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Old 12-23-2013, 01:02 PM
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Default AK 47 designer is dead

Can't say his invention was not a major influence on the firearms and military worlds. If he'd designed the 47 in this country I wonder how far it would have gotten?Kalashnikov assault rifle designer is dead at 94
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Old 12-23-2013, 01:55 PM
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Amazing man. In many other countries, with good legal representation he would have become immensely rich. Instead he got a modest, comfortable life, a gold star, and immense personal satisfaction at having developed one of the most historically significant (and efficient) weapons ever built.
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Old 12-23-2013, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by RonJ View Post
Can't say his invention was not a major influence on the firearms and military worlds. If he'd designed the 47 in this country I wonder how far it would have gotten?Kalashnikov assault rifle designer is dead at 94
His invention would not have gotten far here, too simple to manufacture so not enough room for profit. It would not have ever been adopted by the US military.
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Old 12-23-2013, 02:06 PM
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Default Kalashnikov dies at 94

Renowned inventor of AK-47 rifle Mikhail Kalashnikov dies at 94!

He made it to a ripe old age. He has a name and legacy that will not be forgotten for a long time!
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Old 12-23-2013, 02:08 PM
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A short Biography aired a couple of years ago about this remarkable man. In developing his rifle, one of his principle goals was to have the gun operate no matter how poorly it was treated. Gunk, frozen mud, ice, and snow should not compromise the mechanics of the gun. With some exceptions, his Kalashnikov 1947 rifle passed every test.
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Old 12-23-2013, 02:19 PM
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I always respect a person who does his best to defend his country.
His name sake guns are killing one of us somewhere right now.
That is the part of his legacy that I don't like.
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Old 12-23-2013, 03:16 PM
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Kalashniklov is dead at 94. A design legend.
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Old 12-23-2013, 03:17 PM
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Indeed.
f.t.
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Old 12-23-2013, 03:18 PM
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Kalashniklov is dead at 94. A design legend.
BTW It is estimated that there are 100 million AK-47s in the world.
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Old 12-23-2013, 03:42 PM
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Thread merger?
Kalashnikov dies at 94
http://smith-wessonforum.com/lounge/...lashnikov.html
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Old 12-23-2013, 03:44 PM
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So we heard.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/lounge/...#post137609420
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Old 12-23-2013, 03:47 PM
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Old news...
http://smith-wessonforum.com/lounge/...#post137609420
Kalashnikov dies at 94
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Old 12-23-2013, 03:52 PM
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I'm gonna go home, lay out my AKs have a few shots and hug each one of them!

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Old 12-23-2013, 04:52 PM
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Funny how both him and John Moses made such a impact on the gun world and neither had an education.
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Old 12-23-2013, 04:59 PM
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The AK is much like the iPhone. Invented by 2 great men.

Except in 60 years, no one will remember who Steve Jobs was.
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Old 12-23-2013, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by RonJ View Post
Can't say his invention was not a major influence on the firearms and military worlds. If he'd designed the 47 in this country I wonder how far it would have gotten?Kalashnikov assault rifle designer is dead at 94
I wish him to rest in peace. However, about 2-3 years ago, he finally admitting the AK 47, was copied from the German MP 43/STG 44--like many had always though was the case.
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Old 12-23-2013, 05:22 PM
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Somehow I thought this guy was going to keep going no matter what...
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Old 12-23-2013, 05:32 PM
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I wish him to rest in peace. However, about 2-3 years ago, he finally admitting the AK 47, was copied from the German MP 43/STG 44--like many had always though was the case.
Yep and then he recanted and he was also on mean *** when he wasn't in the mood to play the Soviet Hero. A lot of what he said in later years were ramblings of an old man. He was also bitter that he never made money on his design like Stoner did

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Old 12-23-2013, 05:33 PM
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Funny how both him and John Moses made such a impact on the gun world and neither had an education.
Neither had a "formal" education. Can't make something from nothing unless you know how. These guys learned it somewhere. Joe
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Old 12-23-2013, 05:38 PM
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I wish him to rest in peace. However, about 2-3 years ago, he finally admitting the AK 47, was copied from the German MP 43/STG 44--like many had always though was the case.
The German STG was the worlds first true assault rifle. So i guess any assault weapon designed afterwards is pretty much copied off of it.

Difference being the AK wasnt worthy of its designer until it was tested through hell and high water. If todays engineers took that much effort into building a design. The AR might actually stand a "reliable" chance.
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Old 12-23-2013, 05:57 PM
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Yep and then he recanted and he was also on mean *** when he wasn't in the mood to play the Soviet Hero. A lot of what he said in later years were ramblings of an old man. He was also bitter that he never made money on his design like Stoner did

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He said that admission about 3-4 years ago to an Editor/Writer who is employed by Shotgun News and who spent 2 days with him when he turned 90. If you know anything about the Soviet era? you will easily see that none made money off their inventions because Stalin saw to it that any profits went to "Mother" simply because items were invented on "Mother's soil" and also Stalin was a Meglomaniac and hated anyone who could over-shadow anything he actually did or took all credit for. Look at what he did to his "right hand man" Beria.

Id like you to please show me proof he recanted his admission of aping the excellent STG--for the AK.

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Old 12-23-2013, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty357 View Post
The German STG was the worlds first true assault rifle. So i guess any assault weapon designed afterwards is pretty much copied off of it.

Difference being the AK wasnt worthy of its designer until it was tested through hell and high water. If todays engineers took that much effort into building a design. The AR might actually stand a "reliable" chance.
Ive read the only bad mark against the STG comes from it being a complicated weapon and not simplified like the AK.
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Old 12-23-2013, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty357 View Post
The German STG was the worlds first true assault rifle. So i guess any assault weapon designed afterwards is pretty much copied off of it.

Difference being the AK wasnt worthy of its designer until it was tested through hell and high water. If todays engineers took that much effort into building a design. The AR might actually stand a "reliable" chance.
There may be some influence from the German STG and he may have stolen some concepts, but I assure you no respectable German would have designed something so inelegant, and so unpolished as the AK-47.

It is relatively inexpensive and highly effective, so has its own kind of elegance I suppose, but it does not have any of the slick professional polish that I would expect from a German designer. The AK-47 is rough, with tolerances that are far from tight, and inexpensive to make. It lacks German precision from top to bottom.

That is part of its appeal however. That lack of tolerance, means it is not easy to jam with dirt or heavy use. Those rough edges and stamped parts make it easy to produce in quantity. And there is no doubt that it worked and worked well for what it is.

While I like the 7.62 x 39 round, I donít care for AK-47 rifles. I much prefer my Mini-30 for shooting that round, and while the Mini-30 does not sport German quality designing either, it is a lot closer than the AK-47.

If I could get a AR-15 for the 7.62 x 39 round that was truly reliable and with affordable magazines, that would be my choice of weapons. As it is, I now prefer the AR-15 for its ease of use, easy changing magazines, and overall design, if not for its ammo.

I know you can get AR-15ís that fire the 7.62 x 39 round, but the last time I checked on them there were too many problems with that system. Besides I am now set with AR-15ís and ammo. That will have to continue to be my SHTF rifle.
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Old 12-23-2013, 06:16 PM
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Here we are nearly 60 years after the design of the AK. And many will say, on the field of battle. It still has a fighting chance, even against the modern more advanced rifles of todays engineers.

IMO, that says a lot for a 60 year old design.

Look how many designs the Americans went through before they actually made something that could stand up to the AK. It wasnt until the M16 in 1963, that we had something that would work well against it. Keep in mind this is at the point where the AK47 is now 16 years old. IMO, the AK was a weapon designed well ahead of its time.

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Old 12-23-2013, 06:24 PM
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Here we are nearly 60 years after the design of the AK....

....Look how many designs the Americans went through before they actually made something that could stand up to the AK. It wasnt until the M16 in 1963, that we had something that would work well against it. .
Eventually.

and even then some of us felt the L1A1 was the next best thing....
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Old 12-23-2013, 06:30 PM
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Eventually.
And it only took the Russians one design to make something that would stand up to the German STG.

Its a good thing the Russians werent relying on the Americans because 1963 was a long ways away from 1942.

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Old 12-23-2013, 06:33 PM
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There may be some influence from the German STG and he may have stolen some concepts, but I assure you no respectable German would have designed something so inelegant, and so unpolished as the AK-47.

It is relatively inexpensive and highly effective, so has its own kind of elegance I suppose, but it does not have any of the slick professional polish that I would expect from a German designer. The AK-47 is rough, with tolerances that are far from tight, and inexpensive to make. It lacks German precision from top to bottom.

That is part of its appeal however. That lack of tolerance, means it is not easy to jam with dirt or heavy use. Those rough edges and stamped parts make it easy to produce in quantity. And there is no doubt that it worked and worked well for what it is.

While I like the 7.62 x 39 round, I donít care for AK-47 rifles. I much prefer my Mini-30 for shooting that round, and while the Mini-30 does not sport German quality designing either, it is a lot closer than the AK-47.

If I could get a AR-15 for the 7.62 x 39 round that was truly reliable and with affordable magazines, that would be my choice of weapons. As it is, I now prefer the AR-15 for its ease of use, easy changing magazines, and overall design, if not for its ammo.

I know you can get AR-15ís that fire the 7.62 x 39 round, but the last time I checked on them there were too many problems with that system. Besides I am now set with AR-15ís and ammo. That will have to continue to be my SHTF rifle.
That's the thing. A mini 30 is more refined yet is about as accurate as an AK. Sometimes refinements arnt needed or aren't needed in all areas. On a bad day with Wolf ammo I still get good battlefield accuracy.

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Old 12-23-2013, 06:36 PM
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I'd guess that the AK47 has taken more lives than any other invention in human history. That makes it significant and grotesque at the same time.

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Old 12-23-2013, 06:41 PM
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That's the thing. A mini 30 is more refined yet is about as accurate as an AK. Sometimes refinements arnt needed or aren't needed in all areas. On a bad day with Wolf ammo I still get good battlefield accuracy.

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And just imagine how much of that cheap ammo we have laying around this country.

You'll be shooting the AK cheaper for a lot longer than any one who shoots the AR chambered in 5.56. And u dont even have to reload the 7.62 to shoot it cheap.
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Old 12-23-2013, 06:44 PM
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Mark Krebs and Jim Fuller are doing some interesting things with Kalashnikov rifles.

I've gone the AR route as a recreational shooter, and have settled on the AK for reliability and cost effectiveness.
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Old 12-23-2013, 06:54 PM
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Mark Krebs and Jim Fuller are doing some interesting things with Kalashnikov rifles.

I've gone the AR route as a recreational shooter, and have settled on the AK for reliability and cost effectiveness.
Have you seen the Krebs 6.5 Grendel AK? My buddy has the only prototype. Under 2 moa at 550 yards

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Old 12-23-2013, 06:59 PM
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The Third world wouldn't be what it is today without the AK-47.
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Old 12-23-2013, 07:26 PM
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The Third world wouldn't be what it is today without the AK-47.
Claro que sŪ!



They call it "el cuerno de oro".
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Old 12-23-2013, 07:27 PM
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Ive read the only bad mark against the STG comes from it being a complicated weapon and not simplified like the AK.
Exactly, just like Henry Ford didn't invent the automobile. M. K. didn't invent the "assault rifle". They both took a existing invention and made it work dependably and able to be produced at a reasonable cost.

The problem with the STG 43/44 was (like all German mechanical items) is it was way more complex then it needed to be.
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Old 12-23-2013, 08:17 PM
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Comparing Kalashniklov to Browning is like comparing a one tune wonder to the Beetles.
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Old 12-23-2013, 08:18 PM
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Russia's John M. Browning. A brilliant engineer and mechanical designer. Sir, I salute you.

Engineering excellence and brilliance of design know no national or political borders. Quality and reliability are all. The AK-47 had it.
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Old 12-23-2013, 09:45 PM
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I'd guess that the AK47 has taken more lives than any other invention in human history. That makes it significant and grotesque at the same time.

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Look up "automobile" if you want to see a real killer.
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Old 12-23-2013, 10:05 PM
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Comparing Kalashniklov to Browning is like comparing a one tune wonder to the Beetles.
While the RPK and PKM series machine guns are similar in concept to the AK, neither are identical. I think calling Kalashnikov a one trick pony is a little harsh.

Marc Krebs and Arsenal here in Las Vegas have proved how sound the basic is and that it is amenable to improvement. The Romanians even make the PSL variant in the full house 7.62x54R. Not all firearm designs are as forgiving. See M4 carbine and the attempts to put 7.62x39 in the AR15 platform.
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Old 12-23-2013, 10:35 PM
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I was never interested in owning an ak. Then I purchased the brand new Russian izmash saigas and the rest is history. I never shot any semi auto that pops out the 223 & 308 rounds faster than my saiga. Saigas rock.
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Old 12-23-2013, 10:37 PM
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His invention would not have gotten far here, too simple to manufacture so not enough room for profit. It would not have ever been adopted by the US military.
True. It's the poor man's AR. And there are a LOT of poor people in the world.
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Old 12-23-2013, 10:39 PM
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I saw the notice of his death on the NBC news tonight. Of course, Brian Williams got in a dig about the AK-47 taking many American lives.

If Kalashnikov improved and simplified the StgW- 44 into the AK-47, basically the same was done by whoever took the Walther PP concept and developed the Makarov pistol. I suppose the designer was actually named Makarov?

Feoder Tokarev also looked hard at Colt-Browning designs and develoed the TT-30/33 pistol.

The Swiss had a good look at Petter's French M-35A and came up with the refined SIG-P-210. Copying and modifying designs isn't unique to our departed friend Mikhail.

I hope someone shoots an AK-armed Somali pirate tonight in his honor.

Is the Galil perhaps the ultimate AK derivative?

Last edited by Texas Star; 12-23-2013 at 10:42 PM.
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Old 12-23-2013, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by LVSteve View Post
While the RPK and PKM series machine guns are similar in concept to the AK, neither are identical. I think calling Kalashnikov a one trick pony is a little harsh.

Marc Krebs and Arsenal here in Las Vegas have proved how sound the basic is and that it is amenable to improvement. The Romanians even make the PSL variant in the full house 7.62x54R. Not all firearm designs are as forgiving. See M4 carbine and the attempts to put 7.62x39 in the AR15 platform.
Browning did pistols, rifles, light machine guns, heavy machine guns, and shotguns very well. Stoner to Kalashnikov is cool, but Browning to Kalashnikov does not fly. Stoner was much more creative, but I'm not going to argue with an AK-47.
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Old 12-23-2013, 11:22 PM
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Look up "automobile" if you want to see a real killer.
...followed by "deer".
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Old 12-23-2013, 11:24 PM
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Is the Galil perhaps the ultimate AK derivative?
Not if you ask a Valmet owner.
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Old 12-23-2013, 11:30 PM
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Not if you ask a Valmet owner.
Yeah, that'd be my other guess...

BTW, what kind of lizard is in your avatar? Is it a parody of the Geico gecko, as you were English?
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Old 12-24-2013, 12:07 AM
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as much as I don't care for brian Williams, in this case he was right. those are have actually been shot at with an ak are not usually so forgiving.
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Old 12-24-2013, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Texas Star View Post
I saw the notice of his death on the NBC news tonight. Of course, Brian Williams got in a dig about the AK-47 taking many American lives.

If Kalashnikov improved and simplified the StgW- 44 into the AK-47, basically the same was done by whoever took the Walther PP concept and developed the Makarov pistol. I suppose the designer was actually named Makarov?

Feoder Tokarev also looked hard at Colt-Browning designs and develoed the TT-30/33 pistol.

The Swiss had a good look at Petter's French M-35A and came up with the refined SIG-P-210. Copying and modifying designs isn't unique to our departed friend Mikhail.

I hope someone shoots an AK-armed Somali pirate tonight in his honor.

Is the Galil perhaps the ultimate AK derivative?
I saw the same report and that was one of the first lines out of Williams mouth. While doing his reports--I watched how practiced his eyes were to sneak a peek at what to say. I almost felt like I was looking at an Automaton report the news.
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Old 12-24-2013, 12:26 AM
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as much as I don't care for brian Williams, in this case he was right. those are have actually been shot at with an ak are not usually so forgiving.
Varies. My son was wounded with one in Iraq, but owns one now, too. (Semi-auto.) He likes it.

At least, Williams didn't try to tie it in with school shootings. I was surprised.
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Old 12-24-2013, 12:47 AM
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Russia's John M. Browning. A brilliant engineer and mechanical designer. Sir, I salute you.

Engineering excellence and brilliance of design know no national or political borders. Quality and reliability are all. The AK-47 had it.
For warfare and self defense it has all it needs. For casual shooters, like me, it lacks two things, elegance and accuracy.
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Old 12-24-2013, 01:38 AM
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Here we are nearly 60 years after the design of the AK. And many will say, on the field of battle. It still has a fighting chance, even against the modern more advanced rifles of todays engineers.

IMO, that says a lot for a 60 year old design.

Look how many designs the Americans went through before they actually made something that could stand up to the AK. It wasnt until the M16 in 1963, that we had something that would work well against it. Keep in mind this is at the point where the AK47 is now 16 years old. IMO, the AK was a weapon designed well ahead of its time.
Actually the M-14 was superior to the AK-47 and the AR-16. It was a political decision to replace the M-14 with the AR-16, that was far from universal in military circles. No doubt the AR-16 is here to stay, but that does not make it a better platform than the AR-16.

As far as the AK-47 it is a fine rifle that is very well established as a military grade killing machine. It is just a little rough around the edges for my tastes when I have access to something that is more polished.
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