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Old 02-17-2012, 09:43 AM
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Default What has happen to gun collecting?

I'm 39 and only been collecting for about 15 years. When I got started it was fun, gun shows, auctions and even buying large collection. This has all come to an end. People have over valued everything doesn't matter what it is.

When will this stop? Our is this what we all have to look forward to. Thinking strongly of finding a new hobby. This has become a game for the rich, somewhere to put there money. There are many fine s&w's that i would like to buy but i'm not paying these blotted prices.

OGCA march show is in about 3 weeks. Trying to be positive but who knows what will happen. At least the beer will be cold.
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Old 02-17-2012, 09:50 AM
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I've seen prices lower than they were some years ago in some cases, the same in others. Sometimes it helps to be have different tastes in terms of what you like to find. Me? I've found that I like it when I can find a Carcano that was made into a sporter or an interesting preGCA 68 Saturday Night Special.

Twenty more years and people will be collecting early generation Glocks because "they don't make them like that anymore".

Private sale prices on some revolver models are relatively low locally. People sell them to buy Glocks and there aren't a lot of buyers that snap them up owing to a general cash shortage.
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Old 02-17-2012, 09:59 AM
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I'm 39 and only been collecting for about 15 years. When I got started it was fun, gun shows, auctions and even buying large collection. This has all come to an end. People have over valued everything doesn't matter what it is.

When will this stop? Our is this what we all have to look forward to. Thinking strongly of finding a new hobby. This has become a game for the rich, somewhere to put there money. There are many fine s&w's that i would like to buy but i'm not paying these blotted prices.

OGCA march show is in about 3 weeks. Trying to be positive but who knows what will happen. At least the beer will be cold.
I predict it will end on November 7th of this year.
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Old 02-17-2012, 10:08 AM
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I predict it will end on November 7th of this year.
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Old 02-17-2012, 10:13 AM
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I think a lot of it has to do with the internet and gun forums

I'm serious - more people aware and chasing a finite number of older pieces. On the positive side, you can sell your pieces at the same outrageous prices
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Old 02-17-2012, 10:16 AM
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George - you use an interesting term "over valued" when it comes to collector guns. I have seen a recent phenomenum where I can no longer buy S&Ws at auctions at the prices I paid just last year. Time after time, I will go to my limit, which used to buy the gun and am outbid by a large margin.

Could this mean that demand is rising and collector gun values are on the increase? Are we seeing an improving market? Value is what people will pay for something and I thought lots of guns went too high at auctions, but maybe it is a sign of the times. I might have to start raising my bids if I want to add to my collection.

I know that you will always have the sellers on gun websites that price everything sky high, but they do not sell their stuff. Same with high priced sellers at gun shows, but watch to see if those over valued guns actually sell and you might see that some of these higher priced guns are actually selling.

In the early 60's, you could buy an American for $40 - $50. I started collecting Americans and Russians in the early 80's and could buy a good working condition speciman for $400 - $600. By the 90's, they were priced beyond what I would pay. You may not be able to find these for under $2000 today. Moral to the story is to buy wisely and quickly before the prices go higher!

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Old 02-17-2012, 10:28 AM
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When people ask $500 bucks for a S&W M19 then they're over valuing things. I paid less then that for a 686+ a few years ago. I'd love to pick up a good K-Frame but I'd not pay over $300 for any of em' and I'd not go over $350-$375 for an L-Frame. I can get a CPO Sig 2340 for $325 and have 12 rounds of 40cal with Sig quality so why pay much more for a 6 shot revolver.
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Old 02-17-2012, 10:39 AM
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I think a lot of it has to do with the internet and gun forums

I'm serious - more people aware and chasing a finite number of older pieces. On the positive side, you can sell your pieces at the same outrageous prices
Diito on that! We have created our own monster.

Plus I think more are into "collecting" for a quick profit. Also, have you seen the price of new S&W's! I'll take old over new any day, even if price is equal.

John
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Old 02-17-2012, 10:44 AM
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When it comes to collecting guns, we should all ask ourselves why do we do so and to what end? For me it's simple. I have a very small collection (12) of handguns, all S&W revolvers ranging from J to N frames, all of which I shoot regularly. Unless it were an investment, or a family heirloom, I wouldn't own a gun I didn't shoot at least occasionally. But I don't get so involved in any hobby that it takes me away from other things I enjoy doing. Shooting and reloading is a part of my life, not the sum. In other words I don't obsess about any one thing. Variety is the spice of life.
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Old 02-17-2012, 10:50 AM
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I'd love to pick up a good K-Frame but I'd not pay over $300 for any of em' and I'd not go over $350-$375 for an L-Frame. I can get a CPO Sig 2340 for $325 and have 12 rounds of 40cal with Sig quality so why pay much more for a 6 shot revolver.

Different strokes Frank. Personally,IF I had to KEEP it,I wouldn't pay over $50 for ANY Sig other than a 210.
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Old 02-17-2012, 11:07 AM
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I think a lot of it has to do with the internet and gun forums

I'm serious - more people aware and chasing a finite number of older pieces. On the positive side, you can sell your pieces at the same outrageous prices
"We create our own inflation."
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Old 02-17-2012, 11:12 AM
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I talked to a seller at the last Fond du Lac gun show that had some nice old S&W revolvers for sale. His complaint was no one is looking at revolvers anymore. I really wanted to tell him that if he lowered his prices people may start looking more. He had a really nice Mdl 14 dated 1950 that he was asking $675 for. Another dealer has a 586 4" that he was asking $650 for. He has had this gun at all the FDL and Oshkosh shows for 2 years now and wont lower his price. On the other hand Cabela's in Richfield offered me $250 for a like new 6" mod 19-3 TTT in the original box. I wanted to do a trade for an Anschutz rifle they had. The only good deal I got in the last couple of years was pre 14 for $375 and one day at a local dealer a guy came in wanting to sell a 14 and a 15 for $300 each. The owner handed the guns to me while I was filling out paper work on a gun I just did a transfer on. I took both of them. I did pay way to much for a mint 4" model 48 only because it was the first one I found in two years of looking. Lots of 6 and 8 3/8 inchers but no 4"
I have all of the S&W models that I want so I guess that is a good thing. I am still looking to get a Ruger 3 screw flat top 44mag in 6 1/2 inch. Best I can find is going for $950 on GB

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Old 02-17-2012, 11:17 AM
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Different strokes Frank. Personally,IF I had to KEEP it,I wouldn't pay over $50 for ANY Sig other than a 210.
f.t.
... except that I would add the SiG 220, 245, 226, 229 to the list of "Keepers"...

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Old 02-17-2012, 11:18 AM
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When people ask $500 bucks for a S&W M19 then they're over valuing things. I paid less then that for a 686+ a few years ago. I'd love to pick up a good K-Frame but I'd not pay over $300 for any of em' and I'd not go over $350-$375 for an L-Frame. I can get a CPO Sig 2340 for $325 and have 12 rounds of 40cal with Sig quality so why pay much more for a 6 shot revolver.
How are they overvaluing "things" if that is the going rate? How does what you paid for a 686+ a few years ago, have anything to do with what another model is worth today? How does the number of rds that a SIG semi-auto holds have a bearing on what a S&W revolver is worth?

Go ahead and get the guns you want, which obviously doesn't include a S&W K or L frame magnum revolver because they don't hold 12 rds.
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Old 02-17-2012, 11:26 AM
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What has happened to the price of food, cars, oil, etc?
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Old 02-17-2012, 11:29 AM
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Maybe we should ask ourselves if it's the value of the "thing" going up or the value of a dollar going down. Anyone remember 25 cent gasoline??
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Old 02-17-2012, 11:29 AM
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I walk and set up for many shows during the winter.
Spend alot of time on the net.
$300 S&W and Colt handguns are few and far between.
I agree many dealers are out of whack on gun show prices.
What has become difficult is after you sell a nice Smith is finding
a decent replacment.
Heck, have the fun is the "hunt".
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Old 02-17-2012, 11:53 AM
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I hope you're right!
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Old 02-17-2012, 12:01 PM
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The prices are only out of touch with reality if the guns don't sell. If the gun sells, it was valued correctly.
If it gets too rich for my blood, indeed it is time for me to find another pursuit.

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Old 02-17-2012, 12:05 PM
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My dad often used to say "Everything costs mo." It was true then, it is true now, and with the economy headed the way it is, you haven't seen nothin' yet. I've maintained for a long time that your only hedges against inflation are collectible guns and gold or silver. And ammunition may yet prove to be the best kind of currency. If you don't believe that, check the current prices and availability against the same stuff ten years ago.

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Old 02-17-2012, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
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What has happened to the price of food, cars, oil, etc?
What has NOT gone up? Groceries and utilities seem to be higher every month.



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Anyone remember 25 cent gasoline??
Yes.
18 cents once during a gas war!
I remember when $2 worth ran me a few days in a 390 with two 4's!
A guy pumped it for ya, cleaned the windshield, and checked the oil. He'd check the tires if you asked him to.
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Old 02-17-2012, 12:16 PM
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Yeah, and I was making $1.50 an hour.
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Old 02-17-2012, 12:27 PM
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At 39, and collecting for 15 years, you ain't seen nuthin! Wait til you're nearly seventy, and have been collecting for over fifty years. Winchester 1886's that weren't nice enough to spend fifty dollars on are now upwards of two grand; Smith 1950 Targets for sixty-five bucks, K38's and K22's for fifty dollars.

Of course, wages were a lot lower, but you didn't have the tax man picking your pocket quite as enthusiastically. The sad thing was, at the time I was looking at twenty year old American Rifleman, and seeing where brand new Colt New Services were being sold for just over twenty-five bucks, and Winchester 1892's and 86's were thirty bucks; wishing I could have taken advantage of those prices.
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Old 02-17-2012, 12:34 PM
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What was your income 15 years ago? What percent has it gone up? Apply that same percent increase to the price of a S&W. I bet it isn't too far off from what your income went up.
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Old 02-17-2012, 12:45 PM
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The prices are only out of touch with reality if the guns don't sell. If the gun sells, it was valued correctly...
It's called market-value and it is indisputable.

Sometimes I see a used S&W that I want but what I am willing to pay is a ways away from its actual selling price. I may like the gun a great deal, but I just do not think the current price is "reasonable," according to my own built-in price barometer. The actual buyer thinks the price is reasonable enough that he pulls the trigger. This doesn't unduly influence me, much less make me consider another interest! I have been shooting, buying, tinkering with, and generally immersed in, S&W revolvers all of my life. During that period I have been out-spent over and over and over again by others with more money and/or more desire. I would never expect it to be otherwise. Don't see the current situation as anything really new - just accelerated by the electronic media, which we all enjoy. That same media has generally accelerated virtually everything it comes in contact with - both in good and not-so-good ways.
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Old 02-17-2012, 12:52 PM
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It's called market-value and it is indisputable.

Sometimes I see a used S&W that I want but what I am willing to pay is a ways away from its actual selling price. I may like the gun a great deal, but I just do not think the current price is "reasonable," according to my own built-in price barometer. The actual buyer thinks the price is reasonable enough that he pulls the trigger. This doesn't unduly influence me, much less make me consider another interest! I have been shooting, buying, tinkering with, and generally immersed in, S&W revolvers all of my life. During that period I have been out-spent over and over and over again by others with more money and/or more desire. I would never expect it to be otherwise. Don't see the current situation as anything really new - just accelerated by the electronic media, which we all enjoy. That same media has generally accelerated virtually everything it comes in contact with - both in good and not-so-good ways.
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Old 02-17-2012, 12:59 PM
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REALLY Expensive Smiths were the "Money Guns" from the 70's. I remember paying $750 for my first 29. I was making $4.40 a hour at my first job and $30 a day on my second.

We have been really spoiled for the past 25 years.
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Old 02-17-2012, 01:00 PM
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Default The "I" word...

Like Ladder 13 and several others have mentioned-It's all gone up. But with few exceptions, I'm in the "older is better" club when it comes to many things, guns made out of metal being on the top of the list, but when you considder the other factors mentioned, larger population of buyers, investors looking for a hole to dive in, etc, I think the prices would be a at a level that would make our eyes roll back into our heads, if it were not for the depressed economic situation we are now in. Join the stampede. Flapjack.
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Old 02-17-2012, 01:16 PM
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How are they overvaluing "things" if that is the going rate? How does what you paid for a 686+ a few years ago, have anything to do with what another model is worth today? How does the number of rds that a SIG semi-auto holds have a bearing on what a S&W revolver is worth?
Because I can get a better "tool" for the job for less money. It's like comparing a new BMW to a Model T. Sure, some folks would love to have a Model T but really, the BMW would be a better driving tool then the Model T would be.
I love revolvers, pretty much cut my teeth on em' but for home defense I want as many rounds as I can get for those "bump in the night" situations. When you're in your underware with just a flashlight and a handgun you want all the "bang for the buck" that you can get. Sure, a good K or L frame would work but I'd not pay as much or more for something that'll limit my ability to defend myself as I would something that'd be a better tool for the job at hand.
I guess it all depends on your priorities and how much disposable income you have to spend on the tools you need.
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Old 02-17-2012, 01:24 PM
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Deals can be found but you are not likely to find many at Gun Shows,Most of My best deals have come from Local Pawn Shops & a few from Local Gun Shops
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Old 02-17-2012, 01:25 PM
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Because I can get a better "tool" for the job for less money. It's like comparing a new BMW to a Model T. Sure, some folks would love to have a Model T but really, the BMW would be a better driving tool then the Model T would be.
I love revolvers, pretty much cut my teeth on em' but for home defense I want as many rounds as I can get for those "bump in the night" situations. When you're in your underware with just a flashlight and a handgun you want all the "bang for the buck" that you can get. Sure, a good K or L frame would work but I'd not pay as much or more for something that'll limit my ability to defend myself as I would something that'd be a better tool for the job at hand.
I guess it all depends on your priorities and how much disposable income you have to spend on the tools you need.
I'd say it's more like comparing a pickup truck(bottom feeder) to a Mercedes(wheelgun). The pickup is practical, but the Mercedes just makes you feel good!
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Old 02-17-2012, 01:29 PM
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I'd say it's more like comparing a pickup truck(bottom feeder) to a Mercedes(wheelgun). The pickup is practical, but the Mercedes just makes you feel good!
Think you need to flip that. The Pick-up is the revolver and the Mercedes is the semi-auto. LOL. Having said that I'd not trade my '96 S-10 V-8 conversion for two sports cars.
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Old 02-17-2012, 01:41 PM
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I predict it will end on November 7th of this year.
You know Nov. 7th was my dad's birthday. That is bound to be a good day.

_____
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Old 02-17-2012, 01:43 PM
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When people ask $500 bucks for a S&W M19 then they're over valuing things. I paid less then that for a 686+ a few years ago. I'd love to pick up a good K-Frame but I'd not pay over $300 for any of em' and I'd not go over $350-$375 for an L-Frame. I can get a CPO Sig 2340 for $325 and have 12 rounds of 40cal with Sig quality so why pay much more for a 6 shot revolver.
Fair enough, but with that thinking you will not be 'picking up' many (any?) 'good' K, or L frames... Sigs are nice guns, so looks like you're in luck being able to find them cheap.

Pricing is always relative. No matter how much you want it to be, or need it to be, you just can't expect prices to be the way they were xx years ago. Just doesn't work that way. Our whole economy, and it's health, is based on "growth."

What does everyone think "growth" means? Growth means increasing revenue & profits, and the related pricing to get there. Hear it all the time, my cable bill used to be $xx, a car used to cost $xx, my rent used to be $xx, used to be able to buy a nice S&W for $xx, etc...

People hate change, especially when it costs more money!! The real problem is when industry (corporations) drive pricing up more than the relative increase in wages. Of course over the past several years wages have been way down, non-existent for many, but prices are increasing. Corporations are seeing record profits, and regular people are just trying to hang on, not pretty... The rules of the game have shifted heavily toward corporations.

As for our beloved guns, you can always find some kind of a great deal from someone that does not know what they have (sadly, especially a widow), or are desperate for cash. But other than those rare circumstances, quality guns will go up in value; some faster than others.
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Old 02-17-2012, 01:47 PM
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A local guy has an M64 and an M19, he'd take $600 for both, that's $300 each, wish to God I had the money, I'd grab em' in a heart beat or less. There are deals out there, you just have to look for them. There are also a lot of folks that think they're old revolvers are worth more then a new one would cost. You just have to sort the deals from the turds.
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Old 02-17-2012, 01:56 PM
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The internet has provided education in many areas.

More people are aware as to what they can get for their items.
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Old 02-17-2012, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by labworm View Post
The internet has provided education in many areas.

More people are aware as to what they can get for their items.
YES! Very few "uneducated sellers" out there today...
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  #38  
Old 02-17-2012, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by TIMETRIPPER View Post
Diito on that! We have created our own monster.

Plus I think more are into "collecting" for a quick profit. Also, have you seen the price of new S&W's! I'll take old over new any day, even if price is equal.

John
I think your second point is particularly valid. People are comparing new S&W revolvers to older models and the old timers are winning out.
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  #39  
Old 02-17-2012, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by TNFrank View Post
When people ask $500 bucks for a S&W M19 then they're over valuing things. I paid less then that for a 686+ a few years ago. I'd love to pick up a good K-Frame but I'd not pay over $300 for any of em' and I'd not go over $350-$375 for an L-Frame. I can get a CPO Sig 2340 for $325 and have 12 rounds of 40cal with Sig quality so why pay much more for a 6 shot revolver.
What did you pay for gas a few years ago ??
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  #40  
Old 02-17-2012, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Xfuzz View Post
I walk and set up for many shows during the winter.
Spend alot of time on the net.
$300 S&W and Colt handguns are few and far between.
I agree many dealers are out of whack on gun show prices.
What has become difficult is after you sell a nice Smith is finding
a decent replacment.
Heck, have the fun is the "hunt".
Why did you sale your Smith & Wesson ? I have never sold one of my S&W
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  #41  
Old 02-17-2012, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by M29since14 View Post
It's called market-value and it is indisputable.

..................
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..................................
.......................................... Don't see the current situation as anything really new - just accelerated by the electronic media, which we all enjoy. That same media has generally accelerated virtually everything it comes in contact with - both in good and not-so-good ways.
The net has changed values- both up and down. Human attrition also changes the market- usually down.

Guns are pushed upward by the net because of increased interest. More pre-war and classic revolvers are available because the orig owners have aged beyond their need for them or died. However, interest seems to have increased more than the increased availability, so competition for acquisition pushes prices steadily upward.

In the 80's, I dealt in rare and out-of-print books about guns and hunting. Many desirable books never had large printings or multiple printings, so some brought high prices when you could even find one. A good example is Neal & Jinks. I sold copies in the 80's in pristine condition for $450-550 for either edition! Now, a very clean copy can usually be had for $125-200.
Only 3000 of each edition were printed as I recall.
Two things have set that lower market value:
1> Reprints. Even after the reprint of the 90's, I continued to sell nice orig's for the same prices to advanced collectors who did not want reprints, but the market was undeniably smaller. The buyers who only wanted the data went for the $50 reprints.
2> The net. It is undeniable that the net has made orig's easy to find on almost any given day, pushing values down. It is also undeniable that some people will not even pay $50 for the new reprint when they can login here on any given day and have a question answered or a gun dated or valued within 45 minutes of asking!
"I don't need to KNOW anything, I just need to know WHO does!"

Bottom line-
we always get back to supply and demand. The supply of orig Neal & Jinks books is higher than anytime since the release, and the demand is lower.

The supply of collectible guns may be higher, but the demand has grown more.
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  #42  
Old 02-17-2012, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by AABEN View Post
Why did you sale your Smith & Wesson ? I have never sold one of my S&W
Another simple economic law-
you can't have outgo without income!

By the time I was 40, I had owned over 1000 guns, and shot hundreds of different types and models on a blue collar income. Some always had to go so others could come. I almost wish I could have kept most of them, but it would take a lot of time and resources just to maintain and protect them.
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  #43  
Old 02-17-2012, 03:46 PM
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Well fella's we brought a lot of this on ourselves. When we talk about how great a revolver the 3 1/2inch mdl 27 is then everybody and his brother no matter what shape their 27 is in thinks that their's is worth what the top most price is. Just using the 27 as an example, it is a fine revolver, but is a shooter grade worth $700-$1100 I have seen them go for-no! But people are willing to pay that for them because we expound on how great a revolver it is and have threads and threads of comments about this revolver.
This could be said of others too, mdl 19's, 36's and 3inch 66's. And what about all the bandwidth we take up about mdl 29's and the poor man's working gun the mdl 28-look at what has happened to the price of these revolvers.
This is just my opinion but people other then members of this forum look at what we debate and praise and then they put their two cents into the mix and bingo!, the price of everything we talk on goes out the roof.
But the same is the true of other Forums too, have you looked at the price of old Ruger's and Colt's? Remember when you could pick up a three screw Blackhawk for a song or grab a Goverment Model for little or nothing?
So, do I complain about the cost of guns, you bet! But really, can we blame anyone else?
God Bless
Danny A.
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  #44  
Old 02-17-2012, 03:52 PM
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Yep, everyone thinks that the old, beat up LEO trade in M10 they bought 15 years ago for $150 bucks is now worth $400 simply because a LNIB one sells for that much to a collector. I still can't see putting more then $400 into ANY S&W revolver, even the Lou Horton 657, 2.5" round butt that I use to own back in '89. It was a nice revolver but dang, there are just so many better options for Home Defense these days for $400 that I can't see putting that into a revolver and I DO love revolvers. Just not going to give my left gonad for one.

P.S.
I guess I could always jump on the ol' band wagon and list my 642-2 for sale at $500 bucks, someone would appreciate this "classic" revolver enough to pay that price for it. LOL
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  #45  
Old 02-17-2012, 03:59 PM
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Anyone seeing some 66-1 or M19 mint snubbies or a 617 or a pre 17 yada yada..... for a princely sum of $302 please give me a call. Thanks
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  #46  
Old 02-17-2012, 04:10 PM
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Anyone seeing some 66-1 or M19 mint snubbies or a 617 or a pre 17 yada yada..... for a princely sum of $302 please give me a call. Thanks
I'll go $375.00 so come to me rather the ladder.
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  #47  
Old 02-17-2012, 04:11 PM
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I'll go $375.00 so come to me rather the ladder.

$375.01
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  #48  
Old 02-17-2012, 04:13 PM
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I started this hobby late in life so I never bought a gun at the price it sold at 25-50 years ago and I shoot, not collect, so my outlook may differ from others. Bought some dogs not knowing any better but have sold or traded them all and was not worried about losing a couple of bucks in the learning process. I now truly own everything I want (I hope) and didn't haggle over 25 or 50 bucks, and finally know enough to stay away from the auction bidding game. In the future, probably when I can't shoot anymore, I will be a seller just looking to try to break even, not make a killing, since I will take into account the enjoyment I have had shooting them.
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  #49  
Old 02-17-2012, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by AABEN View Post
Why did you sale your Smith & Wesson ? I have never sold one of my S&W

Well,how many do you have? When you get up into the 100+,or even several times that,you might change your philosophy. Just sayin'.
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Old 02-17-2012, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by TNFrank View Post
Yep, everyone thinks that the old, beat up LEO trade in M10 they bought 15 years ago for $150 bucks is now worth $400 simply because a LNIB one sells for that much to a collector. I still can't see putting more then $400 into ANY S&W revolver, even the Lou Horton 657, 2.5" round butt that I use to own back in '89. It was a nice revolver but dang, there are just so many better options for Home Defense these days for $400 that I can't see putting that into a revolver and I DO love revolvers. Just not going to give my left gonad for one.

P.S.
I guess I could always jump on the ol' band wagon and list my 642-2 for sale at $500 bucks, someone would appreciate this "classic" revolver enough to pay that price for it. LOL

several observations:
everyone does not own a handgun simply for home protection...there are many other uses
the prices you quote relating to "to high" "i wouldn't pay that etc" are not realistic in todays market...not saying one cannot luck up on a great deal from time to time but overall they sell for more
you apparently have a need (or desire) for a large number of rounds...everyone doesn't...
you mention you would not pay more than $400 for ANY S&W revolver..thats fine..more for me!i'll be glad to pay $401 for that beautiful registered magnum!
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