Spent some time today looking over the gun auction sites, I feel better now about my slim collection, seems like every gun ever made is (pick one) - Rare - hard to find - one of a kind- unusual, etc.

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Register & Vote

Yup, the interwebz makes them all hyper rare and collectible!!!

To be fair, while it is exceedingly trite and overused, 'rare' as far as many models of S&W's are concerned is an apt description in many locales. Prior to the internet, living in a backwater like I do there are guns that I read about for years that were rarely seen locally and if one did show up the prices were obscene.

The scuttlebutt was in talking to a couple of retail managers back in the 70's that stores could order from the distributors ( days before anyone did direct factory ordering) but the manufacturers reps, jobbers, and territorial managers funneled the plums to their best customers and were not shy about jacking prices through the roof to those who did get them regardless of what the factory said they were supposed to sell for. Supply and demand - it's always been so.

Those who bemoan the current pricing on the ones they'd like to buy have the advantage of searching the entire country to find what they want - but if it's a hot item and production is not in keeping with demand or production of that particular model has ceased you pay premium or do without. Like I said, it's overused, but the "rare" could apply in a sense to prelock model 18 S&W's. Compared to say the model 10's or 19's there were far less produced, the gun is in high demand, and if you want a nice one you pay a premium. Of course, I know the OP was referring to the creative souls who list model 10's and the like as 'rare'.

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Qui plantavit curabit

Mom alsways told me there is no two snowflakes alike.

Even "Lock" Model 18's are rare now as they are out of production!!

Please remember every firearm is unique, just like its' owner, just like everybody else.

Condition, rarity and provenance. Or something like that, "ya pays yer money and ya takes yer choice".

I can't remember the last gun I saw at a gunshow that wasn't "rare." Joe

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Wisdom chases me; I'm faster

Or the other side of the coin that says your 'trade' gun is: undesireable, hard to sell, poor condition, or over-valued by the owner.

Before the Internet and S&W locks, there were more used S&W revolvers on the shelf in one week than I could afford to buy in one YEAR. I haven't seen a non-lock revolver on anybody's shelf in 4 years and I bought that one, M586 blue w/4" barrel square butt OTD $300.

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S&WHF 366

Rare gun. That would be my XDm in 9mm. Ultra rare and LNIB.

The only rare guns I see seem to be the ones I want to buy.

Don't forget "Minty"!

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James L. "Jim" Rhiner

nframe- you are precisely right about smiths back in the 70's. i was in the business then and that's how it was. they were in the shotgun business, reloading, ammo, leather. if they would have spent that money on production of guns they would have been better off.

EDIT: I was going to write about drillings only, but wound up basically doing a post on rarity vs. desirability and an attempt to define rarity.

So, I have two very nice drillings. You know, a SxS shotgun with a rifle barrel underneath it. On the whole, they're rather pricey...but mainly due to desirability, not true rarity...



The Drilling on top is a Teschner-Collath 16 Ga. x 16 Ga. x 9.3x72R. Although it's true that the 16 gauges are a bit more desirable than those in the funky Collath gauges, they're also more common. Furthermore, this particular gun was the entry-level model. Some Teschner-Collaths really ARE rare, but this one isn't. I let it sit for almost three years before asking the guy if he could do better. He immediately dropped $500 off the price and I had myself a nice gun.

The drilling on the bottom was not advertised as rare. But that's exactly what it is. It's a September 1924-proofed Waffenfabrik Simson for Iver Johnson Sporting Goods gun, either pre-production or uncatalogued production (lasted four months; September 1924-December 1924). The other giveaways are the serial number not having its own block and the rifle barrel being factory-chambered for 8x50R Mannlicher, not the advertised .30-30 (catalogued starting in 1925, I am aware of the existince of just one gun, another September '24-proofed gun, chambered in 8x50R Mannlicher). Although the proof date, caliber, and serial number lends credibility to its extreme scarcity, the gun was never particularly popular. It was a German attempt by a truly fine gunmaker at Americanizing the drilling (check out the stock without a cheekpiece and longer barrels than you'd expect on a German drilling). In short, that didn't work. A bit more detailed answer is that it was just after WWI, for one thing, and we Americans have never been particularly receptive to the idea of drillings; guns designed to accomplish a universal purpose that would be served just as well in the US in 1924 with an A.H. Fox Sterlingworth and a Winchester Model 1895...for about half the price. It's rare, sure, but ultimately, I can't say it's desirable.

That brings me to this gun, which I do truly love...





Have a look at the serial number. If you asked yourself if this was one of the very first Colt Commanders ever made for the civilian market, the answer would of course be yes. Cool! And that's about it. Unless a serial number can be traced to a particular famous individual (Audie Murphy's personal Garand or something of that nature), no matter how high or low, it probably doesn't make much difference. Now, if you're looking for a specific Colt Commander made before the Series 70 modifications, that's different. But it's more of a desirable gun than a rare gun. And then we have this...





Actually, Enfield No. 2 Mk. I revolvers without bobbed hammers and with the pictured grip variation are pretty uncommon, so probably a bad example. But this one has one added rarity: an RAF property stamp making it one of only six with RAF provenance in the United States. But that isn't well-known. The guy I bought the gun from (via Gunbroker) was unaware there were THAT few; he was selling it as an uncommon No. 2 Mk. I with all-matching numbers, no import mark, and original grips/no force-matching in addition to the RAF property stamp. Is this one genuinely rare? Yes. But is it uniquely desirable? Probably not.



Lowest known serial number on an Albanian SKS is 0187, which you're looking at. Sub-250 serial number block means it's pre-production. But it's not desirable. Or, if it is, it's only as desirable as any other Albanian SKS. Frankly, Albanian SKS's are probably not very common at all. But they're also less desirable than the Soviet SKS's, which, despite being very common (except for the factory firing pin spring models), are perceived as better-built and better-shooting.

If I put out any gun on a table at a hypothetical gunshow to reflect its true value, I'm guessing this one would probably go first...



This is a World War II-vintage (sorta; it was issued after VJ Day) M1 Garand. The original stock and handguard rotted and the stock it's wearing is a repro (the metal parts are correct, though). The original barrel was shot out and it was replaced by a Danish VAR barrel. The rest, however, is just as it was issued in late 1945. It never went through the DCM or CMP. That fact is actually somewhat uncommon, but I have no papers to back it up. I took the word of my friend, who in turn took the word of the guy who brought it back. He wasn't charging extra and neither was my pal. The M1 Garand, even with bar-lock rear sight, is not a rare rifle, but you can be sure it's a desirable one and likely always will be.

Then there are guns that are desirable now, and it really depends on a lot of things whether they'll continue to be desirable...



Romarm Draco, bought it when it first was released. You wouldn't believe how great this thing is with a five-round mag off a bench at 100 yards. With the current political situation, I've seen the price QUADRUPLE from what I bought this one for. Although we can't assume anything regarding guns like this one, there is always the possibility that a gun-friendly president replaces Obama in 2016 and that no legislation is passed that bans this gun. To which I ask: what then? Does the price sink like a stone as it did with many AR-15's and US-compliant AK's after the AWB sunsetted? Even if you're not into politics, it's actually quite a fascinating question to ponder from a marketing standpoint. The Draco is close to being one of the ultimate guns in rational artificial markets due to its low MSR initially and then subsequent price spike, but it is an artificial market in technical terms nonetheless (at the very least for now). Only time will tell with this one.

I like steaks rare, but never minty. I once read that in the back in the 60s, the standard transmission of the base 300HP/327cu.in. Corvette, was a 3 speed. Only 25 such equipped cars came off the assembly line. Are they rare? Absolutely. Are they desirable, because of their rarity? No. Do they command a premium because of their rarity? No.

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Wayne
Torn & Frayed

Don't forget the 1958 DeSoto D100 Stepside Ute (what we would call a pickup truck; it was distinctly different from Aussie car-based utes) in right-hand drive assembled at Chrysler's Mile End facility in Australia. Badge-engineered for Australia, I think ONE still exists, and aside from having two headlights instead of four, it's exactly the same as the Dodge D100 and Fargo C100 that were sold on the same market. It's rarer than the average Rolls-Royce Landaulet, but that hardly means it's more desirable!

Only 593 firearms that are rare on GB for sale right now, and only 3 of those a minty.

Every time I leave a gunshop I think two things
1. I'd rather have what I've got than what's in their display case.
2. If I could get for my guns 90% of what they're asking for theirs, I'd be one happy camper.
3. I have to pee.

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Forum consigliere

Not only are all my guns rare, they are all "collectible!!"