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06-02-2012, 09:37 PM
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"Enemy at the gates" revisited!
One of my favorite movies of the WWII era was "Enemy at the gates" starring Jude Law as Russian sniper Vasily Grigoryevich Zaitsev. He was an actual character in real life, and he and Ivan Sidorenko were well known as snipers during and after the war. I was intrigued by the weaponry, and in particular the Mosin-Nagant 91/30 sniper rifle used to combat a rival German sniper. I've always thought it would nice to have an example of this gun, which probably was the preeminent sniper weapon of the war.
I found one today, and I believe it to be a good and genuine example of the breed. It was imported into this county wrapped in paper and covered with cosmoline from stores of Russian surplus rifles. It fires the 7.62mmx54R cartridge, roughly equivalent to our .30-06 in power. The condition overall is excellent, with the rifle, scope and bore showing very little use, if any at all.
I took some shots of the rifle today, and I'd like those of you with some knowledge of Russian small arms to give me your opinions on authenticity. Serial numbers do match throughout.
The rifle serial number AB431 is found on the bolt, the top of the barrel, the scope mount (both stamped and electric penciled), the magazine baseplate (overstamped), and the heel of the buttplate.
The scope serial number 86313 is found on the left side of the barrel, and the PU 3.5x scope.
The "arrow in a triangle" mark of the Izhevsk arsenal is found on the barrel, which is also marked 1943, while the scope is marked 1942. I suspect that the scope and rifle were mated in 1943, and the scope's serial number applied to the left side of the barrel.
At any rate, here are some shots of what I found - any comments on authenticity appreciated.
John
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06-02-2012, 10:17 PM
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Very nice Mosin and awesome pictures.. i have a 1937 91/30 thats not thats not a sniper but is all original ( non referb.)
Just remember the ol saying " the first shot will dislocate your sholder but the second will place it back" its not a joke.. i can PM you a site with a recoil pad that isnt a rubber one, its made from the gel thats found in mouse pads.. works really well, makes shooting the mosin very tolerable and fun.
One last thing.. will take a hog out no problems. have 3 with mine.
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06-02-2012, 10:44 PM
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The serial number is actually DV431 when you transliterate into English from Cyrillic. You should post this on Gunboards or Surplusrifle where all the Mosin and sniper experts lurk. The stock looks wartime to me because the front sling slot has only the lower liner and the rear slot has no liner or escutcheon.
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06-03-2012, 12:55 AM
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Nice looking rifle. I have a '44 vintage M38 carbine.
I'm not an authority on MoNags but there is a whole community very dedicated to them.
A few sources of information...
Gunboard's Forums
7.62x54r.net
7.62x54r Ammunition Evaluations
Got ammo?
Our Catalog
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06-03-2012, 01:05 AM
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Here's an interesting site. Comrade Zaitsev wasn't the only Russian sniper dispatching the fascist invaders.
Best Soviet Female Snipers Of WWII | English Russia
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06-03-2012, 09:55 AM
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A few observations of my own on the M/N.
The round is actually more powerful than our own 30-06 , thanks in part to the longer barrel.
The 'safety' is downright unsafe.
The stock is about as ergonomic as a boat oar.
The action may be strong , but the term 'primary extraction' didn't translate into Russian. Especially with steel cartridges.
As crude as some I've seen are , they shouldn't be anywhere near as accurate as they are.
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06-03-2012, 06:39 PM
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I have that movie in my DVD collection, one of the best movie made. If y'all haven't seen it you owe it to yourselves not to miss it.
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06-03-2012, 07:08 PM
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The Parallax board seems easy to deal with, and interesting to me to read from time to time.
Mosin Nagant Forum Forum
Good Luck!
Dyson
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06-03-2012, 07:35 PM
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If im not mistaken yours, like many other resent Moisin imports, has been counter bored. The crown is shiny. Originally the whole barrel is blued including the crown.
The newer stock is coming in from Ukraine with reproduction scopes and mounts. Original ww2 Moisin snipers with original scopes are north of $1000.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
Last edited by Arik; 06-03-2012 at 07:37 PM.
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06-03-2012, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arik
If im not mistaken yours, like many other resent Moisin imports, has been counter bored. The crown is shiny. Originally the whole barrel is blued including the crown.
The newer stock is coming in from Ukraine with reproduction scopes and mounts. Original ww2 Moisin snipers with original scopes are north of $1000.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
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I'd have to disagree with you on the shiny crown. First here is a pic of the two MoNags I own. While the sniper version has a more aggressive crown, which I would expect to protect the muzzle of a rifle specially selected for accuracy, it is definitely not counterbored. You can see the rifling right up to the crown.
The standard model likewise has a shiny crown, and the rifling extends to the crown. To me, it would not make sense to spend $75 on a $100 rifle to counterbore it.
I've seen other pics of Mosin-Nagants on the internet. The muzzles are shiny unless re-blued. By the way, this practice was pretty much European standard back then; witness Luger pistols - all with shiny crowns when originally manufactured; the crowning was done after bluing.
And also - the sniper rifle I've posted here has been privately authenticated six ways from Sunday as being correct and authentic; original in every respect. The only detail that varies is that the front sight is an earlier one rather than wartime manufacture. As I understand it, different front sights were routinely installed on the snipers to allow alternate shooting with the iron sights out to 600 arshins, giving better co-registration with the scope. On mine, the rear sight can actually be elevated to 1000 arshins before the lower part of the scope obscures the sighting notch and the area around the target at that range. These different height front sights could be pulled from parts bins regardless of the time of manufacture, so it's the result of a documented practice. And yes, this rifle is worth in the range of what you mentioned; it's no repro cobble-up.
I'm quite familiar with counterboring, and neither of my rifles exhibits it. The bore would be larger and smooth for a short distance from the muzzle. Not so here.
John
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Last edited by PALADIN85020; 06-05-2012 at 11:47 AM.
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06-04-2012, 05:37 AM
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That is a mighty fine Modin Nag sniper. It looks good to me. Did you buy it from a company that imported it or from a private owner? I would love to have one like that.
Charlie
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06-04-2012, 11:21 AM
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I believe that the book the movie was based on is titled "The War of the Rats". Very interesting account of the sniper "war" between Russia and Germany.
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06-04-2012, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raider
That is a mighty fine Modin Nag sniper. It looks good to me. Did you buy it from a company that imported it or from a private owner? I would love to have one like that.
Charlie
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I bought it from a private owner who has collected Russky stuff for a long time. He was reluctant to get it go, but it was in his safe for years, and as he's gotten older, he needed the money. He's vouched for it, and from what I've read on these sniper rifles, it has every published indicator of being genuine in all respects. I've been looking for a good one for years, and this is as good as it gets by all counts. There will be a future article of mine in Dillon's Blue Press on the Mosin-Nagants and in particular, the sniper versions.
By the way, I started an album on Russian stuff in the pictures and albums section - some more interesting guns there.
John
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Last edited by PALADIN85020; 06-04-2012 at 11:50 AM.
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06-04-2012, 01:29 PM
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I’m not implying the taller front sight is not original but wouldn’t a taller front sight make the rifle shoot lower? How does the rear scope monut interfere with the rear sight and how would a higher front sight fix that? Interesting rifle by the way and glad you found one of your “grail” guns.
Last edited by walnutred; 06-04-2012 at 02:23 PM.
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06-04-2012, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOONDAWG
"Enemy at the Gates" is one of my favorites too.
It doesn't hurt having Rachel Weiss as a lead either.
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No it doesn't. She's a looker.
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06-04-2012, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walnutred
I’m not implying the taller front sight is not original but wouldn’t a taller front sight make the rifle shoot lower? How does the rear scope monut interfere with the rear sight and how would a higher front sight fix that? Interesting rifle by the way and glad you found one of your “grail” guns.
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You are absolutely correct. I should have said a lower rear sight which would allow very close co-registering of the iron and optic sights at their intended distances at longer range. Good eye! I'll correct that post.
John
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06-04-2012, 03:51 PM
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How much did that beauty cost ya if you don't mind telling?
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06-04-2012, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poodle Soup
How much did that beauty cost ya if you don't mind telling?
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More than I wanted to pay, but less than I expected...
John
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06-04-2012, 07:54 PM
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Nice catch Paladin. Interesting post and very nice photography.
The link to the Ruusian female snipers is very cool.
Being half Russian, I find it very moving. Tough ladies.
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