I have been thinking of getting a BP revolver for display. I am not really into shooting them. Any advice?

The one I am looking at is an unfired older Navy Arms 1860 Army.

Are there any brands better than others?

Are the Colt repros worth anything?

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Luke 22:36

My thoughts.

Colt repros were made by Uberti and then shipped, as parts, to the States, so Colt could assemble them and call them COLT. They are no better than any other Uberti colt-copy, but they sell for more because they say COLT on them.

Armi San Marco guns need to be avoided.

I would not buy a gun with a brass frame. You say it is for display (not for shooting), and brass frames should be cheaper, but they will not stand up to the pounding of full-power loads. You would either need to down-load 'em or expect them to shoot out quickly.

If it's really just going to be for display, and you won't shoot it, I don't see where it matters WHO made it.

If it was me, I'd buy an Uberti.

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I always take precautions

Alpo's right. Armi San Marco guns might look good, but I think they heat treat the internal parts with a BIC lighter. I like to stick with Uberti. I waited around and bought an 1860 army and a 2nd Model Dragoon for $275 each on separate occasions. Even if it's just for display you are bound to pick it up when Josey Wales is on and you'll want a reliable one.

There's 2nd Generation Colt C&B and 3rd Generation Colt C&B revolvers.

1st Generation is the original of course.

The 2nd Generation are the ones considered the better quality of the two. Made in the 70's, maybe early 80's.
Still disputed is were the parts were made, here or Europe, but they do say Colt and are of nice quality.
I've even been told that the frames were made here, investment cast by Ruger (Pine Tree Castings ?),,the rest imported from Italy. Assembly and finished at Colt.
The argument is always a lively one.
USFA used some of the Uberti C&B when they first started and polished them all out to perfection and sold them in the white, some in pairs. No markings at all, just a ser#.
I had a set of those and they were beautiful pistols.


The 3rd Generation is the 'Signiture Series'. These don't have the fit and finish of the 2nd's. I understand they were outsourced completely by Colt.
A fellow from NJ came into Turnbulls when I worked there and was from the company heading up making these for Colt. Trying to get a deal on the case coloring,,We didn't end up doing them. I don't know who did.

Just about any NIB revolver would do as a display gun.
Even High Standard marketed some for a while complete w/display box.
Plenty of European made ones around and you're not saddled to a Colt design either.

A brass framed pistol will do OK for shooting. It's not going to disintegrate on you. Plenty of originals were brass framed.
There's good and bad quality repros just as well as originals.

My Ubertis are all great shooters, I highly recommend them.

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OGCA Member.

I had an 1860 Navy Colt. It was .45 in cal. I never fired the thing but loved it. Well, I dont know if they retain or appreciate in value or not? but they sure look and feel great. The one I had-has blued-had brass parts and had walnut grips. Anyway, I bought it when I was 21--and some thief pinched it out of the house when we were out of town attending my Grandmothers funeral.

You might want to send a PM to newby here: Hawkswill--she shoots black powder all the time and can answer your questions.

Uberti , who also makes many Cimarron guns are of excellent quality. I'd have to say most of the reproductions are of better steel and made to tighter specs than the original Colts. The Colt Blackpowder Series from the 70s was supposedly done at the Colt Hartford plant , but the 90s Colt Signature Series was an independent effort. I heard J Jovinos was somehow involved.

I have a Walker .44 from the BP Series , an 1860 Army .44 and 1858 Navy .36 from the Signature Series and an A.Uberti 1858 Remington.

All are excellent fit/finish and are fun too shoot.

Pietta's are OK too.

Don't think Armi San Marco is still in business.

Having fooled around with original Colt percussions (and replicas) off and on for about 50 years now, I have not found the new ones to be anywhere near the quality of the originals. I have had 1st and 2nd gen. Colts, Centennials, and currently have three Uberti percussions (a Walker, 3rd Model Dragoon, and a '61 Navy).

Original guns from that era are now around 150 years old, and finding one in nice shape with minimal honest wear isn't easy (or cheap). But about 30 years ago I lucked into a very, very nice 1860 Colt with a lot of blue, all the cylinder scene, was tight as a tick, and but for one minor spot in the bore, perfect. The difference between the fit and finish of that gun and replicas was like night and day. Naturally I sold it and all I got in return for it was filthy money. But it was a revelation.

I have had that same eye-opening experience with the internals of Shiloh Sharps versus originals. The Shilohs are indeed pretty and do work, but all you have to do is look at the inside of the lock and it's a whole different world. I once had occasion to disassemble a Spencer that had led a very sheltered life. The machining and vivid case colors of the very intricate breechblock were a sight to behold. It was literally a work of art.


Of my Ubertis my favorite was the '61 Navy; very pretty, very well balanced, and an excellent shooter. When the hand spring broke I had to take it down to fit a new hand and spring. Pretty rough in there, and parts durability is just too iffy for me. It's now on retired status and looks great in a fitted case. The Dragoon gets shot infrequently, and the Walker hasn't been shot at all. Their role in life is to look nice and impressive, and they do that very well. If Ubertis were made like that old original 1860 Colt with hand fitting parts of the best steels they would probably cost $1200 and up. Bear in mind, too, that the current Ubertis are probably the best of the import replicas these days.

I have had three Ruger Old Armies, and while they aren't a copy of anything, they are essentially Blackhawks--tough, reliable, and just go bang. They would have sold boxcar loads of them back in the 1860s!

I use to have a number of the Colt 2nd Generation and did well when I parted with them a few years ago.

If the plan is to just look at and display your BP revolver you really might want to go with a Colt 2nd Gen. They are collectable and have increased in value over the years. You can easily find them in new in the box condition. I expect they will continue to increase in value where the other replica likely won't.

These two C-series 1851 Navy Colts were manufactured by Colt at Hartford in 1971. Rumor has it that some work was done with original tooling but the tooling wasn't up to the job. It wasn't long before Iver Johnson was contracted to do the work for Colt using parts supplied from Italy.



This is a 1849 Pocket produced by Colt Blackpowder. There was a lawsuit over the use of the Colt Logo involved in the production of the Signature Series revolvers. Personally I would say the Signature Series and the early 1970s C-Series revolvers had the best fit and finish. The later F-series guns were still great but not up to the others. All seem to better than many of the Italian made replica, with maybe Cimarron doing the best when it comes to fit and finish.

1849 Pocket Signature Series

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Bill Bates

There are some marketed under the "TRADITIONS" label. I have heard of timing problems, but the 3-44/45's I have do fine. I haven't bought any for 5 or so years but you could find unfired copies of Army's for 1/2 to 2/3 of what they were selling for. People didn't want to clean them so they never fired them. The worst revolvers I ever saw were Navy Arms copies of 1860 Army. They were fine when they left the factory; But they were used buy a local college drama department in plays. Caps were fired in them, and since college professors know everything they weren't cleaned for 3 to 5 seasons of use. The college department head brought them into the store where they were bought with the dated reciept and wanted a refund. It was difficult to convince him that his "students" had abused the guns. Then he wanted to order a new pair and the boss refused saying, he wasn't going to sell guns to people who would only ruin them and ask the professor to leave. When the guy had left I ask why turn down the sale? Boss said the college and students caused so much grief that the $20 he'd make on the deal was worth the thumb in their eye! Ivan

Are the build it yourself kits still available? Most of you older members have seen this before. I thought the fit and finish was superior to store bought guns until I saw the pics by Bill Bates.
Mine was a kind of therapy project that took me about 6 months to finish, going fairly slowly. Timing was a stinker for a newbie! If I remember this kit was about $30.00 back in the late 70's. I gave it to my Dad as a gift and Mom gave it back to me when he died.
Did all the original 1851s have the roll engraving on the cylinder?

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Regards, Ron
USASA 1965/69

I had one like this too-the only diff between yours and the one I had was the cylinder on mine was engraved (came that way as I guess it was commemorating some special event) had a Stagecoach and horses on it.

I bought a M60 Navy Arms revolver in 1969 or '70. It was the brass frame .44; not a true reprodduction of any original revolver. Mine is still tight, even though it has been fired a fair amount.

If the price is right, go with the Navy Arms 1860.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

You want a revolver for just display. There are several members who notice the second generation Colt Blackpowder revolvers.

Personaly I do think that is a good choice. Prices are still good. You can find very nice examples out there. I do like the Colt Navy model 1851.
I do love the elegance of it.

The name Colt is on the revolver instead of Uberti. I do see rather Colt dan Uberti. Even Uberti make some good guns. Quality of Uberti is in some guns questianeble.
Look for example to the forcingcone of a Uberti made Schofield in .45 colt, and you know what I mean.

But, we could give you only advice. It is complete up to you what you like.

In pictures several of my revolvers. Exept the Original Colt US stampt Navy. Wish that was mine to.
The best replica is the Centaure Belgian made Colt model 1860.

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You must be watching "Hell On Wheels".

Check Cabelas online, they have several. I just got an 1860 Army by Pieatta. It has not been fired yet because I need some #10 caps, that I should get this week. They also have Uberti's and the best prices I found.
Fit and Finish was good.
Stay away from the unfinished kits, I looked at them at Dixie Gun Works and the cost and time to finish them were not worth the savings in price.

Cabelas has a starter kit with some of their guns and shipping for $5.

About 30 years ago, I owned a CVA Remington 1858 revolver chambered in .44 caliber. I really enjoyed it until I experienced my first "chain fire" and fired 3 chambers at the same time. Wow! That was exciting! I was very pleased that the piece held up to that event without any apparent damage. But that pretty much ended my blackpowder days.

Regards,

Dave

Here's pics of my two:





Mine are "wall hangers" Actually, one is cased with accessories. Washington has a law that you may carry a sidearm IF it is a muzzle-loading sidearm, so these go with me during BP season.Both have been de-blued using naval jelly.

Holsters, knives and sheaths are by yours truly.

Just a excuse to show my restored remington new model army again. It has been refinished, red post king front sight installed and the rear hog wallow is squared up. I havent shot it in many years but it was accurate.

Thanks for this information. IMHO, the 1860 Army is the nicest looking. Cabelas has that for $250 or $300 with the starter kit. There is one or two for less than that on Gunbroker but they may bid higher closer to auction close.

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Luke 22:36

I have the Uberti 1860 Colt Army! It is a very good shooter.

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Mafuta54

For display purposes only...I would scout the gun shows for a replica that has plenty of "Attitude" and "Character on it. Manufacturer is almost irrelevant.

If you are going to shoot it often, then the Uberti's are a great choice.

Randy

PS. I shoot 4 1860 Army's in SASS and rotate them constantly. Two are old CVA's and two are Uberti's ...all run well after I put Treso nipples in the cylinders. I use real FFFg black powder as well and cast the round balls for them....what a HOOT to shoot them!!!

We were at Calico, Ca., a real town that's now a great tourist place as far as tourist places go. Then I saw two groups of three guys each in the street with guns arguing and the reenactment gunfight began. All of a sudden I noticed havoc when the "sheriff's" gun had an obvious chain fire in hie '58 Remington. He had a surprised look then "died" which I think wasn't in the script usually. He improvised his death since he had no shots left to shoot the bad guys. I got to see first hand how a chain fire could happen right at the wrong time. Fake shootout or not, the chainfire happened and THAT was realistic.

Wyatt: when my chain fire occurred, I was shooting an old milk jug full of water that I had set on a fence post. My chain fire caused a huge boom, as well as huge cloud of smoke. One of the balls hit the cylinder release pin, and the cylinder dropped free of the frame. The friend I was shooting with thought I had experienced a huge "kaboom", and had blown my gun up. I was so happy no one, especially me, was hurt, and then that the revolver wasn't damaged, either. There was a big smear of lead on the cylinder release pin, but that cleared right off without any problems. Oh, the milk jug I was shooting at? We're still waiting for that to reenter the earth's atmosphere.

Regards,

Dave

My grandfather is huge into black powder firearms in general, but especially revolvers. I've gotten to shoot Pietta's which are nice, Uberti's which are nicer....but nothing compares to the original Navy he gave me. That gun feels like an extension of your hand with an action that is just perfect to me.

If your going to buy one and not spend a fortune get yourself an Uberti and it will be worth pretty close to what you gave for it if you ever want to sell it in my experience.

I hope the OP doesn't mind this question. Looking at Ubertis website I noticed they had 1851s and 1860 revolvers with fluted cylinders. Is this an original feature?

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Regards, Ron
USASA 1965/69

I had a .44 bp revolver years ago and didn't care for washing it to clean it. I used Crisco to prevent a chain fire. I mentioned this recently to my girlfriend and she was surprised that that could happen. I assured her it was very exciting.

BTW, a friend was using Crisco and his wife was grumbling that he was shooting up all the food in the house.

I can get an Uberti for $284 plus sales tax locally (special order at an Uberti dealer). I guess I will go ahead with that. MSRP is $359. That is just a few dollars more than a Pietta.

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Luke 22:36

I have not owned a BP revolver in almost 10 years but now you've got me thinking about them again. To make it worse Cabelas is having an online sale with free store delivery and last night I received a $20 off cupon good for any online purchase over $150.

There is a gen 3 Colt on GB.com for $304.99 with one day and three hours till it sells. There is a Pietta 1860 Army with a high bid of $165.99 with almost two days till it sells. There is a Navy Arms (unfired) with case and accessories for $375 buy it now.

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Luke 22:36

If you have neither the skill or patience I'd agree. However if you want to learn about home gunsmithing without messing up a classic, kits are the way to go. My 1851 is not perfect but I still take a lot of pride in the fact I did everything but the casting and the blueing.

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Regards, Ron
USASA 1965/69

I bought a kit out of Shooting Time 41 years ago for $24.95, a 36 caliber brass framed 1951 Navy. I put it together and finished it under my dads supervision. He did the polishing and hot blued it in his tanks. I learned how to tune a single action till I was done with it. I just had it out awhile ago and its still as much fun to shoot as it was 41 years ago. I was at my local Cabelas this past sunday and almost came home with a Uberti 1858 Remington but I found a 1980 Ruger SBH in unfired condition that I couldn't pass up. Next time I'm there I will be bringing another cap n' ball revolver home though!

It depends upon what you want and are willing to put up with on one.

For display, the brass framed guns do have the nicest look, except perhaps for some of the charcoal blued ones...

I've had a couple of Armi San Marco dragoons, and they worked just fine, and I wound up shooting them a bunch and traded them off for some other various sundry items, and I'd buy some again if the price is right.

The Pietta guns of late are very good quality- imported by many importers such as Cabelas, Traditions, Dixie and some others- not all have the same variations of models, but many overlap and you can find a deal sometimes. The best shooting pair of Armys that I have ever had are Pietta, and I've gone through a couple of thousand rounds with them at the very least without a hitch.

The Ubertis are great quality too, but some early ones really do need a lot of adjustment. Spare parts for Uberti revolvers will be more expensive, and are not available at all times, why I don't know.

As for the brass frames, they can last forever if you keep the loads reasonable. I've had a 12" brass .44 for decades now and it's still fairly tight even though I shot hot loads through it before I knew better.

There is no "perfect" percussion revolver. All of them will require some finesse to get to regulated well, action smoothly and function reliably.

Shooting holy black is an art in my opinion. It is something that you're either born loving, or develop a taste over time to partake.







I wouldn't fiddle with the "starter kits" from Cabelas or anyone else.
There is a great write up on what you really need and what to expect- just do an internet search on "so you want a cap and ball revolver" and a thread will come up that is one of the most definitive I've read, and is the place to start.

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Lost it all in a boat accident

this thread comes at a good time for me, have been shopping for a percussion revolver and was almost sucked into buying a 3rd gen dragoon for 1100 . i was a little short or i probably would have , i thought they were real colts .it is prettier than the other uberti dragoon on the same site for 375 though. or 390 apiece brand new for 1860 army's ,kinda leaning that way now....maybe
i tried c/b for the first time this year, i want more!
i tried a cylinder full of 44 round ball with 38 gr of black if i remember right .lots of smoke, decent recoil but not obnoxious at all. real fun .
i know youve already decided but for display i would suggest getting an old original that is maybe a little worn out or broken. get it cheaper and if its on display people are gonna look at it, they wont like seeing "uberti-made in italy" stamped on it. it will cheapen the effect of the display in my opinion

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the rules? there are no rules

RonJ; yes colt did produce some 1860 armys with the fluted clyinder towards the very end of production although the unfluted clyinders far outnumbered them.

My 1860 Uberti I bought used is just a fine shooter. Shooting it the first time was a revelation. Remember your first girlfriend? Well, it was nothing like that but that mellow "kaboom!" was just plain satisfying. Especially when I aimed a foot and a half under a floating plastic bottle to account for that little front sight and sending that jug into the air! Here it is in the holster for my John Gren .44 Special black powder only conversion. I need to make a belt without cartridge loops for the 1860. Notice the front sight on the conversion is tall than a standard 1860. I requested it that way for 215 grain bullets.

Steel frames are for shooting, the brass frames are to represent the ones made by the Confederates from church bells, etc. because they were so short of iron and steel.
My favorite is the Colt Dragoon.I like its heft and firing full power loads is like shooting 38 Soecials out of a N frame. I use cheap store brand "Crisco" to prevent hangfires.

I ordered a Uberti 1860 revolver. This is the one I ordered. It has a steel backstrap but brass triggerguard. Cost was $303 and change OTD. There were 5 in stock at Uberti and the dealer said they don't ship fast. He is guessing 2 weeks.

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Luke 22:36

Can't argue with the above posts. I prefer the looks of the Remington 1858 New Model Army to the Colt 1860. If I had one, and only one, as a display piece, it's hard to beat the 1851 Colt Navy for absolute classic looks. Having said that, I found it hard to have to just one. :-) WG