Just returned from a large gun show in Phoenix today, and it got me thinking about protocols that should be part and parcel of every such gathering, in my opinion. Here are "John's rules", or "pet gun show peeves of a crotchety old man":

1. There should be no sales of the petrified road kill known as "Jerky" or anything like it. I include homemade peanut brittle, MRE's and stale potato chips that are past the expiration date for "closeout prices" in this genre.

2. Similarly, sales of crystal, drinking mugs made from preserving jars, feminine creams, items purporting to remove dog hair from clothing, children's toys, CD's of Nazi era marching bands, cheap Chinese knock-offs of firearms accessories, massage equipment, magnets, books on how to assassinate someone undetected, switchblade knives, stickers that say such things as "Kill them all, let God sort them out" and which feature a skull and crossbones, etc., etc., should not be permitted. It tends to give the sport of looking for guns a bad name. Remember, this is supposed to be a GUN show, not a flea market.

3. I have only two words for parents who bring their screaming hyperactive under-the-age-of-reason children to the show. These two words are baby and sitter.

4. Strollers do not belong in the aisles of gun shows. See item 3 above for my suggested two-word remedial comment.

5. People who must think they should burden themselves with huge backpacks as though they were Serpas about to tackle Everest should be required to leave them in the trunks of their cars. Two of these roadblock artists should never stop and talk to each other in the middle of an aisle.

6. People should turn off their cell phones unless using them for firearms-related business transactions. It's a particular sin to stand in the center of an aisle, blocking progress from both directions while loudly saying something like "I don't know where the damned keys are, find them yourself."

7. If you find the urge to stand in front of a table reminiscing with the table owner about the time you and Joe landed a cutthroat trout that measured over 26 inches at that lake in Saskatchewan, don't do that. Others would like to look at the guns on the table. Probably I will be one of them.

8. Do NOT, under any circumstances, introduce shopping carts or other forms of mass item transport like dollies loaded with wide boxes into the aisles.

7. Do not brag to me that you were a Navy SEAL in Vietnam when you don't look to be older than 30, max. Wearing camo clothing while telling me that only makes me want to puke on it.

8. Don't ask me to sign a petition on anything.

9. Particularly don't ask me to endorse any politician that I don't know personally enough to make a reasoned judgment about.

10. Don't try to sell me ammunition that you bought a year or so ago so that you could gouge me now with your artificially-inflated prices.

11. ALL Single Action Army revolvers at the show were once owned by Billy the Kid, Pat Garrett, Butch and Sundance, or Wyatt Earp. That doesn't make them special.

12. Those initials carved into the stock of that 1873 Winchester conclusively prove that it was once used by Annie Oakley in Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show. Sure.

13. Rarity and commensurate high prices are in the mind of the seller only.

14. "I've got more than that in it." Spare me. I've heard it before.

15. Never interrupt a conversation between a dealer or table owner with a potential customer while the two of them are negotiating a deal.

16. Handle all guns only after asking permission, and then only by the wood parts.

17. Do not operate the action of any gun without permission, and then only while pointing the dang thing at the ceiling.

18. There is always wiggle room on a price. If the table owner does not realize that, walk away.

19. Dealers will only buy YOUR gun not for what it's worth, but what he can get it for to make a reasonable profit. Reasonable to him. That's usually at least 2/3 of what you probably paid for it, even many years ago.

20. Don't point NO gun at anybody. Never. Ever. Don't let the muzzle of the gun do that, even if you are not pointing it.

21. Don't argue about minutia. It really doesn't matter, and you should be moving on to the next table.

22. Cash talks. Credit walks.

23. Bring a small flashlight and a magnifying glass. It's dark in there for a reason.

24. Beware of people speaking a foreign language who want to know if you are a dealer or if you are selling your gun privately. Insist on proper ID proving citizenship. Particularly observe this caution in California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas. The BATFE will bless you and not arrest you. And yes, Virginia, they ARE at the show.

25. Don't eat beans before coming to the show, unless you want to strategically use the result to clear people away from a table. And don't eat onions, either, OK?

26. Having a pretty girl at the table is a nice marketing touch. I like that.

27. Finally - enjoy.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

#28
And no, I don't want my glasses cleaned!

I always like it when someone spills a drink on your table and they get PO'd when you get PO'd.

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Don Mundell

Excellent, John. Let me just add one of my pet peeves...being a knife guy, I wish they wouldn't try to market cheap knives made in Pakistan, India, or China. Have you noticed? The handles are always fairly fancy, but if you look closely, you can see the words "Starkist Tuna" on the blade.

Keep the cheap knives at home! If they love them so much, why don't they use 'em? Obviously, these knives must be marketed by Homeland Security because they are guaranteed not to take an edge.

Of course, if you happen to spot a Randall knife or a well-used Ka-Bar, you're told it was either used by Sgt. Alvin York or Audie Murphy.

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Pack light and cinch tight.

Don't use a dealer's table to sit your **** on while you talk to your buddies or negotiate an aisle deal. Go outside or the eating area. How about a shower and some clean clothes, too?

Boy, are you grouchy.

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Dick Burg

Great post couldn't agree with you more. Hit a gun show in Denver today Great Grandma's jam for sale, stickers, knick nacks, t-shirts, beef jerky, brass knuckles AKA "paper weights" and 6 dollar hot dogs.

Attended one at Novi, MI, today. At least half of John's peeves had a very strong presence. Wine bottles converted with LED lights in them. 1200+ varieties of Jerky. Latest in MOLLE camo web gear. At least a half-dozen coin dealers. At least seven different candidates with nominating petitions. Swept muzzles in my direction at least twice (Yes. I did warn the bozos.). Ad nauseum....

I was looking for another new/used Gold Cub National Match. Only two in the entire show.

Also looking for a Walther PP, .32 ACP. How would I like a Hi Point .380, instead? Was offered at least 4 Walther PPK/S's in .380. Are you kidding me?.

Keep up the good work John.

I can't do the walking anymore--two miles from a parking space to the show, and then all the aisles to scan--and have no money, so I no longer go to the shows. But your list tells me that if things have changed in the last two or three years it has been for the worse.

Good stuff, John.

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Oh well, what the hell.

I always ask if i can pick up there gun when at someones table. The appreciative attitude that i get back makes for a good start on negotiations if i am interested.

The stories some table holders have told me about peoples manners are quite interesting.

So how was the scene at the good ol Crossroads this weekend, anything interesting? Smell the same as usual?

#30 - Take a bath before you come to the gun show.
#30a - Don't take a bath in your cheap aftershave. It doesn't count as a real bath.

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Dave

Good ones John particularly the CDs of Nazi era marching bands...
Always one that makes me just shake my head and say "bless his heart...."

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Halfway and one more step

#30 I agree

Being that we only have one local gun show a year, I have learned that the only rule to live by is:
Get there early!!
It's nice that they seem to always open the doors an hour early (8am) on Saturday so it is a nice get in look around and get out before the crowd arrives about 10 am!!

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NRA Life member

I only have about three things i would like to see changed to be
"permanent rules" to attend any public gun show.
1. Agree, that if you want to "catch up" with an old buddy on
whatever the topic DO NOT stand in the middle of an aisle and
have your conversation.
2. If you smell so bad your wife or significant other would not
let you in the house, don't go to a gun show. Please shower.
3. Get rid of the flea market dealers of all non-gun related
merchandise. Knives are OK unless they are the junk from
the late night "buy this 100 pc." extravaganza. I like good knives
and most gun people do as well. Just take the chinese junk
to the flea markets or sell on Fleabay.

Chuck

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They hold no Quarter

No I do not want you to sharpen my knife on that grinder and I don't care what kind of wheel you have on it.
I sharpen my own, thank you.

Or my knife sharpened. Those knife sharpening guys are always there trying to sell you their knife sharpening kit in the 5 minutes they're sharpening your blade

the original point and click interface, by Smith and Wesson

The one thing I never see people selling is a leather wheel. If the knife sharper guy sold those he'd have my attention

the original point and click interface, by Smith and Wesson

I think some of you simply forgot to mention this common gun show etiquette no-no: (This really happened!)

Don't drag a fairly good sized cannon around a gun show!

You think I'm kidding? It was at last weekend's Atlanta (Gwinnett) show. There's an aisle road blocked by a guy with a &%#$%&@ cannon for crying out loud. People were asking him what he wanted for it. Really? The guy says something like "Oh, $4k oughta get it." I'll be right back...

This was no tiny cannon that shoots the bb's and pops light bulbs. Stuff 'er with powder and a proper ball, and it would go thru a half dozen Tijuana, um, Taco Wagons and still have enough oomph to knock out California's entire sewage treatment plant system!

Good grief! I almost asked him if he happened to have a submarine for sale because I came to the gun ghow looking for one.

So, how do y'all handle the oversize cannon guys at your gun shows?

It is sad to go to a show that HAD quality tables. I was at a show in New York awhile back. One of the promoters tried to talk me into setting up at his show. He said "We don't allow flea market junk at this show. He had his back to two tables. One table was selling baseball cards, the other table was selling a coin and paper money collection.
I said "What are these people doing here?" He just walked away.

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Don Mundell

Just because you overpaid doesn't mean I should.

Being on the other side of the table as a displayer of my S&W collection, DO NOT come up to my table with the 4 DISPLAY ONLY PLEASE DO NOT HANDLE signs and pick up my prized trophy gun and spin the cylinder like some hollywood yahoo to impress your more ignorant buddy. Or for you semi auto guys, rack the slide on my 100% nickel model 39 that was presented to Fred Miller when he retired from S&W.

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James Redfield
LM #497

I don't know what VA has become. It sickens me.

And yes, I have heard that a lot of the guns that get on the streetz here are from ignorant sellers at gun shows.

Thank you for your care, and respect of federal and state laws.

I would like everyone on this forum to pay special attention to this "rule."
(Hint: it's not just a rule, it's a law or set of laws)

Again, thank you very much John

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an actual conservative

they print those "do not handle without permission" for a reason. and whoever you are, includes you.

Another good rule would be to try to limit swinging your shotgun or rifle muzzle around in an attempt to knock my damn head off. Hold the thing up enough that it doesn't do that.

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MARK

These are the people who say "The gun went off, I don't know why."

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an actual conservative

HAHA quite a manifesto. I bet you're a blast at Christmas parties.

You make some valid points, but some are just anti-social.

Ever heard of the Soup Nazi?

#32. If you are selling guns, don't stick 8" into the isle!
#33. Don't ask me to take a check on a $8 sale!
#34. Just because it's for sale, I don't have to let your kid or you handle it.
#35. If your wife or girl friend isn't into gun's, don't bring her. If she is there to keep you from spending money, Don't come back until you grow a pair!

The good news was, In the 80's at the Columbus OGCA shows: The guy from Texas that brought his wife/girl friend in the tight black leather pants to every show.

Venting over. Ivan

Like any other social activity you will get a percentage of society that you normally wouldn't associate with. I'm not talking race just folks you normally wouldn't pal around with. Whether it be the goofball with a cannon or the family that packs every kid to come along etc. it is what it is. I just shake my head and move on lifes too short to sweat the small stuff.

if you do pick up a gun,replace it lightly and don't bang every gun around it.........ugggg.........I would recommend for your nicer " don't touch guns ",put them in the glass covered cases.It will keep your blood pressure down.

Aloha,

Slightly OT

Cholo, if you want a slightly used Russian sub,

Here's one for sale.

Submarine for Sale - Whiskey Class Submarine - Project Boats

Affordable too under $5oo,ooo

I think Delivery may be Extra

Hate to pick on the unfortunate among us, but guys on Rascals or electric wheelchairs are a PITA. They expect common courtesy but give none back. Most come sailing up and down the aisles like snowplows after a blizzard, looking at the tables, oblivious to how crowded the show might be, or what might be in front of them.

LOL! Had that guy yesterday get offended when I politely told him no. My next words weren't so polite!

ESPECIALLY # 35.... people that are accompanying a gun nut that stand 4 ft. back in the isle with their arms crossed and a scowl a badger wouldnt challenge. I dont want to say "excuse me " as this might get them to whine" come on,,, lets go it's to crowded"
I was at a show in Barre Vt. this month,, man was making his initial walk around before any serious buying,, his female companion said " just what do you want #&* @&^ it" buy something and lets go!!!"

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UNDER THE CONE OF SILENCE

#36. Fishing tackle belongs in your boat or go to a Fishing show. 50 year old non-functioning level wind reels are junk or a parts collection -- it is not a firearm.

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S&WHF 366

Lots of good comments here. Unfortunately, I believe the internet will make gunshows continue to decline. I go to many gun shows and can't remember the last time I bought anything. Just don't want to pay well over market price.

The internet will not replace a gun show. For me it is about the seeing and handling part as for prices that is why you haggle with the people just like the flea market or buying a used car never pay the asking price.

Well its not just gun shows. For the most part, in any large event, there are going to be crude, rude and unattractive personalities lurking about. What to do about it? Stay home, endure it or go late on the last day. I think we will never see "the way it used to be" be again.

Sounds like a couple of folks need to start their own gun show.

I like peanut brittle. It helps wash down the coffee.

Great post Paladin. Having attended gunshows for 50 years, behavior has changed. But I do like the smoked food (better than the concession stand hot dog), and I do like the pretty women. Sitting behind my tables of 2 1/2 days, having the scenery change for the better (tight leather jeans) is always welcome.
My pet-peeve are the video-game soldiers that only handle your firearms to play with, and have NO intention of buying them. The wal-mart mentality.
And yes, the internet/and video youth are putting our shows out of business.

You know John, I can remember when the show there at the fair grounds was really enjoyable to go to..Lots of dealers. Lots of individual sellers and buyers. Guns and ammo of all descriptions.

But as you say, you want a flea market, go to the Greyhound on a Saturday or Sunday morning. At least it's outside. Even Glendale swap is nothing but junk now.

It will probably help in a few months when many of the Snowbirds head north.

Just my observation.


WuzzFuzz

Good list and a lot of the reasons I tend to skip the shows anymore. I guess I got spoiled by the way they used to be back when people had respect for others and their property. I still make the occasional show but haven't found much to buy in quite awhile.
I used to help my former boss with his tables in the 80's and especially liked the trading that went on before the show started. I guess that's where the good stuff goes these days as I see little of it on the tables anymore.
I can imagine it's real frustrating for those with tables anymore as I cringe when I see how so many handle guns these days. I only handle those I'm interested with permission and try and be respectful of other's property.

John - you and the other forum members have collectively provided all of us with some excellent reminders. My regret is that the people who really need to read every word of these posts never will.

My input, FWIW,

1. Leave your babies, especially in strollers, friends, children, relatives, and any one else under 21 at home! If you can't afford child care, pool your funds with another attendee and allow the children to stay somewhere else and have fun.

2. The aisles at gun shows are always narrow (increases the table density for the sponsors). Shoot the bull or reminisce with friends in the snack bar area. chud333 and I must have attended the same shows.

3. Always respect others, especially those buyers who need to pass or get to the front of the sellers to negotiate. There's no room for "tire kickers"!

4. Ban knife sales at gun shows, or don't advertise and promote them as "Gun Shows." $10.00 per head in this area is too much to pay for a show that has more than half of the sellers with only knives to sell.

While I have bought a lot of firearms through the Internet, I doubt that it will ever come close to replacing a LGS, FTF, or gun show. Poor quality photos, too few photos, too much wax, poor photo lighting, limited descriptions, and intentional embellishments of the facts as to the real condition of the firearm by the sellers all translate in to buyer disappointment!

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That's what we do!

One thing I really enjoyed at the gun shows many years ago - the total absence of 'urban youth', or apparent gang members trolling the aisles impressing everyone with their cool badness.
Have seen plenty of it here, complete with the pants way down to posterior, gold chains, etc.

Used to be sort of the 'common man' gathering, not a bunch of weirdos, Soldiers of Fortune wannabes and 'Operators'.

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Ret'd LEO
SWCA #2275

opaul said:Well its not just gun shows. For the most part, in any large event, there are going to be crude, rude and unattractive personalities lurking about. What to do about it? Stay home, endure it or go late on the last day. I think we will never see "the way it used to be" be again.

I hate to have to say this as I am a part of both fraternities but, there is a huge difference in the social level of clientel between gun shows and fly fishing shows. Gun shows just seem to draw a very different class of people. Different, not for the better.

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Lost in Penn's Woods

I unfortunately did that at a T shirt/hat vendors table. I purchased 3 hats and four shirts that didn't even fit me. Never again!

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Memory of Randy Freas-Rimfired

Must have been a BIG TIME MAJOR Gun Show, because around here in Michigan you don't see a pretty girl at a table EVER, what you see are Old Farts like myself with a spare tire larger that we would admit to, some bald and some gray. BTW, I've been working hard enough clearing snow in the past month that this morning I was able to take my belt in one notch without thinking about it. I guess that's one positive of one of the worst winters in my recent memory. Bad news is that the hair is still gray and I still have a spare tire larger than I'm willing to admit too.

The last show i was at some guy asked to rub my feet
I just kept going. Seems he was trying to sell shoe inserts.

That's a hard way to make a living. I can only imagine what gun show feet must smell like.

Around here, they're advertised as gun and knife shows.

A simple fact seems to be missing. The buyers actually tend to dictate what is offered for sale. Our gun shows are pretty much dictated by the individual vendors. The promoter can exclude willing vendors, but they can't even fill the hall with the policy of allowing everyone inside. It evades some of the walk in customers, but they really can walk past the tables of items that don't interest them. They don't even need to complain, just walk past.

You may also be preaching to the wrong audience. Stand outside and yell at those coming inside. Tell the customers not to even look at the offerings you feel are so offensive. They will look at you like you're crazy and that you have no right to tell them what to be interested in buying. Its also kind of a perfect competition deal. Vendors pay a bunch of money to attend the gun shows. No, not the minor $10 (or $5) you pay out front. So the vendors bring along anything they feel will sell. If it doesn't sell, they'll eventually stop bring it along. If they don't make any money, they'll stop renting tables. But what you see are the vendors who have the stuff you find offensive just keep coming back and selling. Show after show. If they weren't selling anything, why would they do that?

The reality is gun shows have evolved over the years. No one just decided to suddenly bring junk. They bring it even though you don't like it because others do like it, and it sells. They've also discovered that survivalists are often gun nuts. And they go camping and fishing. The gun dollars can be spent on all kinds of cool stuff. And from time to time I even hear complaints about all the reloading booths. Why buy bullets or gunpowder when you can just buy loaded ammo? And they take up valuable space that could have guns. Cool new black guns they like. Why do they even include antique flintlocks. No child of today would buy that.

Gun shows are composed of offerings that have proven to sell well. I don't care if you are a vegan, beef jerky sells. Just because you are selfish and only want to see things that interest you, you surely wouldn't pay the $100 admission if the promoter excluded all the stuff you find objectionable. He'd have to charge that much because he'd also be excluding all the other people.

If you want a gun show with just your kind of items, start your own show and see how many people beat a path to your door.

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Dick Burg

The buzz word that sticks in my mind a lot of non knowers is the "gunshow loophole"..
Gunshow's in my area are going the way of the dinosaur, no deals, costly and proximity..
I do miss the alligator jerky tho...