gun cleaning thread

[THEWELSHM]

Sometimes this just happens? As the wife and I settle in to watch the evening shows on TV I get compelled to clean the guns Started with a S &W Model 19-4 then a Ruger Super Blackhawk 44, then a S & W Model 500, then a Sig Sauer sp2022 and a SCCY 9mm. lol therapy at its best The SCCY is a truck gun gift I havnt shot it that much so the jury is out Love cleaning guns though

thewelshm

[Waywatcher]

Originally Posted by THEWELSHM

Sometimes this just happens? As the wife and I settle in to watch the evening shows on TV I get compelled to clean the guns Started with a S &W Model 19-4 then a Ruger Super Blackhawk 44, then a S & W Model 500, then a Sig Sauer sp2022 and a SCCY 9mm. lol therapy at its best The SCCY is a truck gun gift I havnt shot it that much so the jury is out Love cleaning guns though

thewelshm

Lately, I haven't been cleaning my guns much. My Colt AR has gone more than 1400 rounds without cleaning and my Glock about 450 rounds. My rifle, a Winchester M70, got cleaned once when it was brand new, as did my shotgun.

Modern primers with smokeless powder have really obsoleted cleaning.

Sure, I add some lube every couple hundred rounds, but no more cleaning after after every range trip here.

[THEWELSHM]

Originally Posted by Waywatcher

Lately, I haven't been cleaning my guns much. My Colt AR has gone more than 1400 rounds without cleaning and my Glock about 450 rounds. My rifle, a Winchester M70, got cleaned once when it was brand new, as did my shotgun.

Modern primers with smokeless powder have really obsoleted cleaning.

Sure, I add some lube every couple hundred rounds, but no more cleaning after after every range trip here.

really?? I wouldn't want to see your underwear

thewelshm

[Waywatcher]

Originally Posted by THEWELSHM

really?? I wouldn't want to see your underwear

thewelshm

I suppose the difference is that the wife does the laundry and I do the gun cleaning!

[USMCHEROS]

After the gun range I come home and take out the gun cleaning supplies and pull out the weapons and clean them like a boss.

[hangnoose]

Waywatcher, when you get around to cleaning those guns, you can sell the built up copper fouling for scrap. I think you're begging for a bolt not going into full battery or a ftf/fte issue. I don't really care for cleaning guns but feel it's needed for peak performance & reliability. I know some guns that they do torture tests on and they digest like 10,000 rounds without an issue, but I would recommend cleaning more frequently. smokeless powder or not, crud build up is crud build up & just attracts more dust, sand, lint, moisture etc.

[chud333]

Heard that more guns are harmed by over cleaning/improper cleaning, than by
use. Sure i wipe them down after every time out to prevent rust
remove finger prints, but i no longer scrub on them inside and out like i
used to. As stated with the modern powders/primers its not warranted
or needed after every firing. But i've got a buddy who is so anal
about his guns that every time one comes out of the safe it gets
field stripped and cleaned. Even if he just carried it thru the woods
and never shot it. To each his own.

Chuck

[kamloops67]

ill clean my guns when they start to foul up thats about it. scrub chambers and lube action before a match if im feeling gamey ...im a slacker and my guns know it, but they seem to ring the steel alright despite my lack of care. if they get rained on or something then ill clean and oil thoroughly , there's no excuse for rust.
another reason i dont really like my 1911 needs cleaning and oiling every 250 rnds or so...

[A10]

I Boresnake all of them after shooting, using CLP. I'll do a thorough cleaning out in the mancave when I have the time and inclination. Truth is, I don't shoot enough any more to warrant a huge effort....

[chud333]

Originally Posted by A10

I Boresnake all of them after shooting, using CLP. I'll do a thorough cleaning out in the mancave when I have the time and inclination. Truth is, I don't shoot enough any more to warrant a huge effort....

This for me as well ^^^
I'll run a patch of CLP thru the cylinders and bore after
each use and wipe down the outside. But i don't expend
hundreds of rounds during each session.
Now after a long day on a Prairie dog town with good
shooting. Thats another matter.

Chuck

[kamloops67]

Originally Posted by chud333

Heard that more guns are harmed by over cleaning/improper cleaning, than by
use. Sure i wipe them down after every time out to prevent rust
remove finger prints, but i no longer scrub on them inside and out like i
used to. As stated with the modern powders/primers its not warranted
or needed after every firing. But i've got a buddy who is so anal
about his guns that every time one comes out of the safe it gets
field stripped and cleaned. Even if he just carried it thru the woods
and never shot it. To each his own.

Chuck

yes ive heard of over scrubbing/cleaning barrels, and messing them up as well. as much wear from the rod and brush as the bullets

[Cattledog]

I find cleaning my guns to be almost therapeutic. I used to clean them as soon as I got back from the range, but now it doesn't bother me to leave them a day or two. I always wipe them down before I leave the range.

[rwsmith]

......I don't feel like the shooting session is over until I clean my guns. I don't get to go shooting real often but when I do go I let go of a couple of hundred rounds. I'm going to start shooting more lead at higher velocities so keeping lead fouling away will warrant cleaning them every time.

BTW Shooting the .357 with 2400 powder is an awful mess. I'd feel like I was taking a huge risk w/o cleaning every time.

[Rastoff]

Originally Posted by chud333

Heard that more guns are harmed by over cleaning/improper cleaning, than by use.

Originally Posted by kamloops67

yes ive heard of over scrubbing/cleaning barrels, and messing them up as well. as much wear from the rod and brush as the bullets

I have no doubt you've heard that. It was originated and is perpetuated by lazy people. I have no doubt that someone has damaged a gun while cleaning. However, much more damage has been done through not cleaning.

They're your guns so, do what you want. I, on the other hand, will maintain my guns.

[chud333]

Originally Posted by Rastoff

I have no doubt you've heard that. It was originated and is perpetuated by lazy people. I have no doubt that someone has damaged a gun while cleaning. However, much more damage has been done through not cleaning.

They're your guns so, do what you want. I, on the other hand, will maintain my guns.

Not from a lazy person but rather a gunsmith who has
worked in the trade for decades and has seen it firsthand.
And has replaced a few more barrels than you.
As i said to each his own.

Chuck

[hpfenning]

I shoot it--I clean it. There is a lot of lousy ammo out there now that seems to be dirtier than it used to be. I clean them before they go back into the safe.

[chief38]

I clean all my guns after each Range or field session. Sometimes I am amazed as to what comes off of them. If I am in the woods but only fire a few shots (while hunting), I will wipe it down and pull a Bore Snake through with some Rig #2 Oil if I will be using it the next day. Otherwise, it gets cleaned like normal.

[Waywatcher]

Originally Posted by hangnoose

Waywatcher, when you get around to cleaning those guns, you can sell the built up copper fouling for scrap. I think you're begging for a bolt not going into full battery or a ftf/fte issue. I don't really care for cleaning guns but feel it's needed for peak performance & reliability. I know some guns that they do torture tests on and they digest like 10,000 rounds without an issue, but I would recommend cleaning more frequently. smokeless powder or not, crud build up is crud build up & just attracts more dust, sand, lint, moisture etc.

I do keep an eye on their bores, chambers, and crud build up. I also wipe them down externally after handling. I keep track of rounds fired for planned maintenance like spring changes, lubrication addition, and cleaning intervals. I suppose I should have mentioned this, but I don't really consider it "gun cleaning," just good maintenance. Also, point of impact can often change from a freshly cleaned and oiled barrel until it builds up a little bit of fouling--I definitely don't clean my hunting gun's bores during the season.

As mentioned before, more guns are ruined from excessive cleaning. Cleaning guns religiously is more of a tradition than a necessity; a holdover from the time when there were mercuric or otherwise corrosive primers, which really wasn't a very long time ago. Also, some guns have such tight clearances that they necessitate more frequent cleanings is well, but I don't own a gun like that.

[hangnoose]

I suppose if the cleaner doesn't have a clue. some people shouldn't change their own oil in their car either. some guns and bullets/powder types require more care than others. my 45acp get's black and sooty fast. my 617 22lr has tight tolerances and needs to be brushed out frequently to keep the cylinder from locking up. you can bet long range benchrest and competition shooters keep them well maintained.

[pownal55]

Copper fouling and powder residue build up especially in front of the chamber will cause accuracy issues at some point. When you finally decide to clean the gun you may have a problem that is so bad it's almost impossible to fix.
My gunsmith friend tells me that 90% of the time someone brings a rifle to him with accuracy issues it has simply been neglected. His services are expensive, cleaning rods are cheap.

[bp231986]

I keep it simple for my self and clean after every outing. I dont see cleaning as a job. When i clean ill put in a good movie or two, get a cold coke or hot coffee, relax and clean at a slow relaxing pace and enjoy my self. At times i might walk away after spraying down the barrel with hoppes and let the solvent do its thing for a bit while i do something else. To me cleaning is fun and i like the peace of mind of having all guns clean and ready to go

[H Richard]

Cleaning a gun is a part of shooting it. I have several S&W where the cylinders are tight enough that if not cleaned every 100 rounds or so they will begin to bind from the residue build up on the cylinder front. I like reliable guns, I clean them after every use.

[Franklin]

Have you ever been at a range where they rent guns? Take a look at what the guns look like. You could probally start with a puddy knife on the outside, and every one of them go bang when you pull the trigger!

[timn8er]

Originally Posted by THEWELSHM

really?? I wouldn't want to see your underwear

thewelshm

So does this mean you'd want to see them if they were clean?

I Keed, I Keed!

A bit closer to topic though, I clean mine after every range trip. I too, find it to be good therapy. I do have a question for the OP & everyone here:how often do you use a brass bore brush? Is there a round count you go by? I would like to know.

[P&R Fan]

It's worth it just to fill the house with the smell of Hoppes #9.

24 posts and I was the first one to mention that.
What's up with that?
Jim

[kamloops67]

Originally Posted by hangnoose

I suppose if the cleaner doesn't have a clue. some people shouldn't change their own oil in their car either. some guns and bullets/powder types require more care than others. my 45acp get's black and sooty fast. my 617 22lr has tight tolerances and needs to be brushed out frequently to keep the cylinder from locking up. you can bet long range benchrest and competition shooters keep them well maintained.

funny you mention that group, those are the guys(some not all) im thinking about when i speak of prematurely worn barrels from fanatical scrubbing.
im not saying guns dont need to be cleaned ,just not after every outting ,unless its a b.p. piece then yes soon as possible after firing or your bore will look like a 40 yr old sewer pipe.
a clean bore can be inconsistant as well, dont a lot of shooters take fouling shots?

[THEWELSHM]

Originally Posted by timn8er

So does this mean you'd want to see them if they were clean?

I Keed, I Keed!

A bit closer to topic though, I clean mine after every range trip. I too, find it to be good therapy. I do have a question for the OP & everyone here:how often do you use a brass bore brush? Is there a round count you go by? I would like to know.

I actually never use a brass brush although I have them. I use a Winchester kit with the rags and solvent, and some good old fashioned elbow grease, I Use a bore snake and brush. I oil all blued guns religiously down her in FL

thewelshm

[rwsmith]

I will still clean my guns after every outing, but I may change the way I clean them.

[Rastoff]

Originally Posted by chud333

Not from a lazy person but rather a gunsmith who has worked in the trade for decades and has seen it firsthand.
And has replaced a few more barrels than you.

Just how many barrels have I replaced? How does the smith know what the owner's cleaning habits are? How did he determine that it was cleaning and not shooting that required the barrel to be replaced?

I would never take my gun to a gunsmith that told me not cleaning was better than cleaning.

I have helped to repair hundreds of guns. The vast majority of them were fixed by a simple cleaning.

Originally Posted by Franklin

Have you ever been at a range where they rent guns? Take a look at what the guns look like. You could probally start with a puddy knife on the outside, and every one of them go bang when you pull the trigger!

Yes, I've been to ranges that rented guns. The range that had clean guns had guns that worked all the time. The range that had dirty guns had guns that didn't work and I had to swap them out several times.

While at a USPSA match I was talking to one shooter about cleaning. Another shooter barged in and said, "That's why I bought a Glock. It never needs to be cleaned."(The Glock manual says it needs to be cleaned. I'm betting he's never read it.) His gun malfunctioned on the next attempted shot. He continued to have trouble throughout the day. He claimed it was the ammo. I'll bet he still doesn't clean his gun and still claims it never had a malfunction.


Look, like I said before, they're your guns, do what you want with them. I'm not saying that guns need to be cleaned after only a few shots, but they should be cleaned after a trip to the field or 500 rounds or so. Also, there's more to cleaning than running a brush through the bore.

[hangnoose]

A smith that recommends not to clean guns, contrary to every owners manual sounds like a guy drumming up his own business. wish I had a dollar for every person claiming to be a "smith" at a used gun sale or gun show. that and 35 year old Vietnam Vets.

[Tranquility]

Good evening,
Newbie in CT here. My wife, the shooter, and I have three S&W 38spl revolvers that we really enjoy. A few months ago I started reloading and the only bullets I could get were lead semi-wadcutters which are loaded over light loads of HP38. After returning from the range today and starting our post range cleaning drill I took a hard look at the barrels and found evidence of what I thought was pretty significant leading at the cone and for a half inch or so into the barrels.

I soaked the barrels and chambers with Hoppes #9 except for the nickel model 10 where I used Rem oil. After about 20 minutes I used a brass bore brush to dislodge the lead. This seems to work fairly well but not perfectly and I worry about using so much brush.

What do the you pro's use to keep ahead of lead fouling?

Thanks in advance for your help.

tranquility30
Model 10-5 four inch
Model 36 no dash 3 inch
Centennial 642 with 1-7/8 barrel

[Rastoff]

Originally Posted by Tranquility

What do the you pro's use to keep ahead of lead fouling?

I'm not a pro and won't claim to be. Neither copper nor brass will damage your bore.

Cut off a chunk of this:

It pushes the lead right out.

[Tranquility]

Thanks Rastoff,
I'll find this and try it out later in the week.
I appreciate your help

Bill
Tranquility30

[hangnoose]

Hoppes makes a solvent specifically for lead.

[ErnieDeBord]

I shoot "Benchrest" both Center&Rimfire. I am VERY anal about keeping my Firearms & Equipment highly maintained and spotless. I use boreguides and the best rods that can be had. I dont harm my bores with Proper cleaning. To me maintaining my stuff is just as much enjoyment as shooting.........I also dont have a lot of money so I maintain what little of all that I have. As an Auto-Tech (mechanic) I learned fast many years ago that cleanliness means its all. Regards Ernie

[Old TexMex]

I love shooting my model 48s.
Anyone who shoots them knows how often they need cleanin'. Sometimes halfway through a session.
I Love it.
.
.

[chud333]

[QUOTE=Rastoff;137366317]Just how many barrels have I replaced? How does the smith know what the owner's cleaning habits are? How did he determine that it was cleaning and not shooting that required the barrel to be replaced?

To answer your questions
1. I do not know, but not as many as Mr. Roy Knight
Master Gunsmith, Connorsville IN. R.I.P.
2. and 3. By having a conversation with owner and by a thing called a bore-scope. These barrels have what is called "rifling" inside.
By looking at the "rifling" under magnification thru a good bore-sope, or cutting the bad barrel after removed, a gunsmith can tell the difference between cleaning rod scars, over zealous brushing, and FOULING/WEAR.
Before you make a dumb remark about a so called "myth" perpetuated by "lazy people" at least have some idea what you are talking about.
Good day.

Chuck

[chud333]

Originally Posted by Rastoff

I'm not a pro and won't claim to be. Neither copper nor brass will damage your bore.

Cut off a chunk of this:

It pushes the lead right out.

Copper will not damage your bore ?????
Learn something new every day.........
Wrong.

Chuck

[rwsmith]

The Lewis remover is a piece of bronze screen over a jag-like piece pushed through the barrel. People say they really do a good job of removing lead. Are they harmful to your bore if used properly?

[Rule3]

They "sell" lots of "cleaners" none of them will remove lead. Only manual elbow grease will such as the chore boy or Lewis lead remover.
Only 2 actually remove copper

The not cleaning guns probably came from the same ones that say never clean a 22 LR. Lets see, they use powder, primers and lead or copper. Guess they are magic.

Take a spotless clean handgun barrel and fire one dummy centerfire round with just a a primer, no bullet or powder. Put a patch with solvent through it and see how much color is on the patch.

Guns are tools, I clean them also after each use. Take them out of the safe they are ready to go. Synthetic oils do not evaporate.

[Rastoff]

Without knowing me or what I do or what my education is, a member here has accused me of not knowing my facts. Alright, I accept the challenge.

• Brass is an alloy made of copper and zinc.
• Copper is about 6 times softer than steel used to make gun barrels.
• Zinc is softer than Copper.
• Aluminum is softer than Zinc.
• Lead is softer than Aluminum.
• Wood is softer than lead.

Not all gun barrels are made of the same kind of steel. So, no broad statement can be made quantitatively when comparing the hardness of the two metals. The bottom line here is that the tool used to clean the barrel is much, much softer than the barrel.

Because the metal being used is so much softer than the article being cleaned, it won't harm it. That is not to say that two materials won't affect each other when rubbed together; they will. The question is not will they affect each other, but how much will they affect each other? The answer is very little. The actual amount of that affect is so small that it cannot be measured after only one use. It would take many thousands of passes to have a measurable affect.

This is why cleaning rods are made of aluminum or wood or are coated with some material like vinyl or powder coating.

Measurement is something I know about. I have been a Metrologist for more than 25 years. In the lab we have the capability of measuring length to an accuracy better than +/-.5 micro inches (+/-.0000005").

Now, some here seem to be focused on the barrel only. That is a mistake. There is much more to the gun than the barrel. As I said before, the vast majority of mechanical gun malfunctions are caused by dirt. Dirt comes from various sources, but one of the major contributors is carbon from the firing of ammunition. Just because modern primers and powders aren't corrosive (some still are so, beware of what you're using), doesn't mean they don't make your gun dirty. Residue from firing the gun can get in the works and cause things to not move freely. Even unburned flakes of powder can get in the lock and prevent smooth action.

Further, more lubricant is not better. Grease and oil attract dirt. That dirt will cause your gun to fail. Use only the amount of lubricant necessary to coat the parts that rub. All grease or oil that squeezes out has no value and should be wiped away.

The Remington 870 is arguably the most reliable shotgun ever made. I fixed a broken firing pin on one once. The owner was one of those that believed cleaning was a waste of time. There was so much gunk built up in the firing pin channel in the bolt that the firing pin couldn't move freely. That was what caused it to break.

Gunsmiths are people just like anyone else. If a gunsmith gives me a piece of advice, but can't explain why, I won't accept it out of hand. That doesn't mean he's wrong, it just means I'm going to do my own research before I trust it.

So, when someone, anyone, tells me that cleaning my gun will do more damage than not cleaning it, I'm going to question it. The only support, in this thread, that has been offered to that claim is, "A gunsmith told me." That's not justification, it's just what someone said. I've offered up real facts along with sound reasoning as to why cleaning is good for your gun. Until someone can offer up solid evidence to the contrary, the idea that cleaning is somehow worse than not cleaning, it will stay in the category of a myth.

[smokindog]

At the risk of getting myself in trouble, I think it's time to take a step back and perform some deep breathing. As a relatively new (compared to most here) gun owner, I'm interested in hearing this discussion. However, I am the son of a lifetime tool and die father who NEVER, and I mean NEVER left a tool neglected. Drives my wife nuts that I have 50-60 year old tools that function like new! That said, my Dad also had his quirks. For instance, he never met a bolt or nut that was too tight!!!!!

All the discussion of "what might damage what" is interesting but remember, a piece of wood can penetrate a concrete wall in a hurricane and paper will cut you silly!

I believe that clean and properly lubricated devices operate/perform better and last longer. This is what I believe. That's not to say they wouldn't have done just as well if I ignored them. I'll never know because I'll never do it. Any time I ever have, the item has had to be replaced prematurely. Do I KNOW it was my neglect and not a bad product, NO.

This is where time and empirical evidence leads the way. I tend to agree that someone should be capable of telling me why something is "so" when they tell me to do it, even if the answer is "because I've always done it that way" or "because that's how my Dad taught me".

All that together has done nothing to progress this thread but I hope we'll get back to the OP's request!!! I also have a 1997 GMC Z71 with 40K miles and an engine that could be used for a dinner plate

Looking for some new habits to add to my OCD!!!!!!

Now back to your regularly scheduled program

[kennyb]

i confess to enjoying cleaning mine and do so after a range/hunting trip....all a part of owning them

[chud333]

[QUOTE=smokindog;137367589]

All the discussion of "what might damage what" is interesting but remember, a piece of wood can penetrate a concrete wall in a hurricane and paper will cut you silly!

Thank You smokindog. Exactly !!! This in a way "proves the point". The hardness scale of metals/or anything don't mean squat when you factor in Velocity and Heat into the equation.
My apologies to the O.P. but i'll have to continue to "call out"
members who (First) accuse another of being (Lazy) because their cleaning regimen differs from others.
As i said to begin with, to each his own.


Chuck

[hangnoose]

GOOD STUFF. If you like OCD, you will love reloading. I was a chronic over tightener, just like Dad and brushed my teeth with too much force in certain spots (EXCUUUUUSE MEEE). I'll admit a cheap jointed cleaning rod that can scratch a bbl can do harm. even good cleaning technique MAY increase wear, on a molecular level and after 300 years or so I may ruin a gun. I guess I will have gotten my moneys worth though. a busy butcher can wear out a knife fairly quickly by sharpening as required to keep it cutting correctly. by some posters logic we shouldn't sharpen knives either.

[Rastoff]

Chuck,
Now you're just grasping at straws. A hurricane can put a piece of wood through a concrete wall, but you can't. It's really simple physics. Neither can any of us impart the same force with a brass brush as a fired bullet.

I did say that the "not cleaning" thing was born and perpetuated by the lazy. I wasn't specifically calling you lazy. I apologize if that's the way it came across.

[rwsmith]

The very best reason is that I like to fondle my gun, baby it and put some oil on its little bottom.

[chud333]

Rastoff,
No apologies needed. Just a difference of opinion. But to say, it's a
myth perpetuated by lazy people i think went a bit far.
Sure barrels are ruined by neglect. I also say barrels can and do
get ruined by over zealous or improper cleaning.
I have seen the scarring impaired on rifling by the use of a bent
2 piece cleaning rod on rifles.
The newer coated one piece cleaning rods and the bore snakes have
surely helped save the accuracy and rifling from many a barrel.
I don't shoot hundreds of rounds per session "usually", and i shoot
moly coated bullets in most of my varmint rifles so i choose to
run a patch of CLP thru the bore after each use and wipe down
the exterior with the same and i'm done. After about 300-500
rounds i will then wire brush the bore with a good copper solvent
followed by patches of a good protectant (kroil), (CLP) etc...
It has served "ME" well. I will not tell anybody how or when or
how often they should clean their own guns. If someone wants
to sit down and clean just because they like to clean, "Have at it".
Or if somebody else wants to throw their gun under the seat of
their pick-up and never clean it, "that's fine too".
I'm simply trying to make a point that guns can and do get
damaged by improper cleaning methods.
My apologies to you sir if i offended. It was not my intention.

Chuck

[3dots]

I build and fly sailplanes. Building is almost as much fun as flying to me. I shoot and reload. Reloading is almost as much fun as shooting to me. Cleaning and detail work is good for the soul and is Zen for me. I couldn't imagine not detailing one of my firearms after use. I use hoppes and hops and barley to clean my guns .

[hangnoose]

Obviously people are gonna do what they want. for the op asking a ? I'm sure he has lot's of opinions and different answers to sort through. as I've posted elsewhere and being basically lazy. leave a dirty dish in the sink till the end of the season and see how much harder it is to clean as compared to cleaning it right after it's used, kinda the same for guns. when I'm really using my head I may run a wet solvent patch through the gun and give it a quick toothbrush and solvent job at the range while it's still warm. then when I get home everything is loose and can be cleaned extremely easy with a nylon bore brush "usually", a rag, and another toothbrush. EZ-PZ without any undue energy spent by me or abrasion to the gun. sooner or later it's gonna have to be cleaned or replaced. I believe some people do exactly that. they shoot it until it won't shoot anymore, then sell it and buy another.