I was at the station filing a report with the Chief of Police. I noticed the .45 in his holster and asked if it was a Kimber. He stated that it was a Springfield Armory tactical. He stated that he had always carried .45's. He is a giant of a man physically, so I can see why. This particular weapon had 5k-6k rounds through it with no malfunctions.

I asked who determinded what could be carried and if a particular caliber were specified. He stated that the Chief (in this case him) made that call. He said that 9mm, .38, .357 mag, .40 and .45 were approved. I was surprised that revolvers would be approved. He stated that he was fine with revolvers as long as the officer could qualify with it and meet the time requirements. He said that it would be a little tougher for someone with a revolver to qualify because the qualifying times were standardized. Otherwise, he was fine with a .38 or .357 being carried.

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otis

I'm surprised more police officers don't carry wheel guns . They are the ultimate in dependability and in a high stress situation almost thoughtless in their function no safety no worries of a malfunction due to ammo and will stop a grizzly if need be.

Price plays a factor as well. Many smaller agencies do not provide the firearms to their officers.

A 8 round .357 is an awesome duty gun. Carry 3 or 4 guns, J frame pocket gun and a compact semi ankle gun, speedloaders/extra mags and the old limited round revolver argument is moot. Nothing wrong with adding a .380 in the vest carrier as well. Congrats to your chief for being a flexible guy.

Glocks are the issue weapon in our town, but officers can elect to carry their own.

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otis

Here is a picture of Charlie Sherrill a few years and pounds ago.
He has a Model 58 as his sidearm.
Yes that is a full auto.

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Corripe Cervisiam

Was that his dog?

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James L. "Jim" Rhiner

A model 58 and a Thompson? Isn't that some awful heavy firepower for a dog catcher?



Just kidding...I couldn't resist.

Great one Jellybean!

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otis

That was his dog. It was from a litter born at the Mississippi State Prison.

Charlie did a lot more dog catching before he got married.

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Corripe Cervisiam

My last duty gun, from 1999 to 2001, when I retired, was a 3" M625 in .45 ACP. I could reload faster than the majority of my fellow officers who were armed with semiautos.

Full moon clips are great for duty use.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

nice Magnolia back drop.

Heh. It's interesting to read some gun mags from the mid 60s through the 70s - or to talk some to some old police armorers who remembered the era - about how reliable revolvers supposedly were. There were always things breaking, needing tweaking, guns suffering from neglect, etc. Though a revolver is more tolerant of being used as a hammer and nut cracker than most autos I suppose.

Back in the old days people would also take the wood grips off, toss them to the side, and put on a set of rubber grips too. Meanwhile the fancy folks in LE would carry either 1911s or somewhat modified BHPs if they could get away with it. To a certain extent this was because in some circles these particular autos were felt to be just as, if not more, reliable than an out of the box service issue revolver.

Anyway... Glock provides special military and LE pricing and widely advertises such. Their products end up being more affordable than any of the newly produced revolvers from Smith and Wesson or Ruger suitable for primary carry. I still remember the Model 10s, 64s and 67s, brand new, with a retail close to 700 dollars that Quantico (MCX) had in stock.

Ouch. That's a lot of money on a public servant's salary. It was possible to get a "pre owned" Glock with warranty (at LE/mil pricing) for around half that at the time.

And thus one sees a lot of Glocks in police holsters.

If a six shot revolver was the best duty weapon for a law enforcement officer to carry today more officers would be carrying them. Fact of the matter is, nostalgia aside, for most primary law enforcement functions there are better duty weapons available than the typical service revolver from the days of yore.

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- Change it back -

Hi:
I carried a revolver for the first 35 years of my career . I purchase Glocks for my five LEO Sons when their agencies approved them, but they began their careers with S&W Revolvers. My Son-Inlaw began his career with my purchased Glock. It was refreshing for another member to mention a LEO's salary which was a major factor in one's service weapon purchase. Back in the "Day" of two man patrol units and mostly dispatch calls involving one or two suspects a revolver was "King". In today's dispatch calls with single man patrol units and negative rapid backup, firepower is a major concern. In my limited experience (45 years) the times I was involved in "Someone wants to shoot Jimmy" I wished for a weapon that was belt fed. The last ten years of my career I carried an agency issued Sig-Sauer P-229 .40 but a S&W backup. Most of the officers of my last agency switched to private purchased Glocks when authorized. They like the consistance trigger pull over the SA/DA Sig.

Real Cops Carry Revolvers

My local Chief used to carry his nickeled Python till the department got a grant to buy and issue standardized sidearms.

Beware the veteran cop still carrying a revolver! He hits what he aims at!

I've read the comments about revolvers posted above, and decided to enter a more serious post.

Any firearm is no better than the person shooting it, period. When I retired in 2007 I was carrying a revolver, by my choice because that was what I felt best fit the situation. Revolvers have advantages over autos and autos have advantages over revolvers and it depends on the individual which one he should be choosing, not that he will get it right. I could shoot and reload my revovlers faster than anyone on my dept. with autos, and some of them went out and bought revolvers from watching me shoot, but that was a mistake because I could shoot an auto better than they could too, it wasn't the gun.

Most officers choose autos because they are told they are better than revolvers, even though they have never fired a revolver in their lives. The "advantage" of more ammo is a crutch that will get them killed in a real hurry, especially after learning how to shoot from competition shooters.

Whatever the reason , I see an alarmingly high number of shots fired with relatively few hits in police shootings in the news , when the officers are using high capacity autoloaders. Training and familiarity with ones weapon is the key. I doubt many academys or departments can afford the kind of realistic , stress induced training used by US military special forces , or as offered by these 'combat ranches' like Gunsite.

Very well said. THANK

My wife carried a 686 for a little over 20 years and never had any problems with it not one hiccup.When the dept authorized and encouraged officers to change she said she wouldn't and never did.Later when she was working felony courts in civilian attire the 686 was too big to conceal.She replaced it with a snubby mod 36 and still qualified on the same range with other officers.She loves her wheel guns.

Around three years ago revolvers were "prohibited" as primary duty guns. Those of us who were grandfathered in were told "Oh so sorry. Get a shell shucker."

So I went to S&W 3rd generation 45's. Nice pistols. Only held two or three more rounds than my revolvers. No more accurate than my revolvers. More maintenance intensive - springs, lube, grease, ect - than a revolver. Heavier than a revolver too.

When NC changed a few General Statutes this past December, revolvers and 1911's were.....inadvertantly perhaps, put back on the "approved list".

So this past December I qualified with a 4" 66 and a 2.5" 66 as well as a 640-1 for BUG/Off duty. They just work, for me.

Carry whatever fits your hand and you can get fast accurate hits with. Be it semi auto or revolver. The first shot in an armed confrontation is the most important and you will be out of time long before you are out of ammunition. Regards 18DAI

You would be amazed how few officers show up for voluntary combat training, a significant percentage of the group does not shoot other than qualifying. A few stories from the head of the range where I shoot, one walked around for a YEAR with a loaded magazine, but nothing chambered, he thought he had one in it, but did not. One road LT took 3 tries to get 70% in the black on a B-27, another had left his gun in the holster so long part of the holster came off when he pulled the gun out. Finally, one guy had not cleaned his gun from last time's qualifying. These are all stories from this year, not over the years.

Those are the types who usually sneer at revolvers and have idea how to shoot accurately, the pray and sprayers.

"The M1 rifle is the best battle implement ever devised." General George Patton. If that is the case, why aren't our troops still carrying a M1 rifle into battle? For the same reason most cops don't still carry revolvers.

I'm not anti-revolver, and in fact still qualify with and carry my 3 inch M65 on occasion. As an LE instructor, though, my experiance has been that most of the officers who still carry revolvers as a primary uniform carry weapon do so for one of two reasons; 1) nostalgia and/or 2) unwilling or unable to make the transition to something new. Not saying this is all encompassing and that's how it is in the entire universe, but that's what I see on a consistent basis. Not saying that makes 'em ineffective officers or bad people either.

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- Change it back -

True. From my own personal experience as a former LEO, few of the guys I worked with could have been described as "gun guys". The gun was simply a required part of the uniform. The best shooters during quals were the same guys who also practiced on their own, at their own expense. These were the same guys who were smart enough to carry a BUG. My brother is a patrol officer in a small suburb of Memphis, and he doesn't bother to carry off-duty. Despite my numerous invitations, he has seldom gone with me to the range to shoot. It's just not his thing.

nuff' said.

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LIVE FROM THE DAWGHOUSE

Because like police departments , the military has to worry about the 'least common denominator' , who can't do push-ups , pull-ups , run 5mi , climb a 25ft rope , or carry , handle , shoot and qualify with a real rifle. The last real battle rifle , the M-14 and it's ammo was too big , heavy , and kicked too much for many smaller weaker draftees , and dare I say it , WOMEN!

Unfortunately , many of these type of LEOs also feel that civillians shouldn't carry , or even own handguns.

Several years ago , a friend and I were discussing metallic sillouette shooting and a state trooper over heard us and scoffed at hitting anything at the ranges we mentioned with a handgun. I countered that I could probably get a better score on a B-27 target at 50yds than he could at 25 , and invited him to my range. He brought a 686 .357 (can't recall bbl length) 7 1/2in .41 magnum Redhawk. Well , it was close , and he did have a smaller group. But he was amazed at my 5oyd group. He said he'd never even considered shooting a handgun at that range. I even placed one at 100yds and got all 6 hits on the body . He was speechless.

Jellybean said it better than I can....
My sometimes carry, dress-up rig and duty 627 8 shot. The main carry rig is ballistic nylon. Not as pretty but easier to maintain.

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Tom
"Panem et Circenses"

The reason that our troops aren't still carrying M1s is because General Patton didn't make that statement last week. At the time he said it the M1 was a great advancement and dominated the individual combat rifle field, even though it did have some drawbacks. Other rifles were made that adressed it's shortcomings and surpassed it. But new innovations aren't always an improvement. And there are even times in the military when an old war horse is a better choice than the latest and greatest, such as the M14. It is no different with handguns for police, choose what fits the best. Most of the police officers I knew at my last dept. had no real knowledge
of firearms. They chose autos because that's what they were told to get and the main reason was because they held more ammunition.

I was my departments requalification officer and I also requaled some smaller agencies. There were two reasons I heard from guys that still carried revolvers too. One was that they didn't want to have to go through the hassle of retraining because they were comfortable with a revolver. And Two was that they knew enough about handguns that they could make their own decisions and didn't fall for the magazine articles telling them they "needed" an auto.

Officer Tackleberry I presume? lol

anyways nice to know that theres still some places a cop can carry a revolver if he wishes to.

If it's good enough for Barney....



BTW, he carried a DS in plainclothes....

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Thirty characters. Exactly...

Real Cops Carry Revolvers, and patrol the streets, wear wellington boots, and stetson hats

[/QUOTE]

Back in '71 we went on a medavac 100 miles down the Baja coast. The guy had a heart attack and was supposed to be on a boat off shore. Got to the location and no boat just a bunch of folks on the beach waving. False info from an American that was living down there to avoid taxes. Anyhow we start loading the guy up and a Federale rolled up. He gets out of the car and he had 2 45s, crossed bandoliers and reached in the seat and got a Thompson. As he started heading our way the guys wife asked if she could go so I literally chunked her up the ladder into the chopper as I was making a one bounce entrance and told the pilot in no uncertain terms Let's go. Now!!! The pilot got a reprimand a couple of months later for landing but we figured we got lucky. Mexico had been know to impound CG aircraft and personnel even when proper permissions were obtained. Only folks I have seen with more "duty" arms has been on movies.
Larry

Revolvers look nice, shoot nice and get a lot of respect.

But if you need firepower, there's nothing better than a semi-auto!

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Jorge

"A weapon that you don't know how to use belongs to your enemy." -- Terry Pratchett

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You are what you learn.

Revolvers get a lot of respect because they've earned it.

"Firepower" is not a constant in any conflict, it might be a large capacity magazine or a single shot T/C Encore. Autos have peculiarities that requires more training to overcome and understand and the amount and quality of training most police officers I've seen are getting isn't even close to what they require.

We are neglecting the lessons learned from real gunfighters like Delf Bryce and Walter Walsh, and a whole host of others, that used both autos and revolvers to their maximum effectiveness against real targets. The idols now got their experience from shooting at baloons and paper and make rules for their games that show nothing but ignorance and bias about the reality of gunfighting. Which is a "MAJOR" mistake.

Word.

But I still prefer semi-autos.

I have Military background and I would even complain about the 20rd mag. in the H&K G3.

There is no "general rules which applies to all" on this topic. It's like I ask people which engine oil they prefer in their vehicles and why. We would never come to an end.

I do believe that if I need firepower for more than one intruder (or whatever threat) I have more chances to survive and rescue others with an semi-auto than a revolver.

No offense, just my opinion

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Jorge

Spray and Pray is no substitute for aimed fire.

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A closed mouth gathers no foot

JJEH, no offense taken and you have every right to your own opinion, and in this case I can agree with you. Match the weapon to your threat, get one of high quality and learn how to use it properly and to the best of your ability. Auto or revolver usually makes no difference if the shooters abilities are the same with each.

I'm not saying a revolver will not handle the situation because they have numerous times, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with a good auto in the right hands. But I do know of people that think the tactics of handling that situation would be different if they are armed with an auto instead of a revolver.

Jellybean, I hear you

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Jorge

A loaded M-14 weighs around 10.1 lbs. An M-16A2 runs 8.8 lbs loaded with 30 rounds. About 21 ounces more for the M-14. Seems worth the extra effort...

To the OP: I’m glad to hear your Chief offers some flexibility in his officer’s personal handgun choice.

In the military I didn’t mind (mostly) that someone else chose what firearm and ammo I carried. In LE duties I much prefer having that decision made by me, not by someone else that won’t be sitting in my shoes when I need to use that firearm. The situations and expectations are generally different between the military and LE in my opinion.

Revolver or semi-auto for LE duty? Within some reasonable limits*, as long as you are willing to live with what you have chosen, it should be your choice - it’s your butt on the line. I’m very comfortable with either platform, but for some strange reason I tend to shoot most of my revolvers a bit better than I do most of my semi-autos. Being able to get hits under stress is more important to me than the extra rounds. I don’t believe there is a “one size fits all” answer when it comes to personal defensive firearms choices.

Whichever you choose, just make sure you get to know it well so you can be the best you can be with it.

*I can understand some limitations on what firearm(s) a LE officer on duty may carry and qualify with, but in general, as long as the gun chosen is known to have a history of practical reliability, uses ammo that is powerful enough (but not excessive), and the officer shoots it well in department expectations or better, then the gun should be permitted for carry on duty at least as an alternative to the issued (if there is one) firearm(s).

I was a cop for 30 years and had to use a revolver more than once. In one instance it was a Detective Special and another it was a four inch Model 15. They just work and as proof I'm still around to see my grandkids.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

If I had to go on the street today I have to admit that the modern semi autos probably make more sense than the revolver, depending on your assignment. In the later years of my career I had moved up the food chain a couple of times and I was carrying a gun in the office most of the time. My hip began to bother me and the Glock went into a locked filing cabinet. My Model 38 was in the pocket of my uniform trousers and fact it's in the pocket of my jeans right now, 18 years into retirement.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

Charlie's dog is a 'Bloodhound'. A breed known for their tracking nose and tracking ability not for being an attack dog. If one finds you, you are very much indanger of being 'licked' to death. :-) That is a very nice looking dog.

So, does Charlies's Thompson become a "revolver" with a drum magazine?

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Wayne
Torn & Frayed

In combat or on patrol in a squad car--rarely does one have much time to do anything but react.
The folks in the rear with the gear are the ones complaining about the excessive rounds fired to the body count.
In WWII one general proposed that the troops should be given a limited amount of ammo so that they would be forced to shoot better.
I remember a GI who was harped on by the officer in charge of the range where he was trained at to never fire until you had a target.
When he got to VN He was instructed in fireing down range.
Blessings

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TEXAS, by GOD

I know it's wrong
But pride is a seductive temptress

Yesterday I could not resist showing some youngins -- who were shooting 6 inch groups with a 9mm plastic gun -- how it''s done with grey hair and a 1955 5" 357 Magnum:

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