Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > General Topics > The Lounge
o

Notices

The Lounge A Catch-All Area for NON-GUN topics.
PUT GUN TOPICS in the GUN FORUMS.
Keep it Family Friendly. See The Rules for Banned Topics!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-12-2012, 09:24 PM
1bdvet's Avatar
1bdvet 1bdvet is offline
US Veteran
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Plantation Florida
Posts: 450
Likes: 102
Liked 414 Times in 86 Posts
Default The F4 Phantom Fighter

Here is book you might want to buy and read.

It's on sale on Amazon.com and in Barnes and Noble:

B&N
BARNES & NOBLE | The Phantom in Focus: A Navigator's Eye on Britain's Cold War Warrior by David Gledhill, Global Book Sales | Hardcover

Phantom In Focus - A Navigator's View on Britain's Cold War Warrior:

The Phantom in Focus<BR>A Navigator

I hope a few aircraft enthusiasts may buy it and I plan to donate to RAF charities.

__________________
USAF/RET. 1966-1990
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #2  
Old 11-12-2012, 09:34 PM
RonJ RonJ is offline
US Veteran
Absent Comrade
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 3,941
Likes: 4,106
Liked 2,582 Times in 1,106 Posts
Default

I was stationed seven miles from an airbase in northern Thailand. Would you believe the F4's would sometimes wake me up at 4 am while still on the runway? They were headed to N Viet Nam and I could only wish them well.
__________________
Regards, Ron
USASA 1965/69
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #3  
Old 11-12-2012, 10:10 PM
Texas Star Texas Star is offline
US Veteran
Absent Comrade
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 20,362
Likes: 24,260
Liked 16,154 Times in 7,408 Posts
Default

A good plane, but I recall a former Phantom pilot telling me that he found the F-15 Eagle to be far more agile. That counts a lot in a dogfight with a manueverable (sp?) Combloc fighter.

BTW, Prince Charles was a Phantom pilot after commanding a destroyer. If you see him in Naval uniform, look for the aviator wings on his sleeve.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #4  
Old 11-12-2012, 10:23 PM
Ron H.'s Avatar
Ron H. Ron H. is offline
US Veteran
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,521
Likes: 33
Liked 249 Times in 118 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1bdvet View Post
Here is book you might want to buy and read.

It's on sale on Amazon.com and in Barnes and Noble:

B&N
BARNES & NOBLE | The Phantom in Focus: A Navigator's Eye on Britain's Cold War Warrior by David Gledhill, Global Book Sales | Hardcover

Phantom In Focus - A Navigator's View on Britain's Cold War Warrior:

I hope a few aircraft enthusiasts may buy it and I plan to donate to RAF charities.
Sir, as I understand it, a lot of old F4 jocks are fond of saying, "If you're out of Phantoms, you're out of Phighters!"

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.
__________________
Wishin' don't make it so.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #5  
Old 11-12-2012, 10:29 PM
RonJ RonJ is offline
US Veteran
Absent Comrade
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 3,941
Likes: 4,106
Liked 2,582 Times in 1,106 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Star View Post
A good plane, but I recall a former Phantom pilot telling me that he found the F-15 Eagle to be far more agile. That counts a lot in a dogfight with a manueverable (sp?) Combloc fighter.

BTW, Prince Charles was a Phantom pilot after commanding a destroyer. If you see him in Naval uniform, look for the aviator wings on his sleeve.
A good pilot and the Phantoms ability to climb made up the difference. Go check the kill rate on the f4 vs the Migs. You might also want to check the performance of the 53 vette against the new ones.
__________________
Regards, Ron
USASA 1965/69
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #6  
Old 11-12-2012, 10:33 PM
Hobie1's Avatar
Hobie1 Hobie1 is offline
Member
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: West Central IL
Posts: 1,028
Likes: 477
Liked 325 Times in 148 Posts
Default

The F-4D was a formidable fighter/bomber in 'Nam. The Migs could out-turn it but they couldn't outrun it up down or straight ahead.
It's old today, no doubt. So am I.
Leave the knife fights and gunning to the young un's.

Hand Salute!

Hobie
__________________
Laissez les bons temps roulez!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #7  
Old 11-12-2012, 10:41 PM
Texas Star Texas Star is offline
US Veteran
Absent Comrade
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 20,362
Likes: 24,260
Liked 16,154 Times in 7,408 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonJ View Post
A good pilot and the Phantoms ability to climb made up the difference. Go check the kill rate on the f4 vs the Migs. You might also want to check the performance of the 53 vette against the new ones.
I understand that Allied and Israeli pilots were usually better than the enemy, but some Phantoms were lost tp enemy fighters. As far as I know, no F-15's have been lost.

But I meant no disrespect to the F-4 or those who flew them. Just saying that the Eagle is a better, later design. The pilot who flew both said that F-4 was slower and harder to turn.

I'll check the climb rate of the F-4 against that of the MiG-21.

Last edited by Texas Star; 11-12-2012 at 10:43 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-12-2012, 10:46 PM
ditrina's Avatar
ditrina ditrina is offline
Moderator
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Beach Side West Florida
Posts: 12,315
Likes: 26,780
Liked 19,400 Times in 4,088 Posts
Default

Nothin' like a couple of J79's in full AB.. about to get thrown of the front of a Carrier...



__________________
SWCA #2306
DAV in honor of POP
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
  #9  
Old 11-12-2012, 10:48 PM
msinc msinc is offline
Member
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,196
Likes: 1,243
Liked 931 Times in 432 Posts
Default

I got to ride in the front seat once. We were a radar target for an F-18. Up the Atlantic coast and back to the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay. When the pilot slowed down he said "get ready...this aint gonna feel to good", and it didn't. I thought I was going right thru the windshield. The harness actually hurt my shoulders. The Blue Angels haven't been the same since they quit flyin' the F-4.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-12-2012, 10:59 PM
Engineer1911's Avatar
Engineer1911 Engineer1911 is online now
US Veteran
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Augusta, GA
Posts: 6,113
Likes: 6,644
Liked 6,156 Times in 2,666 Posts
Default

The life of an F-4 aircraft mechanic was another story. My Memories were 10 months of a hydraulic leak and fuel leak flying in formation. The beast I had in Thailand could never be fixed, out of nine scheduled missions it had 8 ground aborts and one TOTAL loss of hydraulic power/hydraulic systems when it did get off the ground. Pilot was the squadron commander.

Oooooh those were the days. Single, E-5, and northern Thailand. Just call me Short because I will be a civilian after I leave here.
__________________
S&WHF 366
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #11  
Old 11-13-2012, 12:08 AM
mwtdvm mwtdvm is offline
Member
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Starkville, MS
Posts: 912
Likes: 135
Liked 233 Times in 106 Posts
Default My Uncle

was an Annapolis grad and had several tours off Viet Nam. I think he called the F4 a "flying refrigerator door". He also flew A4's and A6's and I think F8's. I got the idea he liked the attack planes better. He's been gone 21 years now and I still think fondly of him.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #12  
Old 11-13-2012, 12:13 AM
Sebago Son's Avatar
Sebago Son Sebago Son is offline
Member
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sebago Lake, Maine, USA
Posts: 5,435
Likes: 6,726
Liked 6,724 Times in 1,862 Posts
Default

The Loss to Kill Ratio between F-4's and MiG-17's & 21's improved dramatically after they added "the gun". Before that, reliance solely upon AIM's and Sparrows only gave the Phantom half it's potential.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #13  
Old 11-13-2012, 12:22 AM
Straightshooter2's Avatar
Straightshooter2 Straightshooter2 is offline
US Veteran
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: South of Gritville
Posts: 2,580
Likes: 1,113
Liked 2,547 Times in 1,006 Posts
Default

America's proof to the world that, given big enough engines, even a brick will fly. But, dang, what a brick. Only aircraft I've ever seen that just looked bad *** sitting still on the deck.

CW
__________________
μολὼν λαβέ
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-13-2012, 12:52 AM
Cyrano's Avatar
Cyrano Cyrano is offline
US Veteran
Absent Comrade
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,581
Likes: 13,500
Liked 6,743 Times in 2,526 Posts
Default

I was in the Army, but was working with USAF Air Defense Command. The F106 pilots sure loved it when they transitioned to the Phantom, not only was the performance a lot better but the radar was several leaps ahead of the 106's. The Air Force would have had it several years before except for the NIH factor.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-13-2012, 12:55 AM
luangtom's Avatar
luangtom luangtom is offline
US Veteran
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: North Hall County, GA
Posts: 1,382
Likes: 513
Liked 741 Times in 324 Posts
Default

She did look bad, especially after a run over NVN and back. Saw many a plane come back in with holes that woulda downed any other bird. Saw 'em come back in sans the canopy and still flying. She took a licking and kept on ticking...........

Same could be said for the old Goonie...C-47, whether it be EC-47, AC-47 or another configuration. She was a war-horse, just like the F-4 Phantoms.

The ground-pounders liked 'em, that's for sure. We'd help put out a call for fast-movers and in would come the F-4's............she saved many a youngman's tail in the SE Asia Games.
__________________
GA Carry member
Vietnam Vet
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #16  
Old 11-13-2012, 01:40 AM
LVSteve's Avatar
LVSteve LVSteve is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lost Wages, NV
Posts: 19,824
Likes: 24,243
Liked 28,988 Times in 10,769 Posts
Default

Paul Sprey of "Fighter Mafia" fame was always a critic of the type. Paraphrasing his thoughts on TV:

"Every bent up wing and drooping tail on that thing is an aerodynamic Band Aid. That plane is a turkey."

Back in England I lived in an area where they allowed low-level dogfight practice and the F-4s got owned by Tornados and especially Harriers. Even the Jaguars, another tricky handling airplane, gave them grief when in the weeds.

Engineer1911. I have an F-4 book where it is said that many a Vietnam theatre mechanic would have loved five minutes in a locked room with the clown that put the radio under the RIO's ejector seat. Due to the climate the radios failed and the seat had to come out with all that added "fun".
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #17  
Old 11-13-2012, 02:01 AM
semperfi71's Avatar
semperfi71 semperfi71 is offline
US Veteran
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Central New Mexico
Posts: 2,677
Likes: 1,179
Liked 1,116 Times in 409 Posts
Default

Worked a ton of F-4s in MCAS Yuma for three and a half years as an air traffic controller.

Every morning at a few mimutes to 6:00 A.M. a pair of Phantoms taxied to 21R and took off at exactly 06:00 A.M. Exactly. We opened the tower at that time and as we climbed the catwalk they would be holding short of the runway, waiting for us.

When the launched it was full afterburner, seven days a week. The entire city of Yuma could hear them and complained but they were flying the border as a defense measure so the complaints were ignored.

I expect it was akin to the F4F Grumman Wildcat, outclassed by almost anything the Japanes had but able to defeat them by smarter flying tactics.

We too heard that the Harriers could outfight an F4 at the lower altitudes.
__________________
Have guns...will shoot'em.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-13-2012, 02:46 AM
Beemerguy53's Avatar
Beemerguy53 Beemerguy53 is offline
Member
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Maryland
Posts: 5,639
Likes: 28,732
Liked 16,792 Times in 3,842 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Straightshooter2 View Post
America's proof to the world that, given big enough engines, even a brick will fly. But, dang, what a brick. Only aircraft I've ever seen that just looked bad *** sitting still on the deck.

CW
Throughout aviation history, there are some airplanes that just look like fighters...if you didn't know a thing about aviation, you would understand what they're built for just by looking at them.

In my mind, the Phantom leads that list, followed closely by the P-51 Mustang, the F-86 Sabre, and the F-15 Eagle.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #19  
Old 11-13-2012, 02:52 AM
Beemerguy53's Avatar
Beemerguy53 Beemerguy53 is offline
Member
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Maryland
Posts: 5,639
Likes: 28,732
Liked 16,792 Times in 3,842 Posts
Default

One of the best books I have ever read on air combat is "Once A Fighter Pilot" by Jerry Cook. It's a no-nonsense, unvarnished account of his 200+ missions in Vietnam flying Phantoms. I actually wrote a review of it on Amazon, and I can recommend it without qualification to anyone interested the the F-4 and its combat history...

Once A Fighter Pilot: Jerry Cook: 0639785336921: Amazon.com: Books
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-13-2012, 04:19 AM
steveno steveno is offline
Member
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Minden , Nebraska
Posts: 2,850
Likes: 1,194
Liked 4,318 Times in 1,420 Posts
Default

I was TDY to Incirlik AB in Turkey in November of 1971. there was F-4's flying most of the time and the transient barracks were steel quansot huts and that is not a good combination. those huts really rattled
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 11-13-2012, 05:47 AM
Skeptic 9c's Avatar
Skeptic 9c Skeptic 9c is offline
Member
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Northeastern Florida
Posts: 1,826
Likes: 4,981
Liked 5,599 Times in 1,016 Posts
Default

According to the wisdom of the day the Phantom II was selected when the MD design proposal team went to the Pentagon with their proposal and a sleek and beautiful model of the fighter. As they arrived there was a confusion as they exited the elevator and the beautiful model was dropped, kicked and caught in the elevator door. The chief bean counter, near to tears, held the disaster in his hands. At that moment a Four-star Admiral walked up, pointed at the broken twisted model and said, "That's what we need! Original thinking!" The rest is a 5000 aircraft plus history.
Geoff
Who notes the usual military euphemisms for "once upon a time."
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-13-2012, 08:42 AM
4"wheels 4"wheels is offline
Member
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 32
Likes: 14
Liked 19 Times in 11 Posts
Default

Kinda off topic, didn't one of the car mags do a "road test" on the
F=4. "Road & Track" I think, early 70's.
__________________
Register & Vote
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-13-2012, 08:42 AM
1bdvet's Avatar
1bdvet 1bdvet is offline
US Veteran
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Plantation Florida
Posts: 450
Likes: 102
Liked 414 Times in 86 Posts
Default

F4
__________________
USAF/RET. 1966-1990
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #24  
Old 11-13-2012, 09:27 AM
MarineSgtjimh MarineSgtjimh is offline
US Veteran
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Star Valley, Arizona
Posts: 279
Likes: 302
Liked 180 Times in 86 Posts
Default

I was with VMFA 334 in 1969 and 1970. We had the F-4J aircraft. My squadron suffered 4 combat losses, all from ground fire. The Phantom was and still is my favorite aircraft. It just looks good and the J model could handle 16000 pounds of external stores.

Semper Fi Marine Aviation
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #25  
Old 11-13-2012, 11:10 AM
safearm's Avatar
safearm safearm is offline
Member
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 1,753
Likes: 232
Liked 687 Times in 252 Posts
Default

I flew the RF-4C through 1992 when it was finally retired. It was a good aircraft, generally reliable, used a LOT of gas down low, even with the new smokeless engines. The ring-laser gyros in the last navigation system were magnificent, and we finally got the AIM9 about a year before retirement (we were paid to take pictures, not dogfight!). With all that said, the F-15E is a much better aircraft (equal comparison - two seat, two engine, multi-role fighters).
One note, the British variant of the F4 had the Rolls Royce engines, not the GE J79.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #26  
Old 11-13-2012, 11:18 AM
CW Spook's Avatar
CW Spook CW Spook is offline
US Veteran
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: South of the Laurentian D
Posts: 1,063
Likes: 221
Liked 511 Times in 222 Posts
Default

I remember staying in a motel close to Lambert in about 1967 and hearing F4s from McDonnell-Douglas launching w/full AB at sunup. The first time it happened I thought they were coming through the roof. 2 years later I was watching them (and the F-8s) fly over the shooting range and firefighting grounds at RTC San Diego.
__________________
Rick, W0FG
CTR2 68-72
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 11-13-2012, 12:37 PM
sceva's Avatar
sceva sceva is offline
SWCA Member
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NE IL but I'm from Ohio
Posts: 2,047
Likes: 116
Liked 3,006 Times in 876 Posts
Default

Over 5000 Phamtom's of various types were made - More than ANY other combat aircraft since WWII half went to the USAF and about 27% went to teh US navy anmd Marines. Source : "McDonnel Douglas - A Tale of Two giants" by Bill Yenne

That kind of production says a lot about how good an aircraft it was. It may have leaked and been hard on the maintainence people; it may have been less agile; but it was a GREAT plane anf many are still flying.

I may be a little predjudiced though being an ex McDonnell Douglas Employee ( Douglas Aircraft side - I hald many of the parts on the first C-17's in my hands as a Quality Engineer there)
__________________
Sceva
OGCA SWCA NRA
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #28  
Old 11-13-2012, 02:52 PM
Dpris Dpris is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,016
Likes: 0
Liked 679 Times in 313 Posts
Default

Stationed at a base in England for two years, split mission: F4 camera planes & nuclear bomb storage.
Guarded a lot of both.

The afterburner comment brings back memories.

There was a tradition that pilots retiring from that base took up a stripped F4 (no wing tanks) for their last flight.
Full burner & damn near straight up.
Denis
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 11-13-2012, 02:52 PM
IFFV's Avatar
IFFV IFFV is offline
US Veteran
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 54
Likes: 3
Liked 26 Times in 8 Posts
Default

I would like thank those who flew the F-4.
They saved many lives in Vietnam. I may have been one of those in the Central Highlands one Black Night during the 1968 Tet Offense.
I don't care how they flew. They flew good enough for me.
R.
Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Like Post:
  #30  
Old 11-13-2012, 03:32 PM
dcxplant's Avatar
dcxplant dcxplant is offline
Member
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 1,284
Likes: 401
Liked 845 Times in 405 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1bdvet View Post
Now THAT is flying!!!

No mamby-pamby fly by wire like the FA-18, buh!

That was a real workout in those F4's man, thanks for sharing.

I worked on F4S's in the Marines at MCAS Beaufort, SC before we gave them up for FA-18's

Yes the J79 had accessories all over the dang thing needing an engine drop to do easy maintenance, but by golly that smoky, smelly, leaky, stinky beast was one of a kind and we loved her!! I think there is still some soot under my left index finger's nail from all the fasteners I've taken in and out of that thing's perpetually oily underside!

The FA-18 to us was like a Honda; cute and reliable.

The transition was like going from a 1950's Harley-Davidson XLCH Sportster (THE original hairy-chested superbike) to a 70's Honda CB 400.

PS
Remember: it's not noise, it's the sound of FREEDOM baby!

Last edited by dcxplant; 11-13-2012 at 03:38 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #31  
Old 11-13-2012, 04:47 PM
Oddball's Avatar
Oddball Oddball is offline
US Veteran
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: E Tn
Posts: 125
Likes: 243
Liked 89 Times in 44 Posts
Default

The first AFB I was stationed on had F-4's on it. I always thought and still do that they looked wicked just sitting still. As for noise, they couldn't hold a candle to a B-52 running up it's engines during a test. Our barracks were a couple of miles from the flight line and the windows would rattle.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 11-13-2012, 04:58 PM
Dpris Dpris is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,016
Likes: 0
Liked 679 Times in 313 Posts
Default

Guarded the Buffs, too.
They certainly could be loud.
Denis
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 11-13-2012, 05:01 PM
Flathead Flathead is offline
Member
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Nevada
Posts: 155
Likes: 2
Liked 67 Times in 42 Posts
Default

I remember an instructor in "A" school telling us the F4, like the bumblebee, aerodynamically couldn't fly. The thrust from those powerful engines was the key.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 11-13-2012, 05:24 PM
JamesArthur60's Avatar
JamesArthur60 JamesArthur60 is offline
US Veteran
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 1,333
Likes: 139
Liked 311 Times in 124 Posts
Thumbs up

Ah, a classy fighter. But, having been assigned to SAC, bombers rule for me.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 11-13-2012, 05:42 PM
GLV GLV is offline
US Veteran
Absent Comrade
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Indiana
Posts: 640
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 3 Posts
Default Member of SAC for 19 years,

and the two birds I liked pass gas to the most were the B-58, and the F-4.

Both had very fine pilots, and both could pull into refueling position with little guidance from the boomer. Very stable while getting their gas. Passed gas to lots of F-4s on their way to and from targets.
__________________
the world is round everywhere
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 11-13-2012, 06:25 PM
RhinoDave's Avatar
RhinoDave RhinoDave is offline
US Veteran
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 16
Likes: 8
Liked 13 Times in 3 Posts
Default

Hey GLVO these might bring back a few memories. Taken over the Gulf of Tonkin. Sorry for the pic quality but they are scans from some very old b&w pics.


Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Like Post:
  #37  
Old 11-13-2012, 07:17 PM
mkk41 mkk41 is offline
Banned
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: South East , PA . USA
Posts: 5,027
Likes: 485
Liked 1,610 Times in 884 Posts
Default

The Phantom was never intended to be a 'dogfighter'. It was designed to be an 'interceptor' with long range missles. Big powerful engines and flat out , straight-away speed. Handling wasn't even in the equation. Early versions didn't even have a gun.

It's replacements , the F-14 Tomcat and F-15 Eagle were to be dogfighters from the get-go.

We had a bunch of F-4s when I was in Aviation Ordnance "A" school , to learn loading bombs (MER's & TER's) , missles , gun & rocket pods , etc.

Always liked these pics.





Actually , my favorite fighter was the spiffy little F-5 Tiger. They could turn circles around and inside any MiG.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #38  
Old 11-13-2012, 07:42 PM
MarineSgtjimh MarineSgtjimh is offline
US Veteran
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Star Valley, Arizona
Posts: 279
Likes: 302
Liked 180 Times in 86 Posts
Default

something for the Phantom Phixers and Phlyers

Semper Fi
Attached Images
File Type: jpg yhst-23314603045573_2165_1209759272.jpg (12.3 KB, 39 views)
File Type: jpg mag 13.jpg (21.1 KB, 81 views)
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 11-13-2012, 07:49 PM
Dpris Dpris is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,016
Likes: 0
Liked 679 Times in 313 Posts
Default

I worked SAC & TAC, the 52s were big ungainly critters, the Phantoms I always thought were pretty sharp.
Ours in England only had cameras & flashbulbs, no armament. Still looked mean.
Denis
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #40  
Old 11-13-2012, 07:59 PM
GLV GLV is offline
US Veteran
Absent Comrade
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Indiana
Posts: 640
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 3 Posts
Default Thanks RhinoDave,

long time ago, I retired in 70, but the pictures are great. I have some somewhere, but don't know where.

A few years ago I was invited on a community flight in a KC 135. Could have been a bird that my crew picked up at Boeing, who knows? New Fan engines, gone are the J 57s, no sextant or stand, but still a fine bird. Could well be on it's third generation of crew members.

Thanks for your post, George
__________________
the world is round everywhere
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 11-13-2012, 08:05 PM
Dpris Dpris is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,016
Likes: 0
Liked 679 Times in 313 Posts
Default

Spent a lotta time walking around KCs, too.
And the occasional EC-135.
Ancient history.
Denis
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 11-13-2012, 08:23 PM
sigp220.45's Avatar
sigp220.45 sigp220.45 is offline
US Veteran
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 8,075
Likes: 27,790
Liked 33,579 Times in 5,253 Posts
Default

We had RF4Cs when I was stationed at Bergstrom AFB in Austin, TX. We called them "Texas Lawn Darts" - they were pretty old then and I worked two crashes in the two or three years I was there.

I loved those birds, though. If you've ever had a low fly-over by a flight of F4s it is something you never forget.
__________________
“What you got, ain’t new.”
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 11-14-2012, 02:54 AM
Bat Guano Bat Guano is offline
Member
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 3,260
Likes: 1,224
Liked 2,526 Times in 1,043 Posts
Default

8TFW, Ubon, Thailand--"World's Largest Distributor Of MiG Parts".
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #44  
Old 11-14-2012, 01:05 PM
bobcat's Avatar
bobcat bobcat is offline
US Veteran
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Great Falls, Montana
Posts: 600
Likes: 581
Liked 581 Times in 179 Posts
Default

As a zoomie for most of my formative years, she's one of my favorite birds. Just something about all those angles I guess. I have a framed NoDak Air Guard Centennial Phantom print on my wall right now that I look at everyday while on my computer, and I've got another print my dad gave me a long time ago (F-4C) that I need to get framed.

I was stationed at Incirlik CDI, Turkey for 15 months in the 70's, and every morning and evening 2 F-4's would roll to the end of the active, hit those burners, and we're off. They used to rotate out of Spain every (60?) days because the story we always heard was that anything that stayed in Turkey for more than 60 days became the property of Turkey.

I used to take photos of every Phantom I encountered just cause. She may have not been perfect, but she earned her due in Vietnam and during the Cold War. I believe that there are few foreign Air Forces that still fly it. Carry on old girl...

Last edited by bobcat; 11-14-2012 at 01:07 PM. Reason: spelling
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #45  
Old 11-14-2012, 01:16 PM
TAROMAN's Avatar
TAROMAN TAROMAN is offline
US Veteran
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: The wet side of Oregon
Posts: 6,290
Likes: 8,789
Liked 7,778 Times in 2,375 Posts
Default

A Marine friend (F4 Wizzo) summed it up for me:
"You can make a brick fly if you put big enough engines on it."
__________________
-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

Last edited by TAROMAN; 11-14-2012 at 01:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 11-14-2012, 04:47 PM
Bullzaye Bullzaye is offline
US Veteran
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 759
Likes: 77
Liked 544 Times in 226 Posts
Default

I was in Tech School in 1978 at Lowry AFB, Denver, CO. I was training to work the Avionics system (MA-1) on the F-106A/B Delta Dart, and our class rooms were right next to the F-4 guys. Whenever we were on break, everyone would stand around and insult each other's plane.

I loved the old F-106. It was very technologically advanced for the day, and a very smart looking plane. I always thought the F-4 was kinda ugly...but I have to admit, it looked kind of mean and sinister as well. While I believe the F-106 was the better interceptor, as that was really its only role ,the F-4 was obviously much more multi-role...it had better missiles, could carry bombs and various "pods" (rockets, guns, ECM, etc.). But, for intercepting squadrons of bombers...the F-106 had the speed (the F-106 still holds the official record as the fastest single engine jet, setting the world speed record on 15 December 1959, claiming a new speed of 1,525.95 mph {Mach 2.31} at an altitude of 40,000 ft), was difficult to jam (much more so than the F-4s, at least according to the B-52 crews who had flown against all kinds of fighters) and it carried a nuclear rocket, meant to down entire formations of bombers with one shot.

I also remember the noise of the B-52s when I was stationed in Upstate NY. The old mobile home I was living in was situated near the end of the runway, and when I was working nights, and trying to sleep during the day, those "BUFFs" would rattle me out of my bed several times a day. It was even worse in the winter, when the B-52s (as well as the KC-135s) would use water injection, making them even louder.

Ahhh...the good old days! I do miss the "sound of freedom".

Tim
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #47  
Old 11-14-2012, 08:19 PM
reddogge's Avatar
reddogge reddogge is offline
Member
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Finksburg, MD
Posts: 1,209
Likes: 443
Liked 900 Times in 379 Posts
Default

My good friend and fraternity brother Al "Peaches" Bennett flew F4s for two tours in Vietnam. He told me he mostly did ground attack missions with them. One interesting story was he had to fly a training mission with Chuck Yeager when he was in the reserves. He prepped the plane, loaded all the data into the computers (did they have them?), and Yeager came out and didn't say a work and jumped into the plane and flew the bombing training mission, flawlessly Al added. They landed and Yeager got out and never acknowledged Al was even there.

Sadly Al died two years ago in an auto accident.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 11-14-2012, 09:01 PM
bobf's Avatar
bobf bobf is offline
US Veteran
The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NW Florida
Posts: 638
Likes: 647
Liked 483 Times in 146 Posts
Default

Some are now QF-4 drones at Tyndall AFB.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 11-14-2012, 09:25 PM
deanodog deanodog is offline
US Veteran
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: KY
Posts: 3,568
Likes: 4,479
Liked 1,189 Times in 509 Posts
Default

I worked on the flight line while in the AF as a mechanic and always loved the sounds of all types taking off. I loved the looks of the B-47 bomber and the B-52 taking off and landing. I also saw some B-36s landing. Nothing else sounded like they did. I grew to love all of them.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 11-14-2012, 11:30 PM
rdcl rdcl is offline
Member
The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter The F4 Phantom Fighter  
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Westlake Ohio
Posts: 511
Likes: 178
Liked 741 Times in 192 Posts
Default

Great thread! I'm a long time phantom-phreak myself. Unfortunately, my only connection to this phabulous aircraft is through books & model-making. Here are some of my f-4 models.......all are 1/32 scale. I have more un-built kits yet to go!
The F4 Phantom Fighter-f4-020-jpg
The F4 Phantom Fighter-f4-021-jpg
The F4 Phantom Fighter-f4-010-jpg
The F4 Phantom Fighter-f4-019-jpg
The F4 Phantom Fighter-f4-006-jpg
Attached Images
File Type: jpg f4 020.jpg (116.5 KB, 841 views)
File Type: jpg f4 021.jpg (101.5 KB, 836 views)
File Type: jpg f4 010.jpg (95.1 KB, 837 views)
File Type: jpg f4 019.jpg (93.2 KB, 835 views)
File Type: jpg f4 006.jpg (97.0 KB, 836 views)
Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Like Post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Phantom Pain SW MP15 The Lounge 18 08-04-2016 08:13 PM
RCS Phantom for M&P FS w/tlr-1 Master_dekoy Accessories/Misc - For Sale or Trade 0 04-21-2016 10:02 PM
Raven Phantom ???? D-Hop Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols 10 05-15-2013 09:06 AM
*SOLD* LH Raven Phantom M&P9c paragon1 Accessories/Misc - For Sale or Trade 1 02-27-2010 03:40 PM
The Phantom Bullseye 2620 The Lounge 18 10-07-2009 11:25 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:47 PM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)