Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > General Topics > The Lounge
Forum Register Expert Commentary Members List


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-30-2012, 02:50 AM
RPNelson's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 60
Likes: 37
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Default .22 Luger

Years back I bought a .22LR that looked just like a german luger. The firing pin was damaged and I ended up selling it. However,I cannot remember who made it for the life of me. This was after I got out of the service so I am talking like 25-30 yrs ago. My question is..does anyone have an idea what kind of gun I am talking about? I realize I dont have much information to help out, but I would really like to find another one...it was a blast shooting it.
__________________
SW9VE, Tactical 12GA, S&W 22A

Last edited by RPNelson; 04-30-2012 at 02:57 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-30-2012, 02:56 AM
chud333's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Indiana
Posts: 4,217
Likes: 6,638
Liked 3,548 Times in 1,419 Posts
Default

Maybe a Stoeger Luger. My brother had one and i inherited
from his widow when he passed. Run a search on Gunbroker
for Stoeger Luger and see if thats it.


chuck
__________________
They hold no Quarter
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-30-2012, 05:13 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Arizona
Posts: 784
Likes: 15
Liked 154 Times in 97 Posts
Default

It was an Erma Luger, imported by Stoeger from the late 60s through the late 70s, if I recall correctly. They had a cast pot metal frame, and varied in quality from poor to fair. Parts are no longer available, and were tough to find even when they were in production. Interesting little guns, primarily due to their resemblance to a real Luger. If I recall correctly, Erma was a German company, don't remember what the name stood for (Erma Works or something similar). Some are probably still around, although finding one in good condition may be difficult.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-30-2012, 07:11 AM
JcMack's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Deepest, darkest, Indiana
Posts: 4,332
Likes: 624
Liked 1,155 Times in 499 Posts
Default

Yeah. There was one for sale at Cabelas down the street a couple weeks ago. $250
__________________
Paint it black
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-30-2012, 08:06 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 276
Likes: 21
Liked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Default

None of them never seem to work consistantly and are ammo sensitive.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-30-2012, 08:22 AM
enfield's Avatar
US Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cornfield County TN
Posts: 1,044
Likes: 6
Liked 38 Times in 20 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 310Pilot View Post
It was an Erma Luger, imported by Stoeger from the late 60s through the late 70s, if I recall correctly. They had a cast pot metal frame, and varied in quality from poor to fair. Parts are no longer available, and were tough to find even when they were in production. Interesting little guns, primarily due to their resemblance to a real Luger. If I recall correctly, Erma was a German company, don't remember what the name stood for (Erma Works or something similar). Some are probably still around, although finding one in good condition may be difficult.
ERMA Werke, with the ERMA standing for Erfurter Maschinenfabrik.
__________________
VIVERE MILITARE EST
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-30-2012, 11:13 AM
RPNelson's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 60
Likes: 37
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Default

Thanks for the help...sounds like maybe I should have held onto it? Hi Sue...lol What city..maybe its still there. Probrably a nightmare to get it sent to me..Just a thought tho, there is a gander here wonder if they would ship to them so I can buy it? hmmm
__________________
SW9VE, Tactical 12GA, S&W 22A

Last edited by RPNelson; 04-30-2012 at 11:26 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-30-2012, 11:23 AM
deadin's Avatar
SWCA Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ocean Shores, WA, USA
Posts: 3,118
Likes: 35
Liked 650 Times in 316 Posts
Default

Most of the Erma Lugers I've seen function so poorly that they are more curiosities than collectibles.
__________________
Dean
SWCA #680
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-30-2012, 12:27 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 994
Likes: 53
Liked 221 Times in 146 Posts
Default

I see a bunch of them for sale on Gunbroker. Prices range from $125 to $1,850!

Several people selling firing pins too.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-30-2012, 12:55 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 11
Likes: 3
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

My son has one. It looks great but shoots bad. I think the problem might be that European .22's were higher power than American. Therefore, our under powered ammunition doesn't work the action correctly.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-30-2012, 02:24 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Arizona
Posts: 784
Likes: 15
Liked 154 Times in 97 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by enfield View Post
ERMA Werke, with the ERMA standing for Erfurter Maschinenfabrik.
Ah yes, it came to me earlier today. It was 0 Dark 30 when I read the original post, and I couldn't remember fully.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-30-2012, 02:39 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Arizona
Posts: 784
Likes: 15
Liked 154 Times in 97 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frederick View Post
My son has one. It looks great but shoots bad. I think the problem might be that European .22's were higher power than American. Therefore, our under powered ammunition doesn't work the action correctly.
I used to get a lot of them brought in for repair when I owned a gun shop (in the 70s, while they were in production). The problems stemmed from poor quality parts and manufacturing, rather than under powered ammo. In fact, the most frequent problems were broken firing pins and broken toggle arms - more powerful ammo would have broken those parts even faster. They looked neat, but were completely unreliable. Cheap cast parts, poor tolerances and a lack of quality control were the culprits. I worked on one my brother had for a long time in an attempt to get it to work reliably, and finally gave up, the basic components were just too bad, and pot metal castings don't respond well to machining. They had a poor reputation when they were new, age hasn't improved them. Too bad, they would have sold like hot cakes if they had been decently made and reliable guns.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-30-2012, 02:58 PM
mike from st pete's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: st pete fla
Posts: 1,275
Likes: 790
Liked 378 Times in 216 Posts
Default

ERMA made it in 380ACP too.
They were a real carp shooters too.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-30-2012, 03:11 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,410
Likes: 44
Liked 848 Times in 477 Posts
Default

Bob's Gun Parts has parts for the .22 Erma Lugers
There's 3 different variations of the .22cal 'Luger'
There is also a 22cal version of their 380/32 Erma Luger ,,KGP-69 .22

You have to make sure which model you have as not all parts interchange.

http://www.gun-parts.com/index.html/
scroll down and click on 'Erma'
All the different models are listed in among the parts headings. He just bunches them together, but when you email specify which model you have.

I've bought parts from them to fix up one of the 380 Erma Lugers quite a while back. Never worked on one of the .22cal versions.

Numrich might well have parts also, but I' never checked then.
The 380/32 cal pistols weren't to bad.

Last edited by 2152hq; 04-30-2012 at 03:18 PM. Reason: link
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-30-2012, 07:22 PM
bobf's Avatar
US Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NW Florida
Posts: 560
Likes: 319
Liked 292 Times in 105 Posts
Default

The ERMA and Stoeger were different. This is my Stoeger.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	lugera.jpg
Views:	61
Size:	78.3 KB
ID:	73936   Click image for larger version

Name:	luger.jpg
Views:	33
Size:	52.3 KB
ID:	73937  
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-30-2012, 09:49 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,410
Likes: 44
Liked 848 Times in 477 Posts
Default

I thought the Erma Lugers were banned from import in '68 (didn't make the point total needed).

Stoeger then imported the Erma parts, but not the the receiver, after '68. The new receiver being made in the USA to get around the import problem and the Stoeger pistols were assembled (made) in the USA.

Stoeger Corp could legally put 'Luger' on the pistol as they owned the rights to the name in the US since the 1920's when they were the sole importer here.
..and then again I may be all wrong!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #17  
Old 04-30-2012, 10:05 PM
bobf's Avatar
US Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NW Florida
Posts: 560
Likes: 319
Liked 292 Times in 105 Posts
Default

Thanks for the explanation.
Bob
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05-01-2012, 12:13 AM
RPNelson's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 60
Likes: 37
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Default

Thx guys...kinda glad I got rid of it. It was fun while I had it.
__________________
SW9VE, Tactical 12GA, S&W 22A
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 05-01-2012, 09:47 AM
windjammer's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Mid-Tennessee
Posts: 396
Likes: 1
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

I had one, Erma, years ago. Didn't keep it long. It was a jam-o-matic. Paid $65 for it.
__________________
Regards,
Windjammer
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 05-01-2012, 09:53 AM
RPNelson's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 60
Likes: 37
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Default

Thats how much I paid for mine..then the firing pin was wore and off center so I sold it for 100.00. I got my moneys worth and made a profit. No complaints here. It was fun while I had it...
__________________
SW9VE, Tactical 12GA, S&W 22A
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 05-01-2012, 10:09 AM
dant's Avatar
SWCA Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 1,080
Likes: 13
Liked 110 Times in 65 Posts
Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally Posted by 310Pilot View Post
I used to get a lot of them brought in for repair when I owned a gun shop (in the 70s, while they were in production). The problems stemmed from poor quality parts and manufacturing, rather than under powered ammo. In fact, the most frequent problems were broken firing pins and broken toggle arms - more powerful ammo would have broken those parts even faster. They looked neat, but were completely unreliable. Cheap cast parts, poor tolerances and a lack of quality control were the culprits. I worked on one my brother had for a long time in an attempt to get it to work reliably, and finally gave up, the basic components were just too bad, and pot metal castings don't respond well to machining. They had a poor reputation when they were new, age hasn't improved them. Too bad, they would have sold like hot cakes if they had been decently made and reliable guns.
same here we went through LOTS of them, and they mainly got the nickname "jamamatic"...they came in either alloy or steel construction if I recall correctly,,,the alloy ones looked like '****' in little or no time with any amount of handling.................
__________________
dan
NRA Benefactor,OGCA,PMA
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 05-01-2012, 10:48 AM
JcMack's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Deepest, darkest, Indiana
Posts: 4,332
Likes: 624
Liked 1,155 Times in 499 Posts
Default

I recall when you could buy a real Luger for $65 from the pages of Outdoor Life. A friend of mine bought an MP40 for under $100 from a magazine ad. Slugged barrel. Then bought a barrel from another ad. Butt that was about `1960.
__________________
Paint it black
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 05-01-2012, 12:44 PM
RPNelson's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 60
Likes: 37
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Default

Would still like to have one but would never spend 250.00 for something thats not reliable and going to last. If I could find one in good shape for 100.00 I would consider it.
__________________
SW9VE, Tactical 12GA, S&W 22A
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 05-01-2012, 03:08 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: winston salem nc
Posts: 1,150
Likes: 1,063
Liked 610 Times in 310 Posts
Default

I had a Erma m1 carbine in.22lr.
it looked pretty good and if memory serves me didn`t shoot bad at all. But that was 42 years ago.
I don`t remember if I sold or traded it away,but anyway it`s long gone.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 05-01-2012, 03:51 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 3,352
Likes: 367
Liked 2,020 Times in 752 Posts
Default

Dana Safety Supply in Greensboro, NC will have one in stock shortly. I know because I loaded the box into the vehicle, read the inventory list taped to the top. "Luger .22" is all it said. There were a few S&W 19's and a 36 on the list. Check with them tomorrow.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #26  
Old 05-02-2012, 10:11 AM
RPNelson's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 60
Likes: 37
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Default Dana Supply Alanta

Hi, I checked and as far as handguns go they are only showing Glocks. Maybe it was a special order...
__________________
SW9VE, Tactical 12GA, S&W 22A
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 05-02-2012, 10:22 AM
RPNelson's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 60
Likes: 37
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Default Grip

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobf View Post
The ERMA and Stoeger were different. This is my Stoeger.
Looks like the one I had but the grip was different...mine was a checkered grip, best way to explain it.
__________________
SW9VE, Tactical 12GA, S&W 22A
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 05-02-2012, 10:23 AM
RPNelson's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 60
Likes: 37
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPNelson View Post
Hi, I checked and as far as handguns go they are only showing Glocks. Maybe it was a special order...
will check again...
__________________
SW9VE, Tactical 12GA, S&W 22A
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 05-02-2012, 12:22 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 398
Likes: 1,177
Liked 70 Times in 54 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2152hq View Post
I thought the Erma Lugers were banned from import in '68 (didn't make the point total needed).

Stoeger then imported the Erma parts, but not the the receiver, after '68. The new receiver being made in the USA to get around the import problem and the Stoeger pistols were assembled (made) in the USA.

Stoeger Corp could legally put 'Luger' on the pistol as they owned the rights to the name in the US since the 1920's when they were the sole importer here.
..and then again I may be all wrong!
The Stoeger Luger was a bit different than the ERMA. No parts will interchange and the Stoeger was a better quality pistol overall. I can remember both being available new in the 70's and I think into the early 80's. The ERMA's were big enough to qualify under the "point" system for import, many had a thumbrest "target" grip which added import points. Have worked on both, a broken Stoeger can usually be fixed, a broken ERMA is best made into a wall hanger.
Stoeger does own the rights to use the "Luger" name as they copyrighted it @ 1920 which is why none of the copies that have appeared could put the Luger name on their guns. Even mauser (an original producer of Lugers) had to market theirs as the "Parabellum" pistol back in the 70's.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 05-02-2012, 06:52 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 3,352
Likes: 367
Liked 2,020 Times in 752 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPNelson View Post
will check again...
Hi, that gun was going to the Greensboro, NC store, not the Buford/Sugar Hill store.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 05-02-2012, 06:57 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,410
Likes: 44
Liked 848 Times in 477 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by desi2358 View Post
The Stoeger Luger was a bit different than the ERMA. No parts will interchange and the Stoeger was a better quality pistol overall. I can remember both being available new in the 70's and I think into the early 80's. The ERMA's were big enough to qualify under the "point" system for import, many had a thumbrest "target" grip which added import points. Have worked on both, a broken Stoeger can usually be fixed, a broken ERMA is best made into a wall hanger.
Stoeger does own the rights to use the "Luger" name as they copyrighted it @ 1920 which is why none of the copies that have appeared could put the Luger name on their guns. Even mauser (an original producer of Lugers) had to market theirs as the "Parabellum" pistol back in the 70's.
Thanks for the correct info & untangeling the two!
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 05-02-2012, 09:45 PM
bobf's Avatar
US Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NW Florida
Posts: 560
Likes: 319
Liked 292 Times in 105 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by desi2358 View Post
The Stoeger Luger was a bit different than the ERMA. No parts will interchange and the Stoeger was a better quality pistol overall. I can remember both being available new in the 70's and I think into the early 80's. The ERMA's were big enough to qualify under the "point" system for import, many had a thumbrest "target" grip which added import points. Have worked on both, a broken Stoeger can usually be fixed, a broken ERMA is best made into a wall hanger.
Stoeger does own the rights to use the "Luger" name as they copyrighted it @ 1920 which is why none of the copies that have appeared could put the Luger name on their guns. Even mauser (an original producer of Lugers) had to market theirs as the "Parabellum" pistol back in the 70's.
Thanks for the info I appreciate all of you sharing your knowledge.
Bob
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 05-03-2012, 12:57 AM
A10's Avatar
A10 A10 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Auburn WA
Posts: 7,994
Likes: 13,125
Liked 5,643 Times in 2,578 Posts
Default

I've got one sittin' in the safe....somebody gave it to dad in the 70s, and he gave it to me. I've fired it several times, it would jam or misfire once in a while. It looks pretty good, though, and I have a nice holster with it. No real attachment to it, though....
__________________
Now isn't that special
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
22lr, 380, cabelas, carbine, smith & wesson, smith and wesson

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
The Lounge Thread, .22 Luger in General Topics; Years back I bought a .22LR that looked just like a german luger. The firing pin was damaged and I ...
LinkBacks (?)
LinkBack to this Thread: http://smith-wessonforum.com/lounge/247181-22-luger.html
Posted By For Type Date
22 Luger | www.HobbyPlow.com This thread Refback 11-10-2012 07:05 PM
Thread stoeger 22 luger | GunBroker.com Message Forums | BoardReader This thread Refback 08-31-2012 01:55 AM

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Luger quneur Smith & Wesson - The Wish List 23 08-28-2014 10:44 AM
Help with a Luger? english S&W-Smithing 3 12-14-2011 08:24 PM
WTT for a Luger vrichard GUNS - For Sale or Trade 0 05-15-2010 01:44 PM
Help with a Luger moosedog The Lounge 10 04-18-2009 05:22 PM
9mm & 9mm Luger? Buckwacker Ammo 5 03-01-2009 03:04 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:25 PM.


S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2015
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)