Twice this week, I ran across listings for guns that I was interrested in. In both of them, presumably from different sellers, was the disclaimer, "Please be sure that your ffl is okay with recieving guns from a non ffl". I called the guy that I use, and he said that all handguns need to go from dealer to dealer. These are not antique guns. Is my ffl being too cautious, or is he unaware of something? Any advice?

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Why, I aughta.....

I've bought many guns from non ffls that my ffl was happy to receive for me.Maybe some states have stricter laws?

It's basically up to the FFL holder whether or not he will accept shipments from a non licensee. Rifles and shotguns can be shipped by the seller directly to an FFL holder who then transfers the item to the buyer IAW the regulations in their state. In the case of a handgun, the gun must be shipped by a common carrier...UPS or Fed Ex...so the seller would have to go thru an FFL on their end. If going from an FFL to an FFL, handguns may be shipped via the USPS.

Not exactly right, an individual can ship a firearm overnight or 2nd day air to any FFL or factory. They do not have have an FFL to ship them, they must be shipped to an FFL, only an FFL can trasnfer the firearm to the new buyer legally.

What an individual can't do is ship to a Non-FFL like a factory, gunsmith etc on gun that are already registered to the recipient.

Yeah, I was wrong on that one point...non FFL can ship a handgun to an FFL, but it has to go next day, sometimes second day as you said. Handguns can go USPS but only from FFL to FFL. Thanks for clarifying.

Most of it is just the FFL being cautious by having the gun come from another FFL.
That way if there is a problem (say it shows up later as stolen, used in an assault) and the investigation comes to his door step in tracking the ser#, he can simply show that he received it from that FFL w/their lic# ect.

If it came from an individual, many FFL's believe it may leave them in a bad position should that same investigation come to them & the name/address of the individual he received the gun from turns out to be false .

An 01 FFL # & info they can verify on line.
Much the same reason many FFL's won't deal with an 03 C&R FFL. They can't verify that 03FFL info on line.

That's how they look at it.
All that in spite of what the GCA68 law says. But it's their name and business on the license and they feel it's better to do things their way in order to keep that license.

State Law can play a part.
In New York at least, an 01 FFL can receive a handgun from out of state only from another FFL. Even if the handgun is being shipped in for gunsmith work only (no transfer of ownership),,NYS wants that gun to come from another FFL. It also must be shipped back out to an FFL.

There may be others in this corner of the planet.

WHY does a handgun HAVE to go Overnight or 2nd day air??

Is that a BATF regulation? I thought that was a UPS deal due to excessive internal theft.

It's might be cheaper to ship FFL to FFL as they can use USPS flat rate mail which costs about $15. If a non FFL has to ship overnight UPS or FedX then the Minimum charge is about $65 and once you add insurance and delivery confirmation and a couple other BS fees they tack on for restricted items your up to about $125 - my FFL charges $25 to $40 depending on the insur and receipts wanted, so it is cheaper.

I believe those laws are only for interstate shipping. Any unlicensed individual can ship to another unlicensed individual as long as both are residents of the same state, state laws may apply.

Someone correct me if I am wrong.

That is the shipper's rule. UPS and Fed Ex both require either overnight or 2nd. There is no Federal reg about shipping time.

Long guns only.
f.t.

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South Carolina-God's country

Wrong.

You can ship any gun - rifle, pistol or shotgun - to a resident of your state, just like you can sell any gun face to face to a resident standing in front of you. FFL is needed when the gun crosses state lines.

Unless, of course, you live in one of those states that have stricter laws. California and Michigan immediately spring to mind. But the question was about Federal laws, not state.

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I always take precautions

Could you show me the reg that requires ths?

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Sure you did

Correct. Here is the Federal Law:

ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Unlicensed Persons

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Still Running Against the Wind

Gunsmiths need to be FFL's so I do not know about the NY laws.

ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Gunsmiths

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Still Running Against the Wind

"What an individual can't do is ship to a Non-FFL like a factory, gunsmith etc on gun that are already registered to the recipient."
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A "FACTORY" will hold an FFL as a manufacturer.... A gunsmith will also hold at least an 01 FFL....(if he holds customer's firearm(s) overnight)..
JIM................................

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SWCA # L-1911

Thanks guys. That's a lot of information. Some of it makes perfect sense.

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Why, I aughta.....

It came to me in form of a cover letter and instructions from the NYSP when they switched to a new style P12 form for NYS Dealers & Gunsmiths.
Of course I can not find that letter now even after tossing the place.

It did very clearly state that any handgun coming to me (as a NYS Dealer and/or Gunsmith) from an out of state source,,that source must be an FFL.

The NYS Dealer and or Gunsmith license holder must also have a valid FFL,,that's part of the application & renewal process.

The P12 form itself only allows recording of either the pistol permit holder,,another NYS Dealer/Gunsmith,,or an FFL. of the party from which you receive the handgun.

I called them and asked about it, they said it was to make sure a solid paper trail was established for each handgun that enters the State (NY).
Their call..

I will keep looking for the letter. I saved it for instances such as this as I have had others question as to why I wouldn't or couldn't accept a handgun from an individual if it was coming from O/O/S.

All that said,, I know of NYS Dealers that have NEVER filed a P12,,ever. A few that never send one in if it's a dealer to dealer transfer.
One was still using the old style form 8 years after it was pulled. BUT, the forms came from the P/P bureau of the County he's licensed in,,I guess they didn't get the memo or the new ones from the Attica Print Shop either.
...and the NYSP has never kicked one back on him because of improper form or lack of info. The newer P12 has much more detailed info on it.

I've gotten them kicked back with a big red circle around my 'error'. 'Update and resubmit' it says.

The NYSP Firearms Permit Bureau in Albany can maybe give you a better explanation with (General Business?) Law sections and such.
[email protected]

I've had the NYS Dealer and a Gunsmith license for 43 years now. Just renewed it for another 3, though I have yet to receive the actual licenses.
It's only been 7 months and they don't expire till 12/12.
Last time it only took 16 months to do the renewal.
Between the State and the Countys ,who tend to make their own rules up as they go along,, to call it a confusing and frustrating system is being polite.

Sorry for the long post...

FWIW they couldn't tell me where the exemption was in the NYS law that allows NYS Dealers to display off premises(Gunshows),,but they say there is one.
At least I've got their old letter,,I just can't find it right now!