Digging around a bit suggests that wolves and tigers eating people has actually led to a change in gun laws in India. Previously the only legally obtainable centerfire rifle was a somewhat anemic 310 bore member of the extended Lee Enfield family. More recently an Indian made 30-06 rifle has been made available for sale. The use of the SKS in Russia seems to be by government employed - or at least subsidized - hunters, being drawn from official surplus stocks.

There wolf, there castle.

After reading this I think I need a "little hair of the dog..."

Still, I find that if I get out my checkbook, the wolves stay away from my door...

I am just waiting for the guns vs Mummy thread. Of course they are really nothing but zombies that have been gift wrapped.

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Vaya con Dios

No need for a generator if there's a current bush nearby.

Ohm my goodness...watt was the question??

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Even older, even crankier....

Back in the day it would have been my Nikon F100, SB-28 flash set on 3frames per second.

Today, Nikon digital. Hopefully it will be the 400 member pack, so I have plenty of time to get some good shots.....

Be sure to paint that camera bright orange. Will make it oh so much easier to find in your gut pile.

It aint the critters with fangs,fur and claws that will kill ya,fellas.It's the little bitty *******s.3 years ago it took me several months to recover from meningitis and this morning I was diagnosed with rocky mtn spotted tick fever :-0

This was taken by a cattle tank in South Texes

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Forum consigliere

Clearly a Texen Chupacabra.

It's been said that on a good night you can hear them laughing in Arlington and in Upper Greenville Texas.

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Dum vivo cano

Well I am jumping in this a little late in the game but,..................This is one time tha I don't totally agree with bear bio. Sorry buddy.

There are literally hundreds of cases that wolves have attacked humans. BUT-----According to the OFFICAL GOVERNMENT authorities they really didn't happen unless a government offical actually sees it.

We heard the same stories about grizzlies from government officals too. They don't cross paved roads, etc. Having had a number of "situations here on my place with bears and lions. I say BS to the offical government statements.

A good wolf gun!! I don't know as I have never SEEN a wolf. I have heard them and seen what they have done. I know where several have been dumped after they were caught following kids home from school. I know that when they were caught in the act of killing a large dog and some lamas that no amout of horn honking or rock and stick throwing deters them. Officals wound not come out to investigate so they can say "this didn't happen"

I took my sons youth model seven and put a standard length synthetic stock on it with a 20" barrel chambered in 243 with a compact 2X7 Leupold scope on it and hope to use it this year on wolves!

John

edit. Several wolves have been shot at over 120lbs. The legal, in season shot ones!! The offical ones. They get very big. The ones we have here are not the prairie grey wolf. These are northern wolves.

I suspect that a wolf over 100 pounds would be very rare. That's a lot of weight for a canid, approaching the big end of large breeds. We have had several rotts and RottX - the biggest was 135 at the vet in his prime, and he was oversized by the standard. It's one thing to have a large or giant breed dog supported by humans; a canid so big surviving in nature would be a fluke. 80-odd pounds is actually pretty big.
The real risk is of the mixes - wolfdogs and coydogs. They have much less of the shyness and fear of humans, and inconsistent/unpredictable temperaments. Human encroachment into their territory brings conflict, too, and coyotes are very adaptable.

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NHI, 10-8.

I found more photos of man sized wolves here Wolf Hunting Alberta Canada Wolf Hunts Alpine Outfitters Wolf Hunting Guides . These are from a Canadian sight in Alberta. Obviously they will show larger trophy animals to promote their operation but these are North American wolves of large size.

Wolves in India have killed humans as recently as 2008. One pack killed 17 children some years ago before being shot - the autobiography of the guy who eliminated them was reviewed in newspapers. The strange local 315 bore rimmed cartridge is a short range proposition firing a heavy 244gr JSP but apparently the 30-06 is popular since it will reliably kill boars, nigalis, et al and wolves. During the 19 th century Hindus believed that spilling wolf blood would mean a bad harvest. British officers and Sikhs thus ended up killing wolves. Wiki alludes to a veritable plague of killings in the 1870s.

I've been hunting, fishing, and hiking the Colorado Rockies for nearly 50 years and I've seen thousands of critters, but only one that may have been a wolf (or may have been a very large coyote). The distance was over 100 yards and I saw only a moving animal in scrub oak covered terrain.

Wolf reintroduction programs in Wyoming have resulted in wolf sightings in Colorado over the past several years, and several reports of livestock kills, so I'm pretty sure we now have active packs in Colorado.

Grizzlies were reportedly extinct in Colorado half a century ago, but an archery hunter was attacked by one in the Four Corners area (southwest Colorado) about 30 years ago. He was able to kill the bear by stabbing it repeatedly with a broadhead arrow, but he was mauled badly. Obviously, grizzlies can find their way here on occasion.

During my 24 years in law enforcement I had to put down quite a few problem dogs including a 120 lb. Rottweiler that had attacked 3 people and cornered them in the bed of a pickup truck. S&W 4516-1, Speer .45 ACP 200JHP at pointblank range, one into the chest from the front, one to the forehead, one to the heart-lung area from the left side, and a fourth shot to the side of the head. No exit wounds. I hope I never run into a human that can take 4 hits from a .45.

I remember a large Chow, about 75 lbs, that nearly took an arm off a little girl. When I approached it charged me. Remington 870, 12 gauge 00-buck. First round stopped the charge, but the dog stayed on its feet and started circling me. Second shot put it down. Family sued me for destroying their beloved pet (unlicensed, no rabies vaccination), but never bothered to ask their neighbors about their little girl.

If a person, or a couple of people, were attacked by a pack of wolves (even if only 3 or 4, experienced pack hunters) I think it would be very difficult to escape unharmed, regardless of what weapons were available. You might survive, but you would probably be messed up pretty good.

As a scientist, we are trained to disbelieve everything until it is proven as likely by a preponderance of evidence (we base decisions on likelihood of error or probability-most decisions require 95% certainty. Hundreds of wolf attacks? But no Dr reports, photos, police reports, etc? If there are hundreds, surely there must be 20-30 that never went through the Feds? Did the Feds go through every small town archives just to purge the records?


1. Indian wolves are (or will be) a different species. I don't know if the re-classification has been published yet or not.
I was asked to comment on a draft copy.
2. Most "biggies" are hybrids but overly large specimens do exist. It wouldn't surprise me if some local populations vary from the "norm".
3.Black bears have been known to "wander" (we call it a "walk about"), sometimes hundreds of wiles. One Wyoming wolf was sighted in California (wearing a collar, so it was identified). We tagged a wolverine in the eastern Cascades that went up into BC, back into Washington, down the west side of the Cascades, as far south as Seattle, back to B.C., back along the east side of the Cascades to where she was originally captured. She had one litter in the process. This was in 2 years.

A friend collared a bobcat while in grad school. She caught it in Malibu (Santa Monica Mountains National Park (park or monument?). Anyway, the next night (about 30 hours or so after capture), a friend working with coyotes happened to pick up the signal near Magic Mountain (that's 35 miles, she said) across the San Fernando Valley in one day.

4. I worked P/T as a guide while in grad school. Few guides have scales and fewer have accurate ones. If anything, they may have a livestock scale. They might weigh a truck at a garage with and without the critter. Or, the critter tops out a livestock scale, so it's over 400 (or 500 or 600) pounds!

5. I have a buddy who's an ornithologist (bird biologist). He once told me that the first thing you should due is learn to ignore the range maps!

6. Dogs (of any species) are notoriously hard to key in. Our taxonomist in college examined a skull brought back by another professor from Spain. He determined that it was likely (he knew the actual percentage) because 200-something measurements/ratios matched out of 300.
Another guy described a new species of maned wolf (from South America) and published it and it almost got recognized as a new species until its DNA was checked and it turned out to be a mixed breed dog from Rio de Janero.

As a youngster of 11, I swallowed the lies of the wolf huggers hook, line, and sinker. It took me a long time to realize how false the nobody has ever been attacked by a wolf or they only kill what they need propoganda is. Ever present today, still, even though in recent years people have been attacked and even killed by wolves and coyotes in parts of the world. Ask some of the sheep herders in the western USA about wolves sport killing, ranchers have lost over 100 animals in just 2 nights recently.
I think man needs to relearn what our ancestors obviously knew very well. And I also think that it is time for these wild canines to relearn their fear of man. A bounty on coyotes certainly, perhaps on wolves too, at least in some areas, is in order IMO.

A few years ago, I attended a State meeting here in NH for updating the State endangered species list, which they are including the gray wolf (Timber wolf) on, as in their words they believe it is possible they are passing through from time to time, especially with a known population just to our north in Quebec. Not long before this meeting, one night on my way home, either the biggest coyote I've ever seen crossed the road in front of me, in my headlights, or it was a wolf.
Others (plural) who's word I trust have told me they have seen wolves here in NH, or heard them. These are people like us on this forum, and they know the difference in size, or the howls.
Interesting things are going on in the northeast.

I am also told that now, USFW and State agencies are aware that the coyotes that have come back in the last 40 years, have now cross bred with wolves, producing a hybrid animal that is a lot bigger than a typical coyote, and apparently these hybrids are quickly increasing in numbers. Which might explain some of the very large canine tracks I've seen out in the forests and wilderness here in NH. Next time I see this, I am going to photograph the tracks. I expect it wont take too long.

If you want to see something that'll make your eyes pop, go to google images, and search "giant wolves"; you'll see some photos of shot wolves being held up by the shooters, these photos are genuine and show the real thing. I had a conversation within the past year with a game biologist who has studied these huge wolves as a college intern.

Nothing less than a .357 magnum, IMO.

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Geoff. Since 1960.

Coyotes have made a strong surge back in Maine over the past few years, due to increased snow fall in the winter which made it difficult for deer to get around. Several people have reported missing pets and livestock, not a pandemic. They seem to have a healthy fear of humans as they are not seen very frequently. A local hunting guide, has received calls to eliminate coyotes that are around their house. He said that he sets up a motion activated light near some bait, and found that red spot light bulbs don't seem to scare them off. Only time I'd consider carrying a sidearm for them would be if I had to walk in the woods at night, as it has been an extremely long time since I have seen one in daylight.

Not enough meat on her bones for a wolf to bother with!

"Ask some of the sheep herders in the western USA about wolves sport killing, ranchers have lost over 100 animals in just 2 nights recently."

Do you have a citation for that? Or is this a "I have a friend whose cousin has a friend who heard that his friend....

In 2010, less than a dozen cows and calves (in the US) were killed by wolves (National Agricultural Statistics Surveyin the NY Times on 6/16/2011==The NASS is an annual census the USDA compiles from reports by the various industries, such as Cattlemen's Assoc). Since wolf kills are reimbursable, it is recognized as likely being an inflated figure. In Montana, for 2004, less than 1% of the deaths reported were caused by wolves, again from figures reported by the sheepherders themselves.

Go to www.nass.usda.gov/statistics by state and look it up for yourself.

"Not long before this meeting, one night on my way home, either the biggest coyote I've ever seen crossed the road in front of me, in my headlights, or it was a wolf."

I saw a big male coyote in the Kaibab one year that I thought at first could have been a wolf. Remember, I am a field biologist and lifetime hunter: I have seen hundreds of coyotes and seen wild wolves in the lower 48 and in Alaska.

Personally, I have no doubt that it is coy-dogs (hybrids) and wolf-dog hybrids that will be the problem in the future. These have lost their fear of man.

Sure do, here you go:

Wolves hit Dillon herd hard

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Geoff. Since 1960.

A bounty on deer would do the world more good. They are not predators, but I'd bet they kill more people every year than wolves do.

Then if you look at this:

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/wildlife_d...aho_report.pdf

in the very first paragraph on page 2, the USDAWS says that as many as 8 wolf kills on sheep occur for every single one detected. So, right off, the figures you provide are waaay low, using information from the very same source you have cited. They of course only reimburse based on confirmed kills. Your numbers are artificially low.

Marshwheeling, I never said that because of the numbers of people they eat..., I said there ought to be a bounty on them. The numbers of people they kill has nothing at all to do with my stance. There used to be a 10 cent bounty on woodchucks here in NH, but I doubt there is a single record of a woodchuck killing a human being. Unless somewhere sometime someone choked on a hunk of roast.

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Geoff. Since 1960.

Dhole - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


This seems a good place to discuss the Asiatic dhole, similar in some respects to the African wild/hunting dog.

I suspect both of having attacked humans, although data is hard to find.

In British colonial days in India, they'd have usually been shot with whatever rifle the hunter used for deer, leopard, blackbuck, etc. The .275, .303, .318, etc. I have a book by one officer who did some hunting with a Winchester .351 autoloader. That seems a good choice if one might need to shoot up a pack.

Dholes pursue and consume even very large animals, like nilgai, gaur, etc., even tigers and bears.

Like the African hunting dogs, they allow their young to eat early at a kill, unlike wolves, where the dominant breeding couple eat first.

I would be very interested if anyone has confirmed incidences of attacks on humans by either dholes or African hunting dogs.

Hyenas definitely do attack, sometimes skulking around African villages and biting off parts of sleeping natives, especially after a big beer-drink, where men may be sleeping in the open. But I haven't encountered any cases of packs of hyenas attacking, although it would hardly surprise.

Thanks you for supporting my point bear bio.

John

Down here in Florida it's the damn Yorkie's and Shih Tzu's!

The little ankle bitters have to go, they are everywhere, Pop up out of ladies purses right in the shopping cart in the food store no less!

Then the cry when walking them and a Coyote pops out of the bushes and they are left with a empty leash.

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Still Running Against the Wind

Texas Star: It's also worth noting that Dholes are much more sociable than wolves (i.e. larger packs),

"Ask some of the sheep herders in the western USA about wolves sport killing, ranchers have lost over 100 animals in just 2 nights recently." I would disagree with the term "recently", especially since populations can fluctuate just between years. Please also remember that APHIS are trappers=they have to justify their jobs (talk about inflating numbers!). It seems ironic that some people (not saying you in particular) distrust Fed employees except when it proves their point.

Also, Ranchers DO get paid for supposed kills by wolves (We just had our first in Washington State.) Of course, since they get paid for wolf kills and not for drowning in a rain puddle, frostbitten udders, turning over and unable to get up, and one hundred other ways (NASS has some good graphs), they wouldn't inflate the figures any (lol). Especially, since it is govt money (not really but...). BTW: Ireland has the same mortality rate as does the western US but has no wolves left.

"Hyenas definitely do attack, sometimes skulking around African villages and biting off parts of sleeping natives, especially after a big beer-drink, where men may be sleeping in the open. But I haven't encountered any cases of packs of hyenas attacking, although it would hardly surprise. "

Somebody been reading Capstick?? I think there was a case of hyenas attacking people a few years ago. Tanzania, Zimbabwe?? I don't get much in foreign reports. There was also the case of a shaman with a trained hyena who used it to murder his rivals. Of course, hyenas would leave no evidence.

Hunting dogs are a "no"-I've never heard of hunting dogs killing anyone except some " I knew a guy who knew a guy....." type of stories from the Victorian Age.

"Down here in Florida it's the damn Yorkie's and Shih Tzu's!"

Get some horned owls! You already got pythons and gators!

We're getting way off target. Back to the original post: Anything 30 carbine on up in a rifle or 38 spl in a pistol.

Bio-

I knew Peter Capstick slightly, and two of the paperback copies of his books contain an excerpt of one of my reviews of his works. I have all of his books and kept a lettter from him, thanking me for a cartoon that I'd sent him. That cartoon involved hyenas waiting outside a tent with malicious intent. I'm not sure if the copyright ban here will let me post the caption. But it's funny in a macabre way that Peter enjoyed.

But other sources also cite hyena attacks. I can't locate my copy just now, but a book by Ed. Ricciuti (sp?) discusses the dangers of various species to humans, and I think I recall hyena attacks cited there and elsewhere.

There was a topic?

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Still Running Against the Wind

Where are we? What'd we do??

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RIP Shipmate

Forget the wolves and African Dohles... it is canis familiaris (domestic dog) that attacks, maims & mauls tens of thousands of children in our country each year. Some die. C.B.

Weekends here=gotta go. Have fun, guys!

Something about copyrights and their relation to Texas Hy-Dogs.

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Dum vivo cano

Thanks for your previous post, They've been educational and I've learned some from them.

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Dum vivo cano

Spotted hyena - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Scroll down in this Wiki entry to see about attacks on humans by Spotted Hyenas. Although they confirm such, I doubt if all are ever reported, many occurring against pastoral peoples who have little faith or interest in making reports to their govenmentts.

The Hyena thing is kind of scary. When I was stationed down south and would hunt and hike on post or even going into the field we had to worry about feral dogs. They ran in packs and a friend of mine was treed by some once. In Germany I was always worried about Grunie pigs (Grunewald) G.I.s always left out trash and the pigs would come in and they would get very mean.

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Stan