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03-23-2014, 10:01 PM
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I have two historical questions
I'm watchin' this TV show. Mob City. LA in 1947.
All the uniformed cops are wearing Sam Brown belts, with the shoulder strap.
All the cops' straps went from their left shoulder to their right hip.
Except the Chief of Police. His went from the right shoulder to the left hip.
Does anyone know (a) if this would be correct (or just TV) and (b) if it IS correct, WHY?
I thought, maybe, he was left-handed, which was why his leather was reversed, but when they show him full-body he has his gun on his right hip.
Number 2. One of the cars has an A sticker on the windshield. The war's over. How long did gas rationing last?
'Course, he could just have never gotten around to removing it. There is a '86 Texas vehicle inspection sticker in the windshield of my truck. Been a while since that truck lived in Texas, and the sticker don't bother me none, so I've never felt the driving need to scrape it off.
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03-23-2014, 10:03 PM
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It's just TV. They made/make their own rules
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03-24-2014, 12:44 AM
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The military "Sam Brown" belt had several dees to attach the shoulder strap. If a pistol was worn the strap would attach to the dees on the right and go over the left shoulder. If the saber was carried the shoulder strap would be reversed. The strap was intended to carry the weight of the weapon, regardless of which side. I don't recall any military left-handed holsters, everyone was right-handed for uniformity.
If the C.O.P. was carrying a pistol the strap should have gone from the holster side and over the opposite shoulder. If it wasn't that way then it was just Hollywierd's usual inattention to detail.
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03-24-2014, 02:02 AM
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'Mob City': 18 Stylish Shots | Photo 10 of 18 | EW.com
The guy in the middle. He goes right to left. Both the other guys in the pic go left to right. Then two pictures further is a street scene, with two more uniform cops. And they, also, are left to right. He's the only right to left. Strange.
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03-24-2014, 06:29 AM
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You answered your own question. " I was watching TV"
Kinda like the girl in the commercial that met the French model on the internet..."Bonjour"???
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03-24-2014, 06:52 AM
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Don't know about the rest of you, I strongly disliked the Sam Brown. It was a great day, (for me at least), when we got the OK to get rid of them.
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03-24-2014, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSR III
You answered your own question. " I was watching TV"
Kinda like the girl in the commercial that met the French model on the internet..."Bonjour"???
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Because, of course, EVERYTHING on TV is fake.
I saw a TV show about WW2. So obviously during WW2 they did not carry M1 rifles, they did not drive jeeps, they did not fight the Germans. Because EVERYTHING on TV is fake.
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03-24-2014, 09:48 AM
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The original Sam Browne belts were made for military use prior to WW1. Various manufacturers made their products differently. The more common variations incorporated D-rings mounted into the belt on the left side where a sword or saber would be carried. Some makers provided separate belt-mounted carriers with D-rings for the shoulder strap, and these could be positioned at either side.
Police departments, and more frequently individual officers, purchased their gear from various sources. Many of those sources were companies also engaged in manufacturing military gear, and between the world wars there was a lot of government surplus equipment sold off (just like after WW2, after Korea, after Vietnam, etc). Police departments were not known for large budgets, and police officer pay was not overly high back in the day, so lots of military surplus equipment was purchased for law enforcement use.
Well into the 1970's I saw Sam Browne belts with the built-in D-rings in police supply catalogs, and I saw them in use by individual officers, many of whom simply cut the D-rings off. During that time period my department paid each officer $240 per year as a uniform allowance and we purchased all of our own equipment. A good S&W revolver was between $80 and $130 police purchase order price. Handcuffs were about $20. New Sam Browne belts were about $30 to $40 (variations in linings, stitching, etc). Wool uniform trousers were about $30, shirts about $25. Uniform caps about $25. Winter uniform coat was about $50. The uniform allowance never went very far, and the dry cleaning bills could be budget-busters. Credit cards were still a fairly new innovation, and most cops couldn't have qualified for much of a credit limit, so the police supply stores offered individual charge accounts with monthly payment plans. Some companies employed sales representatives who went out to police and sheriff's departments, took orders, measurements for uniform fitting, etc (probably also collecting past due accounts as well). I remember years of writing out a monthly check to the uniform supply house along with my house payment and utility bills, hoping there would be enough left over for gas money and lunch money.
Just about all of us had second jobs, or some kind of small business on the side to help make ends meet. That is when I started making holsters and accessories. I did simple pancake holsters for about $6 or $8 and uniform duty holsters for $15 or so, back in the early 1970's.
Sorry for the thread drift. Just reminiscing I guess.
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03-24-2014, 10:35 AM
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In 1968 when I started we only wore the sam browne belt over our dress coat which was only used for parades or funerals. They weren't very comfortable.
Lobo mentioned 2nd jobs. Oh yeah. If I didn't work a bunch of part time or even one time jobs, I couldn't have stayed on the police force. There was a blackboard that was used to list jobs available. Roofers, painters, funeral homes, etc, would call the front desk to say they needed workers for jobs. I checked that board all the time. If you wanted a job you told a Sgt and he would put your name on the list and by the end of shift you be told if you had the job or not. I carried a lot of caskets and nailed zillions of roof shingles and pumped tons of gas.
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03-24-2014, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Because, of course, EVERYTHING on TV is fake.
I saw a TV show about WW2. So obviously during WW2 they did not carry M1 rifles, they did not drive jeeps, they did not fight the Germans. Because EVERYTHING on TV is fake.
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No not everything, but it is make believe. Actors, directors, props people are just workers putting on a show. Doesn't mean that everything that they protray is historically correct or even if correct, that they get it right all the time. There are numerous movie or TV bloopers where a cigarette is different lengths from scene to scene or a hat is in one scene but not the next etc. You asked the question, I merely tried to give you an answer.
If you are not happy with the answer, no need to get huffy.
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03-24-2014, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donn
Don't know about the rest of you, I strongly disliked the Sam Brown. It was a great day, (for me at least), when we got the OK to get rid of them.
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I never had to wear one (or any other belt) but they sure looked cool.
Why are they called Sam Browne belts?
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03-24-2014, 01:33 PM
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According to Wiki, Sam Browne was a British officer in India, who lost his left arm. The sword had a tendency to slide around on the waist belt, and you had to keep adjusting it with your left hand. Since he did not have a left hand, he came up with this belt-and-shoulderstrap combo to keep the sword in place.
Other officers said, "Hey, that's neat" and they had them made, and they eventually became part of the Brit uniform.
In the Boer War Germans saw them on the Brits, and also thought, "Hey, that's neat". And so it spread, from Army to Army.
Sam Browne belt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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03-24-2014, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donn
Don't know about the rest of you, I strongly disliked the Sam Brown. It was a great day, (for me at least), when we got the OK to get rid of them.
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Never been a cop. And the "Sam Brown" was history in the military long before I joined. (I wasn't a officer anyway) It does look to me though like it would take some weight off the waist and hips. Not as well as a LBE harness, but some help.
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03-24-2014, 10:08 PM
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The shoulder strap was always optional with our duty gear and I never would wear one. They were nicknamed "the suicide strap" for a reason.
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03-24-2014, 10:13 PM
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As we're nearing Easter Sunday and the anniversary of the Rising, I guess this is appropriate....
The Wolfe Tones - The Broad Black Brimmer - YouTube
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03-24-2014, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpo
According to Wiki, Sam Browne was a British officer in India, who lost his left arm. The sword had a tendency to slide around on the waist belt, and you had to keep adjusting it with your left hand. Since he did not have a left hand, he came up with this belt-and-shoulderstrap combo to keep the sword in place.
Other officers said, "Hey, that's neat" and they had them made, and they eventually became part of the Brit uniform.
In the Boer War Germans saw them on the Brits, and also thought, "Hey, that's neat". And so it spread, from Army to Army.
Sam Browne belt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Note that Sam Browne was awarded the Victoria Cross. In the photo shown in the link, he is also wearing an ivory-handled General Officer's Sword with the distinctive Mameluke hilt. It resembles the USMC Officer's Sword.
Look at the cross medal with maroon ribbon at the end of his row of medals. That is the VC. This man was a hero, equivalent to a American awarded the Medal of Honor. And he became a general. Not bad for a man whose left arm had been cut off, but who managed to continue a military career!
I had to wear a Sam Browne crossbelt in the USAF, sometimes. I hated it. I think it caused neck aches.
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