Hey All,
My friend just bought an SP101 that he knew I was looking for....
We live across the river from each other, different states.

So, can I just bring the gun to my FFL and have him do a transfer, or does my friend NEED to be present as well?

It's not like my friend needs to fill out any paperwork, right?

Any help with this would be appreciated. (My FFL is closed until Mon evening, but it would be great to know ahead of time)
thanks!

In my state, both parties have to be there...don't know how else you can do a PPT.

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Thirty characters. Exactly...

An FFL dealer cannot effect a transfer to a buyer from out of state, unless the buyer is on active duty with PCS orders to your state. The easiest way is to send your gun to your friend's FFL, and let them do the transfer.

Have his FFL in his state ship it to your FFL in your state.

I believe the SP 101 is a hand gun.

You guys in VT with little gun laws

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Doesn't hasta call me Johnson

Yes, must transfer from FFL to another FFL if a handgun crosses the state line. Then the receiving FFL can transfer to your friend via a 4473 purchase form.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

He is from Vermont, they don't know what gun laws are up there.

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Doesn't hasta call me Johnson

And that's the way it should be.

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Insert short witty words here

Okay. Here's what everyone has overlooked; you are saying that your friend bought a gun with the intent on selling it to you? That is a straw purchase. You are both guilty of a felony.

NOPE, only illegal if the person who ultimately receives the gun is a felon or otherwise unable to legally possess the firearm.

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Sure you did

I believe the friend in the other state can ship the gun direct to your FFL in your state. I do not have an FFL and have shipped several handguns direct to FFL dealers in other states. Of course state laws may not allow this but Federal laws do allow such.

Whether this was a straw purchase, is an interesting question. Your friend must have answered on the FFL form that he was buying the gun for his own use. I do not know whether any subsequent transfer of the gun through an FFL dealer is a mitigating factor.

I don't think this is correct. The law doesn't address the person to whom the firearm may subsequently be transferred. If you state on the FFL form that the firearm is for your personal use, it must be so. In any event it is against federal law to transfer a firearm to a non-eligible person regardless of the source of the firearm.

I was once told by an FFL dealer that I could buy a firearm for a family member only if I as well as the family member filled out the FFL form.

The friend did not make a straw purchase of the handgun originally as it is being transfered to the OP by way of an FFL which will require a 4473 and NICS check on the OP.

If the friend purchased it with the intent to mearly hand it over to the OP because the OP is unable to purchase a firearm through an FFL (will fail NICS check for any reason), or to avoid any State or Federal laws (being from different States) then that would be a straw purchase.

The straw purchaser is one who buys a firearm and then knowingly provides that firearm to a person who otherwise would not be able to legally purchase and/or possess a firearm.

I walk into the LGS with my niece who 2 months ago received her License To Carry (Gun Permit)

I also have the same License.

I tell the owner (FFL) I want to purchase her a Lady Smith as a gift, he looks at both of our licenses, I hand him the money, she fills out the 4473.

Straw Purchase?

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Doesn't hasta call me Johnson

Aloha,

ATF FAQs see Question 7

http://www.atf.gov/files/firearms/in...top-10-qas.pdf

OK for Non FFL to ship to FFL via UPS or FedExor other common carrier.

Glad to see we have some lawyers up in here!
Nowhere did I clearly state that he bought it specifically to pass on to me.....just that he knew it was an item I was interested in. While intent might be implied by my words, nothing illegal is going on here.

Thanks to those who answered my question. I now understand that MY FFL must receive the gun via shipment, and I cannot simply walk in with it and my friend and do a transfer.

Okay. I hear you, brother.

I must be missing something.
Why cant the friend take the gun to the FFL in another state? Then have the FFL do the transfer.
What am I missing?

Wingmaster

That's a good question...I had a buyer for a handgun who lived in North Carolina, Currituck, and I sent the gun to his FFL. Now I'm wondering if I could have saved the exorbitant cost of shipping, and simply had gone to his FFL for the transfer.

Okay, I never had the occasion to sell a gun across state lines, but if the fellow can carry the gun to his friend's house, then why couldn't he just sell it to him while they are both in the same state?

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Kirk / Spock 2020

18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) & (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 & 478.30
"A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes."

and


18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3)
"A person not licensed under the GCA* and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer."


*Gun Control Act of 1968

I hang out and drink coffee at a local gun shop. I have seen many times someone come in wanting to sell a gun. I have never seen the guy at the shop ask if the person was a resident of this state. He just buys the gun if they agree on the price.

Wingmaster

I will tell for sure later this evening, but it appears that I CAN show up with my out-of-state friend, and do the transfer on the spot (as long as the FBI clears me on the background check, which has never been a problem ).

Some states might be different, but keep in mind, Vermont is pretty loose with its laws......don't even need a permit to carry concealed.....even non-residents!

Federal law allows for your friend to transfer the gun to you if he first transfers it to an LGS in your state. He can do this by walking into the LGS and stating he wishes to transfer the gun to you. The LGS notes the transfer from your friend to the LGS in his bound book. Then you can receive the gun from the LGS by complying with all applicable Federal and State laws. There is no shipment necessary. LGSs do this as a routine transfer, no big deal.

I have dealt with this for the past 12 years while working in an LGS. State law can and will have to be dealt with as well. As the saying goes your mileage may vary because of your state laws.

Eliminate all the confusion.

Have your friend go to his FFL in his State and transfer the Hand Gun to your FFL in Vermont.

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Doesn't hasta call me Johnson

NO, eliminating the confusion would be if private sales could be conducted between law abiding citizens!

I do not wish to pay shipping from his FFL to mine, when they are literally across the darn river from each other!

There should no longer be confusion, but will keep you all posted as to what happens.

You could have given her the money (well if not charging it) and just been consulting on the purchase.

A number of posts here answer the straw purchase question. that only applies if you are making the purchase because the recipient is not eligible to buy it themselves.

My wife tells me all the time about that things that she "bought" or "paid for" when what she really means is "charged" on a credit card which I will have to pay off.

Indeed it's been done several times for me even behind the Iron Curtain of Kommieforniastan. It's just cheaper sometimes to ship through an FFL since FedEx or UPS usually want overnight vs an FFL who can use USPS.

Sorry, I'm still not seeing it.

So the seller of the gun would have to live in the state in order for a FTF sale to take place? What in the world would that extra little blurb do for the safety of the world?

If a guy is walking down the street and asks if you want to buy a gun, is it the buyer's responsibility to verify the seller is from his state?

At a gun show is every seller from the state the show is in? (I don't know, just asking!)

This is how I would get myself in trouble and never know it.

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Kirk / Spock 2020

The out of state friend can (if state laws on both sides allow) bring the handgun to the FFL's place of business and 'sell' the handgun to the FFL. Which on paper is what the friend is doing.

The FFL's bound book will read 'Acquired From' with that persons name and info.

The FFL then transfers the hand gun by way of a 4473 & NICS check to the OP being a resident of the same state as the FFL and the transaction taking place in that state & place of business.

The FFL's bound book will read 'Transfered/Sold To:' with the OP name and info.

It's all logged into the the big bound book.
ID and signed 'purchased from' receipt from the original owner for the FFL's records will probably be part of the paperwork to show where the FFL obtained it should a question come up on a compliance or trace check.

The OP receives the handgun only after the 4473 & NICS are done.

No straw purchase,,no violation of Fed or State laws (if there were none in the way of the the original owner traveling to the OP's state to sell/transfer the handgun to the FFL at his place of business).

Or the original owner could ship the handgun w/proper ID to the FFL with the instructions that it is for transfer to the OP.

Either way,,take your pick.,,that's the way it's done.
It's a simple interstate transfer of a firearm between 2 non-licensees, a Dealer FFL being used in the middle of the transfer to make it all legal.