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Old 11-12-2013, 10:56 PM
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Default Josey Wales

Sitting around with nothing to do this afternoon I decided to watch that movie again. Hadn't seen it in quite a while. Dang, it almost blew me away! Mary and I both enjoyed the Quotable Quotes that every one likes. Especially the ones from Chief Dan George. But....something seldom mentioned is the scene between Wales and Ten Bears, with their words of life and words of death. That scene almost gave me chills. Will Sampson
was phenomenal. Listen to his voice when he says "I am Ten Bears". Wow!
I know that Unforgiven is widely hailed as Eastwoods best Western, and maybe it is. But consider which of the two movies is mostly widely spoken of on this forum. Comments?
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Old 11-12-2013, 11:06 PM
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"There is iron in your words..."

That is my favorite scene. It never gets quoted so thanks for reminding us of it.
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Old 11-12-2013, 11:09 PM
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Josey Wales is a classic IMHO... Can't tell ya how many times I've watched it.
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Old 11-12-2013, 11:09 PM
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Both are great movies. Still, as good as “The Outlaw Josey Whales” is, I have a slight preference for Unforgiven. I have both on DVD and I watch Unforgiven much more often. Until he made Unforgiven, The Outlaw Josey Whales” was my favorite Eastwood movie.

Unforgiven has the advantage of a tremendous supporting cast, as well as a great story.

Right now I am watching Hombre, another great western.

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Old 11-12-2013, 11:13 PM
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The Outlaw Josey Wales is a heck of a movie, comparing it is like Filet Mignon and a big bone in Ribeye, how can you complain about one or the other?

Chief Dan George is a riot in it, as you said Will Sampson comes off like the real thing.

I'd have to go with Unforgiven as the best for one reason, Sondra Locke ruins every scene she is in. Thankfully, he got over that one.
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Old 11-12-2013, 11:50 PM
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"It shall be life." (please excuse the political add at the end)


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Old 11-13-2013, 12:01 AM
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I'd have to go with Unforgiven as the best for one reason, Sondra Locke ruins every scene she is in. Thankfully, he got over that one.
Amen!

I really like that he always included his buddies in most of his movies (minus Sondra of course). Even in ones like "Every Which Way But Loose" which is still one my favorite Clint flicks - silly as it is.
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Old 11-13-2013, 12:02 AM
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Here are two reviews from Roger Ebert on Josey and Unforgiven. I would say they are pretty spot on. They are both great movies but for me, Unforgiven has the edge.

The Outlaw Josey Wales Movie Review (1976) | Roger Ebert

Unforgiven Movie Review & Film Summary (1992) | Roger Ebert
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Old 11-13-2013, 12:03 AM
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I have always thought that Will Sampson's Performance in this movie was greatly under appreciated. He was magnificent as Ten Bears. For the brief screen time he had I think he was a terrific addition to the story.

He was also outstanding in One Flew Over the Kookoo's nest with Jack Nicholson. He just seems to have an air of intensity or "presence" about him.

More's the pity he wasn't around for Lonesome Dove. He would have been the best actor to play the part of Blue Duck.
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Old 11-13-2013, 12:13 AM
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Unforgiven may be the better "film", but Josey Wales is one of the most watchable and re-watchable movies ever.
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Old 11-13-2013, 12:48 AM
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Perfect opportunity to add:

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Old 11-13-2013, 12:52 AM
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Ill be hated for this but, im not a fan of Unforgiven. Why? I dunno--just never clicked with me. Josey Wales was much better Sondra Locke notwithstanding. Besides--Josey had the coolest of Pistols including a PAIR of Walkers.
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Old 11-13-2013, 01:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
Here are two reviews from Roger Ebert on Josey and Unforgiven. I would say they are pretty spot on. They are both great movies but for me, Unforgiven has the edge.

The Outlaw Josey Wales Movie Review (1976) | Roger Ebert

Unforgiven Movie Review & Film Summary (1992) | Roger
Ebert
Thanks Sip, well worth reading.
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Old 11-13-2013, 02:26 AM
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Default Not a Sondra Locke fan.....

But the part she played in Josey Wales was as good a fit for her as you could get. She has the ability to ruin a movie but not Josey Wales.
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Old 11-13-2013, 02:30 AM
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But the part she played in Josey Wales was as good a fit for her as you could get. She has the ability to ruin a movie but not Josey Wales.
I didnt let her ruin it for me with: Every Which Way But Loose and Any Which Way You Can, either.
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Old 11-13-2013, 03:27 AM
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Josey had the coolest of Pistols including a PAIR of Walkers.
At their best when empty. Click. Click. Click. Click. Click. Click. Click. Click. Click. Click. Click. Click.
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Old 11-13-2013, 04:00 AM
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I still watch Josey Wales every time it comes on TV.
One of my favorites of all time.
I reckon so........Spit.....

Chuck
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Old 11-13-2013, 08:26 AM
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The book(s) Josey Wales was taken from are classic. Forrest Carter died young, after only writing 4. As far as Eastwood "Unforgiven" being better, I would hope he learned something in the one and a half decades in between it and Josey Wales. ( I try to learn at least one thing a year.) The fact remains, The Outlaw Josey Wales" will be a classic even after "Film" is a historical footnote. Ivan
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Old 11-13-2013, 08:48 AM
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I think Unforgiven is my favorite of the two, though The Outlaw Josey Wales is definitely up there. It's just so quotable and has a lot of good laughs.
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:02 AM
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I could never see the big fuss about Unforgiven or High Noon. I watched High Noon again recently and my impression, just like Unforgiven, is you have two brilliant performances in the lead roles but in halfway decent yet run of the mill films. Unforgiven was a revelation for many critics because they felt Eastwood was denouncing all the really great violence from his older westerns. The Man With No Name could shoot five guys before breakfast for insulting his mule, but Will Munny showed death wasn't entertaining in real life.

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Old 11-13-2013, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyatt Burp View Post
I could never see the big fuss about Unforgiven or High Noon. I watched High Noon again recently and my impression, just like Unforgiven, is you have two brilliant performances in the lead roles but in halfway decent yet run of the mill films. Unforgiven was a revelation for many critics because they felt Eastwood was denouncing all the really great violence from his older westerns. The Man With No Name could shoot five guys before breakfast for insulting his mule, but Will Penny showed death wasn't entertaining in real life.
Disagree strongly about High Noon, but right there with you regarding Unforgiven. While I admire Eastwood, Unforgiven and Gran Torino were a white flag to the Hollywood powers that be. We won't even mention Bridges of Madison County, (pardon me while I yak). Here's a poll subject. Who was the better actor, Sondra Locke or Clyde the Orangutan?
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Old 11-13-2013, 11:08 AM
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High Noon was a plumb stupid movie.

Now, I wasn't upset with Will running around trying to get people to help him, like John Wayne supposedly was. What I was upset with was that nobody would.

"Oh no, Marshall. There's only fifty armed men in this town. There's four of them killers, so we'll just have to hide under the bed and let you face them by yourself. That's what you're paid for, ain't it?"

I can see that happening now. I could see that happening back East, to the namby-pambies that depended on the police.

But people that had the guts to pack up and go out west, and face Indians, blizzards, drought and grasshoppers? No. I ain't buying it that they are all a buncha lily-livered cowards.

The only thing about that movie that was any good at all was the end. Grace Kelly, a Quaker girl, who had been raised that violence was bad and guns were evil, picked up a pistol and shot the bad guy in the back to protect her husband.

THAT was good. Because, when it comes right down to it, no matter what else others think you should do, no matter what else you believe you SHOULD do, you protect your family.
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Old 11-13-2013, 11:35 AM
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Grace Kelly could just sit in a chair and smile and it would make for good entertainment.
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Old 11-13-2013, 11:40 AM
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Grace Kelly could just sit in a chair and smile and it would make for good entertainment.
Especially if you were in the chair first.
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Old 11-13-2013, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Wyatt Burp View Post
I could never see the big fuss about Unforgiven or High Noon. I watched High Noon again recently and my impression, just like Unforgiven, is you have two brilliant performances in the lead roles but in halfway decent yet run of the mill films. Unforgiven was a revelation for many critics because they felt Eastwood was denouncing all the really great violence from his older westerns. The Man With No Name could shoot five guys before breakfast for insulting his mule, but Will Penny showed death wasn't entertaining in real life.
On: High Noon, first time I saw it--I hated it. Ive only seen it a hand-full of times and have the DvD, and im liking it but--I think its got too high a rating just like "Shane" has.
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Old 11-13-2013, 12:32 PM
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Disagree strongly about High Noon, but right there with you regarding Unforgiven. While I admire Eastwood, Unforgiven and Gran Torino were a white flag to the Hollywood powers that be. We won't even mention Bridges of Madison County, (pardon me while I yak). Here's a poll subject. Who was the better actor, Sondra Locke or Clyde the Orangutan?
Clyde hands down. I never saw "Bridges" so cant say anything against it but, ill most likely will never watch it like ill never watch the True Grit remake.
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Old 11-13-2013, 12:35 PM
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High Noon was a plumb stupid movie.

Now, I wasn't upset with Will running around trying to get people to help him, like John Wayne supposedly was. What I was upset with was that nobody would.

"Oh no, Marshall. There's only fifty armed men in this town. There's four of them killers, so we'll just have to hide under the bed and let you face them by yourself. That's what you're paid for, ain't it?"

I can see that happening now. I could see that happening back East, to the namby-pambies that depended on the police.

But people that had the guts to pack up and go out west, and face Indians, blizzards, drought and grasshoppers? No. I ain't buying it that they are all a buncha lily-livered cowards.

The only thing about that movie that was any good at all was the end. Grace Kelly, a Quaker girl, who had been raised that violence was bad and guns were evil, picked up a pistol and shot the bad guy in the back to protect her husband.

THAT was good. Because, when it comes right down to it, no matter what else others think you should do, no matter what else you believe you SHOULD do, you protect your family.
The reason John Wayne didnt care for High Noon was because of the negative way that Law Enforcement types was being portrayed. Years later he saw it again and had actually liked the movie watching with a different take on the story.
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Old 11-13-2013, 12:43 PM
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Disagree strongly about High Noon, but right there with you regarding Unforgiven. While I admire Eastwood, Unforgiven and Gran Torino were a white flag to the Hollywood powers that be. We won't even mention Bridges of Madison County, (pardon me while I yak). Here's a poll subject. Who was the better actor, Sondra Locke or Clyde the Orangutan?
Clyde was the much better actor. His multi layered performances in those two films rivaled the complexities of Peter O'Toole's wonderful performance in Lawrence Of Arabia. and Clyde was much better looking than Sondra Locke.
'Bridges..." was a touching love story of a married farm wife jumping in the sack with a roving photographer who happened to look a lot like Clint Eastwood, while her husband and kids were off the county fair with their prize hog.
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Old 11-13-2013, 12:45 PM
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I heard that the reason Duke didn't like High Noon was 'cause the sheriff, instead of being "strong and silent" and handling it, was running around hither and yon looking for help. That's why (again, so I heard) that Duke made Rio Bravo. To show the way it oughta be - that not only was the sheriff not LOOKING for help, but whenever it was offered, he turned it down. "I don't want to be responsible for you cowboys and storekeepers getting killed. Leave it to the PROFESSIONAL LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS."
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Old 11-13-2013, 12:57 PM
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High Noon was a plumb stupid movie.

Now, I wasn't upset with Will running around trying to get people to help him, like John Wayne supposedly was. What I was upset with was that nobody would.

"Oh no, Marshall. There's only fifty armed men in this town. There's four of them killers, so we'll just have to hide under the bed and let you face them by yourself. That's what you're paid for, ain't it?"

I can see that happening now. I could see that happening back East, to the namby-pambies that depended on the police.

But people that had the guts to pack up and go out west, and face Indians, blizzards, drought and grasshoppers? No. I ain't buying it that they are all a buncha lily-livered cowards.

The only thing about that movie that was any good at all was the end. Grace Kelly, a Quaker girl, who had been raised that violence was bad and guns were evil, picked up a pistol and shot the bad guy in the back to protect her husband.

THAT was good. Because, when it comes right down to it, no matter what else others think you should do, no matter what else you believe you SHOULD do, you protect your family.
You are dead on. How did this guy get elected Marshall without at least a few guys with guts and guns ready to back him up voted for him. Just get a few guys to hide with shotguns and turn the gang into roast beef by ambush all at once. Will Kane only had two sixguns and no cartridge loops on his gunbelt. and he warned the gang before he fired first. When Matt Dillon would leave town, one bad guy always seemed to be able to take over the whole town.
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Old 11-13-2013, 01:47 PM
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According to Louis L'Amour there probably never was a case where a small band of outlaws treed a town. Consider that there was probably a gun within arm's reach of every able bodied man in town and they were pretty much all civil war veterans.

Also the Code of the West pretty much only said you didn't kill a man who was unarmed or who didn't know you were after him. If a man had a fighting beef with someone he would tell him to "go heel yourself". After that the folks pretty much considered you were warned. If you were told that, you could arm yourself with a 12 gauge and if you were lucky enough to get a shot at the fellow's back that was "fair game".

Stand up gunfights in the street were rare. Sometimes they were employed by professionals to "prove" it was a fair fight.
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Old 11-13-2013, 02:16 PM
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Northfield Minnesota. The James and Younger Gangs came to town and the locals came out and shot 'em to doll rags.

In Sixguns, Elmer tells about this crook from Chicago that came to town and robbed the bank. Storekeeper saw him come out of the bank with the money and a gun in his hand, and let fly with a rifle. Robber ducked and ran and took cover in the hotel. The whole town showed up outside the hotel and shot it, and the robber, plumb fulla holes. Then they throwed the bleeding Chi-badman on an east-bound for Illinois, and went back to what they had been doing when the shooting started.
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Old 11-13-2013, 02:44 PM
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You have to understand that banks deposits weren't insured then as they are now. Stealing from a bank was stealing from the town. Don't overlook the shootout in Coffeyville, KS when the Daltons were shot to doll rags

I just ordered Josey Wales on fleabay for $3.58 brand new, free shipping, and a vendor with 100% feedback.
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Old 11-13-2013, 02:52 PM
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The book Josey Wales is adapted from, as mentioned above, is "Gone to Texas" by Forrest Carter. The front cover flap has a word or two from Eastwood, as to his admiration for the book, so much so he states;"In fact, I liked the entire book so much that I have bought it for my next starring vehicle" -Clint Eastwood.

I casually searched our few used book stores for several years in order to read the book, which, as most of you would agree, typically will flesh out or add to a movie... In this case, whoever did the adaptation did better than the book, and I like books above movies.
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Old 11-13-2013, 02:57 PM
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One of my Grandfathers uncles was on a Coffeyville Kansas rooftop in 1892 with his neighbors when the Daltons tried to rob both banks. He had a 56 Spencer with him on the rooftop, which an uncle still has, along with the letter home telling of the event. He had served in an Illinois Calvary Troop during the Civil War and apparently had no qualms about shooting from cover when attacked. The family story is that he had brought the Spencer home from the war but in all reality he could have bought it from Bannermans for all we know. It’s easy for “This rifle is just LIKE the rifle I carried in the War.” to become “This IS the rifle I carried in the War.” Still in the family is the Spencer and a 44 Remington percussion revolver that belonged to him. Based on the one photograph I’ve seen he also had a Springfield that probably was converted into a shotgun as well. Nothing high tech but sufficient for a homesteading farmers needs.
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Old 11-13-2013, 03:48 PM
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I could never see the big fuss about Unforgiven or High Noon. I watched High Noon again recently and my impression, just like Unforgiven, is you have two brilliant performances in the lead roles but in halfway decent yet run of the mill films. Unforgiven was a revelation for many critics because they felt Eastwood was denouncing all the really great violence from his older westerns. The Man With No Name could shoot five guys before breakfast for insulting his mule, but Will Penny showed death wasn't entertaining in real life.
Will Penny is from a different movie, starring Charleton Heston, in a 1968 movie of the same name (Will Penny). Will Munny was played by Clint Eastwood in Unforgiven.
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Old 11-13-2013, 04:41 PM
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The book Josey Wales is adapted from, as mentioned above, is "Gone to Texas" by Forrest Carter. The front cover flap has a word or two from Eastwood, as to his admiration for the book, so much so he states;"In fact, I liked the entire book so much that I have bought it for my next starring vehicle" -Clint Eastwood.

I casually searched our few used book stores for several years in order to read the book, which, as most of you would agree, typically will flesh out or add to a movie... In this case, whoever did the adaptation did better than the book, and I

like books above movies.
Thanks for trying to keep the thread from drifting!
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Old 11-13-2013, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Sondra Locke ruins every scene she is in.
Sondra Locke ruins every MOVIE she is in.

Grace Kelly on the other hand........



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Old 11-13-2013, 05:20 PM
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Yes I agree. But was she ever in a movie with Clint Eastwood?
What a Beauty by the way.
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Old 11-13-2013, 05:24 PM
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Sondra Locke ruins every MOVIE she is in.

Grace Kelly on the other hand........



One of the great beauties of all time......and that's still an understatement.
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Old 11-13-2013, 05:28 PM
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Will Penny is from a different movie, starring Charleton Heston, in a 1968 movie of the same name (Will Penny). Will Munny was played by Clint Eastwood in Unforgiven.
Thanks. I subliminally switched another great lead character from a movie that was actually great, with another great role that was in a so-so movie. I loved that movie Will Penny. My dad saw a "making of Will Penny" docu once and told me Heston picked a Schofield to carry. I should look for that.
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Old 11-13-2013, 08:17 PM
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Josey: "When I get to likin' someone, they ain't around long."

Lone Watie: "When you get to dislikin' someone, they ain't around long either."
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Old 11-13-2013, 11:32 PM
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I heard that the reason Duke didn't like High Noon was 'cause the sheriff, instead of being "strong and silent" and handling it, was running around hither and yon looking for help. That's why (again, so I heard) that Duke made Rio Bravo. To show the way it oughta be - that not only was the sheriff not LOOKING for help, but whenever it was offered, he turned it down. "I don't want to be responsible for you cowboys and storekeepers getting killed. Leave it to the PROFESSIONAL LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS."
Nope.

Duke didnt make Rio Bravo as a counter-measure to High Noon. It was a project he long wanted to do and in fact, his Production company (Batjac) was supposed to be used to make the money w/ the movie to help him get The Alamo made. Duke used his own money to get that done.

Rio Bravo was actually made in order to get more younger viewers which is why Ricky Nelson was in the movie. That helped get Duke "in" w/ more younger crowds who became big fans of his. Id say that was a brilliant marketing strategy he used.
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Old 11-14-2013, 10:02 AM
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Josey Wales is one of my personal all time favorites. I especially like the "Missouri boat ride" scene!
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Old 11-14-2013, 12:06 PM
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"I rid with him. No complaints".

When saying words while burying Tim Bottoms (the kid)
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Old 11-14-2013, 01:19 PM
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Jose Wales is one of the most re-watchable movies in history. I never get tired of it and neither does my wife.

The Ten Bears scene is one of the best "Indian" to White Man encounters ever filmed. Shows the high honor and intellect of the Native American Chiefs.

I do agree that Sandra Locke is a really terrible actress and ruins any scene she puts her pasty white face into. Glad Clint has better taste in scripts than women.
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Old 11-14-2013, 02:54 PM
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I do agree that Sandra Locke is a really terrible actress and ruins any scene she puts her pasty white face into. Glad Clint has better taste in scripts than women.
Betcha Clint double-bagged* her while he was "taming her strange"!!

(*In case one bag fell off)
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Old 11-14-2013, 03:01 PM
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Betcha Clint double-bagged* her while he was "taming her strange"!!

(*In case one bag fell off)
Geeze guys. I am no fan of Sandra Locke either, but you guys are talking about her like she is Whoopie Goldberg or something. Give Sandra a break. LOL
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Old 11-14-2013, 05:06 PM
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Some people just have the "pile-on" attitude.

"I won't say something bad about X, but if someone else says something bad about X, I'll say something too, and try to say something worse than the first guy".

Personally, while I think she is neither the world's greatest actress nor the world's most beautiful woman, I also don't think she's the world's worst or the world's ugliest.
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Old 11-14-2013, 06:42 PM
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Anyway, I think Josey could outdo Will in a gunfight any day.
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