The Non-Firearms Manufacturers' Firearms Photo Thread

[bmcgilvray]

Would you be willing to trust in, and commit to using firearms that were produced by manufacturing concerns with no prior firearms manufacturing experience? Companies that built a business producing goods having nothing to do with firearms? Firearms that were rushed to the end user in some cases without a lot of field testing? Would you consider relying on such a firearm at a crucial time when you desperately needed self-protection during an emergency?

Our nation did just that during both World Wars. Non-firearms manufacturers of all kinds were tapped to produce all manner of small arms to equip the "Arsenal of Democracy" during a time of great crisis. While most Forum members are aware of the many different prime contractors who produced small arms during wartime some perhaps are unaware of the extent of manufacturers who successfully produced weaponry though having no prior experience. Perhaps readers can mention some additional prime contractors not having anything to do with firearms manufacture but producing firearms nonetheless. Feel free to contribute to this thread.

Three such firearms live around here. On the one hand it's amusing to use a gun made by a typewriter manufacturer but it is also a sobering thought to consider that a national emergency required such firearms to be produced. That such firearms served with great distinction is a tribute to American manufacturing skill. The big question is: Could we do it again? There's no reason to assume that we will never again be compelled to resort to such planning and production to adequately arm the nation in future.



1903-A3 produced by the Smith Corona Company, M1 Carbine produced by the Underwood Elliott Fisher, 1911A1 produced by Remington Rand. All three were produced by companies whose peacetime business was typewriter production.





Receiver and barrel markings of the Smith Corona '03A3 (still wearing its RIG coat)




You'll just have to assume that the receiver is marked "Underwood" as the marking is mostly covered by the "Type II" rear sight which was a mid-WWII armorer modification of the original "flip" sight. Barrel marking is shown as well.



Roll marking on the slide of the Remington Rand M1911A1.





Another non-firearms M1 Carbine, my dad's Quality Hardware Machine Company example. This particular all-original carbine was produced by Quality Hardware using a barrel produced by Rock-Ola, a manufacturer of jukeboxes. Rock-Ola was a prime contractor for the M1 Carbine, and in addition to supplying other prime contractors with component parts, produced M1 Carbines roll-marked with its own name.

Listed below are most prime contractors who produced arms for World War I, World War II and even as late as beyond the cease fire of the Korean War. Notice how many were not traditional gun makers. As a small child, I recall badly stumping my toe on a large object in the floor of a relative's very cluttered and semi-dark garage and bawling and squalling over the event. I was told at the time it was a machine gun. Later, as a teen I found out it was the receiver of an M2 .50. Close examination revealed it was produced by the "A/C Spark Plug Division of General Motors Corp."

So, I've sustained an injury from a .50 caliber machine gun.

1911 and 1911A1 pistol

World War I production 1911 pistols

Colt's Patent Firearms Manufacturing Company- arms manufacturer
North American Arms Company- arms manufacturer
Remington UMC- arms manufacturer
Springfield Armory- (U.S. Government facility)
A. J. Savage Company- arms manufacturer (slides only)

World War II production 1911A1 pistols

Colt's Patent Firearms Manufacturing Company- arms manufacturer
Ithaca Gun Company Incorporated- arms manufacturer
Remington Rand Company- typewriters, business machines, shavers
The Singer Company- sewing machines (scarce, only around 500 made)
Union Switch & Signal- railway signaling equipment and services

1903 and 1903A3 Springfield

Springfield Armory- (U.S. Government facility)
Rock Island Arsenal- (U.S. Government facility)
Remington Arms - arms maker
Smith Corona Company- typewriters, business machines

M1 Carbine

Winchester Repeating Arms Company- arms maker
Inland Manufacturing Division of General Motors Corporation- subsidiary of GM
Underwood Elliot Fisher- typewriters, office equipment
Rock-Ola Company- jukeboxes, novelty and slot machines
Quality Hardware Machine Corporation- hardware, fasteners
National Postal Meter Company- postal meters, mail handling equipment
Irwin Pedersen Arms- Company Formed specifically to manufacture Carbines. Failed the attempt. (Rare)
Standard Products Company- automotive parts and equipment
Saginaw Steering Gear Division of General Motors- automotive components, gearboxes
International Business Machines Corporation- business machines

M1

Springfield Armory- (U.S. Government facility)
Winchester Repeating Arms Company- arms maker
International Harvester- (1950s contractor) trucks, tractors, farming machinery and implements
Harrington & Richardson- (1950s contractor) arms maker


The contractors producing the models listed below are likely incomplete and could use some attention. I have reference works for the models listed above but don't have anything definitive on hand for these guns.

M3 Grease Gun

Guide Lamp division of GM- automotive electrical components
Ithaca Gun Company- arms manufacturer

Thompson and M1A1

Auto Ordnance Corporation- arms maker
Colt's Patent Firearms Manufacturing Company- arms maker
Savage Arms Company- arms maker

Browning Automatic Rifle

World War I production

Colt's Patent Firearms Manufacturing Company- arms maker
Winchester Repeating Arms Company- arms maker
Marlin-Rockwell (later Marlin Firearms)- arms maker

World War II production

Colt's Patent Firearms Manufacturing Company- arms maker
New England Small Arms Corporation- arms maker
International Business Machines Corporation- business machines
Royal McBee Typewriter Company- (1950s production) typewriters


M1919 Browning .30 Machine Gun

Frigidaire Division of GM- air conditioners, cooling equipment, household appliances
A/C Spark Plug Division of GM- spark plugs, automotive electrical components
Saginaw Steering Gear Division of GM- automotive components
Brown-Lipe-Chapin Division of GM- maker of gearboxes, transmissions
Winchester Repeating Arms Company- arms maker
Remington Arms Company- arms maker
Colt's Patent Firearms Manufacturing Company- arms maker
Springfield Armory- (U.S. Government facility)
Rock Island Arsenal- (U.S Government facility)
Frankford Arsenal- (U.S. Government facility)
High Standard Manufacturing Company- arms maker
Buffalo Arms Corporation- arms maker
Kelsey-Hays Wheel Company- automotive and industrial wheels


M2 .50 Machine Gun

Colt's Patent Firearms Company- arms maker
High Standard Manufacturing Company- arms maker
Savage Arms Company- arms maker
Buffalo Arms Corporation- arms maker
Frigidaire Division of GM- air conditioners, cooling equipment, household appliances
AC Spark Plug Division of GM- spark plugs, automotive electrical components
Brown-Lipe-Chappin- Division of GM maker of gearboxes, transmissions
Saginaw Divisions of GM- automotive components, gearboxes
Kelsey Hayes Wheel Company- automotive and industrial wheels


This list does not include all the myriad sub-contractors who funneled small parts and even large components to the prime contractors. For instance Union Switch & Signal produced some receivers for Quality Hardware's use in its M1 Carbine contract. These will be marked "UN-QUALITY." Some of the troops were said to be upset with "second rate guns" stamped so.

It also doesn't consider additional contractors who provided attachments and accouterments for the weapons of the World Wars. For instance I have a M1942 bayonet marked "A. F. & H", American Fork & Hoe company, a hand implement maker who obtained a contract to make bayonets for the government. And, we shouldn't forget the M91 Mosin Nagants produced by New England Westinghouse over several years in the 1915-1918 time period for the hapless Czar Nicolas II. Lots more of this kind of stuff is out there.

Let's see if we can add to the list through Forum members' knowledge and collections. Photos added would be appreciated.

[-db-]

General Motors' Hydra-Matic Division (automatic transmissions) produced M16A1 rifles, or at least receiver forgings, during the later years of the Vietnam War.

[the ringo kid]

Originally Posted by bmcgilvray

Would you be willing to trust in, and commit to using firearms that were produced by manufacturing concerns with no prior firearms manufacturing experience? Companies that built a business producing goods having nothing to do with firearms? Firearms that were rushed to the end user in some cases without a lot of field testing? Would you consider relying on such a firearm at a crucial time when you desperately needed self-protection during an emergency?

Our nation did just that during both World Wars. Non-firearms manufacturers of all kinds were tapped to produce all manner of small arms to equip the "Arsenal of Democracy" during a time of great crisis. While most Forum members are aware of the many different prime contractors who produced small arms during wartime some perhaps are unaware of the extent of manufacturers who successfully produced weaponry though having no prior experience. Perhaps readers can mention some additional prime contractors not having anything to do with firearms manufacture but producing firearms nonetheless. Feel free to contribute to this thread.

Three such firearms live around here. On the one hand it's amusing to use a gun made by a typewriter manufacturer but it is also a sobering thought to consider that a national emergency required such firearms to be produced. That such firearms served with great distinction is a tribute to American manufacturing skill. The big question is: Could we do it again? There's no reason to assume that we will never again be compelled to resort to such planning and production to adequately arm the nation in future.



1903-A3 produced by the Smith Corona Company, M1 Carbine produced by the Underwood Elliott Fisher, 1911A1 produced by Remington Rand. All three were produced by companies whose peacetime business was typewriter production.





Receiver and barrel markings of the Smith Corona '03A3 (still wearing its RIG coat)




You'll just have to assume that the receiver is marked "Underwood" as the marking is mostly covered by the "Type II" rear sight which was a mid-WWII armorer modification of the original "flip" sight. Barrel marking is shown as well.



Roll marking on the slide of the Remington Rand M1911A1.





Another non-firearms M1 Carbine, my dad's Quality Hardware Machine Company example. This particular all-original carbine was produced by Quality Hardware using a barrel produced by Rock-Ola, a manufacturer of jukeboxes. Rock-Ola was a prime contractor for the M1 Carbine, and in addition to supplying other prime contractors with component parts, produced M1 Carbines roll-marked with its own name.

Listed below are most prime contractors who produced arms for World War I, World War II and even as late as beyond the cease fire of the Korean War. Notice how many were not traditional gun makers. As a small child, I recall badly stumping my toe on a large object in the floor of a relative's very cluttered and semi-dark garage and bawling and squalling over the event. I was told at the time it was a machine gun. Later, as a teen I found out it was the receiver of an M2 .50. Close examination revealed it was produced by the "A/C Spark Plug Division of General Motors Corp."

So, I've sustained an injury from a .50 caliber machine gun.

1911 and 1911A1 pistol

World War I production 1911 pistols

Colt's Patent Firearms Manufacturing Company- arms manufacturer
North American Arms Company- arms manufacturer
Remington UMC- arms manufacturer
Springfield Armory- (U.S. Government facility)
A. J. Savage Company- arms manufacturer (slides only)

World War II production 1911A1 pistols

Colt's Patent Firearms Manufacturing Company- arms manufacturer
Ithaca Gun Company Incorporated- arms manufacturer
Remington Rand Company- typewriters, business machines, shavers
The Singer Company- sewing machines (scarce, only around 500 made)
Union Switch & Signal- railway signaling equipment and services

1903 and 1903A3 Springfield

Springfield Armory- (U.S. Government facility)
Rock Island Arsenal- (U.S. Government facility)
Remington Arms - arms maker
Smith Corona Company- typewriters, business machines

M1 Carbine

Winchester Repeating Arms Company- arms maker
Inland Manufacturing Division of General Motors Corporation- subsidiary of GM
Underwood Elliot Fisher- typewriters, office equipment
Rock-Ola Company- jukeboxes, novelty and slot machines
Quality Hardware Machine Corporation- hardware, fasteners
National Postal Meter Company- postal meters, mail handling equipment
Irwin Pedersen Arms- Company Formed specifically to manufacture Carbines. Failed the attempt. (Rare)
Standard Products Company- automotive parts and equipment
Saginaw Steering Gear Division of General Motors- automotive components, gearboxes
International Business Machines Corporation- business machines

M1

Springfield Armory- (U.S. Government facility)
Winchester Repeating Arms Company- arms maker
International Harvester- (1950s contractor) trucks, tractors, farming machinery and implements
Harrington & Richardson- (1950s contractor) arms maker


The contractors producing the models listed below are likely incomplete and could use some attention. I have reference works for the models listed above but don't have anything definitive on hand for these guns.

M3 Grease Gun

Guide Lamp division of GM- automotive electrical components
Ithaca Gun Company- arms manufacturer

Thompson and M1A1

Auto Ordnance Corporation- arms maker
Colt's Patent Firearms Manufacturing Company- arms maker
Savage Arms Company- arms maker

Browning Automatic Rifle

World War I production

Colt's Patent Firearms Manufacturing Company- arms maker
Winchester Repeating Arms Company- arms maker
Marlin-Rockwell (later Marlin Firearms)- arms maker

World War II production

Colt's Patent Firearms Manufacturing Company- arms maker
New England Small Arms Corporation- arms maker
International Business Machines Corporation- business machines
Royal McBee Typewriter Company- (1950s production) typewriters


M1919 Browning .30 Machine Gun

Frigidaire Division of GM- air conditioners, cooling equipment, household appliances
A/C Spark Plug Division of GM- spark plugs, automotive electrical components
Saginaw Steering Gear Division of GM- automotive components
Brown-Lipe-Chapin Division of GM- maker of gearboxes, transmissions
Winchester Repeating Arms Company- arms maker
Remington Arms Company- arms maker
Colt's Patent Firearms Manufacturing Company- arms maker
Springfield Armory- (U.S. Government facility)
Rock Island Arsenal- (U.S Government facility)
Frankford Arsenal- (U.S. Government facility)
High Standard Manufacturing Company- arms maker
Buffalo Arms Corporation- arms maker
Kelsey-Hays Wheel Company- automotive and industrial wheels


M2 .50 Machine Gun

Colt's Patent Firearms Company- arms maker
High Standard Manufacturing Company- arms maker
Savage Arms Company- arms maker
Buffalo Arms Corporation- arms maker
Frigidaire Division of GM- air conditioners, cooling equipment, household appliances
AC Spark Plug Division of GM- spark plugs, automotive electrical components
Brown-Lipe-Chappin- Division of GM maker of gearboxes, transmissions
Saginaw Divisions of GM- automotive components, gearboxes
Kelsey Hayes Wheel Company- automotive and industrial wheels


This list does not include all the myriad sub-contractors who funneled small parts and even large components to the prime contractors. For instance Union Switch & Signal produced some receivers for Quality Hardware's use in its M1 Carbine contract. These will be marked "UN-QUALITY." Some of the troops were said to be upset with "second rate guns" stamped so.

It also doesn't consider additional contractors who provided attachments and accouterments for the weapons of the World Wars. For instance I have a M1942 bayonet marked "A. F. & H", American Fork & Hoe company, a hand implement maker who obtained a contract to make bayonets for the government. And, we shouldn't forget the M91 Mosin Nagants produced by New England Westinghouse over several years in the 1915-1918 time period for the hapless Czar Nicolas II. Lots more of this kind of stuff is out there.

Let's see if we can add to the list through Forum members' knowledge and collections. Photos added would be appreciated.

I had once owned Lt. Gen Francis P. Hardaways 1942 Remington Rand .45. Ive been kicking myself since i got rid of it in a trade about 15 years ago. All his gun showed was some slight holster wear on the front. I took that out a few times and it fired perfectly. So to answer your question--yes--I trust non-firearms manufacturers.

[JayCeeNC]

A well-known revolver manufacturer was once owned by a plumbing supply company....

[mkk41]

You Smith Corona is a bit earlier than mine.

Barrels were supposedly made by High Standard.

Remington Rand 1911A1s were generally regarded as the best of WWII pistol production. Even better than Colt. They used the tooling provided by Singer when they got tapped to produce other stuff.

Kind of pulled a quick one here. It's a Remington Rand slide that I acquired in mint condition , so I slow rust blued it and fitted it to a Springfield Armory frame. Genuine WWII USGI parts fill it out.The odd half-moon in the blue above the slide lock notch is because they were spot-annealed there after the slide was heat treated.



The quality control for weapons and ordnance contractors and sub-contractors was rigid and impressive. Officers were assigned to inspect and approve all methods and inspectors used master gages provided by Springfield Armory. There were no 'tolerances'. Parts fit the master gages or they were rejected.

I've seen signs that weapons plants had hanging up. One of my favorites was, "Build every one as if it were for YOUR son!"

Sad to say I don't think American manufacturing will ever reach that high level again.

[swilli41]

The interesting thing about Singer manufacturing the 1911A1 is that they got "fired" because the quality was too good. They were moved on to manufacture more precision items like bomb sights (think that might be right). Some of Singer's 1911's were given to other manufacturers as the standard to achieve in their own manufacturing operations.

[mkk41]

Originally Posted by swilli41

The interesting thing about Singer manufacturing the 1911A1 is that they got "fired" because the quality was too good. They were moved on to manufacture more precision items like bomb sights (think that might be right). Some of Singer's 1911's were given to other manufacturers as the standard to achieve in their own manufacturing operations.

Very true.

[Road Rat]

I'm still proud of how we - America - could stop making typewriters, etc., and immediately turn out the items needed to fight a war on two fronts...............and everybody pitched in.

Try that today and we would get our backsides handed to us......oh, we may yet!!

[bmcgilvray]

Hi mkk41;

What's the barrel date on your Smith Corona?

[G-Mac]

I always liked the Mattel M-16.....

[mkk41]

Originally Posted by bmcgilvray

Hi mkk41;

What's the barrel date on your Smith Corona?

Dunno offhand.

I'll dig it out tomorrow.

[chud333]

If you hand the proper tooling to "Jim Bobs manufacturing"
along with the materials, anyone could make military grade
weapons in the past 2 world wars. With todays weaponry
and the introduction of specilization, ie smart weapons, and
heads up sights etc.. i believe those days are long gone.
If this Country we're ever pressed into another World War
it would be a couple or three companies with the contracts
to supply as opposed to the myriad of manufacturers in the
past. The degree of accuracy and the ranges of which todays
arms must be effective would no doubt limit the companies
able to produce such work in the quantities needed to outfit
a large fighting force. Just my humble opinion.

Chuck

[bearfoot]

in swissvale, pa. they built mi-a carbines. and 45 cal pistols. it was called Switch & Signel. the buildings are still there. but they were converted to apts. from what i heard they were also top quality.

[Skeetr57]

You don't mention the M1917 Enfield of WWI. It was made by Winchester, Remington and Eddystone. Eddystone had been a locomotive works, I believe.
Also, a couple of the non-firearms companies did have a firearms connection.
The Smith of Smith-Corona was LC Smith who built shotguns before he sold the business to Hunter so that he could build typewriters. The Brown of Brown-Lipe-Chapin was Alexander Brown who designed the LC Smith hammer type shotgun and the hammerless LC Smith shotgun before going with LC Smith to design typewriters and still later going out on his own to design gears and transmissions.

[shouldazagged]

This is fascinating stuff, some of which I knew but a hell of a lot of which I didn't. I learn so much here!

[bmcgilvray]

Do know that Remington opened and operated the Eddystone facility. It may have been in the manufacturing complex that built Baldwin locomotives.

[4506517]

Wait.....what revolver company was owned by a plumbing supply company? I really don't know.

Could someone explain?

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Originally Posted by 4506517

Wait.....what revolver company was owned by a plumbing supply company? I really don't know.

Could someone explain?

Smith & Wesson

[2152hq]

New England Westinghouse Company,, a somewhat quickly formed sub-company of the Westinghouse Electric Corp, went into business in 1915 making Mosin-Nagant rifles for Russia (Czar).

The plant they were made in was part of the Stevens Arms plant in Chicopee Falls MA where Stevens was having it's own financial problems.
US Gov't 'helped' the large Westinghouse Corp secure the facilitys (and probably the contract).
Very confusing set of circumstances surrounding the set up of the factory including payments from England to provide machinery.
The short of it is that the Russians defaulted on the contract,,well the Czar got dead so he couldn't pay.
N/E Westinghouse ( and Remington who was also making these for Russia) turned to the US Gov't and Unc'a Sam bought out the remaining rifles at something like $30+ a piece.
A nice piece of change in 1917. I think something like 3/4 million rifles were bought up by the US Gov't.
They got used as training rifles by our troops. Issued to N/G troops at home and even went to Russia with our AEF Troops in the 1919 Red&White Russian Civil War,,a little talked about excursion of the time.
Probably the nicest quality of the M/N's made, these and the Remingtons.
It had a US Magazine Rifle cal 7.62 Model 1916 designation for the very short time it was in our Arsenals after WW1. Surplused by the early 20's.

[Cyrano]

Guide Lamp Division of General Motors made these. Perhaps not too high a quality product.

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

There were problems in the lack of interchangeability between the Eddystone, Remington and Winchester manufactured M1917s. As noted quality control and rigid adherence to specifications was much more rigid in WWII.

[wood714]

[Rustyt1953]

While just shy of 9 years old this thread gives us the opportunity to remember Cyrano and shouldazagged.

[LVSteve]

Originally Posted by 2152hq

US Gov't 'helped' the large Westinghouse Corp secure the facilitys (and probably the contract).
Very confusing set of circumstances surrounding the set up of the factory including payments from England to provide machinery.

This was an attempt to launder the deal so it appeared the Russians got the guns from the UK, not neutral America. I have a Finnish Mosin Model 91 based on a NEW receiver and bolt. It was rebarreled in 1944 IIRC. The rear part of the spliced stock still has a roundel that says "English Order" in Russian.

Is nine years a new record for a zombie thread?

[bmcgilvray]

It may be a zombie thread, but I'm still here!

[Puller]

Originally Posted by G-Mac

I always liked the Mattel M-16.....

And as elusive as a unicorn.

**********

I noticed several absent comrades and banned members in this old thread.

[Golddollar]

Originally Posted by 2152hq

New England Westinghouse Company,, a somewhat quickly formed sub-company of the Westinghouse Electric Corp, went into business in 1915 making Mosin-Nagant rifles for Russia (Czar).

I had a chance to buy one of these at the local auction house. It was one that actually was delivered to Russia. It had Imperial Russia and/or Communist marks on it, and it was captured by the Finns. I didn't think there was anyone else in the area who looked for Finnish capture pieces but boy was I wrong. I got blown away in the bidding before I got my mouth open!

[eveled]

It wasn’t just the guns. I remember digging through a box of magazine pouches and being amazed at all the different manufacturers markings. I remember one was a awning company.

[VictorLouis]

Wasn't this guy's business a manufacturer of mundane household items, like shower curtain rods?

[quikdraw67]

Yes, Hydra-Matic Division of General Motors made the M16A1 during Vietnam.

It is one of the rarest of the M16A1 rifles that are available for legal civilian ownership.

I had the privilege to hold and a shoot a H&R M16A1 US Property Marked rifle (I'm a civilian).

I do have an Underwood M1 Carbine.

My M1 Garand is Winchester, the 03A3 is Remington.

[sigp220.45]

Originally Posted by Rustyt1953

While just shy of 9 years old this thread gives us the opportunity to remember Cyrano and shouldazagged.

I wonder how Shasta the imaginary cat is?

[Rustyt1953]

Originally Posted by sigp220.45

I wonder how Shasta the imaginary cat is?

Sabrina took her in.