Saluting The Flag - Do You Know How?

[Straightshooter2]

Over the holiday weekend I was watching the race during the National Anthem. I guess I was shocked at the number of men who had no idea how to properly salute when wearing a hat. People were holding their hats all over the place but I did not see anyone doing it correctly. According to U. S. Code "...men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. The hand goes over the heart, not the hat.

Also, how many here are aware that, since 2009, active military, retirees and veterans in civies but wearing a hat may render the proper military salute "in the manner provided for individuals in uniform" rather than removing their hat? The phrase men not in uniform mentioned above refers to non-veterans.

CW

[GF]

Good post.

I guess the young folks that were texting during the anthem at my nephews baseball game missed out on manners and code.

People today don't have the sense that God gave a goose, I'm surprised the men even removed their hats.

GF

[Comrad]

When I was a kid, EVERYBODY knew how to do it and DID.

I want the country I learned about in school in the 50's back.

[Alpo]

Something that bugs me is people putting their hands over their hearts when they play the National Anthem. Wrong. You stand at attention for the Anthem, you don't salute it. You salute the flag. If there is a flag visible when the Anthem is played, you face it and salute it. If there is no flag you face where the music is coming from and stand at attention.

I appreciate the people saluting during the Anthem. They are trying to show their patriotism. But they need to learn that they are wrong.

[Smithsrevenge]

A more important question..........how many people know how to fold the flag!?

I worked a contract a while ago at a hostess plant that was shut down. Flag came down in a storm *yeah the idiots left it up during the storm* I noticed it was not on the pole at 2pm when my shift started. Walked into the office and saw it crumpled into a ball *45ft flag btw* on my desk.

BOY WAS I PISSED. I spent a good hour making the maintenance crew fold, unfold and re-fold until they understood it RIGHT.

[jaykellogg]

I will cut them slack, at least they remove their hats and pose with it over their hearts. My curiosity wants to know if you see someone, not in uniform, saluting the flag, how do you know they are military???

IMHO there needs to be a greater effort to train people the proper way to dispose of a flag. This should be in the newspaper on the 4th or just before. Also, I would like to see an occasional note with the trash bill that throwing a worn out flag in the trash is disrespectful. Again, IMHO this would be a great project for an Eagle scout.

[Smithsrevenge]

Originally Posted by jaykellogg

I will cut them slack, at least they remove their hats and pose with it over their hearts. My curiosity wants to know if you see someone, not in uniform, saluting the flag, how do you know they are military???

IMHO there needs to be a greater effort to train people the proper way to dispose of a flag. This should be in the newspaper on the 4th or just before. Also, I would like to see an occasional note with the trash bill that throwing a worn out flag in the trash is disrespectful. Again, IMHO this would be a great project for an Eagle scout.

Simple. The way they salute.

Every branch does it a little different.

I can tell a Ground Pounder from a Fly Boy from a Jarhead, from a Squid any day of the week by the way they salute. I can also tell a civy from the above ;-)

Army. Hand flat touching the edge of the brow

Navy. Hand flat covering part of the brow

Airforce Hand angled at side of the brow

Marines: Hand very angled, at the edge of the brow.

Boyscout: 2 fingers at the edge of the brow

Civilian : hand really crooked, not doing any of the above and grinning like a doofus :-p

[joeintexas]

Actually in this day and time if I see anyone showing any kind of respect for the flag or our national anthem I'm happy. It doesn't seem to be as much of a problem down here as it is in someplaces, but sadly, it's not what it used to be.

[Joe Kent]

I have a question regarding the Flag at half staff and covering a coffin. It was always my understanding that only persons that have served in the military could be honored by the flag covering their coffin and only the President could order the National Flag to be lowered to half staff. Am I correct?

[JJEH]

Respect, some people living in this country need more respect!

[Rastoff]

Originally Posted by Joe Kent

I have a question regarding the Flag at half staff and covering a coffin. It was always my understanding that only persons that have served in the military could be honored by the flag covering their coffin

This is the generally accepted rule, but it is not set in stone. As long as it's done properly, I have no issue with it. The flag on the coffin is placed as though it's facing the person in the coffin. That's why the stars cover the deceased's left shoulder.

Originally Posted by Joe Kent

...only the President could order the National Flag to be lowered to half staff. Am I correct?

This is true, only the president can order the flag lowered to half staff at a national level. However, you may lower your own personal flag to show respect for a deceased friend or family member.


In this day and age I give anyone credit for trying to show proper respect. One note about saluting or covering your heart; it's not necessary to actually see the flag as long as you face the direction where you know the flag is.

[Lee Barner]

I have been questioned twice since 09 about saluting the flag before my grandson's little league games. I explained it and they were satisfied. I was "touched" once on the arm by a fellow that told me to take my hat off and put it over my heart. he won't ever touch anyone else for saluting in civilian clothes. he got educated, quickly and loudly. I got a round of applause. I may be old and cantankerous but still can muster up a drill sgt voice when I have to. lee

[Alpo]

Originally Posted by Smithsrevenge

Simple. The way they salute.

Every branch does it a little different.

I can tell a Ground Pounder from a Fly Boy from a Jarhead, from a Squid any day of the week by the way they salute. I can also tell a civy from the above ;-)

Army. Hand flat touching the edge of the brow

Navy. Hand flat covering part of the brow

Airforce Hand angled at side of the brow

Marines: Hand very angled, at the edge of the brow.

Boyscout: 2 fingers at the edge of the brow

Civilian : hand really crooked, not doing any of the above and grinning like a doofus :-p

Cub Scout is two fingers. Boy Scout is three.

[Smithsrevenge]

Originally Posted by Alpo

Cub Scout is two fingers. Boy Scout is three.

Your right!. I was only a scout for a month :/ haha

[therevjay]

Originally Posted by joeintexas

Actually in this day and time if I see anyone showing any kind of respect for the flag or our national anthem I'm happy. It doesn't seem to be as much of a problem down here as it is in someplaces, but sadly, it's not what it used to be.

Works for me. As long as you behave in a respectful manner I don't care if you don't hold your hat, head, hand, salute or whatever just exactly right.

Some folks just get too wrapped around the axle with 'ediquette'. Sometimes I think it has as much to do with showing off how much they know, as it does respect. As long as people are making a effort, that's good enough. After all they are civilians at a ball game or race, not troops on guard mount or parade.

[mkk41]

Originally Posted by Straightshooter2

Also, how many here are aware that, since 2009, active military, retirees and veterans in civies but wearing a hat may render the proper military salute "in the manner provided for individuals in uniform" rather than removing their hat? The phrase men not in uniform mentioned above refers to non-veterans.

CW

I knew that , but in keeping with Navy regs , I do not salute covered indoors. We do the pledge at our monthly gun club meeting. I'll remove my cover and hold it over my heart.

And lest ye forget, "He who enters covered here , shall buy the bar a round of cheer!"

[Silver Dollar]

Originally Posted by Straightshooter2

Also, how many here are aware that, since 2009, active military, retirees and veterans in civies but wearing a hat may render the proper military salute "in the manner provided for individuals in uniform" rather than removing their hat? The phrase men not in uniform mentioned above refers to non-veterans.
CW

Actually, I didn't know that but I've been doing it that way anyhow especially when I wear my boonie hat with the military pins on it.

[Silver Dollar]

Originally Posted by Smithsrevenge

Simple. The way they salute.

Every branch does it a little different.

I can tell a Ground Pounder from a Fly Boy from a Jarhead, from a Squid any day of the week by the way they salute. I can also tell a civy from the above ;-)

Army. Hand flat touching the edge of the brow

Navy. Hand flat covering part of the brow

Airforce Hand angled at side of the brow

Marines: Hand very angled, at the edge of the brow.

Boyscout: 2 fingers at the edge of the brow

Civilian : hand really crooked, not doing any of the above and grinning like a doofus :-p

Not necessarily. I may be retired Air Force but I have always saluted like a Marine.

[handejector]

Originally Posted by Alpo

Something that bugs me is people putting their hands over their hearts when they play the National Anthem. Wrong. You stand at attention for the Anthem, you don't salute it. You salute the flag. If there is a flag visible when the Anthem is played, you face it and salute it. If there is no flag you face where the music is coming from and stand at attention.

Incorrect.
Title 36 of the US Code specifies the same salute shall be given as if a flag was present.

Originally Posted by Rastoff

This is true, only the president can order the flag lowered to half staff at a national level. However, you may lower your own personal flag to show respect for a deceased friend or family member.

Incorrect.
Governors of states and territories are authorized within very narrow limits to order the US flag within their jurisdiction to be flown at half-staff. The US Code stipulates that the flags on federal facilities within that state's borders will follow suit.
(Title 4 USC)

Originally Posted by Rastoff

However, you may lower your own personal flag to show respect for a deceased friend or family member.

If you do, in fact, have a "personal" flag, I suppose you can fly it at half-staff for a friend or relative. I hope it is a neat flag.
You can NOT fly the US flag at half-staff for a friend or relative. It is NOT a "personal" flag. You may own the fabric, but you do not own the flag. It is the flag of the United States of America. The US Code covers who can authorize flying that flag at half-staff.
(Title 4 USC)

[Smithsrevenge]

Originally Posted by Silver Dollar

Not necessarily. I may be retired Air Force but I have always saluted like a Marine.

Got some hot blood in ya then. Most Military salutes slowly.....we do it violently and with vigor! haha

[mkk41]

Originally Posted by handejector

Governors of states and territories are authorized within very narrow limits to order the US flag within their jurisdiction to be flown at half-staff. The US Code stipulates that the flags on federal facilities within that state's borders will follow suit.
(Title 4 USC)

Recently , New Jersey Gov received a lot of flack for ordering the states flags be flown at half-mast for the death of that Sopranos actor James Gandolfini.

[old bear]

Over the holiday weekend I was watching the race during the National Anthem. I guess I was shocked at the number of men who had no idea how to properly salute when wearing a hat. People were holding their hats all over the place but I did not see anyone doing it correctly.

I'm just happy that many are making a real effort to show the proper respect for the flag and what it stands for. Could they do better, ya, but it's a start.

[kozmic]

Originally Posted by mkk41

Recently , New Jersey Gov received a lot of flack for ordering the states flags be flown at half-mast for the death of that Sopranos actor James Gandolfini.

Right or wrong, Christie also bestowed the same honor on Whitney Houston and Clarence Clemons (sax player for Bruce Springsteen).

[vigil617]

Just please, please: don't wear clothing made with the Stars and Stripes as the major design element, OK?

I know you think you're being patriotic, but actually you're being highly disrespectful. I don't care to see you literally wrapped in our National Ensign, male or female, and believe me, it's all I can do not to walk up and embarrass you about it. But I'm getting to that point.....

I'm sure our Forum members don't need this reminder, but for whoever else might happen to see this, thanks for looking.

[pineappleshooter]

Originally Posted by Smithsrevenge

Simple. The way they salute.

Every branch does it a little different.

I can tell a Ground Pounder from a Fly Boy from a Jarhead, from a Squid any day of the week by the way they salute. I can also tell a civy from the above ;-)

Army. Hand flat touching the edge of the brow

Navy. Hand flat covering part of the brow

Airforce Hand angled at side of the brow

Marines: Hand very angled, at the edge of the brow.

Boyscout: 2 fingers at the edge of the brow

Civilian : hand really crooked, not doing any of the above and grinning like a doofus :-p

A Navy salute depends on the cover you are wearing. If you are wearing the Dixie cup (for E6 and below) or the garrison cap (for E7 and above) the salute goes to the corner of the eyebrow with your upper arm parallel with the floor and your forearm and hand ramrod straight the hand is slightly turned so the receiver of the salute sees the back of your knuckles. If wearing a ballcap or combination cover the salute goes to the bill of the cap. If uncovered, you do not salute, you come to attention.

[jack the toad]

Originally Posted by Straightshooter2

Also, how many here are aware that, since 2009, active military, retirees and veterans in civies but wearing a hat may render the proper military salute "in the manner provided for individuals in uniform" rather than removing their hat? The phrase men not in uniform mentioned above refers to non-veterans.

CW

I remember reading the DoD directive in American Legion mag

[rwsmith]

Considering the state of the union I would be glad that someone tried to do the right thing, even if it wouldn't pass inspection.

[rimfired]

As long as you respect the flag and salute it! Bravo!

I was taught long ago to bring it "down the buttons" smartly!

[A10]

I never served in the armed forces. I was taught to salute the Flag as a police officer, either being raised or lowered, or at funerals. I still follow suit, it is how I was trained and it is fairly autonomic for me. Right, wrong, or indifferent, it's what I do.

[Cyrano]

Two questions:
1. do you have to be covered to salute? At indoor functions they play the national aanthem; I salute, hatless. What should I do?

2. I don't know who orders the flag to be lowered to half staff. I pass the Ft Bliss National Cemetery often and see the flag at half staff for an interment going on. I presume it's SOP, but I'm pretty sure the President didn't authorize it every time.

[Smithsrevenge]

Originally Posted by Cyrano

Two questions:
1. do you have to be covered to salute? At indoor functions they play the national aanthem; I salute, hatless. What should I do?

2. I don't know who orders the flag to be lowered to half staff. I pass the Ft Bliss National Cemetery often and see the flag at half staff for an interment going on. I presume it's SOP, but I'm pretty sure the President didn't authorize it every time.

To salute the flag.........no. To salute an officer the answer is yes. However Us Marines......we dont salute officers. Makes for a good target.

The president can order it to be lowered on a national level.

State level is ordered by the governor.

Local is by the mayor.

Im guessing for a Military funeral the governor, or a high ranking Military Official would have ordered it. Senior ranking officers have the ability to order a flag on military soil to be flown half mast so.

[JustAnotherGunGuy]

Originally Posted by Cyrano

Two questions:
1. do you have to be covered to salute? At indoor functions they play the national aanthem; I salute, hatless. What should I do?

2. I don't know who orders the flag to be lowered to half staff. I pass the Ft Bliss National Cemetery often and see the flag at half staff for an interment going on. I presume it's SOP, but I'm pretty sure the President didn't authorize it every time.

1) stand at attention
2) Note: The display of the flag at half-staff to express approval or disapproval of political, social, or economic philosophy is prohibited. The display of the flag at half-staff as authorized herein is in commemoration of the death of a person of national or State standing, or of a local serviceman, official, or public servant who has contributed to the community.(Marine Corps Flag Manual p57)
To me the above would mean that local leaders could order it. YMMV

1) update: I guess new codes dictates that you can salute with no cover when out of uniform.

New amendments left and right, hard to keep up with.

[Brian41]

I too am plain happy to see those at functions give respect to the flag even if they are a bit in error doing so. I have been saluting now it is legal for veterans to do so but have got some funny looks at times but no one has asked me about it either.
I fly the US flag and a POW/MIA flag here at home on a flagpole in front. I leave it up 24/7 as it is lit at night by our security light. What does confuse me now is the frequent half staff orders we receive from the state anymore. I have a hard time keeping up with it and seems like we're ordered to fly at half staff more now than we're a full mast.

[DR505]

Originally Posted by pineappleshooter

A Navy salute depends on the cover you are wearing. If you are wearing the Dixie cup (for E6 and below) or the garrison cap (for E7 and above) the salute goes to the corner of the eyebrow with your upper arm parallel with the floor and your forearm and hand ramrod straight the hand is slightly turned so the receiver of the salute sees the back of your knuckles. If wearing a ballcap or combination cover the salute goes to the bill of the cap. If uncovered, you do not salute, you come to attention.

I learned to salute at Aviation Officer Candidate School, with a United States Marine Corps Gunnery Sergeant watching like a demented hawk...just waiting to pounce!

[Smithsrevenge]

Originally Posted by DR505

I learned to salute at Aviation Officer Candidate School, with a United States Marine Corps Gunnery Sergeant watching like a demented hawk...just waiting to pounce!

Ohhh Marine D.I's dont stop there!!!!!!!!!!

I always feel safe as a former Marine.

If I ever get lost. Anywhere in the entire world.......at any time.

I just drop and attempt a push-up.

Eventually a D.I. Will jump out from behind a random tree and scream at me for doing it wrong.......at that point I can ask for directions :-p

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I wonder if there's anyone here old enough to have performed the Bellamy salute.

[DR505]

Originally Posted by Smithsrevenge

Ohhh Marine D.I's dont stop there!!!!!!!!!!

I always feel safe as a former Marine.

If I ever get lost. Anywhere in the entire world.......at any time.

I just drop and attempt a push-up.

Eventually a D.I. Will jump out from behind a random tree and scream at me for doing it wrong.......at that point I can ask for directions :-p

"What did you say?!?!? WHAT THE <expletive deleted> IS A D.I.???? I'm going to PT you until your MAMA passes out!! Then when you both wake up you can write down three thousand words that begin with the letters D and I, AND I BETTER LIKE EVRY ONE OF THEM!!! I AM A DRILL INSTRUCTOR!!!!"

[The Last Standing Knight]

Originally Posted by Straightshooter2

Over the holiday weekend I was watching the race during the National Anthem. I guess I was shocked at the number of men who had no idea how to properly salute when wearing a hat. People were holding their hats all over the place but I did not see anyone doing it correctly. According to U. S. Code "...men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. The hand goes over the heart, not the hat.

Also, how many here are aware that, since 2009, active military, retirees and veterans in civies but wearing a hat may render the proper military salute "in the manner provided for individuals in uniform" rather than removing their hat? The phrase men not in uniform mentioned above refers to non-veterans.

CW

I believe it has always applied to honorably discharged veterans as well, when in civvies and wearing a cover...errr.."hat" to choose to render a hand salute if they want. I do so myself.

[Smithsrevenge]

Originally Posted by DR505

"What did you say?!?!? WHAT THE <expletive deleted> IS A D.I.???? I'm going to PT you until your MAMA passes out!! Then when you both wake up you can write down three thousand words that begin with the letters D and I, AND I BETTER LIKE EVRY ONE OF THEM!!! I AM A DRILL INSTRUCTOR!!!!"

Haha I was totally waiting for someone to say that :-p Now how do I get to I95 from 204 west? :-p

[jimmyj]

YOU WILL NEVER GET FLAX FOR SALUTING, BUT YOU WILL GET HELL FOR NOT SALUTING !
If in doubt-SALUTE.
As a former member of the Armed Forces, I stand at attention and salute the National Anthem and Flag indoors or outdoors, covered or uncovered.
P.S. Them that don't like it--KISS MY SMALL MULE !

[Silver Dollar]

Originally Posted by Smithsrevenge

Got some hot blood in ya then. Most Military salutes slowly.....we do it violently and with vigor! haha

I still got it. OOOOHRAA !!!

[Smithsrevenge]

Originally Posted by Silver Dollar

I still got it. OOOOHRAA !!!

Old saying.

"You don't need to see a Marine salute, You can hear their blouse wrinkle like a bull whip when they honor the flag!" :-D