I just read that a grizzly killed a hiker in Denali National Park in Alaska.It amazes me why anyone would go unprotected where there's a chance of being attacked by a grizzly bear or any other animal (or person).

The odds are very much in your favor unless you push your luck.50 yards is too close.I've been closer a few times and it's not a good feeling.

People seem to forget that humans are NOT THE TOP OF THE FOOD CHAIN. While salmon fishing in Alaska on the Russian River.
Our plan was simple:
1. Youngest, strongest person carried backpack that had trash bags full of fish, well sealed.
2 Everyone got in front of him and watched the woods while walking.
3 Second youngest and fastest walked behind the guy with the fish.
4 On sighting of bear all guns came out, back pack dropped and we all scrambled.
We used this techinque a couple of times, the bears were more interested in fishing themselves. Funny thing about the fishing, guys would be on top of each other "Combat Fishing" and yet you could walk up or down stream a couple of hundred yards and be with your friends having a great time with room to spare.

Just saw the news report on this sad incident. NBC stated that this was the first time a bear killed a person in Denali Park. So, certainly not a common situation...

I could have heard it wrong, but I thought they said the guy was 50 feet (not 50 yards) from the bear, taking pictures, when attacked. If so, Darwin comes to mind.

I wonder what caliber, I mean how many megapixels his camera was..?

Again, sad story.

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NRA Life Member

In my experience, most of those folks who go walking around places like Denali, or Yellowstone are granola eating, tree huggers who would rather be eaten by a griz than carry a dangerous object like a GUN!! Just my opinion of course.

You should "never" believe anything on NBC News.....I've read several reports and they all say 50 yards (not 50 feet). The statement from the park service says that the hiker "came within 50 yards of the bear, far closer than the quarter-mile separation required by park rules"........apparently the guy was not just mauled, but was dragged from the site of the attack and eaten with the bear guarding his food cache when rangers killed it.

Don

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Laus Deo! <><

I spent 3 years flying around mostly coastal Alaska in mostly helicopters repairing and changing batteries on seismographs for the USGS in the late 1970’s. During that time I saw a lot of big bears but fortunately none of them were up close and personal. I had checked out from the USGS warehouse a pre 64 model 70 in 375 H&H and also a S&W model 29. Quite a few times we would land at a remote site and discover the seismic vault scattered around the hill side having been dug up by a bear. The helicopter of course made a lot of noise and if there were any big bears around they left the area. The 375 was generally leaned up against a nearby tree as it is impossible to work while holding a rifle but the model 29 was always on my person. I remember one time we were flying about 100 feet above the ground in the Alaska Peninsula when a large Brownie stood up on his hind legs and waved at us. I think he may have been inviting us to dinner. The pilot looked at me and commented that he did not want to develop engine trouble anywhere around the vicinity of that bear. We had one geologist that was attacked by a black bear while doing field work in the Big Delta area and she lost both of her arms. The bear was trying to eat her. She managed to call on her radio for help and the helicopter returned and scared the bear away. She was not carrying a gun. After that incident USGS bought a crate of Remington 870 riot guns to issue to field crews. They also instituted a firearms training procedure for field crews. While most bears will run away from you I will not be taking that chance. When I went Dall Sheep hunting with my brother 9 years ago I carried my 338 Win mag loaded with 200 grain Nosler Ballistic tips and I also carried 10 250 grain partitions for any bear that may have contested my right to be on his mountain. The only bear we saw on that trip ran over the far mountain with her two cubs when she realized what we were.

I was out the other eve for my regular 2.5 mile hike at the nearby state park. The trail heads directly off the main road, through a tall grassy field, then up into the woods. It's a beautiful wooded walk to the top of the mountain, then back again ... takes about an hour round trip. Normally there's minimal wildlife out and about, an occasional deer or turkey, though the area is open for hunting in season. As I made my way back, I reached the grassy area, roughly 100 yards off the blacktop ... the trail itself is about 7' wide, and sandwiched by waist-high vegetation on both sides ... and came across a HUGE pile of bear scat. We only have blackies here, but seeing that one of them had come down so far on the trail and went into the tall grass ... well, it was a reminder that I'm only a guest in his domain and should always be prepared. Normally a J-frame accompanies me, but the size of the scat pile might require an upgrade to an L, or even an N.

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I'm with the banned ...

I've taken a fair number of canoe trips in Northern Ontario where Black Bears are
commonplace and the laws prevent you from being armed, unless it's a hunting
season and you buy a license. In many cases you also have to hire a guide when hunting.

My partner & I always took certain precautions and stayed aware of what
was going on around us while out in the bush and we never had any issues.

In spite of that, when I was looking into doing the Sutton River that flows through
Polar Bear Provincial Park, on the west side of Hudson's Bay, and learned that there was a
good chance that we would see Polar Bears, I opted to play it safe and stick with Black Bears.

Trust me, the allure of 6 lb. Speckled Trout (Brookies) was tempting,
but Polar Bears out on the tundra, which is the type of terrain the
Sutton flows through, somehow overrode the temptation.

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Ogy

Remember, most PREDATORY bear attacks on humans are by BLACKS. I know of one stabbed to death by an angler that had about 8 or 9 bodies stashed nearby in a food cache.

I'd carry at least a four-inch barrelled .357 in your situation, probably even a six-inch M-629. I do know of .44 Magnums having stopped bear attacks, even by grizzlies and by one polar bear. The polar bear was hit with a S&W .44 Magnum with four-inch bbl., but I'm not sure if the gun was stainless or blued.

Rather disgustingly, readers of, "National Geographic" sent letters criticizing the Norwegian explorer who shot to save his life! Some of these Bambi huggers have a very warped sense of morality.

Take care!

P.S. Another member says that he saw a photo of the Norwegian's .44 in a holster and he thinks it had a six-inch bbl. If anyone can post a link to view it, please do. I'd like to read the whole story. All I saw were letters to the editor.

It just goes to show, it's not how close you get to the bear, its how close the bear gets to you that counts.

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314th AMS 1983 - 1991

bears gotta eat too.....dont line up to be a hot lunch. hiking in bear country or anywhere dangerous game can be encountered doesnt take a whole lot of common sense to prepare for. nature weeds out the weak, the laim, and the dumb.

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I'm only allowed 30 characters

The article I just read (FoxNews.com) noted that the hiker's camera had been recovered, and that it contained photos of the bear minding its own business, grazing, etc. Authorities estimated that the hiker spent at least eight minutes photographing the bear before getting attacked. If this is accurate, then the hiker tempted fate in a foolish way, and got a very expected result. A sad story ... a hiker loses his life due to carelessness and ignorance, while a bear loses its life due to the same carelessness and ignorance.

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I'm with the banned ...

LOL, isn't that the truth, what a bunch of bunk being put out by that company! At least they keep their agenda consistent, from the early news, to the late news.... It's like one big infomercial.

Oh, and that's some gruesome details, thanks for sharing.

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NRA Life Member

This is a shame...people have got to realize the danger they could face in those types of environments and plan accordingly.

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Lt. Dan, what R U doing here?

nature should weed out the adults who are too stupid to take reasonable measures....dont cheat mother nature.

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I'm only allowed 30 characters

I've been there several times. The first when I was a young teen. I remember a dumb tourist that got out of his car and approached a sow with two cubs.

He took his camera and got with 75 yards when the sow stood up and looked at him. Then she charged breifly as people yelled at the dummy to reteat.

It was actions like this butthead that eventually resulted in visitors to ride a bus through the park instead of private vehicles.

Sad story for both photographer and bear; common sense is no longer common.

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"Life is short, hunt hard"

I recall seeing videos at Yellowstone of the outcome when some dullard would try to pet a bison like a dog. FAIL. The first four letters of "wilderness" are "wild". They are not pets, and it is their home we are invading. I have seen some of these large wild animals at closer than smart range, fortunately none of them bears. I didn't want to stay that close to the cow elk I stumbled upon, probably not even full grown at that. If I found myself that close to a bear, I would find my way out of that location with alacrity. I'm sure those are great pictures, but they were not worth dying for. I sure hope the idiot had not yet produced offspring.

My wife and I were hiking in Yellowstone, not all that far out, and I started seeing things that made me wonder if we were near a bear's hunting area. I decided that I did not like the only way to be really sure, and we headed back.

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NHI, 10-8.

when you surprise a bear or other large wild animal in its natural habitat you run the risk of getting your "clock cleaned". this is nothing new and comes under the heading of "common sense".

what would you do , if a stranger walked into your house, uninvited ?

In a previous post I mentioned about taking certain precautions
when canoe tripping in areas with heavy bear concentrations.

One of those precautions was to talk out loud, even if I was by myself on a
portage trail, especially if I had a canoe over my head, which limited my visibility.

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Ogy

I do some deep wilderness photography in many areas out west....sometimes in bear country. I do move in the opposite direction when a bear is spotted.

I had an encounter last year in Yellowstone. A buddy and I were carrying a S&W 460 and a S&W 500. We both are excellent shots and shoot competitively. We both had bear spray in our hand while walking. We surprised a sow at the bend of a trail and she bolted at us. My buddy and I both let loose with spray and she stop as soon as she caught a snoot full.

Three things I can say with certainty...from my meager experience:

1) The spray worked as advertised.

2) Even if I had my S&W 460 in my hand no way would I have made a one shot kill.....she was at top speed instantly...and I might have got off one shot....at a massive skull...moving up/down/sideways. We all like to think we are gods with a gun....but few people on this planet would have got off a kill shot....no way...no how.

3) Big bears are fast...race horse fast.

I will put the flame suit on since this always stirs the pot. To clarify, this was my situation, my (our) reaction to it, and the results (everybody went home safe). Other strategies might have worked.

I agree....it seems that "higher order thinking" has taken a shift in our society.

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Lt. Dan, what R U doing here?

Watching how some people behave around rutting elk in Rocky Mtn National park and the bears in Yellowstone can be eye opening.The poor rangers run themselves ragged .

Include the Bison in Custer State Park. People think the big shaggys are slow and hard to provoke. I always have my camera ready when someone leaves their car to approach a big bull.

Seems like every year during Rally Week, some joker on an unmuffled Harley decides he has some kinship with the Mighty Tatanka and rides up to a bull with his pipes blasting. Whether the encounter is fatal depends on how far the bike and rider get tossed, and on which one gets stomped when they come down.

That guy should have been properly armed and given that animal a wide birth. Doggone shame that bear had to lose its life for human stupity.

I like bear threads

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C & L

I think the numbskull should have used a telephoto lens....

i wonder when these folks will figure out that it ain't Yogi and BooBoo out there. They probably think steaks come from the store in little packages......

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Even older, even crankier....

I've had both black and grizzly bears in my yard here in Alaska and never had one want to attack me. It's called respecting the animal and their space...when they are in the yard, it's THEIR space. They are just looking for food, if you leave them alone and do not pose a threat to them, they will usually leave you alone.

You can't fix stupid. But bears can.

My mental diary.....

"A quick breakfast of 2 granola bars, an energy drink....and hit the trail."

"Take photos of cute, snuggly bear....then lunch."

Pretty racist remark don't you think?????

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Forum consigliere

[QUOTE=Texas Star;136675786 I know of one stabbed to death by an angler that had about 8 or 9 bodies stashed nearby in a food cache.


Really?
In modern times?
When? Where?

i think you are spot on...bears have ungodly speed and agility

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SWCA#2208
KK4EMO

And lions. I don't remember where I read the story but a bunch of Bambi huggers were on a photo safari in Africa. One guy heard that there was a pride of lions right down the road so he drove down and set up his video. Then this brave soul thinking they would welcome him since he was no threat walked out to pet the nice lions. All subsequent events were captured on film. His remains were NOT returned to his next of kin.

As Robert Heinlein opined, "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." Apparently this goes double when wild animals are involved.

CW

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μολὼν λαβέ

I remember that story, and not that it matters, but I believe it was a 6-inch gun. I think I saw a picture of the gun in a holster that would have been too long for a 4-incher.

Am I the only one who thinks it crazy to track down and destroy these animals for just doing what they do naturally? As Vytoland says, the "victims" are walking around in the animal's backyard, presenting what doubtless must seem to them a threatening appearance. What is the point of destroying the animal because he is a "man-killer"? They are ALL potential man-killers and all are fine IF left alone. If you have to destroy the animal to save a life, that is defensible, but after the fact...

I was going to ask the same question: why do they track down and kill the animal??

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"You're messin' up my Zen"

I lived in Alaska back in the 60's before bear spray. Anyone who went fishing or into the bush packed a rifle or shotgun with slugs, pistols didn't cut it , you needed stoping power or nothing. Your talking about animals that have no fear of humans, you are part of the food chain. The enviromentilists now days know nothing about real life . they only think of wilderness as they see Yellowstone park. I am so sick of the want to be behinds of america that I could croak. Wolves need to be exterminated again. They are enginered killers and the ranchers are the victoms. Every time a cow, horse , sheep or other farmers animals are eaten by wolves, some of the people who want the wolves back should have a horse, cow dog, or other pet killed by their neighbors. Then they might feel the same lose as their local ranchers.

Every time I hear of a story like this it reminds me of the guy who used to go to Alaska with his camera and was on discovery channel for the whole summer and name the bears. Eventually he took his girlfriend with him and they were both eaten. What gets me is how he was made a hero afterwards instead of being labeled the idiot he was because he refused to take any type of firearm or even bear spray if I recall. People have no idea how dangerous bears can be.

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Vaya con Dios

with that thinking shouldnt we kill all the bears too since they kill people? how about killing all the sharks? i mean they force/kill/hunt..... wolves out of their native ranges/homes/territory.... dangle meat on the hoof in front of them, then get mad when they eat to survive.

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I'm only allowed 30 characters

Every critter in nature could be said to be an "engineered killer" (predator), like us, for example, and likewise nearly every critter can be a "victim" (prey). I may not be qualified to say it but I believe man has done more harm to himself and to the planet than wolves, sharks, bears, and all the other dangerous species of critters combined, could ever approach. Wiping out animals for doing their natural jobs is "impenetrable mindlessness." Attempting to expertly control them, within the scope of our knowledge and ability, is another matter.

I totally loathe all bears......I have had the good fortune of having killed two blacks in NC.......If I could mount a 50cal machine gun on an ATV I would personally volunteer to eradicate all the bears of any kind......

The tree huggers love me!

When i was stationed in Alaska, I carried a rifle every time we entered the woods or went berry picking. There was too much chance that the guy picking berries on the other side of the bush was a bear. At first I carried a Win 70 in 458 (wish I still had that rifle), but it was pretty heavy so I switched to a Rem 760 pump carbine: 18 inch barrel, 30-06 caliber, Weaver K 2.5 scope. I still have that rifle. I carried it with 220 gr bullets and one in the chamber.

Only had two instances when we might have been sharing the woods with a bear. Once I was out camping with my son; on the other side of the valley, at least 1/2 mile away, there was a 'something'. It didn't move like a moose, and was dark gray while moose are brown, but my little Bushnell 6X24s couldn't make out what it was. We high tailed it out of there. The other time I was hiking with my son in pretty thick vegetation. Something went crashing off through the bush about 75 yards head of us. Luckily the sound was receding, not coming towards us. Moose don't act like that. Both times the Remington felt very reassuring in my hands.

And I didn't just rely on hardware: I practiced. I had an assortment of somewhat dubious 30-06 brass, much of it from blanks, and I got a Lyman 4 cavity mould block for a 190 gr, 30 caliber, gas check bullet (Lyman doesn't make 4 cavity rifle moulds now but they did in the '60s. I still have that block). I had a pretty mild load, and I made a lot of them using that cast bullet and that brass. I shot a lot of it in rapid fire practice: as fast as I could cycle the action and aim at a target at 100 yards. I was no expert but I got rid of a lot of the rough edges; my skills at fast shooting were a lot better than most people out in the woods. Of course, it's all lost now as now I haven't done that kind of practice for quite a while.

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My idea of a bear gun is a Winchester or CZ .375 H&H. That goes for deliberate hunting of them or for defense. If I lived in Alaska or was buying a rifle to hunt there,I think Winchester may make their .375 in stainless with synthetic stock. That would make sense for that wet environment.

What I actually have is a .270 and a 7mm-08 and a .303. Honestly, I think any would "do" a bear with suitable bullets. Wish they loaded factory ammo in .303 with Noslers... But I know that many moose and elk are taken every year in Canada with .303's loaded with lesser bullets. And Noslers are available in my other two calibers.

As for the post about not understanding why a bear that has killed a man has to be tracked down and eliminated, I hope the poster can imagine how such a bear would pose a continuing threat to other humans and even come to regard them as a new prey item. It also helps to give the family of the victim some closure.

As for the post about not understanding why a bear that has killed a man has to be tracked down and eliminated, I hope the poster can imagine how such a bear would pose a continuing threat to other humans and even come to regard them as a new prey item. It also helps to give the family of the victim some closure.[/QUOTE]

TexasStar,
I disagree and this poster CAN imagine how a bear is/would be a continued threat since I have sense enough to know it was a threat before eating said human. Since the animal was a threat to the human it ate well before eating it. I think it is nothing more than human shortsightedness and "our" need to "make it all better".

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"You're messin' up my Zen"

Every bear is a potential threat to a man, and so every encounter with a bear should be treated as if it could be deadly. (Keep your distance and be prepared.)

Is there any plausible evidence that once a bear kills a human it will usually change its behavior to include humans as preferred prey? If it does, then tracking it down and killing it would make some sense.

That is what I would really like to know, but I would prefer more than incidental or anecdotal evidence. I have read that the big cats have been known to do this in Africa and India. I have never heard from an authoritative source that bears have that tendency. It seems extremely improbable. Does anyone really know anything about this?

Such evidence may be hard to come by, simply because rangers do track down and kill bears that can be ID'd as having attacked humans. Usually, human remains are found in their stomachs. For this reason, repeated attacks are usually deterred. And outside the parks, humans are often armed and stop the initial attack.

In Africa and India, where man-earting cats have been known to have INDIVIDUALLY consumed literally hundreds of people before being shot, they were more elusive and few hunters pursued them with single-minded purpose until they could be encountered and shot. I think Jim Corbett, in particular, should have been knighted for his outstanding services in that regard. If you've never read his books, do. And find and read those by Kenneth Anderson, too.

One of the most chilling things that I've read was Anderson's account of stalking a black panther in the dark! He was so close to the cat as it approached him that he heard its lips pull back in a snarl and put a .405 bullet into it just in time.

I question your logic in thinking that it is extremely improbable that a bear that has killed a human won't do it again. I think the reverse is true, and problem bears in the parks have escalated their behavior. Such bears are usually tranquilized and moved, but some remain an increasing threat.

In today's social climate, I doubt that rangers would shoot a bear unless they felt that it would indeed remain a threat to humans. There'd be too much backlash from people like you and the PETA crowd.

If you have not read the books by Corbett and Anderson or the account of the Tsavo lions by Lt. Col. J.H. Patterson, V.C., I urge that you do. ("The Man-Eaters of Tsavo".) More recent attacks have been profiled by the late Peter H. Capstick, whom I knew slightly. His best single work on the subject is, "Maneaters." It discusses a number of species known to consume humans, including cannibals.

Anderson and others have commented that the Indian bears are very aggressive, too, and one of his books includes an encounter with one, as I recall.

I think the whole discussion about whether the animal would kill a human again or not is, quite candidly, rediculous! Has anyone given any thought to the fact that the animal that has killed (and eaten) a human does it again for the sole purpose of it being a heck of a lot easier to do so than to try and run down something that runs a lot faster, in all probabilty is stronger and is harder to sneak up on??
I think it is laughable that a wild animal is hunted down and killed because it has killed a human.

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"You're messin' up my Zen"