from the others due to a musty odor so I went there and took the first one off of that stack, Hunting & Fishing from June of 1946.

I then started flippin' through the pages and came across this, right next to an article about the Japanese "Baby" Nambu 7mm Officer's Model Pistol.



I have already gone through all of my magazines once and scanned every wooden boat & canoe related ad & article and have discs of that material hangin' around.

From the looks of it I'll have discs of gun related articles & ad's when I eventually get around to the stacks of mags I have stashed around here.

Your list of authors, as well as those mentioned by others will certainly be on my mind as I start my time consuming journey. In the past mag's would come in as small lots or one at a time so it seemed like a much less daunting task than it does now.

Thanks again, I think......

When I first got into firearms I thought the gun writers were almost god-like. Then as I started to learn more about guns, and the gun writers, I realized not everything they wrote was all that profound, or true. There are some names on that list that I still highly value their opinions on, and there are a few that I place right along with the current crop of writers. I guess it had to start somewhere.

I've never read Unrepentant Sinner, but it is on my short list. Other books that Charles Askins Jr. wrote are not only informative they are entertaining as well. I've heard people claim he was nothing but a cold blooded killer, which I've heard was started by another name on the list, but to me that doesn't matter if he has the information I'm looking for. Which might explain why I enjoyed John Wesley Hardins' autobiography so much. And if Verne Miller had authored a book, I'd have a copy of it too.

Notice the large ejector knob?

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Dick Burg

Would you still say that if you knew he quoted me in one of his articles?

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Dick Burg

When I was a pre-teen boy I inherited my grandfather's .38/40 SAA. I knew little about it but I did read Outdoor Life religiously. I wrote a note to Jack O'Connor and soon a young boy was thrilled beyond words to get a letter from O'Connor telling me that my 1st Gen. Colt was an early smokeless powder model and much more of it's history. From that point on, I rarely missed any of his writings.

As I look at my library right now, I see these tomes from him: 1)The Hunting Rifle, 2)The Rifle Book, 3)The Shotgun Book, 4)The Complete Book of Shooting, 5)The Complete Book of Rifles and Shotguns, 6)Horse and Buggy West, 7)Jack O'Connor's Big Game Hunts, and 8)The Art of Big Game Hunting

Although I read and enjoyed all of the other writers listed, I can think of no other single one that had a stronger impact on my growth in woodcraft and love of the hunt. His tales of hunts with his life partner and hunting buddy, Eleanor, helped me set my goals to find a wife who shared my love of the outdoors...I was successful beyond my wildest dreams.

Thanks for that TOO, Jack!

Bob

Does no one else consider Brian Pearce to be a very good writer with oodles of field experience? I respect him considerably. He appears in, "Handloader" and in, "Rifle."

And a pretty good case could be made for Sheriff Jim Wilson as a sort of latter-day Skeeter.

Col. Rex Appplegate didn't write much in gun magazines, but his book, "Kill or Get Killed" is a classic. This guy was the primary trainer for OSS agents, later CIA.

I only met Applegate once. Had lunch with him and a couple of other guys at a Ruger function for the press during a NRA convention. It was Ruger's 30th Anniversary, and they put on a pretty good feed for the gun media. Rex was modest, and amused when I told him that I had my dad's 1944 edition of his book. He laughed and said, "Well, I was certainly thinner in the photos then."

I never met Jack O'Connor, but corresponded for years. He was a bit of an elitist, like Cooper, but if you wrote to him on decent stationery and could spell, he was nicer than I've heard he could be to those whom he considered to be unwashed rednecks. I used to write for an editor who knew Jack in person, and he said that Jack was a little uppity and gruff. I know he was in a college fraternity, so that doesn't surprise me, given my limited experience with frat rats. He was also a college professor, which accounts for some of his attitude, I think. But his wisdom, not limited to the .270, was impressive. He wasn't too heavily into handguns, and didn't know much about Bianchi and Safariland when I asked. Referred me to Lawrence, with whose products he was comfortable. Jack had a droll, witty style that I liked a lot. He died in 1978, I believe, on an ocean cruise with his beloved wife, who was often featured in his hunts.

No one has mentioned John Wootters. That's spelled like I did it, although I've seen numerous misspellings of his last name. I don't know if he was really a gun writer or more of a hunting writer. He certainly did write about guns, though, and Bill Jordan once told me that John was a true wordsmith, whereas he, Bill, was just a shooter who wrote. Jordan was being excessively modest, but Wootters was as skilled with the written word as he was with a camera, and he was a superb photographer, of animals as well as of guns and terrain. I believe he's still living, but he retired about the time that Bob Petersen died. (Wootters wrote mainly for Petersen's in his later career.)

John's books, especially, "Hunting Trophy Whitetails" are well worth seeking out.

Let's not forget Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting by Ed McGivern. Not sure if he was a prolific writer but a classic.

Prolific, not necessarily; classic, most certainly; one of the most laboriously tedious reads you are likely to find, you bet.

Bob

PALADIN,
Thank you for this tread, and I want to add one more writer from this era. Peter Capstick -(I think I have it right) he wrote an article about the great white hunter in the backyard with an air rifle that thought was amazing.

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I am a sheep dog!
1601 (ret)

I have always enjoyed reading Elmer Keith. It seemed to me that he preferred big heavy bullets and that has always worked for me. I still go back and read his writings. Larry

I think most modern gun writer's need to wear Nascar type uniforms. That why we know who owns them.
Guy22

The writer that I really miss is the late Finn Aagaard. He was the field editor for the AR. His stories of growing up in East Africa and guiding as a professional hunter in Africa were always great.

I grew up reading Townsend Whelen, Jack O'Conner and ol' Elmer. Finn's hunting stories also rang true.
Ken

Thanks, Paladin. those were great gun writiers on the original list. I'll read anything I see their name on. One person who should be added was Gen. Julian Hatcher. His 'Notebook" is still full of interest today, and he wrote the best (almost the only) book on the Garand.

When I was 15 my mother asked me what I wanted for Christmas. I was a little old for lists to Santa, but I told her I wanted a book (for a 15 year old, its a sure hit with a mother.) She told me to write it down, so I did.

It was "On Your Own in the Wilderness" by Col Townsend Whelen. She had no idea how to find that back in the early 60s. So I got socks and underwear, maybe a few pairs of white Levi's. I wasn't surprised, and my father asked what I'd wanted, so I told him. He gave my mom kind of a disgusted look. He just figured she didn't buy it because it might have a tenuous connection to guns, something she hated. But Christmas isn't the time for anger or reciminations. So the subject dropped. About a month later was my birthday. Mom probably bought me more underwear and socks, surely nothing a 16 YO would want. But just like in the Christmas Story, my dad asked if I'd gotten everything I wanted. Given my outlook then and now, I probably laughed and said I didn't get anything I wanted.

Then he pointed to the bookcase. Sure enough, there was the book I'd wanted to read. I've still got it, too. But I don't know where. Guess I need to start looking. I can find a place for it up here in the living room.

Whoops it was co-authored by Bradford Anglier

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Dick Burg

I came across Cooper's book "Fighting Handguns" in 1959 in high school, and practically memorized it. Got it hardbound ( so it wouldn't fall apart) and it was my bible for things pistolwise. At some point later I sent him the book to autograph, which he did, noting "I was much younger then!"

He was a bit of a renaissance man, an excellent writer, and worth reading whether or not you agreed with him.

I grew up reading that book and Keith's "Sixguns", both of which are essentials. I also still have my "On Your Own In The Wilderness".

Which probably explains why I like 1911s, single actions, and have been above the Arctic Circle a couple of times.

Those old guys were something else.

Count me in as one that consider these two guys worthwhile reading most of the time along with Taffin. I wasn't around to read the true early writers mentioned previously.

I also remember reading alot that Bob Milek authored....

http://archives.gunsandammo.com/cont...nge-sixgunning

Now I must get back to reading my copy of "Hell, I was THERE!"



IC

Ditto on most posts so far. I'm partial to my hardback, "Hell, I was there....". I like Ken Waters and I'm a fan of Brian Pearce also. Pearce is a "new" guy.......LOL

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Go big or stay home

This one is tough since I have written a few articles here and there. I can tell you that I would never compare myself to the likes of Elmer and Skeeter (both two of my heroes in a way). Especially if you read the hard time Elmer had as a kid recovering from the fire that nearly killed him and the life he had as not only a cowboy, but a guide and just an all out tough working man. It was the way of that entire generation, I often wonder how many other hunters and shooters would have been well known if they had written down their adventures. I've got alot of old books from all of the early writers, Elmer, Skeeter, Cooper, and from some that are pretty obscure like William Reichenbach, Paul Curtis and a few more. I have lots of old magazines from everything like Fur-Fish-Game, American Rifleman back into the 30's, Hunter Trader Trapper and more. There were lots of really good writers that I have never heard of before that I wish would have gotten more ink. I will agree that it seems like the magazines now are pretty much advertisements, I only get a couple now, Handloader and Fur-Fish-Game. I still write alot, but its mostly for online gun magazines because I can write more in a month than a used to in a year. I'm still learning myself in this game, I know I like to shoot, and I like to write about what I have learned, right or wrong. I have never reviewed a new gun though and am really not interested since I prefer the old stuff anyways. I really don't think there will ever be another Elmer or Skeeter, mainly because times are not the same. We can't just travel around like the old days to hunt elk and moose, these in some places are now once in a lifetime hunts. Africa is for the most part a rich man's game. I can't speak for some of the other guys, but I write about what I know and what I have learned, even if it is alot less than some of the other guys out there, but hey I hope I have a long way to go and there is plenty of lead still to be cast and spent! In my younger days I was kind of like Indiana Jones and sought fortune and glory, now I am just hoping to have gas money and can catch a nap once in a while.

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Vaya con Dios

What I liked about the old writers (Milek, Whelen, Skeeter, Jordan, etc.) is that their articles didn't sound like PR pieces for gun, and accessory manufacturers like today's gun writer's seem to sound like.

About the only gun writers I like to read now are Taffin and Ayoob; the rest seem to only toot their own horns or whoever's sent them something to write about.

The list is a good one ,I miss the late Bob Milek too.

Sure, I'd still like him.

But he probably needs widen his circle of "experts" to quote for articles.

I bet it was about those old 357 magnums that only the rich & famous can afford!

GF

He did; he quoted me in the same article as Rburg. OOPS, I guess that proves your point