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01-26-2012, 12:28 PM
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40 S&W for bear
A few days ago I was at Shooter's drinking coffee and the conversation turned to self defense against animals. I told them I normally carry a .357 magnum while hiking some times a revolver in .45 Colt. One retired LEO stated he carried his Glock 23 to protect himself against bears in northern Wisconsin.
That brought up a flurry of laughter and chides about how he would taste, and so on. But after thinking about it most handgun calibers probably aren't enough to really stop a large bear but a .40 S&W would be better than a pointy stick or pepper spray.
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01-26-2012, 12:38 PM
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I believe a man killed a bear with a glock 22 that got into his house in Alaska. Don't remember the details. Some of the specialty loaders have a heavy for caliber hardcast load.
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01-26-2012, 12:41 PM
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Annnnnnd we are off! Been a while since a good bear thread graced the page!
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01-26-2012, 12:43 PM
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I have seen what the R-P Fed-Spec 155 JHP does to whitetail deer .... the tissue distruction is beyond impressive. I would think that a cool head and good shot would be okay with this load if faced with an agressive eastern black bear of 2-300 pounds... other loads? I don't know....
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01-26-2012, 12:45 PM
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The 40S&W Ctg. has some 500+ ft/lb loads on the market. I'd think they'd be more then enough for Black Bear at reasonable ranges. As for a big Brown or a Polar Bear, I think I'd want a bit more gun, thank you very much,LOL.
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01-26-2012, 01:06 PM
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Yessssssssss! A bear thread
40? Sure - But then again there are bears and BEARS .
I've seen deer killed DRT with a .22LR but it sure doesn't make it a good deer rifle round.
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01-26-2012, 01:13 PM
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Okay, living, hunting, hiking, fishing, camping, etc in Alaska for the last 23 years I can honestly tell you that not even a high power rifle or shotgun are going to assure you that you kill the bear before he kills you. With that said, any gun is better then your hands, a stick, or a rock. Believe it or not, pepper spray is often better then a gun.
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01-26-2012, 01:22 PM
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Not long ago on here a fellow told how him and his brother in law were walking in the woods when huge brown bear attack them and he took care of things with one shot from a 22 pistol.
One shot to his brother in laws knee and he just walked out.
That is a great story and I just smirk thinking about it.
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01-26-2012, 01:28 PM
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OK! My turn- flamethrower with a Bowie Knife for backup.
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01-26-2012, 03:16 PM
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Yay! Bear thread!
I used to work on an Indian reservation in northern Montana where bears were more than just theoretical. We were adjacent to Glacier park, so there were park bears wandering out, and there were naturally occurring bears of both the black and grizzly variety.
The Indians were funny about bears. They were crazy about hunting elk, moose, and deer, but I don't know any who hunted bears (though I'm sure some did.). I asked one of my Blackfeet pals why this was. His reply was a two-parter: Bears don't eat Indians, and a skinned bear looked like a person.
I did know guys who had killed grizzlies that were attacking their dogs in their yard. In both cases, the big bears were felled by barrages of .223 fire, administered by either the ubiquitous Mini-14 or the almost equally popular Remington 788.
I've never shot a bear (though I've tried) but I think a face full of .40 S&W would do the trick.
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01-26-2012, 03:38 PM
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Well I's want on the front page on this'n...My dad had this friend that was an ol' sourdough
that claimed he'd kilt a black bear with a .22LR. Shot right through the eye.
Don't know if it was true or not...As a kid I didn't care, he had the hide.
I wouldn't personally choose the 40 short & weak.
But, thats just me talkin here.
Oh, I've killed a couple of bears and have had a run in or two with a few more.
Su Amigo,
Dave
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01-26-2012, 04:45 PM
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So what have we learned here over the years about bears and bullets? Seems some guy did one in with a .45acp, another with a 10mm, some have certainly been felled with a 5.56, a few with .38spl, I'm guessing one or two fell to 9mm, though haven't heard much from the .380 crowd, everyone knows at least one story about .22mag or .22lr. And heaven knows its on the border of torture to haul around those .357, .44, and .45LC cannons when a whee little .22 has been PROVEN to do the job. So why not opt for a little upgrade for safety's sake, drop that venerable .25auto Raven in your pocket and head off to the wilderness with a 12" survival knife lashed to your thigh and play outdoorsman all you want...
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01-26-2012, 07:03 PM
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I hunt bear with my compound bow when I'm fortunate enough to draw a harvest permit. I also carry a 40 M&P for backup if I need it....after all I'm sitting by the bait a mere 25ft away. I feel more than confident that my 40 S&W will save my life if it needs to. I hope to draw that tag this year.
spricks
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01-26-2012, 07:20 PM
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COOL! I made it on the front page of a bear thread!!!
As your wondering around in the woods with your Jennings,
Don't forget the spoon as the ultimate bear weapon. (although special training is required)
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01-26-2012, 07:23 PM
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Backpacker killed a grizzly in Denali with a 45 acp. Eskimos kill polar bears with 219 Zippers & other 22 centerfires all the time (where they get the ammo, I don't know).
I recently started shooting a 40 S & W and I'm impressed. It should work for black bears==now, grizzlies are something different.
In 1989, I was elk hunting in NW Montana. They had just found some grizzly droppings; first in quite a while. I asked the bio what he found in the droppings. His answer: "Black bear claws"
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01-26-2012, 08:42 PM
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I personally carry a 3” 629 in bear country
I think if all I had was a 40 I would stock it with 175gr cast and empty it in the bad bear as fast as I could.
Seems like a 40 would get 14-16 inches deep or hopefully more. I’m probably wrong again but I would rather have the 40 than pepper spray, although when the 40 goes click it would be nice to have the spray.
Ya gotta have pictures in a bear thread...
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01-26-2012, 08:46 PM
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I think I would try and coax the bear to crawl through a guillotine to get me!
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01-26-2012, 11:23 PM
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This brings up the old tale of I only have to outrun you. I would think a fmj or two or three to the head would be a start. Many of the old stories in Outdoorlife and Sports Afield were about the guys who were mauled after shooting a bear in the head with a rifle only to have the bear revive. Most times the catchline was that the bullet had flattened out and slid over the bears skull. I think penetration would be my determining factor. No lite HPs for me.
I might mention that I do have one pistol I would carry as a bear gun; a 14" T/C Contender in 45/70 that I love to shoot 500 gr bullets through.
Larry
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01-26-2012, 11:41 PM
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Seriously:
If you're around bears a lot then maybe they aren't a really big deal to you - After all, they do tend to just move along and go about their business most of the time.
BUT
The first time you run into a Grizzly Bear miles and miles and miles from the nearest ambulance it's a BAD feeling! A 454 Casull feels like a kid's toy all of a sudden....
Being on the ground with a bear just isn't the same as seeing one from your tree stand.
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01-27-2012, 12:33 AM
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As much as I like the .40 it certainly wouldn't be high on my list for bear. If that's all I had it would be loaded up with 180 grain FMJ.
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01-27-2012, 02:38 AM
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The best part is...
Someone found a way to mix caliber debate and BEARS.
Good one.
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01-27-2012, 03:35 AM
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I like to hunt grizz with my .17 less hide damage to repair.
chuck
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01-27-2012, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chud333
I like to hunt grizz with my .17 less hide damage to repair.
chuck
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Sir, I believe there would be a great deal hide damage to repair, just not on the bear.
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01-27-2012, 10:02 AM
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There is absolutely no question that the 40 SW is sufficient.
Simply shoot your companion in the knee and run like hell.
If you are hiking by yourself in bear country well that's just your fault.
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01-27-2012, 10:22 AM
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A truly large and mean looking polar/grizzly hybrid was killed in Alaska a few years ago. It was killed with a full auto early M16 variant.
Anyway, Doubletap makes a wood's load for many calibers, and I think the .40 SW is among their offerings.
The 10mm Glocks see a lot of use as an outdoors gun that doubles as protection for animals and people.
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01-28-2012, 03:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hannstv
Sir, I believe there would be a great deal hide damage to repair, just not on the bear.
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Ain't that the truth. In reality it will be a cold day in,
well you know, before i go after a grizz with ANY handgun.
hahaha
chuck
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01-28-2012, 09:55 AM
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Kind of like bow hunting for bear... Those guys have much bigger cojones than I came equipped with! And I have no problem admitting that!
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02-02-2012, 03:16 PM
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A .40 would be better than nothing, and at the least...it would alert other, hopefully more prepared folks, to the area where the mauling's taking place....although perhaps a flare gun would work better.
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02-02-2012, 03:38 PM
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A handgun of any caliber is sufficent for bears if it gives you time to call in an air strike!
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06-28-2013, 01:58 PM
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40 S&W M&P with 175g holo
I need to know if the 40cal will put down the bear if he is few feet from the tent. let's say I was sleeping and suddenly I hear noise and as I look out the bear is few feet away let's say around 5 to 15ft.
and if he is less than 5 feet away let's say he is scratching the tent and let's say I have to time to pull the trigger 2 or 3 times him being right in front.
I ma not going hunting but I have food and I am going for a long hike.
oh by the way, does the laser help ur aim in anyway or it is just for the look? I mean does it help to be quicker at aiming or ill probably be too distracted by the bear to even see the red dot?
I shoot with many guys but I don't hunt so I don't know if this will stop a bear.
I personally will not put my life over a pepper spray because as I spray him I might as well spray myself if it is windy. so it is really not helpful. I want to have a gun that I know will do the job.
currently I am using a 40cal s&w m&p. 165g target full metal jack. but I am sure I will probably get hollow points. or if u have a better advice please let me know.
my next weapon is going to be the 500 S&W the big boy's toy! looool
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06-28-2013, 02:07 PM
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Zombie thread.
IMHO, the .40 is light for something as dangerous as a bear. It would be better than nothing. I believe if I were confronted by a bear I would consider shooting into the ground at least once. The most dangerous bear has her cubs with her, normally they are not that aggressive.
Regarding a laser, again IMO they are good for a quick aim under less than ideal conditions. At the range you will always shoot better with the sights. You can aim it like you aim a flashlight. You could look around the left side of a tree and hold your shooting hand around the right side. I do not have any laser equipped guns and when I see them at the range the laser is jumping all over the place.
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06-28-2013, 02:21 PM
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and bear scat has little bells in it and smells like pepper spray. pa da bump bump.
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06-28-2013, 02:35 PM
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When I run into a bear on the trail, I apologize in as many different languages that I can. Hopefully, he'll understand one of them.
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06-28-2013, 03:22 PM
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Given the right circumstances, I'd bet you could kill anything with anything.....
Don't think a .40 would be my first choice there, and I've owned and shot a bunch of them. I would recommend, if you make the decision to carry it, you file the front sight off.....makes it a bit more comfortable when the bear decides to "re-holster" it for ya......
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06-28-2013, 03:25 PM
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Take a girlfriend. I hear their tasty. Hope the bear hears this too.
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06-28-2013, 04:09 PM
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I'm a big fan of 40SW, & have four pistols in that caliber. That being said, in my "vast" arsenal, if I were confronted by a large carnivore, I think I would have the most faith in my 686-2. A 40 might just tick the bear off. Or my 4516-1 or 4513TSW, hopefully loaded with some BA self defense loads. I know nothing about hunting, so please correct me if needed!
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06-28-2013, 04:17 PM
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My feeling are- forget the pistol. I have a Browning BAR in 338 win mag that will be my go to gun for bear. The pistol is to put yourself out of misery while the bear is coming for you. But if you must carry a pistol, my advise is very simple. Do not be a tightwad. How much is your life worth? Buy the biggest gun you can afford and shoot accurately. Pretty simple really. BTW- this was my first bear thread comment! Yay!!
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06-28-2013, 05:15 PM
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40 S&W for a bear...yep he can probably carry that pretty easy with a IWB holster!
As long as I can run faster than you and have a ...bigger gun...it doesn't matter what the bear is packin!!
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06-28-2013, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fouad
I need to know if the 40cal will put down the bear if he is few feet from the tent. let's say I was sleeping and suddenly I hear noise and as I look out the bear is few feet away let's say around 5 to 15ft.
and if he is less than 5 feet away let's say he is scratching the tent and let's say I have to time to pull the trigger 2 or 3 times him being right in front.
I ma not going hunting but I have food and I am going for a long hike.
oh by the way, does the laser help ur aim in anyway or it is just for the look? I mean does it help to be quicker at aiming or ill probably be too distracted by the bear to even see the red dot?
I shoot with many guys but I don't hunt so I don't know if this will stop a bear.
I personally will not put my life over a pepper spray because as I spray him I might as well spray myself if it is windy. so it is really not helpful. I want to have a gun that I know will do the job.
currently I am using a 40cal s&w m&p. 165g target full metal jack. but I am sure I will probably get hollow points. or if u have a better advice please let me know.
my next weapon is going to be the 500 S&W the big boy's toy! looool
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If the bear is 5-15 feet away, hungry plus you just woke up--forget the .40 caliber and utter a fast, short prayer--your tomorrow's bear poop !
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06-28-2013, 07:28 PM
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Having lived in bear country for 30 years, I've heard all sorts of stories, have had bear confrontations, and have had them walking down my road. They've come into my deer camp. I've bumped into them while packing in the hills with the pack string. I've surprised them while walking back to my tent. Most of the time, they try to avoid us as much as we try to avoid them.
Sure, I've heard of bears killed with a .22 magnum. A guy was treed by a grizzly, and the bear stood up on its hind legs and started shaking the tree. He had hold of the guy's foot. The fellow reached down with a .22 magnum handgun and popped the bear in the eye. Yeah, it killed the bear, but I sure as heck wouldn't want to be in a situation like that where I had to depend on a .22.
I've also heard of a guy who killed a black bear with an axe. Again...I don't want to have to depend on that form of defense against our furried friend, ursa.
When I'm guiding my pack string where black bears are prominent, the smallest caliber I pack is a .45 Colt loaded with 260-grain jacketed hollow points traveling at 1400 fps. Remember, I'm talking black bears here...not grizzlies.
When push comes to shove, I prefer to pack a lever action rifle, again in .45 Colt carrying the same load. But, sometimes that isn't possible, so I have to rely on a handgun.
I guess everybody has his own opinion on the subject. If not, we wouldn't be revisiting the topic a couple times every year. That being said, you pack what you're comfortable with...but I think I'd rather pack a little more on the heavy side than on the lighter side when it comes to calibers.
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06-28-2013, 07:37 PM
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When it comes to bears of any size. Bigger is better. The bigger the bullet, the higher your chances of survival. I used to live in far northern Maine. I've seen moose taken with a .22lr. I've seen blackies dropped with a .22 as well......
Smallest caliber i will carry is 9mm with some gold dots, and a lot of them. 15+rnd mags......and at least 2 spares. and that is cutting it close.
Now that's blackies, bears that run 300lbs around here MAX.
If were talking browns, grizzlies, kodiaks or the mammoth polars.......44mag min. Preferably a .454 or a .500.....1oz bonded slugs are desired as well :-D
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06-28-2013, 07:41 PM
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OH GOODY A BEAR THREAD!!!
Something is better than nothing, but odds are that a 40 S&W will be found somewhere in the vicinity of either your carcass OR your carcass and the bear carcass.
It would be best to leave Mr. Bear and especially Mrs. Bear w/ cubs well alone. Whatever you do...don't turn your back or run.
Can we move on to zombies now?
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06-28-2013, 08:36 PM
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Isn't there an old saying that goes like this: 'Never bring a pistol to a bear fight'?
Or somethin' like that....
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06-28-2013, 08:49 PM
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Now that another bear thread has been started, I can ask this question.
I don't hunt or go hiking or camping. I am asking just to get some knowledge of the stopping power of come calibers.
Out of Just the following calibers, which would be the most effictive against a bear, and in which order would you list them?
45 Colt, 45 ACP, 10MM, 44 Magnum, 357 Magnum.
Thanks.
Stu
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06-28-2013, 08:55 PM
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Oboy!!! A beer thread!!
Wait, this is a BEAR thread.
As far as I'm concerned, a 30/30, 30.06, 300 WinMag, .44 lever or .45 Colt lever wouldn't be enough gun for me. I'd want bigger because bears get mad when you shoot them.
If I have to shoot a bear, I want him dead.... Not mad.
I'm thinking more like L.A.W's or Claymores here...
.
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06-28-2013, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaykellogg
Zombie thread.
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Good one!
For zombie bears I'm going to bump up to 10mm handloads. But should I go for an ultra fast 135gr or a 200gr XTP??? How much penetration does one need on a zombie bear? Does it make any difference what color the original bear was???
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06-28-2013, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu1205
.44 mag, .45 Colt, .357 mag, 10 mm, .45 acp
Thanks.
Stu
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Just my opinion.
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James L. "Jim" Rhiner
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06-28-2013, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu1205
which would be the most effictive against a bear, and in which order would you list them?
Thanks.
Stu
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12 gauge slugs, .45-70, .375 H&H, .338 Winmag.......
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06-28-2013, 11:57 PM
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I think I'll sit this one out. Too tired of repeating myself. I ought to make up a standard post, copy it, and post in these frequent bear threads.
Yes, you CAN kill a bear with most service style handguns and sensible loads and proper placement. If I had to carry one of my curent handguns in bear country, It'd be a .357 with a stash of Remington's 165 grain hunting loads. These are structured for game shooting; aren't just a slightly heavier 158 grain load.
But if I had a M-629 with six-inch barrel, I'd carry that. Got a Safariland M-29 holster, green elk-lined, basketweave, for when I get such a gun. Used to have a M-29, but want stainless next time I go the .44 Magnum route.
A famous Alaska bear guide and his daughter carry Ruger .357's. That's for emergency sidearms of course; I'm sure they have rifles, too. He wrote that a .357 in the right place is enough and puts his life on the line with one.
BTW, the black bear used to be called Euarctos americana. Is it now classed among the Ursid bears? Bear Bio? My reference books still give the older name.
Jim Corbett once killed a sloth bear with an axe borrowed from an Indian native. The moral here is, don't shoot game to feed viilagers when you carry just five rounds of ammo for your rifle. I never understood why he'd do that. I'd take at least 20 rounds if I was out hiking the foothills of the Himalayas after man-eating cats.
Now, Corbett said that this five-round thing was the result of some superstition that he had. He also wrote that he thought that he wouldn't have a successful hunt for man-eaters until he'd killed a snake.
So, he once chucked a rock at a hymadryad! (King Cobra, Ophiophagus hannah.)
The Indians thought that he was a holy man, a sadhu. He must have been, or just been granted some serious miracles. He stoned that attacking snake to death before it tagged him. It was NOT happy after the first rock he threw hit it!
That's my bear contribution this time. And I mentioned a king cobra, opening the door for this week's snake thread...
Last edited by Texas Star; 06-29-2013 at 12:25 AM.
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06-29-2013, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Star
That's my bear contribution this time. And I mentioned a king cobra, opening the door for this week's snake thread...
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But you didn't mention Bigfoot! Wait! I did it!
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James L. "Jim" Rhiner
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223, 22lr, 357 magnum, 380, 38spl, 45acp, 629, backpacker, casull, colt, glock, m16, model 16, outdoorsman, remington, s&w |
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