My father was a B-24 pilot. 8th Air Force, 2nd Air Division, 467th Bombardment Group (Heavy), RAF Rackheath.

Two stories.

He stayed in the Air Corp/Air Force after the war. In 1946, at a base in Texas, he and his crew were in base ops filing their flight plan. A colonel pulled rank on him, and took his plane. When the plane took off, it exploded in a fireball, killing all on board. My father went directly to his CO's office, and resigned his commission. He remained a very religious man throughout his life.

Having left the corp, he want to graduate school at UK. He had a math professor who was German. Indeed, my father had bombed the town the professor was from. He went to the professor to apologize, not for doing his duty, but sorry for the situation that forced him to do it.

With a heavy accent, the professor said, "My town was never bombed."

So somewhere in Germany, there are graves in a town for people who died because of an Air Corp error. And the people of the professor's town never knew that they were slated for destruction, that they lived on due to an error.

Debris from both the USS Thresher and the USS Scorpion were found by Robert Ballard under the guise of searching for the Titanic.
While the Thresher sank due to its own problems it was suspected and proven the Russians sank the Scorpion. The Russian Admiral involved actually wanted to sink the Nautilus!
I have always been fascinated with Submarines and the Submariners who serve on them.
I believe I have been on every Sub that is open to the public including the U-505 in Chicago.

Thanks for the link. I never knew this much about the tragedy.

Rest in Peace gents.

Ordy here wason the big O. I dont remember what years he said he was on? Anyway,when I was still volunteering research time with our local CC Museum of Sci and History--the big O--was only about one hundred or so yards away and you could see the workers gutting her so she could be used as an artificial reef. Anyway,while the O was being gutted--she was only about half a mile or soaway from where the USS Lexington is permanently moored.

The SubSafe quality assurance program was created because of the loss of the Thresher. An old EB engineer told me once that, due to noncombat causes, the navy lost over a dozen diesel boats between the First World War and the loss of the Thresher.

No boat built under the SubSafe program has been lost (the Scorpion was built before the Thresher).

First and foremost:
To the crew of the USS Thresher SSN-593 on Eternal Patrol; Fair Winds and Following Seas Shipmates.....


As far as:

Quote:

.....it was suspected and proven the Russians sank the Scorpion.

WADR, proven? Hardly. There are several legitimate on their face competing theories/findings…old and new, official and otherwise, as to why exactly the Scorpion sank…none of them have been "proven". Personally…though I don’t dismiss any of the possibilities out of hand, I do look upon new revelations contained in books with caution. I do wish the Navy had convened a new Board of Inquiry…as the families requested just a few years ago, though I don’t know where that would have brought us.

FWIW, I've visited a few subs myself ...but more to the point, months after the Scorpion sank I enlisted in the USN @ 17. Following Boot Camp, BP&E, MM"A" and Submarine Schools I was assigned to the USS Skipjack SSN-585...yes, the First in Class...and Sister Boat, to the USS Scorpion SSN-589. We, in the Submarine Service, more particularly SUBRON 6 and even more so the Skipjack Class boats, were VERY aware of the reports, allegations and rumors involving loss of the Scorpion. We certainly speculated ourselves...but only among ourselves. The subject was…after all, important to us as Scorpion's overall mission profile had been the same as what ours was then. And yes, when operating against the Soviet Navy...especially their submarines, we DID treat them as hostile...just in case . Hey, it was a "rough" game.

While I don't pretend to possess any current double super-secret NSA classified information, riding the near twin of the Scorpion...with the same operational "issues" , conducting the same kind of classified missions against the same Soviet...mostly, submarines, in the same geographic locations...to say nothing of the same specific Type Training and OPFOR duties into 1973 provided...at very least, "perspective". I've paid attention since as well BTW, hoping for closure for the families of the Scorpion crew. Perhaps someday.....

Sub-moa, Read the book All Hands Down, I think the idea of the Russians sinking the Scorpion is no longer an idea. The evidence from the Ballard mission and actual statements from former Russian Naval officers and several of ours verify,,,,They did it!. The Scorpion was sunk in retaliation for the disappearance of Soviet Sub K-129.

Growing up in the Norfolk area I remember when the Scorpion was lost and how sad it was to see the photos of the families standing in a lite rain waiting for their sailors and the boat that was never going to return.

You mean this All Hands Down?



I did say "I've paid attention since as well"...I have . This...and other similar books, do not "prove"...they propose. We obviously embrace different definitions of the word "prove" my friend. Believe what you will...allow me to do the same .....

sub-moa, For some reason your original post showed up white and a bit hard to read.
That's the book! Very well written.
I missed your statement in regards,no offense meant
Thank you for your service with the Submarines!

No offense taken my friend, glad to see someone so interested in the subject .....

A proud tradition.



Rest in peace brothers.

__________________
Shoot fast & live long
Warren

I reported to the Periscope Shop in Groton in '83 (NSSF/NLON), part of our QA school included listening to the audio tapes of Thresher breaking up. I got it, SUBSAFE and rigid procedural compliance saved lives.

At the Submarine Ball, listening to the Tolling of the Boats is a somber experience...

ETA: SUBSAFE is a rigid set of controls that actually was adopted by NASA for spacecraft. When I did an assembly, I had a thoroughly reviewed and approved controlled work package that had torque diagrams, signature blocks, places to record the torque wrench data, an independent QA inspector and authorized testing/re-certification criteria to ensure that the SUBSAFE boundary had been re-established beyond a shadow of a doubt. The history and pedigree of each component was known and documented from cradle to grave.
Water in the people tank is bad, number of surfaces = number of dives...

Oh, and for what it's worth, my buddy and I overhauled the scopes on the Nautilus when she was turned in to a museum in Groton.

If I remember correctly, the wreckage was found fairly quickly, within months of the sinking. I think I have a copy of LIFE or National Geographic from that era with an article on it somewhere around here.

My Dad spent 38 years with the Navy as a civilian chemical engineer, and for the first 22 years or so he worked on nuclear submarines. He went on sea trials and shakedown cruises regularly, and was at sea, for periods of a week or two at a time, about six months out of the year when we were kids.

He was a Depression kid who grew up in abject poverty. He was supporting his disabled parents and his little sister at age 14, by driving an ice truck illegally after school. From that background, he went on to put himself through Johns Hopkins University. He had three patents awarded to him, and was one of the designers of the CO2 air scrubbers that enable nuclear subs to stay undersea for extended periods.

He loved his three sons, and he loved the US Navy. On his desk he had a photocube with a picture of my brothers and me on one side, with the question "What have you done for them today?" written in the margin of the photo. On the other side of the cube was a photo of the Admiral he reported to, with the question "What have you done for the fleet today?" written on it. He was a good guy....