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Old 01-21-2013, 01:44 PM
crofoot629 crofoot629 is offline
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UPDATE: State Police Confirm Weapons Used in Newtown Shootings UPDATE: State Police Confirm Weapons Used in Newtown Shootings  
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Default UPDATE: State Police Confirm Weapons Used in Newtown Shootings

I was suspicious of the government withholding or even lying about the types of weapons used by the New Town murderer.

I now think the situation was just too chaotic, and there was incorrect information reported immediately following the event. PARTICUALRY the MSNBC “news” video reporting there were only handguns used in the shooting.

Below is a more recent news report and link.
I think the stated facts in this news report I’ve posted fit the facts as I know them.


Complete Article-
UPDATE: State Police Confirm Weapons Used in Newtown Shootings Independent Journal Review

UPDATE: State Police Confirm Weapons Used in Newtown Shootings
Kyle Becker January 21, 2013 7:38 am
The Connecticut State Police released a statement on January 18th attempting to clarify the confusion generated by the inconsistent and irresponsible media reporting following the Sandy Hook elementary shooting in Newtown on December 14th.


The weapons seized from the attacker Adam Lanza are as follows, according to the State Police:

#1. Bushmaster .223 caliber– model XM15-E2S rifle with high capacity 30 round clips

#2. Glock 10 mm handgun

#3. Sig-Sauer P226 9mm handgun

Seized from suspect’s car in parking lot:

#4. Izhmash Canta-12 12 gauge Shotgun (seized from car in parking lot)
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Old 01-21-2013, 01:50 PM
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Wow, that's kind of anti-media. Its like they are actually going after the media and pointing out their agenda to politicize the story. I like that.
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Old 01-21-2013, 02:17 PM
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If you watched any of the coverage, you had to notice the confusion, contradictions, and attempts to fill air space with any words available. The term "feeding frenzy" comes to mind. That Piers Morgan showed up as a spokesman for the event shows the caliber of the reporting. The fact that most of the coverage was by people whose gun training was from adventure movies by action heros really helped. Be nice if reporters were required to have knowledge of what the covered. But that would probably infringe on their First Amendment rights.
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Old 01-21-2013, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
In addition, while there were a number of early reports that an “assault rifle” was used in the shooting, CNN ran an update that a shotgun was in the trunk of the car, and not a rifle. Although there apparently is no “Canta-12,” there is a Russian model that translates to “Saiga-12” (as a Russian speaker, I can confirm this).
If the person looking at Saiga in Cyrillic did not realise it was in a different alphabet and thought they were seeing a highly stylized Latin script, then they could come up with "Canta".
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Old 01-21-2013, 07:25 PM
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Were the words used here literally those of the CT State Police or of the poster?

I do appreciate the clarification, but am dismayed that they couldn't correctly ID a Saiga shotgun. Any state police agency should have people qualified to do that.

Last edited by Texas Star; 01-21-2013 at 07:28 PM.
  #6  
Old 01-21-2013, 07:44 PM
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Saiga in Russian Cyrillic is "Саига". Easy to see where the 'Canta' came from.
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Old 01-21-2013, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Star View Post
Were the words used here literally those of the CT State Police or of the poster?

I do appreciate the clarification, but am dismayed that they couldn't correctly ID a Saiga shotgun. Any state police agency should have people qualified to do that.
Here is a link to the Connecticut State Police website where the official release is posted:

despp: ** UPDATE ** State Police Identify Weapons in Sandy Hook Investigation
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Old 01-21-2013, 09:00 PM
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The weapons were probably because little Adam chose them in his video games. Probably got cheat codes off the 'net to get "unlimited ammo." Joe
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Old 01-21-2013, 09:09 PM
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Its irrelevant what type of gun or magazine size the nut ball used. We are talking about an elementary school full of children and unarmed teachers. The same outcome could have been achieved with a single action Colt.

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Old 01-21-2013, 10:42 PM
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Sadly, I just deleted 9 posts here.
This is not the time or place for quips on magazine terminology.
It is not a time for weird or morbid speculation.

THINK about how you phrase something.
Think about the press or families reading what you say.
In other words, kinda act like people, even if its hard.
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Old 01-21-2013, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by handejector View Post
Sadly, I just deleted 9 posts here.
This is not the time or place for quips on magazine terminology.
It is not a time for weird or morbid speculation.

THINK about how you phrase something.
Think about the press or families reading what you say.
In other words, kinda act like people, even if its hard.
With all due respect, Mr. Jarrett, I think you overreacted to the content of the thread, including a post I made (that was deleted) pointing out the legitimate observation that the two pistols, by themselves, could have been responsible in 20 minutes for all of the deaths at Sandy Hook Elementary School. This is pertinent to the topic at hand, and is not "weird or morbid speculation" about a horrific act that has been perpetrated by a crazy person.

I also do not think that pointing this out, in response to another post, constitutes my not "kinda acting like people, even if it's hard " and, frankly, I object to your restricting my right to freedom of speech on this Forum in accordance with the terms of usage.

If what I wrote would offend the families of the victims, I offer here my humblest apologies , as my post was neither intended to cause pain or to point out anything more than what is already obvious. As to how my remarks might be perceived by the media, of which I was once upon a time a member, I think you overestimate and misjudge the import of my remarks.

I respect the job you have as moderator; but I disagree with your exercise of your prerogatives in this particular case.
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:26 AM
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When you get down to it, we are in a PR battle here. That's a large part of what our battle comes down to- Public Relations. How we 'relate to the public'. How many minds we can win, how many people we can help to understand the true meaning and reason for the 2nd Amendment, how many people we can convince that trading freedom for security is a VERY flawed deal.
In this PR battle, it won't really matter in the end what brand or type weapon was used. It is already planted in many people's minds that an "assault rifle" did it. If, in the end, the rifle was not used, what will we gain? The spin will only become "how much worse it could have been". Handguns alone will not help our case in any significant way.

I find it ironic that we so often see posts or even full threads that bemoan the lack of common courtesy in our society today. Everyone talks of how good manners simply aren't taught or even expected anymore; there is no sense of decorum; people never think of others anymore.
Then, we enter into this topic, and everyone is so worried about what's coming, they start rattling about ME's reports, posting mag capacity charts, arguing the semantics of seized and used, literally wondering which guns killed, and verging on humorous sarcasm. At best, many remarks seen in this thread were in poor taste.
Folks, you're hanging on details that don't matter all that much at the moment, and will eventually come out anyway. All the official records you're talking about will most likely be incorporated into the Congressional Record and be viewable for all time. Meanwhile, let's NOT make ourselves look like crass and unfeeling brutes.
"They" are coming after what they will come after. They will come after them all eventually, so the particular order they do it in should matter little to us, and only to them in a strategic sense.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vigil617 View Post
With all due respect, Mr. Jarrett, I think you overreacted to the content of the thread, including a post I made (that was deleted) pointing out the legitimate observation that the two pistols, by themselves, could have been responsible in 20 minutes for all of the deaths at Sandy Hook Elementary School.
I do not think I overreacted, but your exception is noted. Your post was not that objectionable, but no longer fit after other deletions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vigil617 View Post
frankly, I object to your restricting my right to freedom of speech on this Forum in accordance with the terms of usage.
Freedom of speech is not the absolute people think it is. Start your own board and say whatever you wish, or find a board that has no objections to anything you post. You do not have to let me post on your board.
I do not have to let Westboro Baptist Church spout their drivel to try and justify disrupting servicemen's funerals.
I do not have to let neo nazis explain how the Holocaust didn't really happen.
I do not have to let al-Qaeda expound their views on how to fix America.
I also don't have to listen to debates on which gun killed how many kids or when ME reports might be released.

_________________________________

We'll always allow useful discussion about fighting for the 2nd and strengthening the NRA, but we will maintain some dignity, some sense of decorum, and some consideration for the many families ripped apart by this slaughter of those innocents.
If maintaining consideration for those people causes anyone duress, I invite them to quit participating here forthwith.
________________________________
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  #13  
Old 01-22-2013, 05:13 AM
Ivan the Butcher Ivan the Butcher is offline
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Thank you Lee! Ivan
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:28 AM
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Thank you Lee.
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Old 01-22-2013, 12:29 PM
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The big monkey is the owner, not a moderator.

It don't pay to argue with him.

He runs a great board and has always been reasonable and judicious when he does have to 'censor' any posts.

Thanks Lee.
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Old 01-22-2013, 12:43 PM
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while I agree with pushing back, in fact, I say run em over, crushing them into the other side of life, these sentiments, improperly worded, become something of a grass fire Lee had to deal with
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Old 01-22-2013, 12:53 PM
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I think that as a whole our community is data and information based. As such, we stare at reloading charts for hours, quibble over the value of a 240 grain bullet versus a 260 grain bullet, worry about 0.040 difference in the diameter of a projectile, on, and on, and on. I think it is in our nature to want to know all the facts and details about significant events that impact our lives and our chosen hobby. For some of us it is how we deal with tragedy. I was involved with a fatal accident team during my time with the Patrol, and saw horrific things. I dealt with the trauma by becoming detached and analytical (for a while anyway. I think that contributed to my need to leave the department).

We do not want anyone to be able to point to a single post here on this fine forum as evidence that we do not care, that we do not feel or understand the pain suffered by the victims of a madman.

Thanks Lee, and thanks for your and the Mods tolerance over the past few weeks. It has been and will continue to be tough for us for a while.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:07 PM
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Picture yourself a person that absolutely hates guns and what they stand for. You want them all confiscated and melted down.

Then while you're browsing the web you run across the S&W Forum and see that they are discussing what was used to kill those little kids.

Would we be seen as selfish and self centered? Evil or lacking compassion?

This an open forum where anyone can see and read. We can do better than this folks. The deed was done and the event is over except those that lost loved one's.

I think we can honor them by not discussing this openly. The time for us to stand and fight as one will come. But this isn't the way to do it.

This thread needs to go away.
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanewpadle View Post
Picture yourself a person that absolutely hates guns and what they stand for. You want them all confiscated and melted down.

Then while you're browsing the web you run across the S&W Forum and see that they are discussing what was used to kill those little kids.

Would we be seen as selfish and self centered? Evil or lacking compassion?

This an open forum where anyone can see and read. We can do better than this folks. The deed was done and the event is over except those that lost loved one's.

I think we can honor them by not discussing this openly. The time for us to stand and fight as one will come. But this isn't the way to do it.

This thread needs to go away.
You said what I wish I could have about all the threads of this type concerning Newtown. I also agree that it should be locked, or completely "erased", along with any others like it.

The silence is out of respect for the many grieving families, who lost more than most of you will ever know.

If any of you feel so special that you think YOU deserve to know more, PLEASE call LT Paul Vance, Connecticut State Police, of the Public Information Office at 860-685-8230

Last edited by KJM; 01-23-2013 at 12:15 AM.
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:19 PM
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Sandy Hook was a painful tragedy by any measure. For the left to use this as a tool to prosecute a political agenda long held by the Obama Administration is wrong. For the right to spread rumors that cause pain for those involved directly is also wrong.

New Information from CT State Police:
Connecticut State Police Clarify Sandy Hook Weapons Questions | Texas GOP Vote
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanewpadle View Post
Picture yourself a person that absolutely hates guns and what they stand for. You want them all confiscated and melted down.

Then while you're browsing the web you run across the S&W Forum and see that they are discussing what was used to kill those little kids.

Would we be seen as selfish and self centered? Evil or lacking compassion?

This an open forum where anyone can see and read. We can do better than this folks. The deed was done and the event is over except those that lost loved one's.

I think we can honor them by not discussing this openly. The time for us to stand and fight as one will come. But this isn't the way to do it.

This thread needs to go away.
I see your point, but the lack full and clear disclosure is bound to create discussion. Is the denial of open discussion the way we wish to go in the US?
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KJM View Post

If any of you feel so special that you think YOU deserve to know more, PLEASE call LT Paul Vance, Connecticut State Police, of the Public Information Office at 860-685-8230
If the lieutenant can string his words together better than the other spokespersons from Connecticut, that might be a call worth making. As somebody who has read and reviewed many technical reports on death and destruction, I have found the communication skills of those put up for the media woefully lacking.
  #23  
Old 01-23-2013, 02:51 PM
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We're done here.
More data will become available eventually. We'll deal with it then.
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