Admin Edit-
You folks DO know politics is a banned topic here- right?
This is a pretty good thread with some good points raised.
Leave the politics out.
It is about SEAL's and oaths and duty and honor.....

If you want to keep the thread, keep it on topic.

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There's been some controversy over the writing of a book by one of the Navy SEALs who participated in the mission to kill Osama Bin Laden.

I for one, admire him, as I do all in the SEAL community who constructed the mission and carried it out against very heavy odds.

I understand his motivation. SEALS are taught never to lie to their comrades or to their superiors. To set the record straight, even though there are other versions of the event out there motivated by whatever, is understandable, even when against the code. He says he has not revealed any secrets that are not already out there in the public domain.

I believe him.

I think any movement to excoriate him for attempting to write the true history of the mission would be ill-advised. Yes, he violated policy; that was wrong, but I think it was with the best of intentions. He made the decision, and has defended his reasoning. The true details of the assassination of JFK are probably known to some in the government who took an oath of secrecy. Would it be so wrong to "out" the true story? It could only serve the public interest now.

At any rate, this picture is a tribute to the brave men in that SEAL team. It illustrates some of the tools of their trade.

God bless them, every one, and OooRAH!

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Why is he different from everyone else? His oath of secrecy didn't apply to that mission?

There are things that happened a lifetime ago that are still not talked about.

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James L. "Jim" Rhiner

Everyone of course is entitled to their opinion, especially when none of us actually know the contents of this discussion.

The only thing I know for sure: In the military the word "Secret" means Secret. Jeopardizing lives in future missions for money, I wonder about it.

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Doesn't hasta call me Johnson

I wonder why he even decided to write about the mission, if it wasn't for personal gain. Looks to me like he needed to keep quiet about the whole situation regardless. Just sayin.

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James

I can't put myself in his shoes, but my speculation is that in view of the other "versions" of the event, including a coming Hollywood movie aided actively by (***censored***), he wanted to be sure folks got the straight skinny. Also, the profits from the book will be largely going to military charities. As I said, it's controversial, but I think I understand the motivation.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

When you go into a military job of any kind that requires a top security clearance, you are done talking about your work to anyone, forever. What part of that is so hard for folk to understand these days?

And, not fer nuthin', but the squid version is : "Hoo-Yah".

Mike

Just usin' Army terminology - my apologies to those who use another variant!

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Agree with those who say he should keep
his yap shut and be a "Quiet Hero" like the
others. While i have high regards for the
Seal Team members this seems like a poorly
advised publicity grab.
I will also bet he has few friends among those
who we're with him on said mission.
The Special Forces personel are'nt known for
writing "tell-all" books of missions that are
supposed to be kept secret. Many reasons for
this and many he probably has no comprehension
of.

Chuck

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They hold no Quarter

You Army personnel make my laugh.

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Doesn't hasta call me Johnson

Consider the "Spin" from those that handle such things at the highest levels of gov't. And that politics seems to be the norm for some career minded Generals.

Isn't refreshing, to have a little "truth" intermixed with all the dogma...

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Non gratum anus rodentum

Actually, he's not the lone ranger - witness numerous books by Dick Marcinko, former commander of SEAL Team Six. In those books, he goes into considerable detail by couching what he writes as fiction, but nothing, I presume, that would endanger lives. Not saying it's right, just saying that I think I understand the motivation on the recent book in view of all the Bravo Sierra out there. None of us have read it yet, so the jury is still out. Regardless, it will be interesting.

The co-author of the book sounds off here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kevin-...b_1847528.html

and the author here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1839789.html

And additional details here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1829416.html

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Understood John,
But do we need the Personel who we're on the ground
relaying "their personal" account of events from a
Special Forces mission. That's all i'm saying.
We already have our President going on TV and
blabbing about what "great intelligence" the team
recovered almost while the chopper is still in the air bringing
our boys home. This and the media pundits will no
doubt in the future get some guys killed on a future
mission. Just my thoughts. But who knows....

Chuck

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They hold no Quarter

The thing is, with true warriors the only thing that matters is accomplishing the mission.
Medals and parades may be nice, but it's not why they go into harms way.

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Hold my beer and watch this!

This analogy is a big reach - even ignoring the assumption asserted.

Out
West

When ya go into the military and volunteer for certain 'additional duties' like Special Operations , apply for and get a security clearance , you promise , swear and sign an agreement not to divulge such things.

Divulging such info can endanger you , your family and friends , and the family and friends of fellow operators who may still be actively engaged in current anti-terror activities.


Never know if and when naturalized US citizen Abdul J. Muhammed might load his taxicab with explosives and drive into his next booksigning.


Defense contractors have security briefings reminding them not to discuss what they do , but some politician can pop in with a full press crew and print whatever they want to make it look like they are responsible for you having a job.

I can find info about stuff we build at work on the 'net that I can get fired and prosecuted for even asking about at work.

I won't argue the right or wrong of this but I did pre-order and am looking forward to the read.
Mark

I would have "loved" to have been a fly on
one of the team members shoulders
who stormed the compound and i'm sure it will
make for interesting reading and a movie soon, no
doubt. My problem is with the guy who signs
a confidentiality agreement and it also
gets drilled into his head "Not to" discuss mission
details but he (decides to anyways).
Your word of Honor should be enough especially
for a SEAL team member.
And though its been stated that proceeds of the
book will go to chairty. The dude is'nt doing this
for free. Guess i'd rather have my heroes be
men of their word.
Good Thread.

Chuck

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They hold no Quarter

As PALADIN85020, posted I too understand the Frustration faced by all members of the team that took on a very dangerous mission. I can also understand why the person wrote the book, yet I still don’t think it was the correct thing to do. Sometimes ya gotta just suck it up and deal with it.

I'm sure I will read the book, but being the cheap S.O.B I can be I'll pick it up at the second hand book store in 6 or so weeks.

Other issues aside, I want to know the truth, and hope to read the book and learn that.

Sadly, everyone believes their entitled to the truth, especially when it dosen't concern them. It matters not one whit to me whether they turned right or left when they went through the door, or where the info for the hit came from. It only matters that they did their jobs, and one more piece of trash has been taken out.

What great insight do you suppose will be revealed? Opsec is compromised, operators are compromised and families are compromised. It's great the proceeds will go to charity. Maybe he should have just held a carwash.

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James L. "Jim" Rhiner

It's all about the money....I will never read it.

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Lt. Dan, what R U doing here?

So, this one shooter in a super complex operation knows the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
I don't buy it.

I'm getting tired of "relative" morality, honor, and integrity.

When a man tosses a few drinks, and contritely confesses a mistake or flaw to his 'best friend', have any of you ever seen the harm done when 'best friend' relays it to the man's wife "cause she might need to know"?

Which laws am I exempt from today? Please be specific.

Which client can the lawyer betray confidentiality on?

Exactly which of your sins do you want your priest or pastor talking about at the church social?

Which patient does good ol' Doc forget his oath on? Want it to be you?

It has been common since the dawn of time for the higher-ups to take credit for or spin what the grunts do. Big deal. They expect it. Part of the job.

God only knows what harm he has done down the road when another young grunt uses his precedent to think "it's all relative anyway....."

He took an oath.
He broke it.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

And I thought it was, "YoooHooo!!!" I stand corrected!

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Even older, even crankier....

And how do you know it's gonna be the truth?
It's simply one guys account of what "He" saw.
Since he is trying to sell books do you think he
might make some embellishments?
Lee said it best, read his post.
SpecOp members "CANNOT" pick and choose
which orders to obey or not.
Some people just can't wait to read the latest
from Daniele Steele either.....
I'll pass on this book.

Chuck

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They hold no Quarter

BOOM.

Out
West

I have an admission to make ... I was interested in buying this book ... until I read this thread. I have no idea what the author's motivations are, but the oath he took as a SEAL is the one that supersedes all else. If the book was marketed as a piece of realistic fiction, no problem, but as it stands the author is violating the principles of SpecOps if indeed he is kissing and telling.

I will not support the this book with a purchase.

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I'm with the banned ...

The way I hear it is the government wants to sue him over the book. While I don't believe the general public need to know all of what the Military does (for security reasons). Either way it went down.

I do believe the world is a better place without Bin Laden

Keep it on topic and off politics, or it goes away.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Bin Laden is DEAD....enough said..........

"The rules have been around since day one. Different time. I'm not saying I agree with them all. But if you start picking and choosing which ones to follow, then the whole thing just falls apart." Chibs/Sons of Anarchy

Secret MEANS Secret!!!!!

You do not need to know everything PERIOD!!!!!

Incomplete information will foil you, THE TOTAL "BIG" PICTURE DOES COUNT.


Everything should not and is not INTENDED TO BE AN OPEN BOOK.

HONOR, OATHS, AND INTEGRITY still means something to some, I TRULY HOPE.

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NRA Pistol/Rifle Inst. RSO

No, that's the Air Force version.

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CSM, U S Army(Ret) 1963-1990

Had to give A10 a Like for unknowingly setting it up.

And REM 3200 a Like for giving it meaning.

Well done gentlemen, I did laugh out loud.

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Doesn't hasta call me Johnson

Here is an actual review of the book, by the NYT no less. I post this trying to be as neutral as possible.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/03/bo...nted=2&_r=2&hp

Anyone reading this thread needs to treat themselves to a visit to the Navy Seal Museum in Ft. Pierce, Florida. The guns on display alone are worth the trip, the collection of genuine 1911's are incredible, not to mention the other 6 million reasons. Thank you to ALL who have served our great country, Frank

Hanging on a wall at the Naval Academy it an ancient saying;"DON'T GIVE UP THE SHIP"
During WW2 there was "Loose Lips Sink Ships!"
When you volunteer for the duty you take all the responsibilities and duties that come with it. AND ONCE YOUR IN THE TEAMS YOU KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT!
It's called Operational Security, it's designed to keep those in the know safe, familes safe, and fellow team members safe! For those looking to make a buck on their time inside their a damn schmuck and I'm being polite!
And for those with a need to know, sign up and apply for BUD/S!
And it's pronounced "HOO YAH!" long and loud so the Marines standing post in Heaven get worried about what's about to arrive! Dale

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"Long live the S&W 3rd. Gen.!"

Honor is honor and secret is secret. I do not need to know the facts and will not read the book. I respect the men on their mission and thank them for their service.

I am currently reading a book by retired Navy SEAL CPO and current President of Craft, Intl., Chris Kyle. The name of the book is American Sniper: The Autobiography Of The Most Lethal Sniper In U.S. Military History. The one difference between this book and the new one coming out is that, after Chris' book was written and edited, it was submitted to both the DOD and Navy for approval. As he mentions in the Author's Note, certain changes were requested and made for security reasons. He said they still didn't like everything he wrote but they couldn't do anything about that since it wasn't involving security. I think that's one of the reasons the new book is drawing so much flak is it was never submitted for review. But then you think, had it been submitted for review, how much of what's in it would he be asked to omit. Might we just get an intro page followed by "The End?"

Someone said to me a while back they didn't think we really got Bin Laden. I replied that, to me anyway, I know he's dead because no SEAL, orders or no orders, is going to take credit for a kill he didn't make. So I will probably read this book just for the take of someone with boots on the ground instead of men and women sitting in an office and then putting a spin on what happened. Like has been said many times, there are three versions of events. Your version, my version and what really happened. We've heard one version so let's hear a second version and somewhere between, maybe, will be the truth.

And yes, like others I agree he violated his oath and secrecy agreements in writing the book. But if the money from the book is going to charity, what was the motivation to write it? Self aggrandizement? I doubt anyone that needed a pat on the back that bad would have ever made it through BUD/S. You might get a Gibbs slap on the head but not a pat on the back. Someone who needed approval that bad would have rung the bell pretty early on and been given that cup of coffee and doughnut. I guess we'll find out eventually.

Anybody know if he uses his real name and is he still in the Teams?

CW

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μολὼν λαβέ

Answer... NO, and NO..

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Linda
SWCA #1965, SWHF #245

I believe it's "boo-yah!!" for SEALs, and ooo-rah! for Marines.

I've got sooooooooo much to say here....probabaly be judged as political...I have seen the Big Gorilla in the rear view mirror with a huge hammer....gonna be quiet and leave for a while....

I agree... Thank you for serving.... nuff said...

Hog

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Isaiah 55:8-9
Phil. 4:13

and it's yeeeehaw for cowboys!

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Isaiah 55:8-9
Phil. 4:13

Truth? there is no such thing.

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Aim small miss small

I have a read a lot of books about SEALs and being an army guy I have a lot of respect for them.

I just wish every one didn't have to cover the SEAL training. I get tired just reading the training part.

I have heard that the" truth" is the first casualty of war. It may be true.

On a side note, no one ask me what I did while I was in the Army, except my daughter, who is a nuclear engineer in Amarillo takes them apart!! OPSEC is critical to sucess of a mission. I see new units come into Afghanistan,and I have to give them the "Secret Squirrel" handshake in order to find out who they are replacing. I start out by naming what the departing unit is, at what FOB and who the leaders are. The soldiers get bugged eyed and then I say "Who do you think fixes those computers??"

I had a high security clearance while involved with the RB-47s that were one of our nations prime source of information for determining enemy activity during that period of time. I believe that when you are trusted with classified information there is no excuse for disclosing it. I further believe that this applies to all involved.

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Mighty 90's,Trying 4 a 100!