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Old 02-16-2013, 04:59 PM
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Default Sales refused to LE in ban states

Time to get in the fight S&W

Group of Second Amendment-Supporting Gun Makers Now Refusing to Sell Arms to Law Enforcement in New York (And Other Gun-Restricting States) | TheBlaze.com
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Old 02-16-2013, 05:17 PM
Ray Vaughn Ray Vaughn is offline
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They will quietly come back on-line when the companies who continue to sell to LEO in those states start cutting into their profit margins.

It is their right to do what they do, just as it is the right of those who don't refuse to.
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Old 02-16-2013, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Ray Vaughn View Post
They will quietly come back on-line when the companies who continue to sell to LEO in those states start cutting into their profit margins.

It is their right to do what they do, just as it is the right of those who don't refuse to.
It's called principals....either you have them, or you don't.

"When they came for the Jews, I did nothing, for I am not a Jew. When they came for the Socialists, I did nothing, for I am not a Socialist. When they came for the labor leaders, the homosexuals, the gypsies, I did nothing, for I am none of these.....
... and when they came for me, I was alone, there was no one to stand up for me."
-- Martin Niemoller, a Lutheran pastor from Nazi Germany
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Old 02-16-2013, 08:21 PM
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Olympic Arms just issued a letter saying that if a particular weapon or accessory is banned in a state, then it is banned for everybody as far as they are concerned. No exceptions for LE agencies. Works for me.
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Old 02-16-2013, 08:46 PM
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I agree. Too bad that Glock will never do the same. That would really smart.
f.t.

p.s. My apologies to my friends in those states,but it would probably be best in the long run. Might wake up some of your politicians.
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Old 02-16-2013, 09:02 PM
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Why should LEOs be any different from your average law abiding citizen? If they have need of an evil assault firearm or high cap mag for duty. Their agency or department will provide it for them. Off duty, they should be treated like any other citizen.

Sort of like the military does it. On duty you get a M4 or M16. Off duty, you are no one special
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Old 02-16-2013, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by looseman View Post
It's called principals....either you have them, or you don't.

"When they came for the Jews, I did nothing, for I am not a Jew. When they came for the Socialists, I did nothing, for I am not a Socialist. When they came for the labor leaders, the homosexuals, the gypsies, I did nothing, for I am none of these.....
... and when they came for me, I was alone, there was no one to stand up for me."
-- Martin Niemoller, a Lutheran pastor from Nazi Germany
I agree that they should stick with their principles...to me it is the only way.

My bet, however is that they follow their bottom line at some point and justify the change.
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Old 02-16-2013, 09:37 PM
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Firearm and accessory manufacturers, including ammunition, pulling up roots and leaving states that do this kind of **** will make them wake up to the stupidity they've just entered into. Sadly it will be too late at that point.
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Old 02-16-2013, 09:40 PM
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Cheaper than Dirt is joining the party:

Cheaper Than Dirt Upholds Ban on Gov't Sales

LL
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Old 02-16-2013, 10:05 PM
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MagPul Industries in CO. says they'll pull up and leave the state if a currently considered hi-cap mag ban is enacted.

State says they can stay and mfg the magazines,,the citizens of the State just can't buy them.
No Good says the company,,we'll take our $85 Mil in business & jobs elsewere.
Good for them..
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Old 02-16-2013, 10:16 PM
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Can't remember which, but after California banned civilians from owning a .50 BMG rifle, Barret or McMillan has refused to do business in California for several years now.
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Old 02-17-2013, 12:32 AM
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I believe it's companies like CheapThanDirt that will really put pressure to cities such as NY and ammunition is the key to applying such pressure. If such companies refuse to stock ammunition from manufacturers that deal with NY municipal contracts, it will severely affect their commercial sales. Kudos to CTD for taken the first step.

Glock, on the other hand, would be hard to turn. No matter how much negative press they receive, the public will still keep buying them because of the branding.
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Old 02-17-2013, 12:41 AM
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You guys do realize that CTD was singing a very different tune by december 18th right ? This does not make up for them giving up their backbone and sky rocketing prices BEFORE any shortage had come into play. Good for them, and good for the people that support them, but they wont get my business, not ever. I know many people that feel the same way, i know people who say Im stubborn. Either way, its my opinion and my choice, just like they made theirs.
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Old 02-17-2013, 12:51 AM
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OlyArms is in Olympia WA. Three senators in Washington introduced a bill to ban the manufacture of AWs in the state, and lists an AW as any weapon capable of accepting a magazine. Nobody thinks it's going any where, but the fact remains these moves are happening everywhere. The only way we can stop it is to support the companies who fight the ban, and make our voices heard in our legislatures. We should also all be writing to companies and asking them to folow suit. And it was Ronnie Barrett who pulled his support for weapons in California.
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Old 02-17-2013, 02:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegetaman View Post
Firearm and accessory manufacturers, including ammunition, pulling up roots and leaving states that do this kind of **** will make them wake up to the stupidity they've just entered into. Sadly it will be too late at that point.
One thing I still dont understand is why is it ok for the guns to be manufactured in these anti gun states, but owning them is just unreasonable?


The other thing is LEO's needing "Assault Rifles" and Citizens not. I wonder when the News media was planing on filling us in about the Police Departments deployment over sea's to Iraq in other war torn country's?

Since obviously some states have determined that the citizens don't need more then 7 rounds and them evil black rifle's for self defense. What do cops need with them since there job is to protect and serve the community.
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Old 02-17-2013, 03:58 AM
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North/South Carolina, Virginia, and Texas would be more then happy to have these firearms/accessory manufacturers move to their state. I still wonder why some of our oldest names in firearms remain in states that are in the top of of anti-"gunnery".
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Old 02-17-2013, 09:41 AM
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They dont care!!!

Our leftist governor was interviewed about all the gun manufactures here in CT. He said "yes I know we have at least TEN THOUSAND jobs involved with gun manufacturing (this was his number so its probably low) but we are beyond that now". Huh, this state is so broke and in debt, jobs are leaving faster every year so now we dont care about these jobs? If they leave who will fill the void. Hes been celebrating Amazon putting in some distribution point in the state so now sales tax will be collected, it still has minimal jobs.

This state is a sinking ship soon it will be government jobs, and those on benefits with a few others mixed in.

I ask everyone this, where did our county go, how do we find it again?
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Old 02-17-2013, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by HotRoderX View Post
One thing I still dont understand is why is it ok for the guns to be manufactured in these anti gun states, but owning them is just unreasonable?


The other thing is LEO's needing "Assault Rifles" and Citizens not. I wonder when the News media was planing on filling us in about the Police Departments deployment over sea's to Iraq in other war torn country's?

Since obviously some states have determined that the citizens don't need more then 7 rounds and them evil black rifle's for self defense. What do cops need with them since there job is to protect and serve the community.
I have wondered that also. I guess it is like Jack Daniels being made in a dry county?
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Old 02-17-2013, 10:01 AM
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One thing I still dont understand is why is it ok for the guns to be manufactured in these anti gun states, but owning them is just unreasonable?
Lemme think about this for a minute.......................

Oh, yeah, I've got it: $$$$$$
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Old 02-17-2013, 10:05 AM
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Why should LEOs be any different from your average law abiding citizen? If they have need of an evil assault firearm or high cap mag for duty. Their agency or department will provide it for them. Off duty, they should be treated like any other citizen.

Sort of like the military does it. On duty you get a M4 or M16. Off duty, you are no one special
This needs to be drummed into some of the new recruits I have seen for the last three years in nearly every department. I know many guys who came to me wanting to get high cap mags for their guns, but because they are peace officers and not police officers everything needs to be on department letterhead which our sheriff does not do. I have never felt undergunned with my Model 27, my 649 or any other handgun I have carried. A little more of equality among gun owners does away with some of the "us and them" attitudes I see in some cases with LEO's.
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Old 02-17-2013, 10:14 AM
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Howdy,
Yeah, I love it. They tell us these guns have no defensive purpose and are made only for killing people, then give them to every policeman across the country.
Homeland Security buys select fire "Personal defense weapons" while our semi autos are tagged "Assault rifles".
I have written several companies asking that they consider Missouri in the event of relocation.
I can't wait to see what happens next.
Thanks
Mike
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Old 02-17-2013, 10:46 AM
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I believe it's companies like CheapThanDirt that will really put pressure to cities such as NY...
Ummm...
We are a whole state here, with lakes and fish and trees and forests and wild animals and mountains and deer and moose, and turkeys and geese and ducks and small game and trapping, etc., etc.
Not to mention the maple, wine, & apple industries. Plus rich history of involvement in the Revolutionary War, the Erie Canal, etc. We are not just a cess-pool city hanging out into the ocean.

Our entire state needs such pressure applied, and bravo to the companies that possess the fortitude to stand up and fight.
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Old 02-17-2013, 11:07 AM
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Ummm...
We are a whole state here, with lakes and fish and trees and forests and wild animals and mountains and deer and moose, and turkeys and geese and ducks and small game and trapping, etc., etc.

Our entire state needs such pressure applied, and bravo to the companies that possess the fortitude to stand up and fight.
I have always wondered about NY State, and how a fairly large state with a large rural/small town population seems to be ruled by one or two big cities. I hope it doesn't happen here in Texas. So, far our rural areas are well represented in our leglislature. But Houston, Dallas/Ft. Worth, Austin and San Antonio keep getting larger and larger and more liberal every year. All four cities have very liberal to at best weak moderate mayors.
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Old 02-17-2013, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by battlegraduate09 View Post
You guys do realize that CTD was singing a very different tune by december 18th right ? This does not make up for them giving up their backbone and sky rocketing prices BEFORE any shortage had come into play. Good for them, and good for the people that support them, but they wont get my business, not ever. I know many people that feel the same way, i know people who say Im stubborn. Either way, its my opinion and my choice, just like they made theirs.
I agree.

CTD has 'gotten religion' a little too late for my liking!
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Old 02-17-2013, 11:51 AM
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I would like to throw Michigan into the relocation pot. Michigan has a strong manufacturing history, and an unemployment rate of 7%. And Michigan is close to the iron ore. Michigan recently pasted a law that all firearms and ammo made in Mi are free from federal controls. Michigan is a shall issue state for CCW. The way the state are hurting for money you would think they would be working to get the firearm company in their state.
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Old 02-17-2013, 11:52 AM
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I have always wondered about NY State, and how a fairly large state with a large rural/small town population seems to be ruled by one or two big cities
It's in the math. NYC + Long Island + Westchester + Rockland = some 12 million voters, the rest of the state about 7 million.
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Old 02-17-2013, 11:56 AM
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I am surprised no one here on S&W forum have not called out Smith & Wesson on this...

Hey Smith &Wesson... when are YOU going to join the NY ban to LE and Govt officials too? This also goes for Sig Sauer and Glock...
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Old 02-17-2013, 12:16 PM
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Government (including law enforcement agencies, of course) have only such powers and authority as has been delegated by the citizens.

When the citizens have been prohibited something, then the citizens can no longer delegate that to government.

Anyone who has ever read "Animal Farm" will easily recognize what has been happening with government in the United States. Laws passed by Congress that specifically exempt Congress from those laws. Everyone is theoretically equal, however in practice some are alwasy a bit more "equal" than everyone else. A Constitution intended specifically to constrain and circumscribe government, and a Bill of Rights intended specifically to enumerate and guarantee individual liberties, now viewed as a "living document" that can be forever reinterpreted to fit whatever those in power choose for it to mean.

I applaud every manufacturer and distributor that refuses to sell to oppressive government entities, moves their production facilities out of states with governments that fail in their duties to safeguard individual liberties, etc. While the occasional big government contract may be a profitable part of business, all of the government contracts put together cannot match the business volume provided by the general public.
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Old 02-17-2013, 12:31 PM
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Red face

Maybe a response from the marketplace to the manufactures Like Remington,Ruger,colt and S&W should be in order?
With the above statement the only folks that get hurt are the working man and women of these companies that do not have the opportunity to relocate.
I for one had considered moving back to NY upon retirement. The counties of Northern NY are awesome (I was born and raised on LI). We had looked in to St Lawrence County my wife's family is there, I said had, Not no, but heck no now and never will!
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Old 02-17-2013, 01:21 PM
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Anyone that steps out of the game will just get replaced by HK/Glock/Beretta production.
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Old 02-17-2013, 01:42 PM
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It's in the math. NYC + Long Island + Westchester + Rockland = some 12 million voters, the rest of the state about 7 million.
Not to mention in recent years after 9/11 a lot of people who could move from NYC have, most upstate or the northern part like the Adirondacks. With them have come their high minded ideals, and we have been losing traditional Republican areas to the Democrats. In the little town where I live of maybe 3,000 people we have a Conservation Club and shooting range. Two people who moved up this way, one directly across from and the other a mile down the road from petitioned the town board to do something about the club's noise because there is the shooting range. I remember one woman's letter saying that "We didn't move up here for this noise and the risk of a stray bullet." Thankfully most of the townsfolk and the board told her to either deal with it or move.
Granted not all of them are like this but more than a few people have come up here with the notion that us locals are nothing more than hicks and rubes that if we are lucky have a full set of teeth.
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Old 02-17-2013, 04:20 PM
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One thing I still dont understand is why is it ok for the guns to be manufactured in these anti gun states, but owning them is just unreasonable?...
One only need to again look at NY State.
They have never allowed private citizens of the State to own full auto firearms.
But allowed Numrich Arms/ Auto Ordnance Corp to thrive in W.Hurley NY for years not only making TSMG, but also supplying the gov't at times with parts and maint for many of their not so front line Title III weapons.
As long as they pay property, business and employment taxes it's OK. But not OK to sell or own any of that stuff here.
No Sparklers allowed for the unwashed either. Somebody might put an eye out w/one.
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Old 02-17-2013, 04:45 PM
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I have always wondered about NY State, and how a fairly large state with a large rural/small town population seems to be ruled by one or two big cities. I hope it doesn't happen here in Texas. So, far our rural areas are well represented in our leglislature. But Houston, Dallas/Ft. Worth, Austin and San Antonio keep getting larger and larger and more liberal every year. All four cities have very liberal to at best weak moderate mayors.
It is all population distribution and density. NYC accounts for about 10Million of New York State's 20Million population.

With population density comes different issues.

And from what I can tell from my time living there..."Upstate" is anywhere above the Tappen Zee.
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Old 02-17-2013, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by carpriver View Post
I would like to throw Michigan into the relocation pot. Michigan has a strong manufacturing history, and an unemployment rate of 7%. And Michigan is close to the iron ore. Michigan recently pasted a law that all firearms and ammo made in Mi are free from federal controls. Michigan is a shall issue state for CCW. The way the state are hurting for money you would think they would be working to get the firearm company in their state.
No thanks...I live there too. our state went to O-bummer. We are obviosly not smart enough to attract Mfg.

Our governer had the "Pistol Free Zone" elimination bill on his desk the morning of Sandy Hook and shelved it, then vetoed it....Justy another fine example of idiocy.

Last edited by looseman; 02-17-2013 at 05:07 PM.
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Old 02-23-2013, 12:22 PM
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Default List of Manufacturers refusing sales grows to 44

This is what I'm talking about....Good men standing up and saying "NO MORE"

Current list as of today...

1.LaRue Tactical 2-8-13
2.Olympic Arms 2-12-13
3.Extreme Firepower Inc, LLC (Per EFI, policy is several years old)
4.Templar Custom 2-13-13
5.York Arms 2-13-13
6.Cheaper Than Dirt 2-15-13
7.Bullwater Enterprises 2-16-13
8.West Fork Armory 2-16-13
9.Smith Enterprise 2-17-13
10.Alex Arms 2-17-13
11.Spike’s Tactical 2-18-13
12.Quality Arms Idaho 2-19-13
13.Liberty Suppressors 2-19-13
14.Doublestar Corp 2-19-13 (Includes J&T Distributing & Ace LTD)
15.American Spirit Arms 2-19-13 (complete with a video!)
16.Trident Armory 2-17-13 (reported to me 2-20-13)
17.Head Down Products 2-20-13
18.J&G Sales 2-20-13
19.Barrett Firearms 2-20-13
20.Exile Machine 2-20-13
21.Tier One Arms 2-15-13 (reported to me 2-20-13)
22.Bravo Company USA 2-20-13
23.Primary Weapons Systems 2-21-13 (read my blog post on PWS)
24.Crusader Weaponry 2-20-13
25.Top Gun Supply 2-21-13
26.Kiss Tactical 2-21-13
27.Clark Fork Tactical 2-21-13
28.OFA Tactical 2-17-13 (reported to me 2-21-13)
29.One Source Tactical 2-21-13 (Scroll down to shipping restrictions)
30.Templar Tactical Arms 2-12-13 (reported 2-21-13)
31.NEMO Arms 2-21-13 (check out their photo!)
32.Old Grouch’s Military Surplus 1-15-13 (NOT a typo!)
33.Big Horn Armory 2-22-13
34.Midway USA 2-22-13
35.CMMG Inc 2-22-13
36.Rocky Top Tactical 2-22-13
37.Badger Peak 2-22-13
38.Controlled Chaos Arms 2-22-13
39.SRT Arms 2-22-13
40.Norton Firearms 2-22-13
41.Umlaut Industries 2-22-13
42.Predator Intelligence 2-2-13 (Read comments)

FULL STORY HERE:

New York Boycott - An NC Gun Blog
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  #36  
Old 02-23-2013, 12:49 PM
WCraven WCraven is offline
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I bet Ruger would be the first major player as they had links up to email everyone in washington about the AWB..

GrassRoot N.C. has a link to email all the gun players at once here.

http://www.firearmspolicy.org/take-action/industry/

Last edited by WCraven; 02-23-2013 at 12:52 PM.
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Old 02-23-2013, 01:02 PM
all357mag all357mag is offline
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Kiddos to the boycott! At some point law enforcement will have to stop being stooges for the insane administrations they work for and take a stand.
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Old 02-23-2013, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotRoderX View Post
One thing I still dont understand is why is it ok for the guns to be manufactured in these anti gun states, but owning them is just unreasonable?


The other thing is LEO's needing "Assault Rifles" and Citizens not. I wonder when the News media was planing on filling us in about the Police Departments deployment over sea's to Iraq in other war torn country's?

Since obviously some states have determined that the citizens don't need more then 7 rounds and them evil black rifle's for self defense. What do cops need with them since there job is to protect and serve the community.
Because most of them can't shoot for s...... and need all the rounds they can get! Members of this board excepted, of course!
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Old 02-23-2013, 02:19 PM
johngalt johngalt is offline
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Call me a cynic, but I doubt any of those companies had significant sales to law enforcement in the first place and are just using the boycott as advertising.
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Old 02-24-2013, 01:36 AM
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We'll have to see names like S&W, Colt, Winchester, Remington,and Ruger on the list for it to have much effect.
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Old 02-24-2013, 02:27 AM
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The Police Loophole website is keeping a running list of companies that are doing this...
The List of Companies

I would like to see more major players involved and on the list.
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:09 AM
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David LaPell David LaPell is offline
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Kiddos to the boycott! At some point law enforcement will have to stop being stooges for the insane administrations they work for and take a stand.
Actually the sheriff of my county and one of the neighboring counties are among a couple others that have publicly come out against Cuomo's Safe Act, and several county boards have done so too. I would like to see Glock and Smith & Wesson on the boycott list as those are the two agencies that deal in LEO sales in this state for handguns.
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Old 02-24-2013, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by 2152hq View Post
MagPul Industries in CO. says they'll pull up and leave the state if a currently considered hi-cap mag ban is enacted.

State says they can stay and mfg the magazines,,the citizens of the State just can't buy them.
No Good says the company,,we'll take our $85 Mil in business & jobs elsewere.
Good for them..
There's a nice big, empty former Target store within walking distance from me. I'm sure they'd be very welcome here. There'd probably be some attractive tax abatements available too...
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Old 02-24-2013, 11:18 AM
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Free advertising. If Mayor Emanuel called and said he was looking for bids to equip the Chicago PD with patrol rifles and ammo from a "boutique" manufacturer, they'd be tripping over themselves to do business with "law enforcement".
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Old 02-25-2013, 04:30 AM
GatorUSMC GatorUSMC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David LaPell View Post
but because they are peace officers and not police officers everything needs to be on department letterhead which our sheriff does not do

What's the difference in your state?
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Old 02-25-2013, 08:37 AM
Vom Brunhaus K9 Vom Brunhaus K9 is offline
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New Jersey should be placed at the top of the list with 20 new gun bills already passed thru 2 committees. No firearm or ammo mfg. company should sell anything to NJ. Communist Democrat State.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:07 AM
Boris B Boris B is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fat tom View Post
I agree. Too bad that Glock will never do the same. That would really smart.
f.t.
Too bad S&W will never do the same...
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  #48  
Old 02-25-2013, 01:46 PM
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looseman looseman is offline
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Default Now 67!

Latest list, it grew alot over the weekend.

1.LaRue Tactical
2.Olympic Arms
3.Extreme Firepower Inc, LLC
4.Templar Custom
5.York Arms 2-13-13
6.Cheaper Than Dirt
7.Bullwater Enterprises
8.West Fork Armory
9.Smith Enterprise
10.Alex Arms
11.Spike’s Tactical
12.Quality Arms Idaho
13.Liberty Suppressors
14.Doublestar Corp (Includes J&T Distributing & Ace LTD)
15.American Spirit Arms
16.Trident Armory
17.Head Down Products
18.J&G Sales
19.Barrett Firearms
20.Exile Machine
21.Tier One Arms
22.Bravo Company USA
23.Primary Weapons Systems
24.Crusader Weaponry
25.Top Gun Supply
26.Kiss Tactical
27.Clark Fork Tactical
28.OFA Tactical
29.One Source Tactical
30.Templar Tactical Arms
31.NEMO Arms
32.Old Grouch’s Military Surplus
33.Big Horn Armory
34.Midway USA
35.CMMG Inc
36.Rocky Top Tactical
37.Badger Peak
38.Controlled Chaos Arms
39.SRT Arms
40.Norton Firearms
41.Umlaut Industries
42.Predator Intelligence
43.Citizen Arms
44.Evolution Weaponry
45.Chaos Arms
46.Warbirds Custom Guns
47.JBTAC
48.Stoner Arms
49.Ammoclip
50.3 Rivers Precision
51.2A Firearms
52.Lanco Tactical
53.Predator Tactical
54.Arrowhead Shooting Sports
55.Boise Tactical
56.Huntertown Arms
57.Lauer Custom Weaponry
58.556 Tactical
59.Iron Goat Guns
60.Dead Bang Guns
61.Southern Appalachian Arms
62.Thunder Beast Arms
63.Delmarva Shooting Supply
64.OJ’s Gun Shop
65.OCS Guns
66.Semper Fi Arms
67.Climags
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  #49  
Old 02-25-2013, 04:08 PM
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I seriously doubt that places like NYS buy ammo from a place like CTD. More likely from places that specialize in government sales like Precision Delta, or GT Distributors, for instance. If they have contracts with the state, they will have to honor them.
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Old 02-25-2013, 04:26 PM
Stephanie B Stephanie B is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mstuhr View Post
Homeland Security buys select fire "Personal defense weapons" while our semi autos are tagged "Assault rifles".
And when the cops have them, they are called "patrol rifles".
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