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View Poll Results: Do you support MANDATORY firearms training for issuance of a concealed carry license?
YES 158 58.52%
NO 112 41.48%
Voters: 270. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-05-2013, 05:58 PM
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Default MANDATORY classes for ccw?

Do you support MANDATORY firearms safety classes for concealed carry licensee's?
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Old 05-05-2013, 06:01 PM
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YES,YES AND YES
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Old 05-05-2013, 06:17 PM
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I think taking a speech class before public speaking is a good idea as is a firearms safety class, but don't think either should be mandatory.
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Old 05-05-2013, 06:21 PM
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So if you open carry, or don't carry but you own firearms you don't need any safety training? Why would you only require it for concealed carry? Why would you not require for anyone who has a firearm? Why don't they require new mothers to attend baby safety training? How else will they find out not to put peas up the kids nose, or not to put a plastic bag over the kids head?

What ever happened to being responsible for yourself and for the safety of others?

No! Not Mandatory training, but everyone should be trained in my opinion, just not mandatory.

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Old 05-05-2013, 06:33 PM
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I think gun safety should be a required school subject, with rubber or real guns. Like cars, if you keep it in the garage, no permit required. You take it out in public, training and permit required.
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Old 05-05-2013, 06:41 PM
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hard question I wouldn't want someone that has no idea how to handle a firearm or know safety aspects to carry until they were knowlegabe about their weapon. But then again MANDATORY could be a way to control who gets a lisense by making it to expensive to obtain by the dems.
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Old 05-05-2013, 06:45 PM
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I think some miminal time maybe a hour each in legalites, safety and then range time at bare cost. You cant drive, fly, or even hunt without the same. I dont like dynastys built out of these things and thats the danger. People get a goverment job testing and teaching these things and it doesnt stop there. Either due to ego, power trip, proveing their value or all three they keep adding to it and make more and more rules. Still, we are no longer the unpopulated frontier either. EVERY time you give a new pencil neck a little authority this happens. (I used to work with some myself. (Didnt effect me though). Yesterday my next door neighbor told me what he had just went through day before yesterday.
He has lived here all his life and boated forever. I seen him leave with the family and asked him how it went. First at pencil necked youth state park ranger at a reservoir wanted him to scrub the boat down. He showed him some PW he had just got with the boats regestration showing he had just done that stuff. Then the ranger wouldnt let him put the boat in because the trailer wasnt tagged. In this state that size trailer and weight doesnt need a license. He even called the DMV and got that confirmed. Before he lost it he said screw it I will go over 30 miles to this other reservoir he told his grandkids. Off to the other reservoir and the pencil neck there told him his boat only had three license numbers on it and he thought it should have four! Buddy said look I had this boat for 15 years! I think its suppose to have four, says the pencil neck. Neighbor got out a roll of electrical tape and put on 0 in front of the other three numbers! Went back and pencil neck wasnt sure because it wasnt the same color! My neighbor was pretty upset telling me about it yesterday.
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Old 05-05-2013, 06:47 PM
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I think that mandatory training would be used to limit access. If there has to be mandatory training, it should start in grade school.
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Old 05-05-2013, 06:57 PM
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I would not want to require mandatory training as I'm sure politicians would seize on it as a means to limit access to firearms.

The only way I would be agreeable to any kind of mandatory training would be if an NRA approved course of training were incorporated into a countrywide program that would guarantee an individual reciprocal carry rights in all 50 states and US territories.

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Old 05-05-2013, 06:58 PM
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Well, you do have to take a class to get your CCW (here in Fl) Now some classes are more intense than others. Some they actually teach you "stuff" others, well it's a joke.

When I took my class it was 1 hr. 45 minutes on how to fill out all the forms and actually get a CCW the other 15 was for everyone in the class (20-30) to line up and shoot on round from a revolver to see if panic or freak out or something.

So rather than use the evil "mandatory" word, I would like to see, demonstrate proficiency in handling a firearm or something added to the class.

As in boating and driving, I would like to see some knowledge passed on and learned. Lots of idiots down here, buy a big arse boat with a lot of HP and have no clue how to operate it, they are a real danger.

I think there should be a mandatory test to become an elected official.
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Old 05-05-2013, 07:16 PM
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Cops are pretty well trained in firearms yet they miss quite often when the SHTF...so I would assume a totally untrained person would could be a bigger liability on the street with a loaded weapon...so I vote for some proficiency with a gun...especially if they are carrying around me.
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Old 05-05-2013, 07:18 PM
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I do support mandatory classes, with both classroom and hands on shooting with a minimum qualification to hit the target. There are several states that will issue with no hands on, and there are some out there with a ccw that may not be able to safely handle a firearm. Now, for those who are already qualified, and could furnish verification such as a NRA or IPSC Instructors certificate or a classification card showing a classification above the beginners class, there may be wiggle room on the hands on. There should be a minimum of time spent in training, such as Missouri is now cracking down on where some permits were certified with only a couple hours in the classroom. There are quite a number of MO CCW holders having their permits suspended until they retake a "approved" class.
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Old 05-05-2013, 07:20 PM
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Who sets the training standards? Uncle Joe or some other government anti gunner??

Who pays the cost, are we going to make it where only rich people can get a permit?

Which other of the Amendments to the Constitution requires you to train and be tested before you can exercise the rights the Constitution guarantees?

Mandatory training would just be another means for limiting gun ownership and self protection.

It would eliminate low income people the same rights we enjoy.

A while back some ladies in town were looking for some training. The best they could do was $250 for a four hour shooting class, nothing about Self Defense.

So I started a weekly Ladies Firearms Safety and Self Defense Class. Two hours every Wednesday night.

I don't charge a thing. Even provide most of the ammo.

I have single mothers who couldn't afford to attend, they could barely afford to feed and house their children. Not to mention, its on going, no limit on how often they can show up.

I've gotten excellent reviews on my classes. Only problem is I might have to go to two nights a week to be able to keep my class size down.

The government, Fed, State and Local have spent a lot of money making me a firearms instructor. I figured I might as well give something to the tax payers who paid for my training.

I'm all for training, I'm against government mandatory training. Lets not make shooting sports and self defense a rich man's game.

A lot of women, more so then men, are afraid of guns, we can change that. A bunch of good old boys out shooting doesn't do much, getting women involved does. But if it comes to learning to shoot vs. feeding their kids, they choose the latter, and rightfully so, but they also are prevented from the ability to protect those same children.

If you believe people need training, then step up and provide the training. We want to grow our sport, and increase involvement in shooting, then we need to STEP UP.
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Old 05-05-2013, 07:22 PM
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I wouldn't say mandatory training, but I believe just as with any licensed occupation or party some sort of test should be administered to show at least a basic knowledge.
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Old 05-05-2013, 07:23 PM
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Ability to demonstrate basic safety, handling and being able to get shots downrange in a reasonable manner..YES.

Mandatory training..?? NO!

Last time I was required to take "Mandatory Training" was in AZ and it was a joke. The "instructor" read the State regulations and then had a "practice" test and gave out the answers. Amazingly it was the same test as the real one we took later. (He was proud of the fact that no one had ever failed the written test after taking his class. He should have just sold the answers for the cost of the class and saved us a day of sitting listening to him.)
The only worthwhile part was the firing test. If I remember correctly it required that you put 3 or 4 out of 7 in a 2 foot square at 15 feet.
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Old 05-05-2013, 07:24 PM
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I, too, hate to use the word "mandatory". But I don't really see an efficient way around it either. My CCW class was eight hours with classroom time(including basic legal aspects)& range time. The instructors were thorough, & the class was enjoyable. I think people need to know the consequences of deciding to carry, as it is not something to be taken lightly. They need to know that they're not becoming LEO auxiliaries, & the dreaded mall ninjas need to be weeded out. Its not something done to be cool, its to provide real world protection for someone that actually needs it.
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Old 05-05-2013, 07:32 PM
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I support training but nothing mandatory, especially if administered by a gov't agency.
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Old 05-05-2013, 07:42 PM
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I support training but nothing mandatory, especially if administered by a gov't agency.
Plus one...
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Old 05-05-2013, 07:49 PM
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Most people who own a gun have had some sort of training, whether it be a father, friend, or safety course. It might not be government mandanted training, but it's training. I am not sure this mythical person exists who goes out, buys a gun, and starts carrying it. Most people who are unfamiliar with guns are afraid of them.
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
Cops are pretty well trained in firearms yet they miss quite often when the SHTF...so I would assume a totally untrained person would could be a bigger liability on the street with a loaded weapon...so I vote for some proficiency with a gun...especially if they are carrying around me.
Exactly. I don't want some ninja wannabe or untrained person who's going to sweep me with a muzzle applying deadly force in my vicinity.

We have a training requirement--not at all arduous or extremely expensive--in Kentucky, a shall-issue state. It's required, therefore it's mandatory if you want to carry concealed legally. Same with a driver's license: you have to pass a test, written and practical. Required, as it should be. To practice law or medicine you have to demonstrate knowledge and proficiency. Required. Mandatory, so you don't have somebody who can't find his derriere with GPS carving out your gall bladder.

Sounds to me as if "mandatory" just sounds worse to people who already have some legitimately required activities to which they don't want to apply that "ugly" word.
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:13 PM
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No.

MAYBE if it's offered for free.

It's bad enough I have to pay $20 for 5 years for a God given right, re-affirmed by the Bill of Rights. Making people pay hundreds of dollars for a right? No way.

Why should I need to bow down to the government and take a course THEY determine is necessary? I've had over twenty years of firearms training. I received the small arms expert ribbon twice (rifle and handgun). Yet I would need to take a government mandated course on firearm safety and training?

BS

Should people train? Yes. Should they seek assistance if they feel it would be beneficial? Yes. Mandate it? No.
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Bamabred View Post
I am not sure this mythical person exists who goes out, buys a gun, and starts carrying it. Most people who are unfamiliar with guns are afraid of them
This IS why I was pondering how to vote. The word Manditory word was killing me.

I've seen first hand, over the last year or two, many MANY first time buyers with absolutely no prior experience in shooting, come in and buy. Turn right around and sign up fow a CCW class. "Mostly" but not all either women, or couples that decided they wanted to start a new hobby.... and carry too.

I hate selling a gun to people that have never shot a gun in their life. They come in, pass the backround check, buy a gun and a box or 2 of ammo, then leave with nothing but one more question."Where'd you say that shooting range was again?" (I moonlight sometimes at a local shop)

I would rather do a 15 minute crash course before they leave. They would at least have 5 or 6 pointers to take with them.
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:20 PM
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I do not think training should be mandated by the government any more than I think a license should be necessary to "bear arms".

I do not believe in the premise of your question, therefore I don't know how to vote in the poll.
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:22 PM
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Just curious:

People on this thread seem to be in favor of training, but not mandatory training. Again, just curious, don't pick up your flamethrower yet, But if the training isn't mandatory, how many people do you think will even bother with it? What kind of standards should & could be set for this non-mandatory training?
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:24 PM
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Constitutional carry. Some states have it right.

I just checked the Bill if Rights and found out we only have freedom of speech if we take a public speaking course.
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:30 PM
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Drivers license? Which amendment is that again? I'll leave it to the lawyers on the forum to explain why they should be licensed to practice.

I think you could certainly do something to incentivize people to get voluntary training, and set up a network and system to readily make available said training in every friggin county in the U.S. so as not to make it an undue burden to participate.

If you take the training at your expense, you get your CCW for free. And, a tax credit for the expense. Maybe even provide the training for free with the help of the NRA and volunteer trainers. And a tax credit. Surely if the libs feel that untrained CCW holders are wreaking havoc, this system would save tremendous cost in the millions of lives lost every year to this untrained menace.

Then, we should be mandated at 65 to take an expensive Skip Barber driving course before being reissued drivers licenses.
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:38 PM
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I do like classes for CCW, but I would get behind school courses on firearm safety. Its to bad politicians are required to go though ethics and political classes in order to be an elected official.
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:45 PM
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Mandatory, NO! This implies that "the right to keep and bear arms" is "conditional" and further erosion of our rights.

It should be taught in grade school and should be "optional" (because some stupid people don't really believe in the Bill Of Rights.)

Farg them!

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Old 05-05-2013, 08:54 PM
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Gun safety classes are now required to get a hunting license. Well except for us old geezers.

Gun safety is equally important for concealed carry.

If you oppose requirement of a class, would you agree the person should be REQUIRED to pass a gun safety knowledge and practices test.

"shall not be infringed" but we have minimum age limits ...
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
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Drivers license? Which amendment is that again?
Driving is a privilege, not a right.

The right to bare arms is in the bill of rights. Unconditional.
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:04 PM
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Maybe some should pay a mandatory fee to vote.......ohh some states tried that already.
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:09 PM
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John Lott has researched the effectiveness of classes for carry permits in "More Guns, Less Crime ".
"Lott examines the effects of training requirements on crime rate and accident rate. He finds that training requirements have very little effect on both crime rates and accident rates. "

I am still in favor of people taking classes even though I can't prove it really does any good.
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by gregintenn View Post
I do not think training should be mandated by the government any more than I think a license should be necessary to "bear arms".

I do not believe in the premise of your question, therefore I don't know how to vote in the poll.

Next time I'll let this guy do his own poll

Concealed Carry
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:14 PM
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Training? Yes.

Mandatory? Uh, NO.
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:20 PM
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Next time I'll let this guy do his own poll

Concealed Carry
That's just scary!
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:28 PM
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No, I personally don't want somebody who probably knows
less than myself about firearms running me thru some testing
and firing course just so i can obtain something that is my
right to have as a FREE, Law abiding, American Citizen.


Chuck
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:28 PM
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That's just scary!
I was hoping to see him with his baby bonnet playing with his blinky but the poll is not cooperating.
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Old 05-05-2013, 10:33 PM
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Spending allot of time around a friends gun shop, I see ALLOT of people come in to buy a handgun with the intention of carrying. To be honest, some of these people scare me. They know little about guns and less about gun safety. Others, want to carry for the wrong reasons. ( Read: Can't wait to save a maiden or play James Bond.) Considering one of these hoopleheads might pull his hi cap forty in a crowded mall to thwart the robbery of a snow cone, I want to be sure that he has some basic instruction on firearms safety, liability and control before he pops a cap into an innocent bystander in the background.
Many, including myself ,will argue that CCW is a right. However, I believe with that right comes the responsibility to act appropriately and shoot straight and safely. Lives depend on it.
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Old 05-05-2013, 10:42 PM
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For non-LEO's, yes. For LEO's no...see HR218.
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Old 05-05-2013, 10:44 PM
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So even if you a LEO or active duty for military and retired you need mandatory training? This might come from a person that failed either of those career test you worked at but he is certified to train you? How about some sense.
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Old 05-05-2013, 10:45 PM
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Absolutely yes and I wouldn't hurt from a refresher every couple years (speaking as a non-LEO) - the more training the better.
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Old 05-05-2013, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wee Hooker View Post
Others, want to carry for the wrong reasons.
It sounds like not only do you want to check up on proficiency, but also to make sure an applicant has the right attitude.

Are you going to be the "attitude and reason checker"?

(To "allot" means to dole out, or to distribute, or to assign a share. "A lot" is two words, and means a great many, or a large number. 'Scuse me for pointing that out, but that is a pet peeve of mine. Maybe you want to "allot" carry licenses?)
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:07 PM
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I was among the first "batch" of Arizona-certified CCW instructors, when AZ first began issuing CCW permits about twenty years ago, to people who passed a background check, and completed a class consisting of, if I recall correctly, 16 hours of training, comprised mostly of training in the judicious use of deadly force, rudimentary firearms safety, and no mandatory proficiency test, although many instructors included some range time in their own curriculum. This mandatory instruction was imposed by our typically brain-dead legislature, and accepted as a compromise, by CCW proponents, to get the legislation passed. But, many of us opposed this mandatory training requirement (long since trimmed down, and eventually eliminated) because it gave people the false impression that if they had taken the minimum required training, that they had been adequately and sufficiently trained, and so, sought no further training, in most cases (personal observation...).

There's no data to support an argument for the apparent necessity of mandatory, or more, required training, because of misuse or injudicious use of force by AZ CCW permit holders, or, more recently, by concealed carriers without permits, which are now no longer required in AZ.

My personal opinion is that you are an idiot if you carry a gun, concealed or not, without a thorough grounding in firearms safety, the legal use of force and justification for same, and etc. But, last I checked, it's not illegal to be an idiot, a crime hopefully put to rest once and for all by the defeat of the Nazis, and the salvation of many American voters...

Last edited by jkc; 05-05-2013 at 11:48 PM.
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:11 PM
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Michigan requires a training class before getting a CPL. It is mandatory, I guess so. I was trained by my father, grandfathers and uncles. In the Air Force I was given more training. When I was assigned as a Air Policeman I was given more training. But I still needed to prove to the state I knew the basic of gun safety.
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:12 PM
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I've heard that 1 in 13 Washingtonians has a carry permit. We have no training requirements at all. Maybe someday we'll all start popping rounds off every which way or shooting the poor guy standing next to the guy we were aiming for, but so far, it hasn't been a problem.

I'm not a big fan of regulations aimed at solving a problem that doesn't exist. How often are permit holders responsible for accidental shootings? How about accidental shootings outside the home?
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:14 PM
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I too am in favor of training but not mandatory. I wish there was some way to have mandatory training without government intrusion. Many people need it.

I too having worked at a LGS saw many people buy guns that didn't know what they were doing. Normally a young man full of himself. And when we tried to educate them all we got was attitude. But forcing mandatory training on them won't work.

After all we tell them "don't drink and drive". They do anyway. We tell them "don't drive too fast". They do anyway.

It's hard to teach someone that already knows it all. They must learn on their own and sometimes the decisions they make ruin the rest of their lives. And this would happen with or without government intervention.
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:24 PM
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Like many things it sounds like a reasonable thing but can be turned into a weapon by a gun unfriendly administration . Well guess what people, we have no funds to administer the mandatory training! No training no permit. In a perfect world I would support mandatory gun training but sadly we do not. As in all things do not let your emotions cloud your reason.
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Old 05-06-2013, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DR505 View Post
For non-LEO's, yes. For LEO's no...see HR218.
I help run the range for the annual qualification for retired law enforcement officers qualifying under HR 218. There is a classroom session where a volunteer prosecuting attorney reviews any changes in the law involving use of force and a police officer reviews the other requirements of HR 218. The students seem to enjoy getting together with their colleagues .

It is fun to watch how accurate the officers are even the individuals who are at an advanced age. The revolver shooters are particularly impressive.

It doesn't make sense to me that these experienced and responsible officers should have to qualify every year when citizens in our state only need a class every five years in order to renew their permits.
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Old 05-06-2013, 06:27 AM
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FREE mandatory training?
Sure!
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Old 05-06-2013, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ladder13 View Post
Do you support MANDATORY firearms safety classes for concealed carry licensee's?
Yep!

A full day class is required here with range time. Based on some of the people I've seen is some of the classes I've taken, it absolutely is necessary.

Scary!
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