"The Newhall Incident" 4 dead LEO's In 4 Minutes

W

Wyatt Burp

Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2008
Messages
6,787
Reaction score
17,741
Location
Northern California
I just found a used book on this 1970 shootout by a Chief John Anderson of the Highway Patrol. Four Ca. highway Patrolman were killed by two ex-cons while being pulled over in SoCal. A citizen saw the third cop go down, ran up, grabbed his revolver and shot the bad guy with the last shot, wounding him. I'm halfway done with this tragic true story that apparently changed police tactics in the future. I think I recall reading something about this also motivating police to practice with .357 ammo in their guns as opposed to .38 specials. I can't remember exactly, though. This book is OK except for one thing that happens alot in non fiction books. There is dialogue injected that in no way could have been told to the author since the people talking were both killed. It makes me question the rest of the book when authors make these assumptions.
There's lots of current and retired LEO's here. What do you recall about this horrible incident? It also brings to mind the 1986 FBI shootout in Miami where things had to be relearned as far as dealing with armed or potentially armed criminals. The author of this book has hinted to overconfidence on the part of the officers killed, but we'll see. Here's a video with interviews of people involved:
http://www.scvtv.com/html/scvhs040510btv.html
 
Last edited:
Register to hide this ad
I just googled the said incident and man-oh-man! Officers were 22-24 years old with under two years with the CHP. I wouldn't guess as overconfidence as much as inexperience. JMO though. Sometimes you wonder about "creative license" with some authors. I read enough on the search to make me not want to learn more of this story. Enjoy your read............:)
 
Massad Ayoob did an excellent write-up many years ago for American Handgunner. Lots of lessons learned for the cops, and recognition for an armed citizen who managed to dent the forehead of one of the killers with a .38 S&W round from a surplus Enfield.

Both killers wound up committing suicide - Twinning at the scene of a hostage situation, and Davis in his prison cell many years later.

http://www.chp.ca.gov/memorial/newhall.html
 
Last edited:
I remember the Newhall Incident,and like many other hard learned lessons,including the Miami shootout,it did cause much needed changes to be made in armament,training,and tactics. Something like this usually happens about every 20 to 25 years that has a tendency to quickly awaken the sleepers.
One civilian near the scene took one of the downed officer's revolvers and fired one shot at the perpetrators,probably single action,but missed.This incident took place during the beginning of what was to become a tumultuous era for law enforcement nationwide.
Although training and preparedness is so much better now than then,there have been many lives lost in the process of getting where we are today.
We must remember that even as law enforcement continues to improve,so does the criminal element.We can never train enough to be too far ahead of them.
Miami,Waco,Newhall,the Soledad Brothers,and all the way back to the OK Corral,has given us lessons that should not be forgotton, and the high profile gunfights of the past should always be part of the curriculum for police academy recruits,along with the politics of the era.
These are what brought us to the point where we are today,with current weapons and tactical training.Unfortunately,there will be more to be learned and to prepare for in the future.
 
Last edited:
I lived in the area at the time. Ate at that resturant. I remember the next day well. I was in a gun shop and buying a new s&w model 60. There was a "POed" off duty chip there that I was talking to about it. Of course he knew them. To took me aside and asked me if I wanted to take that gun home with me-------
 
I started my LE career in the mid 70s. The "Newhall Incident" was still raw and fresh. It had a profound effect on firearms training in the West. The old slow fire target training was eventually replaced with training more related to real world needs and situations. The phrase "what you do in training, you will do on the street" finally gained acceptance.

During my time in LE we went from shooting 38 wadcutters only during qualification a few times a year to training with the round you would actually carry on duty. We added actual training to the shoots instead of just shooting for score. Night shooting and shoot, don't shoot training evolved around that time.

That horrible crime resulted in life saving changes to LE training that carries over to today.
 
I'm not a LEO, but began my career as an EMT in early 1975, and a lot of cops were still talking about the lessons learned from this tragic event. I remember one older officer talking bitterly about how he had seen spent brass in the hands and pockets of officers who had been killed in shoot-outs, and how the rangemaster and administration would give you a hard time if you didn't turn in all of your brass in good condition at target practice. I found that incredible - throwing dollars to save a dime has never made any sense to me. As I was soon to learn from the Army - the more you sweat in training, the less you'll bleed in battle.

Regards,

Dave
 
Miami,Waco,Newhall
Click to expand...

I started my career in that era, 1974. Ended up being a firearms instructer and worked on officer safety.

Those were all extremely rare incidents. We (I) stress more on training based on the "Onion Field" something that is much more common.

Common as to, most incidents will occur at traffic stops and domestic disturbances.

I stressed training with you service revolver/pistol. NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN.

We pushed weapon retention, weapon takeaways, and drawing and firing showing even if the bandit has the drop on you, the advantage was in your court.

Even if you have a long gun, (rifel or shotgun) chances are its in the car. You don't take it to the drivers door to write a ticket. You don't carry it to the family disturbance. Its left in the car which isn't (or shouldn't be) parked in front of the house.

When I was an FTO I made my rookys read the Onion Field and Bill Jordon's NO SECOND PLACE WINNER.

I liked Jordon's idea that a cop should practice drawing and getting off the one shot fast and accuratly.

An example: We would go to the range. One guy would draw and point his gun at a target. He was told when he saw you start to draw he was to fire at his target. A huge majority of the time the one doing the drawing got his round off before the one who had the drop on his target.

The idea is to draw and shoot while the other guy is talking.

It's kind of like breathing while shooting. We know that you hold your breath, either on purpose or unconsciencly while shooting. You can't pull the trigger while breathing. Same thing, you can talk and pull the trigger while talking, you have to stop, both breathing and talking the instent you pull the trigger.

Plus no one expects someone to draw his revolver/pistol while they have a gun pointed at them. You have the avantage of supprise.

Same with weapon take aways, get them talking the rip the gun from their hand (assuming your at bad breath distance). No one expects it, suprise puts the ball in your court.

Sure if you have the time, and you know what you're getting into, take a long gun, but you never know. You hardly ever know what you're getting into. You always have your service revolver, practice, never stop practicing. Confidence in you service revolver and you're abilities goes a long ways with it comes to "officer safety".

And something else I always stressed, practice with one hand. Everyone teaches and practices two hand shooting, but in my 20 years of LE, I can't think of one time I drew my revolver (not fired it, but drew it to have it ready) that I had my other hand free.

There is always something in one hand, Ticket book, door knob, flashligth, another bandit, mirror (for building searches), etc etc.

And nothing is more useless then a shotgun or rifle while you're trying to handcuff a bandit.
 
Last edited:
kraigwy said:
I started my career in that era, 1974. Ended up being a firearms instructer and worked on officer safety.

Those were all extremely rare incidents. We (I) stress more on training based on the "Onion Field" something that is much more common.

Common as to, most incidents will occur at traffic stops and domestic disturbances.

I stressed training with you service revolver/pistol. NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN.

We pushed weapon retention, weapon takeaways, and drawing and firing showing even if the bandit has the drop on you, the advantage was in your court.

Even if you have a long gun, (rifel or shotgun) chances are its in the car. You don't take it to the drivers door to write a ticket. You don't carry it to the family disturbance. Its left in the car which isn't (or shouldn't be) parked in front of the house.

When I was an FTO I made my rookys read the Onion Field and Bill Jordon's NO SECOND PLACE WINNER.

I liked Jordon's idea that a cop should practice drawing and getting off the one shot fast and accuratly.

An example: We would go to the range. One guy would draw and point his gun at a target. He was told when he saw you start to draw he was to fire at his target. A huge majority of the time the one doing the drawing got his round off before the one who had the drop on his target.

The idea is to draw and shoot while the other guy is talking.

It's kind of like breathing while shooting. We know that you hold your breath, either on purpose or unconsciencly while shooting. You can't pull the trigger while breathing. Same thing, you can talk and pull the trigger while talking, you have to stop, both breathing and talking the instent you pull the trigger.

Plus no one expects someone to draw his revolver/pistol while they have a gun pointed at them. You have the avantage of supprise.

Same with weapon take aways, get them talking the rip the gun from their hand (assuming your at bad breath distance). No one expects it, suprise puts the ball in your court.

Sure if you have the time, and you know what you're getting into, take a long gun, but you never know. You hardly ever know what you're getting into. You always have your service revolver, practice, never stop practicing. Confidence in you service revolver and you're abilities goes a long ways with it comes to "officer safety".

And something else I always stressed, practice with one hand. Everyone teaches and practices two hand shooting, but in my 20 years of LE, I can't think of one time I drew my revolver (not fired it, but drew it to have it ready) that I had my other hand free.

There is always something in one hand, Ticket book, door knob, flashligth, another bandit, mirror (for building searches), etc etc.

And nothing is more useless then a shotgun or rifle while you're trying to handcuff a bandit.
Click to expand...
Good job.One hand shooting is highly likely,and in many cases training in that area is too often overlooked.
 
I remember when the FBI started putting on one day "street survival" seminars around 1974 and this was covered. I was just a young troop then. There was another incident involving a couple of Border Patrol officers named Newton and Azrak about the same time; they were taken hostage at a checkpoint in southern CA and executed.

An outfit called Calibre Press took the initiative starting around 1979 or so and put on 2 and 3 day seminars on officer survival. They were long on slide and video presentations, and the first hour or so of the program showed more pictures of dead cops than anyone wanted to see. In later years audio and video recordings of situations gone bad were the stuff of nightmares. It was a real attention getter and motivator; I still have some of the books and notes from those classes. Those programs probably saved an awful lot of lives, along with body armor and better tactics.

It's interesting to see how much attention gets focussed on who has the coolest gun even today instead of mindset, training, and tactics.
 
kraigwy said:
Even if you have a long gun, (rifel or shotgun) chances are its in the car. You don't take it to the drivers door to write a ticket. You don't carry it to the family disturbance. Its left in the car which isn't (or shouldn't be) parked in front of the house.
Click to expand...

That got me curious. Why not? Where should you park it?

In the 20 years that I've lived here, I've had cops here 5 times. Neighbors piled garbage in my yard, someone played mailbox baseball, air compressor was stolen, tag was stolen off my trailer and a dying cordless-phone battery self-dialed 911.

All five times they parked in front of the house. Made sense to me.
 
In the west the speedloaders didn't gain acceptance until the mid to late 70s and early 80s. We had to hide our speedloaders in our pockets at the two agencies I worked for at that time. Around 1978 my last department finally acknowledged speedloaders as a good thing an allowed belt carry.

I don't recall Newhall having much to do with speedloader use. I think it was more of a better technology thing as the newer designs of speedloaders worked well and there was no reason not to use them. Speedloaders have been around since before the last century but were most popular from the late 70s until the flow of autos into LE.
 
Alpo said:
That got me curious. Why not? Where should you park it?

In the 20 years that I've lived here, I've had cops here 5 times. Neighbors piled garbage in my yard, someone played mailbox baseball, air compressor was stolen, tag was stolen off my trailer and a dying cordless-phone battery self-dialed 911.

All five times they parked in front of the house. Made sense to me.
Click to expand...

The calls you made would be considered low risk. Parking at the house to meet the citizen is not uncommon. Disturbances and alarms however require more caution. Best to park a few houses away and walk up so you can see and hear what's going on, and the people in the house don't see you pull up and start shooting at you.
 
kraigwy said:
I started my career in that era, 1974. Ended up being a firearms instructer and worked on officer safety.

Those were all extremely rare incidents. We (I) stress more on training based on the "Onion Field" something that is much more common.

Common as to, most incidents will occur at traffic stops and domestic disturbances.

I stressed training with you service revolver/pistol. NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN.

We pushed weapon retention, weapon takeaways, and drawing and firing showing even if the bandit has the drop on you, the advantage was in your court.

Even if you have a long gun, (rifel or shotgun) chances are its in the car. You don't take it to the drivers door to write a ticket. You don't carry it to the family disturbance. Its left in the car which isn't (or shouldn't be) parked in front of the house.

When I was an FTO I made my rookys read the Onion Field and Bill Jordon's NO SECOND PLACE WINNER.

I liked Jordon's idea that a cop should practice drawing and getting off the one shot fast and accuratly.

An example: We would go to the range. One guy would draw and point his gun at a target. He was told when he saw you start to draw he was to fire at his target. A huge majority of the time the one doing the drawing got his round off before the one who had the drop on his target.

The idea is to draw and shoot while the other guy is talking.

It's kind of like breathing while shooting. We know that you hold your breath, either on purpose or unconsciencly while shooting. You can't pull the trigger while breathing. Same thing, you can talk and pull the trigger while talking, you have to stop, both breathing and talking the instent you pull the trigger.

Plus no one expects someone to draw his revolver/pistol while they have a gun pointed at them. You have the avantage of supprise.

Same with weapon take aways, get them talking the rip the gun from their hand (assuming your at bad breath distance). No one expects it, suprise puts the ball in your court.

Sure if you have the time, and you know what you're getting into, take a long gun, but you never know. You hardly ever know what you're getting into. You always have your service revolver, practice, never stop practicing. Confidence in you service revolver and you're abilities goes a long ways with it comes to "officer safety".

And something else I always stressed, practice with one hand. Everyone teaches and practices two hand shooting, but in my 20 years of LE, I can't think of one time I drew my revolver (not fired it, but drew it to have it ready) that I had my other hand free.

There is always something in one hand, Ticket book, door knob, flashligth, another bandit, mirror (for building searches), etc etc.

And nothing is more useless then a shotgun or rifle while you're trying to handcuff a bandit.
Click to expand...


Nice post, good job.
 
S. Hammer said:
The calls you made would be considered low risk. Parking at the house to meet the citizen is not uncommon. Disturbances and alarms however require more caution. Best to park a few houses away and walk up so you can see and hear what's going on, and the people in the house don't see you pull up and start shooting at you.
Click to expand...

We had 2 Deputy's killed locally answering a rural domestic call. The Deputy's drove up to the house 5 minutes apart and got shot before they exited their cars fully by a lump with a rifle.
 
Originally Posted by kraigwy
Even if you have a long gun, (rifel or shotgun) chances are its in the car. You don't take it to the drivers door to write a ticket. You don't carry it to the family disturbance. Its left in the car which isn't (or shouldn't be) parked in front of the house.

That got me curious. Why not? Where should you park it?
Click to expand...

Domestic disturbances is one of the worst calls you can go on. You never know what you're getting into.

You park quietly down the street, out of sight. You walk up to the residence listening and observing. Expect the worse.

If the bandit is intent on bad behavier, you'll have a better chance. If you just pull up to the house, and the intent is bad behavier, you're stuck.

Along the same lines, if disturbances when the things go bad, its not normally a shooting situation (but you never know) but there is a good chance you're gonna end up in a wrestling match, a long gun will be in the way.

But as I said, that's the life of a street cop. And for the street cop a long gun would be more in the way then anything else.
 
Google "Hayward Brown, John Boyd and Mark Bethune". Any Atlanta, Georgia cops remember Boyd and Bethune?
 
I remember training we received from larger agencies using the Newhall information. I seem to remember a LE training film. It was a violent, ugly incident. There was also some training regarding a deputy sheriff called, if I remember right, the Norco incident. It was about a bank robbery and the subsequent loss of an officer. These two incidents were used to train officers for a long time.
 
I was still in rookie school when speedloaders were first authorized for my organization, At the time we carried S&W Model 10's with 4" heavy barrels. Speedloaders were NOT issued but those of us then "buffs" hit the local blue vendor forthwith. Only ones then available (to the best of my knowledge) were those made by the Dade Screw Company. (Might not be exact name of company.) They were cylinders that were surrounded by a spring. Rounds were held at the primer end and pushed past the spring to load. Functional? Yes. Perfect? No. But better than drop pouches, for certain.

BTW, at the time we still carried 158 ball ammo. Hollow point ammo did follow soon thereafter. Do not recall what that was exactly.

Be safe.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

R
  • Locked
Original Grips & Holsters, Frequent Daily Additions,come and visit, buy me a beer
21 22 23
Replies
457
Views
278K
robbt
R

Latest posts

Back
Top