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  #51  
Old 10-06-2013, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by rwsmith View Post
Use the right foot for the gas and the brake. Left foot either operates clutch or does nothing. My earlier cars has clutches to it makes sense to me still.

If you use two feet in an emergency stop you will probably jam the gas and the brake to the floor.
No, if you have been doing it awhile, your "muscle memory" lifts your right foot off the gas at the same time your left foot stabs the brake.
Nobody can stop faster with the right foot.
Nobody.
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  #52  
Old 10-06-2013, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ralph7 View Post
No, if you have been doing it awhile, your "muscle memory" lifts your right foot off the gas at the same time your left foot stabs the brake.
Nobody can stop faster with the right foot.
Nobody.
Horse-hockey.

I'm not going to stand and say that "RFB" is superior to "LFB", just as I won't say that "X" cartridge is definitely superior to "Y" cartridge, and anyone that says otherwise is an idiot. I'm always suspicious of folks who are always entirely right, and anyone who disagrees with them is always entirely wrong.

Here's what one pro race driver (Nico Rondet) has to say about LFB:

Quote:
Why is Right Foot Braking better?

• First, there is a ballistic effect when you are in a rush to get to that brake pedal… optimal transition times are between 3 and 5 tenth of a second, from full throttle to peak brake pressure. Any faster and you will outrun the load transfer which in Formula cars is the time it takes to compress the front tires. In other cars, you have to factor in the time it takes to compress the suspension as well. There lies the first biggest caveat of Left Foot Braking… it is easy to not only make that too short, but actually to overlap the pedals… and getting front lock-up before the load is there, as your other foot on the throttle is keeping the load back! Once those front wheels are locked… they will stay locked unless you let go… of the brakes.

• Now let’s speak of the braking efficiency itself. The faster you go, the more kinetic energy you have, the more load will you be able to transfer to the front tire as they, we all know do most of the braking. So the more braking power you might have without getting lock up. As speed goes down… so does the kinetic energy and your potential load transfer… and your front tire grip. That’s why you need to get on the brakes right away, and then have a degressive trend throughout the braking zone. This is true to any vehicle… and even more important when you are speaking of aero cars. When Left Foot braking, it is extremely hard not to increase that pressure, as you have nothing to support yourself… The belts can be as tight as you can and the seat molded onto you (and that’s the best scenario as in an open wheel car). It is never enough. When you start getting more than 2-3 Gs in deceleration, it is almost impossible to not add pressure… but that’s when you need to be coming away from that pedal! Furthermore, I have encountered drivers getting problems with their automated transmissions… (Think paddle shift systems) because of the big Gs and nowhere to go, their RIGHT foot was actually applying Throttle within the braking zone… stopping the transmission from downshifting… if your foot is on the brake pedal… it is not going to be pushing on the gas without you knowing.

• Now let’s say that conscious of the overlap, the left foot braker slows down his footwork … chances are he then will ease, rather than stab that brake pedal… not achieving peak pressure soon enough.

• Having your Left Foot on the Rest Pedal, bracing yourself is the best way to stop you from adding more pressure when you don’t want it… Even very tight submarine belts (ouch) are never as good.

• That left foot on the rest pedal is also your only mobile contact point in the car. The steering wheel moves right? And your seat as well. Just like you learn how to balance yourself on a single foot, that single solid contact point gives you much better feel than your… humm glutes… although people love to say that they feel the car through their pants, I think that they feel much more through their feet, and of course your inner ear for balance.
The article (as well as a counter-point by Jeff Westphal) can be found here: The Driver's Seat- Right-foot vs. Left-foot braking | Formula 1 Blog

Tim
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  #53  
Old 10-06-2013, 03:45 PM
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@HITTMAN77 Two footed drivers are a car mechanics dream. You can follow those folks all over town or for miles and miles down the highway with their brake lights on grinding away at those pads.

Not really. Left foot braking does not mean the lt foot is always on the brake pedal.
I am a lt foot breaker and rarely need brakes. I drive over 50,000 miles a year and rarely see people driving with the brake lamps lit up.

I believe saying two foot drivers are a mechanics dream is akin to saying highway signs are shot up by hunters, etc.

Last edited by meaneyedcatz; 10-06-2013 at 03:50 PM.
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  #54  
Old 10-06-2013, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by meaneyedcatz View Post
I drive over 50,000 miles a year and rarely see people driving with the brake lamps lit up.
Which reminds me of the number of cars I see in this state where no brake lights show no matter which foot they are using.
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  #55  
Old 10-06-2013, 06:56 PM
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My late Dad drove with both feet. He tried to teach me to do the same, to no avail. We argued about it a bit - he insisted that using two feet was faster. I never saw it as such. He also rode the brake a bit....

One foot - except when driving manual transmission, of course. In that event, my left foot is for clutching only.
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  #56  
Old 10-06-2013, 07:02 PM
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Funny isn't it. Some folks will argue about anything, and call other people all sorts of stuff, lump them into a crowd that doesn't exist rhen call that "proof".
I guess I ought to go and get my boss' 6K back from the school that taught me.
Executive Protection/Anti-Kidnapping | Bondurant.com

They must be a buncha dummies. I bet they weren't payin attention in drivers ed. They probly got tickets in New Jersey an everything.

Fact is, the unskilled are unsafe at any speed, left right both or neither.
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  #57  
Old 10-06-2013, 07:12 PM
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By the way...which foot was it that panic stricken people used when they say "I meant to hit the brake, and I must've stepped on the gas instead!" ?
Wasn't their left.http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7f7_1...215&comments=1
http://www.wjla.com/articles/2012/04...nds-74903.html
http://www.wivb.com/news/local/drive...plaza-building
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  #58  
Old 10-06-2013, 07:20 PM
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I had a 55 Buick the starter switch was on the floor.
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  #59  
Old 10-06-2013, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
I'm not going to stand and say that "RFB" is superior to "LFB", just as I won't say that "X" cartridge is definitely superior to "Y" cartridge, and
anyone that says otherwise is an idiot. I'm always suspicious of folks who are always entirely right, and anyone who disagrees with them is always entirely wrong.
Only an idiot would think moving the right foot off the gas and over to the brake is faster than a left foot poised to stab said brake.
I never said better for you. Works better for me.
The key word was faster.
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  #60  
Old 10-06-2013, 08:04 PM
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After my Dad & my brother got finished teaching me to drive I had the honor of being instructed by a Pa. State Trooper using my left foot on the brake but not riding it.

BW
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  #61  
Old 10-06-2013, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadAye View Post
Being a LONG TIME motorcyclist one of THEEEE things that I HATE are idiots that drive with their brake lights on all of the time or flash on now and then.
Sometimes I think it's some kind of insurance scam - You get to where you believe that they aren't going to stop just because you see bright red lights.
That's why when I'm not driving my bike I drive an F-250
Also being a long time motorcyclist one of the things that STILL upsets me is "big sister" making all the mfg's move the shifter to the left side.

Apparently our nannys think Americans are not smart enough to tell the difference between a gear shift and a brake pedal. Also I guess we are incapable of learning a shift pattern other then 1 down and the rest up with neutral between 1st &2nd.

As far as braking go's. Should we use the rear? Or the Front? Or both? Or just lay on the horn*? (clear hooter, for you old timers from Blighty.)

P.S. I just thought, if you have a genuine Lucas clear hooter it probably won't work anyway. So just delete that option.

Last edited by therevjay; 10-06-2013 at 09:02 PM. Reason: The more beer I consume, the funnier I think I am.
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  #62  
Old 10-06-2013, 09:24 PM
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Back when I drove my fire truck I always used two feet. I also used two feet to stop!






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  #63  
Old 10-06-2013, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5-Shot View Post
I am a proud graduate of two auto cross schools. Guess what? They both taught left foot braking...even with standard transmissions. It's tough to get down and the car's peddles have to be located right, but it will get you into a turn better than any other method I know of. (I don't do it on the street any more.)

Ed
Same here. I learned about using both feet in a HPD course, and used the method when I used to autox. The cool thing is that you can feather the throttle and the break and blend the two when appropriate.

It's hard to explain in a post, but it works very well once it is mastered.
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  #64  
Old 10-06-2013, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph7 View Post
Only an idiot would think moving the right foot off the gas and over to the brake is faster than a left foot poised to stab said brake.The key word was faster.
The same can be said of anyone that drives with their foot constantly poised above the brake or touching the brake. And unless you know when you will need to brake in advance, that is what you have to do to gain an advantage. And if you do have some warning you can do the same thing by coming off the gas peddle.

If I were drafting in a race and riding inches off someones bumper I might use your system, but for driving around town or highway driving it is no slower to come off the gas and hit the brake than it is to come off the floor board with your left foot and hit the brake. Also for most drivers it removes the possibility of braking causing the right foot to press on the gas peddle, or of riding the brake.
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  #65  
Old 10-07-2013, 08:47 AM
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I am a left foot braker also. I bought a 2012 Ford and if I touch the brake when I'm still accelerating the engine dies out. They told me the computer regulates the stopping and the starting. I noticed it real quick while driving in parking lots.
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  #66  
Old 10-07-2013, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph7 View Post
Only an idiot would think moving the right foot off the gas and over to the brake is faster than a left foot poised to stab said brake.
I never said better for you. Works better for me.
The key word was faster.
Perhaps my meaning was misunderstood. When I said
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullzaye
"I'm not going to stand and say that "RFB" is superior to "LFB", just as I won't say that "X" cartridge is definitely superior to "Y" cartridge, and
anyone that says otherwise is an idiot.",
I guess I should have said...
Quote:
"I won"t say that "RFB" is superior to "LFB", just as I won't say that "X" cartridge is definitely superior to "Y" cartridge...and I won't say that anyone that says otherwise is an idiot."
I apologize if I wasn't being clear enough. It was never my intention to call anyone an idiot...I was saying I would never refer to anyone as such for not agreeing with my opinion. I really am very sorry if anyone believed I was calling them names. As careful as I thought I was being, I guess I left room for misunderstanding.

However, for the record, and for clarity, you claim that,
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph7
"I never said better for you. Works better for me.
The key word was faster."
This actually contradicts your original statement,
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph7
"Nobody can stop faster with the right foot.
Nobody."
...because you emphatically state "nobody", not just you. Additionally, you contradict yourself in your first sentence, when you call me an idiot for believing that RFB is faster than LFB (which I never said). IOW, you were only saying it works better for you...but I'm an idiot for believing otherwise.

And this was the part I was saying that I had a problem with...essentially, you were stating that anyone that disagreed with you was wrong.

I'm sorry for this long explanation, and for having gotten so far off track. I hope some of you read the post about the race car driver's thoughts, and understood my meaning. Now, to hopefully avoid any more drama, I'll leave this thread.

Tim
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  #67  
Old 10-07-2013, 02:42 PM
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In countries where you have to learn how to actually DRIVE, it is understood that there are many situations where judicious use of throttle and brake simultaneously (heel and toe, as stated previously) is advantageous, Cars from those countries come with the gas and brake pedals arranged so you can cover parts of both with one foot. If you want to learn and take advantage of this technique in most American cars, you will likely need a two footed approach, as the pedals are so far apart (to keep all those safe who are busy with so many other affairs while "driving"). If you took half the drivers around here and dropped them onto something resembling an Autobahn, they would end up like armadillos on a Texas highway
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Old 10-07-2013, 02:56 PM
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One foot is correct, period. Sorry, but standardized motorcycle controls are progress. Standardization is safety. It happened in cars long, long, ago. Just cause you think some dangerous, old bike is cool is not my problem. We don't have cars with right foot pedals, or right hand drive. We all know that no civilized country drives on the left. Hmmm, that probably why old brit bikes were backward. Back in the 70s I drove a pal's Norton 750, and thought I was going to die before I could get back to his house.
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Old 10-07-2013, 03:04 PM
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I don't always drive a stick, but when I do, the left foot (of course) activates the clutch pedal. That is why I drive an automatic with only the right foot for both gas and brake. My left foot is trained only for the clutch, and I don't want to confuse it by trying to also make it work the brake on an automatic. I can hop in any stick, and my left foot does not have to be re-trained. It's get in and go. That foot knows what to do. I trained it on a '50 Chevy, a '55 Chevy, a '60 Corvair, a '58 Chevy pickup, and a '65 Vette.

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Old 10-07-2013, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hittman77 View Post
Two footed drivers are a car mechanics dream. You can follow those folks all over town or for miles and miles down the highway with their brake lights on grinding away at those pads.
I have to agree 100% with you "hittman77" when it comes to those who actually rest their foot on the brake. I see those kinds all the time and try to get them in my rearview mirror as soon as possible, especially when I'm on a motorcycle.

This is just my opinion but the right foot was always meant to control the brake and the accelerator while the left foot was meant to control the clutch. When I took my test many years ago, if the instructor saw you brake with your left foot, it was an automatic failure. All studies show that people who use their left foot for the brake are also a lot more prone to hit both in an emergency situation.
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Old 10-07-2013, 04:19 PM
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I love internet debates, and this is a good example of one. Folks using extreme examples to prove a wider point. In this case auto-cross racing, Formula 1, and Bondurant classes. Classic fringe-of-the-bell arguments and very entertaining. Another funny thing about debates like this is how quickly it gets into a right/wrong, this way/not that way, debate when the reality is that several proper answers apply. Again, highly entertaining as long as you don't get, um, wrapped around the axle about it ;-)
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  #72  
Old 10-07-2013, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by PA Reb View Post
[FONT="Verdana"].....the left foot was meant to control the clutch.
It also is for the dimmer switch on the left side of the floor.........
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Old 10-07-2013, 04:52 PM
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Two for manual (heal and toe), one for automatic 99.994% of the time. The other 0.006% of the time I use my left foot to light the break lights while the right foot pounces on the gas to get the jerk running up my butt off of it. Rather like the racer mentioned above.

I learned standard on the floor (R10) and then took my test with the stick on the column (R16). Taught my first wife manual and small car driving after she learned and passed her test on an Old 98. She learned to love it. Second wife claims she can drive a standard (did it twice in drivers ed) but why should she do so much work? I purchased a Jetta before we were married with a stick and still hear about to this day (25 years ago).

I feel so much more in control with a manual but such is life.

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Old 10-07-2013, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee in Quartzsite View Post
It also is for the dimmer switch on the left side of the floor.........
Wasn't there a lever to pump windshield wiper fluid in some cars too?
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Old 10-07-2013, 05:02 PM
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The question ought to be rephrased. It should be: "Do you brake with one or with two feet? See image below:






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  #76  
Old 10-07-2013, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillBingham2 View Post
Wasn't there a lever to pump windshield wiper fluid in some cars too?
Only windshield wiper fluid I remember back then was the stuff that fell out of the clouds...and it was free!

I do remember the starter switch on the floor between the gas pedal and the brake....and it took the left foot to operate while the right foot was pumping the gas pedal.
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Old 10-07-2013, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullzaye View Post
Perhaps my meaning was misunderstood. When I said I guess I should have said...

I apologize if I wasn't being clear enough. It was never my intention to call anyone an idiot...I was saying I would never refer to anyone as such for not agreeing with my opinion. I really am very sorry if anyone believed I was calling them names. As careful as I thought I was being, I guess I left room for misunderstanding.

However, for the record, and for clarity, you claim that, This actually contradicts your original statement, ...because you emphatically state "nobody", not just you. Additionally, you contradict yourself in your first sentence, when you call me an idiot for believing that RFB is faster than LFB (which I never said). IOW, you were only saying it works better for you...but I'm an idiot for believing otherwise.

And this was the part I was saying that I had a problem with...essentially, you were stating that anyone that disagreed with you was wrong.

I'm sorry for this long explanation, and for having gotten so far off track. I hope some of you read the post about the race car driver's thoughts, and understood my meaning. Now, to hopefully avoid any more drama, I'll leave this thread.

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Old 10-10-2013, 01:40 AM
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Only time I ever use my left foot is for a clutch, light dimmer, or
parking brake. None of the above, no left foot usage.
I have both including an ancient Ford truck with all of the above for
the left foot.
The left foot has no work to do in my automatic Toy car and gets
the day off.
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Old 10-10-2013, 06:15 AM
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Old 10-10-2013, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillBingham2 View Post
Wasn't there a lever to pump windshield wiper fluid in some cars too?
And just a reminder as I forgot about them until they were mentioned as with the foot starter switch, 49 Ford convert had it also, first car I learned to drive.

1964 Ford Falcon
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1967 I don't remember it on my fathers 67 Custom but could be my memory.
Name:  1967 Ford Windshield Washer Pump.jpg
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Porsche 365 A,B,C for you foreign car lovers.
Click image for larger version

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Ford Falcon with lever
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Fiat 850 Spider true bulb no lever
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Remember they went with the vacuum wipers that slowed down when you sped up.
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Old 10-10-2013, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by puckforbrains View Post
I'm a left foot braker
I think I saw you going down the Interstate the other day with your brake lights on.
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Old 10-11-2013, 09:58 AM
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When do we do a MT thread on using the clutch, brake, & gas pedals all at the same time? I do sometimes.
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Old 10-11-2013, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yeti View Post
When do we do a MT thread on using the clutch, brake, & gas pedals all at the same time? I do sometimes.
The operation of a standard shift car in North America is a dying art....heel/toe performance driving is in the ICU.
I have small feet and tend to own at least one standard shift car for my fun drives,I'm now on my 3'rd Volkswagen GTI,Their pedals are configured for such driving and I can still afford to own,modify and beat these little cars.
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Old 10-11-2013, 02:06 PM
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My last 8 or so cars have all be manual - but the wife has had some automatics. Sometimes have to remind my self when switching from one vehicle to the next and back again.

In an auto I will brake with my right foot to come to a stop - then put my left foot on the pedal to hold so the right foot can apply the gas and increase reaction time and all the left foot has to do is slide off the pedal.

Not sure if someone else posted but the other danger of using the left foot to brake - unless you do it all the time - and especially when transitioning from a manual to auto - is applying the brake to hard or too suddenly because your muscle memory is not there and or the sensory feedback is not as developed when performing an action that is not common.

I did just that during a test drive for my current daily driver - they didn't have any manuals on the lot so we took an auto for a drive - coming off the freeway my left foot - trained to press the clutch to the floor to coast a bit before braking - hit the brake pedal and we experienced some sudden deceleration.

Also when I drive the wife's car after driving mine - I will deliberately not rest my hand on the shift lever - so that I don't try to move the lever while driving.
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The Lounge Thread, Driving one footed or two in General Topics; Originally Posted by rwsmith Use the right foot for the gas and the brake. Left foot either operates clutch or ...
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