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  #1  
Old 03-14-2012, 10:45 PM
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My wife is watching that Nanny reality show. I hate it as well as most reality TV.

I don't agree with the No Spank talk until your blue in the face method. You'll notice I said Spank, not Beat.

My dad beat the heck out of me. And I probably deserved it. His father beat him and so on. I broke the cycle with my daughter thankfully.

When she was in diapers she got swatted several times. And it worked. She's now out of college living on her own. She's never been in trouble.

When she was still in diapers, we got her one of those paddles with the rubber ball attached to a rubber band. It broke a while later. One day my wife was extremely mad at our daughter and wrote her name on the wooden paddle. Every time our daughter made mom mad, mom would show her the paddle with daughter's name on it. It had a profound effect. Never had to use it and we joke about it to this day.

I might add, one day my wife got mad at me and wrote MY name on the paddle!
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Old 03-14-2012, 10:54 PM
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My parents spanked me growing up, but I was never beaten. I was probably 6 or 7 the last time I was spanked, after that I could receive "the look" from either of my parents and knew it was time to stop whatever it was I was doing.

I have two sons. The oldest was spanked once around 3 or 4 years old, never required it after that. The youngest, now 15, needed a little more physical encouragement up until he was about 5 or 6. Both of them by then understood what "the look" meant, as I inherited it from my dad.
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Old 03-14-2012, 11:45 PM
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I got beat regularly. I turned out ok. I turned out ok. I turned out ok.
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Old 03-14-2012, 11:55 PM
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Spare the rod and spoil the child. I have 5 kids and I provide appropriate consequences based on the infraction, and sometimes spanking is the proper consequence. I am told regularly by babysitters, teachers, scout leaders, choir directors, etc. that my kids are the most well behaved and well mannered children they encounter. And I wonder what's wrong with them because my kids are clearly all wild misbehaving ankle biting anarchists. That is until I go out in public and see the other kids those babysitters, teachers, scout leaders, choir directors, etc. have to deal with. Makes me want to go spank their parents. Always makes me go home and tell my kids how proud I am of them. Yep, spare the rod and spoil the child.
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Old 03-14-2012, 11:58 PM
BLACKHAWKNJ BLACKHAWKNJ is offline
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I never got spanked or whupped, it wasn't done in my family, my sibling and cousins and I turned out all right. As the Jack Nicholson character says in the first "Batman" movie, "Better think about the future." I've known my share of people who were too quick with corporal punishment and are now reaping what they sowed. It's a little rough when you're 65, bothered by arthritis, bursitis, bum knee, bad back, whatever and you're trying to duke it out with someone who's half your age, a good 20-30 muscular pounds heavier, and has a lot of anger and resentment to stoke thier anger.
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Old 03-15-2012, 12:01 AM
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I had my fraternity paddle on my office wall of my first teaching post. It was the early days of school and I was still checking handbooks. One kid walks past my door. Then I see her back up. "Mrs. McNeil, is that a paddle?" "yes" "Is it to use on us?" "That's up to you if I do or don't"

No problems.

This was a private school where we could if we had to.

Because we could, we never had to.

In the places where you can't is where you need to most.
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Old 03-15-2012, 12:04 AM
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I got hit when I deserved it and it was the same for my two boys when they were young. My oldest got paddled pretty good for running away from my side when we were walking through the parking lot. He was still in diapers and I had just told him how important it was to stay by my side so I can hold his hand. One good spanking later and we never had the issue again. My youngest was told to leave the candle alone and couldn't help himself, he covered it with a hand towel so he got a spanking. He never pushed the envelope again. In both memorable spankings it was over their personal safety as they were too young to understand how dangerous the behavior could be. Boys are 14 and 11 now and they are doing quite well. I don't believe in blasting a child for everything they do but will bust their behind if they did something that could get them hurt.
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Old 03-15-2012, 12:23 AM
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Interesting subject, and I'm sure a lot of different opinions. I don't pass judgement on how others discipline their children, but am often annoyed by how undisciplined so many kids seem to be these days.

My father raised us kids (I'm the youngest of 4) in the 'old school' tradition. He demanded respect for him and my mother, and he was not shy about using his belt, or open hand to re-enforce that discipline, when we stepped over the established line. My father was a very intense competitive, physical guy back then. I really feel that he only did this when we truly were out of line, but it was terrifying none the less. I think it was even worse for my older siblings.

I love my dad, he's a great guy, and I have benefited by what he has taught me over the years. I understand that my grandfather was very heavy handed with my father, and I'm sure that's where he got it... A few years ago, I was visiting with my young son, and my father actually apologized for 'being too rough with me' when I was young, that he regretted it in hindsight. I could tell he felt really bad/guilty about it. My father is a man of few words, so I know he really wanted to get it off of his chest. I told him not to worry about it, I'm sure he did the best he could, and that I couldn't imagine having a better dad. I think it made him feel better. He's a very good man, he just handled things the way he was raised, but it was rough.

This being said, I do believe there is a better way of maintaining discipline, and control, other than resorting to it becoming physical. I'm the father of a 6 year old son, and 2 year old daughter. With my oldest, during times of stress, I found myself resorting to imposing myself over him, and really had to stop and restrain myself. I swatted him on his butt once, and the look that came over his face really hit me. I love my son like no one else, I waited 40 years to have him, and I swore that I would do what I could to find a better way. I don't ask for God's help in many things, but I'll tell you that I did in this area...

I'm sure that swat on the butt helped him gain a healthy bit of 'respect' for me, but really it just scared him. I don't like the idea of having to terrorize a child in order to have him understand 'respect'; it's counter intuitive if you think about it.

It takes a lot more work, and thinking, but there are truly better, more intelligent, more effective ways of reaching your children without scaring the stuff out of them. I'm positive that spanking the heck out of your kid will get compliance, but I believe it comes with a host of issues for the child down the road. I'm a pretty big guy, 6' 2" 200 lbs., and I've been around the block when it comes to physical confrontations. I'm pretty sure that when my son was 2-3-4-5, etc. years old, that he would see me as a pretty darn imposing figure when I would get riled up. I just felt that hitting him would break down the trust that he has in me, I'm convinced that that stuff really does damage kids. I found myself resorting to really yelling at him, that too is not healthy, and I've worked on that. I'm at a place now where I'm a better parent, and I have a wonderful, respectful son. And, I've talked to him about these things along the way, just because they're little does not mean their stupid...

I wish I could have done a better job, but I always thought about it, and tried to do the best I could. I think that's the best any of us parents can do, just try to do it better for your child than you had it. My hope is that he will be even better with his son some day...

I really think that you need to spend a lot of time with them, communicate to have them understand, stay diligent to back up what you tell them. Every kid is different, my oldest is very kind, and gentle, and I really don't see where getting physical would ever be an effective method. My 2 year old daughter is 10 times more challenging than my son was at that age, but I really am much more patient the second time around. Plus she's real cute, thank God! I find myself more amused by the hysterics this time around!

Anyway, I usually don't get personal on these forums, but this is a sensitive subject to me, and I like to share my thoughts on it. Thanks for the rant, cheap therapy, I guess!
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Old 03-15-2012, 12:36 AM
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I got spanked (hard) several times as a kid. I probably got away with a lot of stuff that should have got me spanked. I turned out fine. My first child, a girl, now 21 and married, got it a number of times. My second, a boy, now 18, got it a BUNCH more (and he deserved every one). We always say our third child was only a girl for one reason.......Prayer. We said "God, we love him, but PLEASE don't give us another boy!" He was stinkin' cute, but what a handful! Our youngest daughter (Daddy's Girl, by the way) is now almost 15, and has never been spanked. She actually has NEVER done anything even remotely bad enough to deserve it. If she had, we would have spanked her, but she honestly has been just that good.
All three of them turned out great, and we love them equally, and I can honestly say I would do it all just the same if I could go back...... And I really wish I could sometimes.
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Old 03-15-2012, 03:15 AM
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I was the disciplinarian when my kids were little, and I swatted little butts when I felt they needed it. I was spanked, and HARD, as a kid, and I will tell you unabashedly that I had it coming, and it did me good. Kids need boundaries, need to understand the rules, and once rulesand punishments are established, things get better for all concerned. No sane parent wants to smack their kids, but sometimes you have to show them you mean business, and some things won't be tolerated. If it's not an everyday thing, they figure out what not to do pretty quickly.

My oldest daughter was a rebel, and thought she was above having to listen to me. Her Mama wouldn't paddle her, but I would, and she decided I was just a jerk. Then we moved to a new area, a new school district, and she didn't like the teacher, or being the new kid, so when the bus came, she hid behind a tree until it left. Then she came inside and told us the bus never came, so it must be a day off of school. I had watched the whole thing from the garage, told her Mama what had happened, and let nature take its course. Mama asked her several times if she was sure the bus hadn't come, daughter insisted it hadn't, and Mama finally pulled her over her knee and spanked her but good. Mama hadn't ever spanked her like that, and she responded by screaming, "You're beating me! You're beating me!"

Mama replied (between whacks with an open hand) "I have not yet BEGUN to beat! If you ever lie to me again you'll get it ten times worse than this, and then you have to face your Daddy!"

There were no further problems with that child.............ever. And her younger siblings, who were old enough to witness what happened, never even TRIED to lie to her, or transgress in other ways. The Wrath of The Mama was FAR worse than anything I ever dished out.
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Old 03-15-2012, 07:43 AM
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My parents used corporal punishment. My mother preferred a switch cut off a tree in the back yard. It was used infrequently. My father was raised amid harsh circumstances in a chaotic home environment. He used his belt. It was used infrequently. When used it was severe. My wife seldom if ever used corporal punishment on our daughters. Her methods were very effective as demonstrated by the outstanding results obtained with our children. I only occasionally spanked my daughters and only in cases of extreme disobedience which were very seldom. Perhaps some of the reason such discipline was only occasionally required is that the home environment was stable, expectations and responsibility was clearly stated and understood. JMHO. Sincerely. brucev.
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Old 03-15-2012, 08:39 AM
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I was spanked occasional when i was a small child and imho i am a better man for it.
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Old 03-15-2012, 09:13 AM
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I got spanked, but I can't honestly say that it was very effective. Maybe they didn't hit me hard enough? The worst punishment that I remember was being grounded, or the dreaded bar of soap. Ever have soap rubbed across your teeth? Yummy. lol.

We've never spanked our kids, but I have had to be firm with them at times and let them know that I was fully capable of dealing with them if they didn't change their behavior. Today, my kids are very well behaved, they get good grades, and get good reports from their teachers.

I'm glad that I didn't get into physical struggles with them. My 15-year-old is already about 5'-11" and 200+ pounds. I can no longer easily manhandle him.
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Old 03-15-2012, 09:22 AM
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I have taught in schools with and without paddling. The Schools with were much better. If parents do not want their kids paddled they should (a) teach them to behave and/or (b) go to school and take the paddling for them.
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Old 03-15-2012, 09:25 AM
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Spanking is fine as long as you never administer the punishment while angry. You must deliver it the punishment in an unemotional almost business like manner, if you let your emotions get the better of you the child may get hurt.

The spanking never bother me near as much as the lectures.
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Old 03-15-2012, 09:34 AM
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I only ever swatted my son once, on the butt. That seemed to be enough. But I was lucky; he was easy. There are kids that if they were mine, I'd paddle them, although I don't know how much good it would do. I don't have any firm feeling for or against corporal punishment. Obviously, many kids grow up with it and turn out just fine.

But there is a point where it crosses a line and becomes abuse. The papers are full of stories of abuse of infants, beatings, broken bones, sometimes homicides. Then you add the sexual abuse of children. I don't get this. Sometimes it seems too much to ask that parents refrain from beating their kids up and having sex with them; if you can just do that, your kids will probably be all right, but so many seem unable to manage it.
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Old 03-15-2012, 09:39 AM
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When I was a wee lad, I was watching my great uncle shave with a straight razor. I asked him why he used that instead of a Gillette like my father. He replied, "It's a useful skill for a man to have. Someday you will be married and you will understand."

I was bewildered, but a dozen years later when I first started to shave he fixed me up with a razor, mug, brush and strop and taught me to use them. I got to liking it as much for the good shave as to impress my "cowardly" friends. But then I went into the Army and straight razors were forbidden in the barracks. Later, living in family quarters, I was running late one morning when I picked up the nasty, sodden, clogged mess that was my razor when my uncle's words came back to me. I WAS married, and I UNDERSTOOD!!

That morning my old razor came out and the strop got hung in the bathroom. My dull razor problems ended immediately and, as a bonus after kids were born, the presence of the strop became the "nuclear option."

All the kids, and all their friends, knew it was a dual purpose device; useful for sharpening my razor and affecting behavior modification in small children. It never took more that saying, "Do I need to get the razor strap?" to have a salubrious effect.

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Old 03-15-2012, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by BLACKHAWKNJ View Post
I never got spanked or whupped, it wasn't done in my family, my sibling and cousins and I turned out all right. As the Jack Nicholson character says in the first "Batman" movie, "Better think about the future." I've known my share of people who were too quick with corporal punishment and are now reaping what they sowed. It's a little rough when you're 65, bothered by arthritis, bursitis, bum knee, bad back, whatever and you're trying to duke it out with someone who's half your age, a good 20-30 muscular pounds heavier, and has a lot of anger and resentment to stoke thier anger.
Where is your .357? Don't fight an old man, he's too weak to fight and he'll just shoot you.
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Old 03-15-2012, 10:37 AM
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I had an ADHD grand child, he wore pampers or equivelent. If you cup your hand just right it will cause a severe pop when used. Scares the living out of the kid and gets their attention and the message is clear,no marks and very effective. kid never touched one of my guns again without permission. Also never crossed me again. If I said it , it was the law.

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Old 03-15-2012, 10:43 AM
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My Bulldogs get a " time out ", if i had children they would get a mild spanking if warranted and until they were old enough to understand right from wrong. Just like I did, nough said, 26
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Old 03-15-2012, 10:53 AM
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Yep, I was spanked mainly by my dad when I deserved it and I deserved it alot when I was a kid. My dad passed away when I was twenty nine but he taught me some very valuable life lessons before he did that I will always be thankful to him for. Thanks Pop, I love and miss you alot!

I remember a time when I was a senior in high school. I had a wood shop teacher who was in charge for a study hall period. This guy came up to about my shoulders and really didn't scare me at all. I constantly went into the class after the buzzer because after all, I was a big shot senior and the teacher was just a runt of a guy and no one was telling me what I can and can't do. One day he said to me "if you come in here late tomorrow, you and I are going over to the wood shop." The next day, probably because I was so defiant, I went in after the late buzzer. George immediately called me out of the room and took me across the hall to the wood shop. He told me to take my wallet out of my back pocket and bend over one of the tables. He then, without hesitation, cracked me across the butt with one of the boards he found laying around. It literally brought tears to my eyes although I refused to let him see that it bothered me.

Jump ahead years later and I'm married with kids of my own. George is now retired but he is in charge of the local Little League Baseball and manages the team one of my kids are on. I still tower over him and weigh nearly twice what he does BUT, I respected him very much. We always joked about the day in the wood shop and I'd ask him jokingly if he'd like to try that again! It always ended in a good laugh.

Sorry for the long rant but I'm all for a good swat across the butt when its needed. It taught me humiliation and respect and I will always be thankful for the people in my past that put me on the right path!
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Old 03-15-2012, 11:09 AM
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There of course is a big difference between a beating and a swat on the bottom. Each individual is different and requires different levels of correction. A simple "good talking to" would work for my older brother, for me it took a trip to the woodshed! We raised 5 kids, one never got a swat, three very seldom but when needed it was there and one we could have spanked everyday and threatened with reform school and it wouldn't have made any difference. By the way, all five grew up just fine and made good citizens. Don't think I would have changed a thing.
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Old 03-15-2012, 12:43 PM
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I only got spanked about a half dozen times as a child by my father. They were spankings and not beatings.

Only once did I make my father so mad that turned red in the face and he didn't say a word to me and he went for a walk.

I think the trick is, not to ever correct a child when you at your wit's end or terribly angry. I guess that must be when most people do it, and because they have little or no self-control, they go too far and it turns into a real beating.

I still have one of my father's belts in the closet- I can never forget the sound it made when it came out of the belt loops. Fortunately, we were very well behaved children- especially in public. I'll never forget my father telling some lady at the store to make her children mind or she was going to get whipped- that was in the 1970's!!!! I don't think he'd get away with that today, although I've seen many parents that should be beaten for substandard parenting.
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Old 03-15-2012, 01:03 PM
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I was never spanked as a kid, though the potential was always there! Dad was a big guy, 6' and around 300 for his entire life. Had a deep and commanding voice too (probably part of what made him a great cop!). Trust me, we did what was expected of us! I have never spanked and of the kids or grandkids, though they would occasionally get a swat to the diaper if they were refusing to listen to their mom/gramma! Me, I'd just grab them by the front of their shirt, lift them to eye level, and let them know their behavior was not acceptable. That seemed effective, even when the boys were in their early teens.....
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Old 03-15-2012, 02:28 PM
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When my kids were little I did on occasion give them the "swat" on the butt. I only did this when the situation really warrented it. When they're small the swat will usually get their attention. I found that corporal punishment doesn't work as they get older. By the teen years you can forget it. Now beating a kid is another matter. My great grandmother used to say "When you beat a child you drive out one demon but drive in another" Enough said.
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Old 03-15-2012, 02:33 PM
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And while were on the subject, why do parents wait until they're in line at Walmart to beat the daylights out of their kids?
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Old 03-15-2012, 02:55 PM
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For some reason, gun folks are keen to do violence to the people they are supposed to love, in the name of discipline.

The only people in the USA that may legally be beaten are children.

I'll repeat that: Only children can be beaten with impunity in this country.

If you feel you have to hit a child, you've lost the battle already.

There should be a special hell for these sanctimonious folks.

Yeah, I know--You were hit as a kid and you turned out just fine!

If you are hitting your kids, are you sure?
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Old 03-15-2012, 03:01 PM
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[QUOTE=BlackAgnes;136407718]
The only people in the USA that may legally be beaten are children.

I'll repeat that: Only children can be beaten with impunity in this country.

QUOTE]

Excuse me.....B.S.!!!!!!!!
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Old 03-15-2012, 03:16 PM
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A-10--

Not so. If anyone hit an adult with a board, he'd be arrested for assault. Hit a kid with the same board, especially in southern schools where it's allowed, and you're OK.

Give me a break!

In my opinion, hitting kids is never justified.

What does it teach them?

If you're bigger, you can hit someone smaller?

The way to solve problems is with violence?

If you really want to confuse a child, tell him you love him and then hit him. Or tell him afterwards.

Come on--it's time to call it like it is. Sure, you can achieve compliance through fear--what's that worth?

Anyway, I realize this is a hot-button issue and we don't all agree on it.

...But if your parents hit you while you were a kid, they were wrong, and if you are hitting your kids, so are you. Not bad people--just wrong.
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Old 03-15-2012, 03:21 PM
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my parents would have been in jail if the laws were the same back then.

I slapped my daughters hand when she was 3 years old. I have never had to touch her since. Most of the time, a look will work (she is 14 now.)

I think it has more to do with the child than the spanking. I was a willful little S**t growing up. I deserved all of those punishments. I know I was not "looking for attention" I just sucked at not getting cought. Talking works very well for a lot of kids, as long as they believe you will follow through on whatever threat you give them. I do believe that with some children you have to give them a painful starting point to get them to believe you. It should be the minimum amount needed to cause them not to want that to happen again.

By the way, that was the first time I understood the meaning of " this is goint to hurt me more than you."
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Old 03-15-2012, 03:27 PM
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I agree it is a hot button issue, one that goes well beyond the mere musings of some internet philosophers. I do feel that people need to know there are consequences for making poor decisions. I have observed people who, without consequences, will put themselves and others in mortal danger. As I said previously, my parents never spanked us. We did however, FEAR the consequences of making bad choices. Fear is a basic motivator, pssibly the principal motivator in a law abiding society. Fear of jail time, fear of tickets, fear of not being accepted by society, the list goes on and on. Don't sell it short! And, don't sell pain short either! Both are primal learning tools, and can result in core learnings.

Discipline and cruelty are not the same thing. And, "beaten with impunity" is a misrepresentation of the topic.
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Old 03-15-2012, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Kanewpadle View Post
I don't agree with the No Spank talk until your blue in the face method...
I don't either, but in our last thread like this Dave said the spanking usually hurt him worse than it did the child. Certainly was true for me, so I did little of it - and things worked out just fine. Main thing is to NEVER do anything when the little jaspers have your blood boiling.
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Old 03-15-2012, 03:58 PM
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I was raised down South. The switch was the weapon of choice down here. OUCH! I don't remember what I got switched for, but I'm sure I had it coming. I grew up alright, but I think my parents' own integrity and sense of right & wrong shaped me more than the switch, but it did get my attention.
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Old 03-15-2012, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smith357 View Post
The spanking never bother me near as much as the lectures.

Man, I know what you mean.
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Old 03-15-2012, 04:36 PM
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I don't know about New York, but here in Georgia we DO have laws against beating a child with impunity. It is called child abuse. Parents are allowed to use reasonable physical force to discipline their children though. There is a difference.
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Old 03-15-2012, 05:57 PM
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The best argument for NOT spanking your kids today is that they'll tell their teachers and you'll have the law and the child welfare agencies on you in a flash, especially in an area where their caseload isn't that great and the local culture doesn't tolerate it.
As frustrating as it can be, it's best to take the High Road. A friend is going through a bitter divorce with his wife, she pulled the old "domestic violence-he hit me bit". The cops took her to the local ER, the examining physician told the cops "She's full of it!" Now she's the one with the credibility problem.

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Old 03-15-2012, 06:08 PM
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FWIW, there is a test used on parents by child psychologists (the name of which I forget) in child custody battles.
The best score you can get is a 9.
If you score a 10, you're faking the test.
As the psychologists will tell you, "If you score a 10, you wouldn't spank your child for running into traffic".
If Boulder, Colorado child psychologists agree there is a point where physical discipline is required, we on the forum can't be all wrong.
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:47 PM
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I think there are degrees of spanking.

So no clear-cut answer.

I generally object to public spanking - especially if its the checkout line at Wal-Mart.

But again, it depends on the situation and context.
Some public spanking is probably well-deserved.

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Old 03-15-2012, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicky4968 View Post
As the psychologists will tell you, "If you score a 10, you wouldn't spank your child for running into traffic".
That's about the only reason I've ever spanked my daughter (imminent physical harm). One swat with the palm of my hand, just enough to get her complete attention. I can count the number of times on one hand, and all were before she was school age. Afterword, we sat down and discussed what had happened and why.

She started in a private high school last fall. As we were filling out the forms, there was a yes/no question about corporal punishment. She said, "You're checking no, right?" I told her that I most certainly wasn't. She couldn't believe it, but I think it set the tone for her behavior at this school (not that she was a problem before). BTW, I know the principal, who administers the punishment (only happens about once a year, school-wide), and he won't do so without a parental conference first.
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Old 03-15-2012, 08:32 PM
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While I was whacked pretty good as a kid (yes I deserved it) and the nuns with the rulers got me also (yes I deserved it), I can say that I have never once struck my daughter in any way. I have thought about it, she as a pre-teen knows I am capable and would do it if needed but so far no need.

I don't think I am doing anything special or right, just lucky so far.
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Old 03-15-2012, 08:48 PM
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People have been spanking their kids since the beginning of time and all of a sudden some expert says it's wrong. Funny when i did something wrong as a child I got spanked by my father and I never did it again. Now that it's considered child abuse what are children like. Check out the juvenile crime rate.

"Spare the rod and spoil the child" No truer statement has ever been made.
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Old 03-15-2012, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackAgnes View Post

...But if your parents hit you while you were a kid, they were wrong, and if you are hitting your kids, so are you. Not bad people--just wrong.
Just wondering, what makes you right?

DW
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Old 03-15-2012, 09:17 PM
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It is simply asinine to expect a creature that's barely verbal to understand and comply with commands on the basis of AT BEST hazily understood theoretical justifications.

Small children need IMMEDIATE and SIMPLE negative stimuli to modify negative behavior.

Anybody who thinks he can morally justify behavior to a two year old is no smarter than the child, and maybe a lot less so.

Don't spank your kid when he steals at 2-3... but don't whine when he gets shot trying to steal with a gun in his hand at 16.
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Old 03-15-2012, 09:26 PM
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Just wondering, what makes you right?

DW
You mean being self righteous and PC doesn't automatically make you right?
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Old 03-15-2012, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackAgnes View Post
A-10--

Not so. If anyone hit an adult with a board, he'd be arrested for assault. Hit a kid with the same board, especially in southern schools where it's allowed, and you're OK.

Give me a break!

In my opinion, hitting kids is never justified.

What does it teach them?

If you're bigger, you can hit someone smaller?

The way to solve problems is with violence?

If you really want to confuse a child, tell him you love him and then hit him. Or tell him afterwards.

Come on--it's time to call it like it is. Sure, you can achieve compliance through fear--what's that worth?

Anyway, I realize this is a hot-button issue and we don't all agree on it.

...But if your parents hit you while you were a kid, they were wrong, and if you are hitting your kids, so are you. Not bad people--just wrong.
This is going to hurt me more than hurt you.
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