I called S&W today to inquire about sending in a gun I recently purchased that had some problems. The first thing I was asked was whether I was the original purchaser. I answered that I was not.

The next thing I was told was that if I sent the gun in I would have to wait 4 months for them to respond with what was wrong and the cost to repair and then I would have to wait an additional 4 months (8 months total) until the gun was returned to me. I was not asking for warranty work, I was not asking for a free mailer, all I wanted was service on a S&W gun and was willing to pay for it.

S&W is free to run their business in the way they think is proper, but as a consumer I can't buy guns that don't have proper support from the factory. For me, no more Smith & Wessons, new or used, until the company figures out how to service their product in a timely manner.

Bill

I hope you have better luck with the other manufacturers of firearms.

S&W probably is backed up with work, which is a good thing in the world of business, I think they closed for 2 weeks vacation in August, not positive.

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Doesn't hasta call me Johnson

Unfortunately, its like a "perfect storm" for S&W. As Labworm mentioned, the whole company just got back from a two week vacation. While they were out a new computer system was installed, slowing them down that much more. Add to that the normal high demand for their products. Add to that the gun buying panic that is now starting to slow(a little!). Add to that the Massive Shield recall going on. It bites to have to wait almost a year for your repair, it really does. I wouldn't be happy myself. I really believe S&W is running as hard as they can.

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Lounge Lizard Extraordinaire

I sent my 586 in for some work last year.

Between the wait time for them to write up an estimate, mail me the estimate, me to send payment, them complete the work, it took several months for the whole cycle to be completed.

When I got it back, it was 100% as I wanted it. They did a perfect job on it.
It's not a lack of service that is the problem - it is an overwhelming volume of work.

They do nice work. Some things are worth the wait.

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Edit:
On the other hand, since your work will not be warranty, that frees you up to have any gunsmith you want work on your gun.
Is there anybody local that could use the business? Or any well-known gunsmith you've always wanted to try?
May be worth looking into.

I suspect they gave the OP the worst case scenario. With the current backlog, and the foreseeable tidal wave, I can see where elective service work could be seriously delayed.

If the repair department is that busy, I guess you could read that two ways.
I can't believe that you guys are OK with him having to wait 4 months just for a repair estimate.

Are we starting a letter writing campaign? Boycott?

He could always contact an independent gunsmith. If there is enogh demand, the free market will supply it.

There are plenty of independent gunsmiths around that can do most repairs on a S&W.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

I just sent a 1911 back to Rock Island Armory. It has an occasional FTF the last round out of any mag. Not every time, but enough to be a concern. They said send it back, sent me a label, and instructions on packing and shipping. I also inquired about some new sights, they said buy them, from a list out of the Brownells catalog and they would install them for a fee. I was stated a turn around time of 2-3 weeks for the work. Let's hope that holds true.

bob

We are all big fans of the brand. I own revolvers and 3rd Gens. But for me, I think the handwriting is on the wall. Three years ago I needed a slide stop assembly for a 457S. I called up and they told me that they didn't have any but they had to do a run. Three or 4 months later they still didn't have the slide stop.

They told me to send the gun in. In my opinion the reason the slide stop exploded into it's component parts from a light drop to the floor was because either the original pin was out of spec or the hole that the pin locks into was wrong. Anyway, I paid the fee to get them the gun.

It took about 6 weeks to get the gun back and they had put in a slide stop that works but has an elongated notch in the center, either a previous rejected part or a conversion from something else. That gun was only about 5 years old at the time.

It is clear to me that the 3rd Gens are not going to get full repair support from the factory. For me that means I will not buy any more and probably just "phase them out". Unfortunately for S&W I don't really like their M&P line so I can't move on to that. There are always alternatives. Last night I took out my Glock 23, put it on and found that it concealed about as well as my single stack .45s.

For numerous reason I really prefer the 3rd Gens over the Glock for everyday carry. But one of the reasons I stopped carrying the Glock originally was that I thought it was too much gun for my CCW needs.

But the real question is, Why can't S&W make money on repair? If they treated it as a profit center they would staff it properly, train people to do the work and have an assured stream of business based off the millions of older guns that are out their and still in use.

Bill

I just had to send my M&P9 back for repair.
The tech guy never asked if I was the original purchaser or if I had created the problem.
He just asked the pistols serial number, my name, address, phone number and e-mail address.
S&W then e-mailed me a prepaid FedEx mailing label and shipping instructions. S&W is paying shipping, insured, both ways.
And I never sent in my warranty card so they had no idea if I was the orginal owner.
My experience so far has been completely different that yours.

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Proud NRA Patron Member

of the threads that i have seen like this, i have noticed those that are to take months seem to be older models. Dot mdb, what model is the gun in question? is it still in production? if not, then when was the last time it was in production?

here is my thinking with the extended repair time. if it is a model no longer in production, repair parts may not be readily available and may need remanufactured. if that is the case, it may be awhile before they have time on their machines to do a few one off of parts. with the rush of new purchases that has happened in the last 10 months, manufacturers are just starting to get caught up. they have customers that have had money down on new firearms before the call for repair was made. it's a first come first served kind of deal and you are at the end of the line. i also think that the wait time given will be a worst case kind of situation as i had sent a new 15-22 back for repairs in april and had it back in about 8 days i believe. of course they are making lots of those and have plenty of parts available.

so think of it this way-New, in production models have parts readily available so they get repaired fairly quickly.
older, discontinued models get put in a different line as parts may need to be made, or found. these are being told longer wait times to ensure that smith has time to procure the part.

just my thoughts...

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SDMF

The gun in question is a 457. Fortunately I have a 457S that is my EDC and works properly. I guess that the 457 has been out of production for about 8 years or possibly a little less. I agree that being out of production has something to do with the long wait.

Look, the reason they asked me if I was the original owner is because it is an out of production gun. If I was calling in for an M&P they may not bother to ask because they are gung ho to sell the M&P line but are not so interested in the older stuff. And that is the whole point that I was making. I own a good number of 3rd Gens. S&W is not really interesting in supporting those guns. I have two experiences with this now and that is something I can't ignore. The first experience happened 3 years ago before there was the current panic.

Furthermore, what difference should it make if I am an original owner or not? It is good business to support the products out there because a strong resale market with high prices is good for current production also, because sometimes trade-ins or sales are where the money comes from for a new purchase.

Without support, the price of 3rd Gens are too high compared to new guns with factory warranty and support. If parts are not available local gunsmiths are not going to be able to fix these guns. I also don't trust local "gunsmiths who were probably not trained at the factory and don't have all of the proper gauges etc. Just my experience based on guns as well as auto repair.

Bill

I am currently having the same problem with S&W repair service. The magazine safety on my M41 began to malfunction so that the pistol will not shoot, even with a mag inserted. Should be a very simple fix.

I sent the pistol to S&W at their direction in July. I still have not gotten their "estimate". I was told the repair would be 4 months after the "estimate" and my payment for the service.

This sucks by any concept of manufacturer support, busy or not.

In contrast, 15 years ago their repair service was lightning fast and done at no charge for a M29 repair I had at the time.

Independent , yes.

But are they competent?

The reason they are so back up is because people are willing to wait because they will have it done right.

I can't think of any local 'gunsmith' that I would trust with any of my S&W's.

Like the sign on my local independent and competent motorcycle shop says.

You can have it done;

A. Correct
B. Fast
C. Cheap

Pick any two!

Correct and fast? It won't be cheap!

Fast and cheap? It won't be correct!

I had a similar problem with mine a couple years ago. Turned out it was so dirty the trigger wasn't resetting. I had to almost completely strip it down to get to the gunk, it works perfectly now.

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Common sense isn't so common.

I bought a 629 from a forum member...it had an undisclosed push-off problem. I contacted S&W about it and a 657 I wanted some custom work done on. I sent them in together. They fixed both and didn't charge for the 629 repair. Turn around was March to May. I can't complain.

Thanks for the suggestion. I already tried that. Mine is clean enough for a hospital OR but still malfunctions.

I also ruled out a worn magazine. I have 7 or 8 magazines, all in like-new condition. Malfunctions with all.

I sent in a 315 Night Guard (no longer made) in March to have an action job and target trigger and hammer installed. I was originally told 4-6 months. I was called in June with an estimate, paid promptly, and was told it would be 4-6 weeks from the time of payment. Well, here it is September 9th, I am 11 days shy of 6 months. I have heard the "we don't have parts for that revolver"...(oh yes they do), I have heard the "computer system" story also. I do have a customer support rep that has been helping recently and he told me that their new software for repairs (not warranty work) isn't working, so they can't close out repairs on the computer to release the guns to be shipped out I could be looking at weeks/months more time before "maybe" they will do the work and return it to me. I asked if the computer problems precluded any repair work being done (he said "pretty much"), but that since they also do work on M&P stuff, they were staying quite busy. Aren't the rifle recalls M&P? Is this why no standard upgrades are being done? I am beyond understanding how a business can operate this way. How you allow a software problem to persist for over a month (if that is even a valid story)? My options are (as of today), wait it out or they can send the revolver back to me without doing the work and they will refund the money but he couldn't say how long that would take I am ready to start letter writing, just need to find out who the CEO of Smith and Wesson is and a valid mailing address. Am I upset? Oh hell yes !!!!! Am I sorely disappointed in S&W, who I have been a staunch supporter of for 40 years? Uh huh. Aaaaaaarrrrggggggghhhhhhh.

For a while there was a warranty section right on the web site, You just filled it out and they e mailed a Fed Ex labels. I can not find that now. There was no need to call.

Has that been discontinued??

I never had a problem returning a gun to them??

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Still Running Against the Wind

It was removed.

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Sure you did

Thanks I failed the ridling test fred

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Still Running Against the Wind

You are free to feel the way that you do. However, take into account how many S&W firearms are out there, then contemplate how many of those may be in for repairs/custom work/etc. Now imagine how many gunsmiths they have employed. Warranty work most likely takes precedence over customer paid work, especially on an older gun. Look at it from this perspective: Say you bought a classic Ferrari and wanted to have work done on it by the factory. They don't produce that model any longer, and may have to fabricate parts, etc, expect to wait quite a while for the finished customizations/repairs. You COULD go somewhere else to have the work done, but it wouldn't be real Ferrari. Personally, I wouldn't fully judge a company based upon one scenario that may or may not be accurately described, especially when you don't know all of the variables that may be present.

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M&P40c/15-22/SD9VE/Mossy500

One question nobody has ask is "Who is doing this repair work at S&W"? The answer is the Performance Center! I have toured the factory on two different occasions and have met these people. These are the true "gunsmiths" of S&W and there are not many of them, maybe 5 or 6 people, maybe more now! The work load of the PC is very high. They produce all the PC models, many of the limited runs for distributors, do all the warrantee work, do all the custom work, then they can do the repair work in the remaining time. The PC part of the company must make money to stay alive so they do the work that will make the most money first! If the repair work was charged at the skill level required to do the work nobody would pay the bill because it would be cheaper to buy a new gun. Nobody likes to wait, but we must look at what is being done and by whom. Like stated before, A = Correct, B = Fast, C = cheap, PICK TWO ! !
jcelect SWCA#LM723

First of all, if the PC is doing the repair work, than that makes no sense at all. Repair should be a separate facility and a separate profit center. I was at the factory about 10 - 12 years ago and I don't recall that it was the PC doing the repairs at that time.

As a major player in the firearms field, S&W should be training gunsmiths. Gunsmithing is a trade and the highest skill is not always needed for every job. Obviously there would be different levels of experience among the workforce and jobs would be assigned based on the experience needed.

Maybe there is too much warranty work because there is not enough quality control in the manufacturing section.

Sorry, but you don't wind up with an 8 month backlog on repairs if the company was managed properly.

no american company is being managed properly. it's all about profits. they ALL want maximum output from minimum workforce. I'm sure they have their kaizon events that do nothing except make some people who think they are important feel like they made an improvement, but in reality handcuffs the worker. welcome to the new american manufacturing process. it sucks.

as far as the new program goes, if they spent lots o' money on it, it will stay. case in point, my employer, a multi-billion dollar company with around 20 printing plants throughout the States and 1 in mexico purchased a program for printers in 2010. they spent upwards of 2 million, including the workstations/install, and training. within 6 months they knew it was a flop. within a year, they had lost a couple hundred thousand dollars, lost customers, etc because of this progam. yet we still run. it has been improved, but it is not where it should be. the ceo said it would be too much of a loss to just abandon it. that we needed to keep trying and working with the publishers to make it work.

i agree that 8 months is ridiculous, but companies are not run like they used to be. it's harder to make a profit and they need to do what they have to to maximize that profit. if that means losing one or two customers on repairs that won't net a lot of return, while gaining 4 or 5 new customers that will net more. then the repair work gets put off. is it right? no, is it the way the economy is? unfortunately.

i guess what i am saying is that it is every american business that is trying to make money and the $$$ are what matters to them, not the customers or employees. However, Smith seems to be a little better ot some aspects than most, but not so good at others.

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SDMF