I am on jury duty this week for a magistrate court. I found it facinating trying to figure out why potential jurors were seated or dismissed. Seemed to be no rhyme or reason to me.

I was chosen as an alternate juror for a morning trial that was today. All the jurors showed up and we waited in the jury room. I saw the asst. solicitor come in the court ,and the defense lawyer and client, also come in.

Next thing you know, they all leave. About 30 minutes later the judge came in and dismissed us. The DUI case was settled out of court. I guess they hoped the arresting officer would not show up. Who knows. Civic duty done!

__________________
Miss My Buddy crsides!!

You did your duty then lucked out! I was on an indecent exposure jury once. Many witnesses and very cut and dry. When we went to deliberate I found myself at the head of the table though I wasn't foreman. We took a vote and everyone said guilty real fast as they worked towards me. Then I said, "Now lets not rush things here." and they all glared at me with that "Well, there's always one!" look. I said I think he's guilty, too, but this is important and has a big effect on this guy's life and would like you each to say why you voted guilty. They thawed out and we then spent forty minutes or so discussing it and it went well. then we voted guilty. But, man, you should have saw their faces at the one moment I stopped the vote.

I wrote the jury software for a local clerk of court. Frequently, a plea will be accepted after the jury is picked. I guess that is when reality kicks in for the defendant. I recommended that a time standard be set for pleas so that the cost of the jury can be saved. Local attorneys do not like the idea even though it would save a lot of money for the courts. There are a few courts in the nation that place a deadline for pleas that is a few days before the trial. Presently, the deadline is when the defendant sees the jurors sitting in court.

__________________
Corripe Cervisiam

Jury Duty, my wife Penny was called a lot. On these days Penny and my Daughter would plan a "Girl's Day Shopping". Reason was that the defense excused her quickly-Penny's Husband, five Sons, and Son In Law were all Police Officers.

Some attorneys will admit to you that cases are won, or lost, in the jury selection process.

__________________
That's what we do!

Called many times, never sat. Always asked "well if they're not guilty then why are they here?"

We have had a dust up here recently about people failing to show up for jury duty. Normal procedure was for those found guilty of not showing up for jury duty to get fined and assessed court costs. Then a judge ruled that the court costs were unconstitutional and that placed the County in a bind as people are now wanting their money back.

The other issue with accepting a plea is having a good idea of how the jury is made up and where their sympathies are. Sometimes there are not enough exceptions for either side and a jury is selected that will vote one way or the other 80% of the time.

__________________
Front sight and squeeze

You did the right thing by making them deliberate.
It reminds me of the movie "12 Angry Men."
The same thing happened.
If you can, check out the original version with Henry Fonda.
It is probably my favorite movie.

Stu

__________________
NRA Benefactor/Cert Instructor

Most jury duty consists of sitting around and not being used....The main point you serve is to scare the defendant into taking a plead deal, instead of you deciding his/her fate.

I've been on 8 jury's, 7 criminal.
All in 14 days.
Only found one not guilty, a set up by the cops it looked like to us.

Last few times, never made it on the jury....

__________________
Only difference Fool/Mule-ears

Been called five times. Served twice, both times for King County Superior Court. The other times my boss considered me essential - since I was the only one left that actually knew how to do my job I suppose I was.

Got to the point where you sit in the jury box being interviewed by the attorneys many times; was excused all but once. Defense attorney: "What do you do for a living?" Me: "I'm an emergency dispatcher for a private security firm." Defense attorney: "You speak to the police often?" Me: "About 50 times a shift." Him: "You're excused". Guess they figured I'd be predisposed to side with the police.

One case I was extremely relieved to have been excused - it was for child molestation.

Finally got on a panel for a civil case - car accident.

Jury duty blows! I mean it really sucks-Citizens get herded around like cattle and given the mushroom treatment until and unless picked and then only after a bunch of demeaning questions by snarky lawyers and a pompous blustery judge. Not the way it is supposed to be, nor he way the lawyers and Judge want it to be but unfortunately a lot of times that is what it turns out to be.
Being in the military sucks too! You get herded around like cattle, given the mushroom treatment until someone decides you need to know something and you have to put up with snarky Lt's fresh out of ROTC.

What these two distasteful duties both have in common is that they are the two most important duties one can perform for their country pure and simple. In War time-the military moves to the front as the number 1 duty while in peace time Jury duty takes over 1st place. We MUST have citizens that are willing to serve both and do their duty with honor and integrety. People who lie or say smart *** stuff to get off of jury duty are in my opinion no better than deserters in the military in the face of battle.

What these two duties also have in common is the extraordinary amount of pride one feels after completing their service.

Neither is fun but they both need to be done.

As far as defendants go, I can tell you from experience (30 years worth) that the most powerful thing that motivates a defendant is the fact that a jury is there and ready to go. Jurors say that their time is wasted cause they sat around all morning and then were sent home but nothing could be further from the truth. While that jury was standing around in the hall 10 defendants were in the courtroom pleading guilty that otherwise would not have done so-so in effect the presence of the jury helped resolve 10 cases that otherwise would not be resolved. Same thing with war-send a platoon of SEALs over to wherever and one look at them and the insurgents decide to go play somewhere else. Not a shot fired but the job gets done. It isn't efficient by any means but the job gets done. Every now and then when a shot has to be fired or a case has to be tried, thank God for citizens willing to show up and serve.

Whew! Sorry about the rant but I bet y'all could hear the drums anf fife playing in the background

__________________
Forum consigliere

Now that I'm retired I'd like to be called for jury duty. Problem is, everyone understands when they get to the question "what did you do for a living" I'd be excused. Same for my wife, gets to the "what does/did your husband do for a living" and she's gone. What I don't understand is why this seems to apply to civil trials as well. Apparently once your on the "no fly" list it applies to all juries.

Caje, I absolutely understand where you are coming from. I didn't look on it as an inconvenience (even thought it kind of was from a logistical standpoint) but my duty as a citizen.

I'll take your word for how it goes on the criminal side of things - my one civil case went all the way through deliberations as to who was at fault and who got how much compensation. Getting 12 people to agree on the money aspect was NOT fun.

How did you arrive at this conclusion?

__________________
Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Yeah, that whole innocent until proven guilty thing can get a little confusing . . .

__________________
Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

One of my fellow jurors said that the last time they had jury duty it was for a speeding case. The officer did not show up for whatever reason, and the case was thrown out.

__________________
Miss My Buddy crsides!!

I almost got arrested the last time I had jury duty. I had to take my belt off to get through the metal detector. They handed me my keys and stuff that I had in my pockets, then herd me to the jury room before I could get my self straight, the arrogant *** running the show tells me I better take my hat off if I know what is good for me.

I turned to him and said I'm trying to hold my F'in pants up. He just about billy clubed me.

Some people have no sense of humor.

I have served about ten times, and have never been picked. There has to be a better way.

The closest I came to making it onto a jury, was a drunk driving case. The defendant was a white male in his twenty's. The lawyers and judge got together and the next thing I know me and the only other white male on the jury are dismissed!

How is that a jury of his peers if they dismiss the only two people on the jury, that were around his age, and his race?

Counselor, you make a strong case. Thank you.

__________________
Some collect art; I shoot it!

Actually, you'll usually hear this from "jury consultants," right before they tell you their rates.

Never been before a jury as a defendant but always wondered about their intelligence.
I mean being judged by 12 people who weren't smart enough to get out of jury duty.

What I have observed is that the truth is not as important to prosecutors and defense lawyers as winning the case. I have seen both spin the truth to be the winner. I have testified in a murder trial on the way the jury selection program works. The defense was trying to imply that the selection was racially biased so that a murderer could go free. I was able to show that the difference in the percent of black jurors selected was only .2% different than the last census.

I know people that believe that juries are not the fairest way to determine guilt. I tell them that a biased judge can be less fair and that a jury is the equalizer.

__________________
Corripe Cervisiam

I served on a drug case. One Mexican guy who recently came to the states along with partner was travelling to make a drug sale. They stopped by a rest stop and got busted. The Mexican was on trial and the other was prosecuted and went to jail.

The defendant's lawyer kept making him look like an innocent fool, "he didn't know the other guy was carrying drugs." "He didn't know why they were going north on a long drive." But they were driving in his car meeting his so called friends.

Two of us said guilty; the others said not guilty. There were a lot of symphathy for him from the others. I heard a lot of, "Poor guy" and "he was duped." We deliberated for two day but ended in a hung jury. They ended up in a plea bargin and he was deported.

The moment the foreman announced a hung jury, there was a big smile on both the defendant and defense lawyer faces.

Served once on a 2nd degree murder trial. Selected 1st day, didn't go home until we reached a verdict 3 days later. Sheriffs Dept. moved our cars from the street, put us up in a hotel. We ate meals together, traveled as a group to and from the courthouse. This was in the 70's, no a/c in the courthouse, suit and tie, summer, hotter than Hades! This was not a fun time folks, quite an experience. Testimony took 3 days, deliberation took 2 hours, it wasn't complicated. Called about 25 years later, was selected again for an appeal of a conviction of 1st degree murder, didn't serve on that one. Why do I always get the murder cases!! Anyway, it's not a job you want, but someone's always going to do it. If you're selected, please pay attention and give it your best shot. It's an important part of our justice system, such as it is. I'd rather be tried here than some other spots in the world, wouldn't you?

Once again my bad habit of off the wall comments to initiate discussion has made me look the fool. While effective at work in getting the powers that be to slow down a moment I realize they have little place in a roundtable discussion.
I usually get dismissed early in the process due to the number of active and former LEO's among family and friends. The times I deliberately shirked my duty was when I was a mechanic and 90% of the city lift stations were without power after a hurricane, the other being when my absence as a operator would have placed a severe burden on my coworkers. The courts, society in general and even a few in The AdminBuilding may not consider what I do as an essential function but myself and 15 others would disagree.
I generally don't care to explain myself but being a FNG sometimes requires a bit of take. I'm coming to appreciate what this forum is about and realize not everyone wants or needs to hear from some WAG.

Each year fewer and fewer cases,as a percentage of the total, are tried. Walking up the courthouse steps and the beginning of the process inside cause even the IRS and state attorneys, as well as taxpayers, to re-evaluate the strength of their case. Much more often than going to trial and handing the outcome over to others, settlements that have evaded both parties for years of bravado and bluster are quickly and amicably negotiated on the courthouse steps. I put on my suit and prepare to litigate, but can easily bet that on trial day, I will more likely than not be working on another case after lunch. That is efficiency. Thank you to all who served on juries!

The jury selection process allows each side to inquire, ostensibly to determine any reasons a potential juror might have that would prevent them from being impartial, or incapable of performing the required duties. Each party to the case may exclude any juror for "cause", such as a family or business relationship with one side or the other, preconceived ideas about the matters at issue, etc. Each party may also exercise a limited number of peremptory challenges, effectively dismissing some without having to state a reason.

The purported object of the exercise is to empanel a jury composed of capable, fair, and honest citizens to decide the matters at issue.

In actual practice each side uses every advantage allowed to attempt to load the jury panel with those they believe most likely to sympathize with their positions. Prosecutors in a homicide case would love to have a jury composed of relatives of homicide victims, cops, etc. A defense attorney representing a youthful minority drug dealer would prefer to load the jury panel with minority mothers of convicted felons, etc.

Syndicated columnist Mike Rosen once wrote that the American system of trial by a jury of one's peers is the best system ever devised, the only problem appearing to be finding a dozen people who knew nothing and couldn't read.

Listen well..Caj. speaks as only someone who has been in the courts can speak..experienced no doubt......Believe it or not, most folks eventually picked for jury duty end up not only glad they were picked ,but with a much better understanding of what the justice system is and is not...After my plane crash and recovery I only worked one big time fugitive case and spent the rest of my time assigned to the courts as the Circuit Marshal (Yes ONE l)...My pet peeve.... Marshall is a name Marshal is a position...I tried to handle at least one trial myself each term of court just to keep abreast of who is who in the court family...The people that worked for me got stuck in the criminal trials...The Court Security Officers usually worked the civil stuff. I have seen jurors cry, augur. and almost come to blows during their deliberations...While at the National Judicial Collage in Reno I found out how different courts (State especially can be).....Judges can and are different in their approach to trials, but most are serious about the rule of justice. As a cop sometimes it was hard to understand defense attorney's until you stopped and realized their job was to see the defendant not only got a fair trial but with good planning, knowledge and not a little luck got not only a fair trial but sometimes were found Not Guilty....Some were very good and a few were not good. The is question is did the defendant get the best defense possible....If not the system doesn't work....Infective assistance of counsel is and can be extremely important....Even though I by nature generally believed the defendant was guilty I always felt that they should get a fair trial and effective representation...In the long run it saves time and money...Better a guilty person gets off than a not guilty person gets convicted...Took me some time in my long career to understand that premise......To watch a real good defense attorney was not only educational but very interesting....It takes all sides. Judge, Jury, defendant, and police, and a good well educated prosecution, for the system to work....Sometimes the results might not be right but it should always be fair......Believe me sometimes ,not often the darn defendant is not guilty.......Imagine that!!!

Called twice. Served twice. Somehow ended up being the foreman - twice.

The first time I was on a real estate case. The in-house realtor was suing the builder for lost commissions after he was fired. We go into deliberation and the first thing someone says is: "Is there any way we can make these people give some money back to the folks who bought houses? Did you hear how much they were charging for them?!" Another two or three heartily agree. Now, we've been sitting for three days and it was obvious that a few of my peers didn't pay attention to what the trial was about AT ALL! So the rest of us spent an hour reeducating folks on what a jury can and cannot do.

The second was a string of burglaries and the defendant had the bad luck of robbing a judge from the next town over. Man, oh man, did the persecution bring all the big guns! After the verdict, the sitting judge asked to see the jury in his quarters. He had ordered pizza and we sat there with the prosecutor, the defense attorney, the bailiff, the recorder, the lead detective - in short, everyone involved except the bad guy. It reminded me of the time I was in a school play and we had an after party. Too weird...

It is our civic duty and one I will never shy away from, no matter how ignorant my peers may seem to be.

I was called once and waited all morning but they pled and we got sent home with some tee shirts about serving.
I got called twice last year but was before my back surgery and got an out both times. I've had to retire since and kind of wish I'd get called now as I think it would be interesting to serve on a jury.
My wife has served on two and found the experience rewarding.

My wife used to get called about once every couple of years in Jacksonville. When I was working full time in Atlanta several years ago, I got called for Federal jury duty. They gave you a number and you called in every day to see if you had to report the next day. My number was never called which I thought was lucky since that's the week Atlanta's former mayor went on trial for corruption. Got called for jury duty in Jacksonville but was excused by the Clerk of the Court as I was full time caregiver for my mom.

CW

__________________
μολὼν λαβέ

I have that movie and when I've brought this up before talking to people about our jury duty experiences, I have said, "Man, I felt like Henry Fonda in 12 Angry Men there for a minute!" It also happened to "Aunt Bea" in one of the color Andy Griffith Shows". She was the only woman on a jury and didn't think Jack Nicholson (very pre Easy Rider)was guilty because he "looks like such a good boy". Of course she was right.

What really gets me is the fact that we have courts in my town and courts also in the next town over (in which I hate to drive) which is the county seat and I have never been called for one in my town it's always in the town I hate driving in.

__________________
I Cor. 10:13 "1611KJV"

I guess they'll find out I'm now an American citizen one day and I'll get called. About 6-7 years ago I faxed in a copy of my UK passport last time at the request of the clerk's office. Maybe they have me marked as "damned foreigner" or some such in the system.

Been called and served three times. Must be something about my awesome appearance as I was foreman all three times. The last case was like the above but theft. As I was "experienced", I asked everybody to submit a "preliminary" ballot as to guilty or not and everyone agreed- Guilty. (It really was cut and dried and I have no idea why it went to trial...) In our case, I said, It seems we have consensus. An individual pointed out that it was near lunch time, so we waited until after the county provided Quiznois subs, chips, and a coke, to return our verdict. Would gladly do it again. Not for the "free lunch" though..

LVSteve, once you are tagged as "Not a US Citizen", you will not be considered for jury duty again. You can contact the clerk and give them current status if you want to be picked at some point.

The program that I wrote uses driver license lists and voter registration lists to find new jurors and to correct addresses of jurors that were tagged as not deliverable because of a bad address. My program does not check to see if someone is now a registered voter that was previously tagged as a non citizen. Some programs may.

__________________
Corripe Cervisiam

Any lawyers first pick - someone who is pro the stance wanted

Last pick - Anyone who's values may oppose the stance wanted.

Everybody else - if they don't have a particular stance, they are someone the lawyer thinks are pliable enough to be convinced to to take his stance.

You hit it on the head! Which is why trials are so stressful and why good lawyering is so important!
Most people forget that there are TWO lawyers with diametrically opposing wants out there. And believe me, we both just love to place our cases and client's lives in the hands of 12 people we just met and pissed off that very morning.

The conundrum is that in order to get the best settlements/plea bargains for your client a lawyer has to have the reputation of not being afraid to go to trial and "take it to the mat (or up the schute)" so to speak. and how do you get that reputation as a lawyer? Why you just strap on the codpiece get a big cup of coffee and say to the prosecutor and Judge "Well then lets go then!"
About 10 years back a judge wouldn't take some plea offers I had worked out( admittedly they were weak cases that the DA wanted to go away and the offers were gimmes). I (with my client's permission) called him out and the end result was I picked 6 juries and actually tried 4 trials to verdict with two acquittals over a 6 day (yea I made then come in on Saturday)span.
I got left alone by that judge and now thankfully he has been elevated to the court of appeal ( he was elected unopposed-the word on the street was that any lawyer that ran against him would be tarred and feathered)

__________________
Forum consigliere

On target, bull's eye!

Cajun also didn't mention that winning a case (prevailing) is a lot, lot tougher than it looks on either television or in the movies. Look for the "Junkyard Dog" attorney who had just as soon go for the jugular in front of the jury as sip good Scotch that evening! Don't even think about representing yourself in a court of law, especially if there's a lot on the line (your keester).

__________________
That's what we do!

Old but true saying...He who represents himself in a court of law, has an idiot for an attorney..The one exception that I saw was a guy (lifer) that was a genius..(certifiable genius) He was MSP's number one jail house lawyer...He had his own death sentence over turned by W/Mo., he had briefed it and argued the case himself...He also was a clock maker of some reputation. Grandfather clocks, made with no screws and no nails. They were beautiful..Evey doctor in town had bought one from him while he was in the joint., He had his own little shop close to the control center.. He paid the state for the materials and any profit was sent by buyer to the inmates outside account...The Warden was asked why they let him make the clocks and repair stuff from the outside and the Warden told the inquirers. He is happy as a con. If he wasn't there is no doubt he could duplicate any lock in the institution...He augured a case (civil) in our circuit involving a Rolex watch he had worn for years that was eventually sized. This was done because some state rep. saw it on his arm while the rep. was touring the joint and it POed the rep. because he was a con with a 2G watch on....this con argued the case to a hung jury against a very good litigator....Finally in a conference it was agreed that he could send the watch out to a relative...Every body was happy, case closed. The convict really never wanted to get out, he had found a home and because he wrote briefs for the other cons his safety and living conditions were as good as could be in a prison.. As a side note...His prison uniform was tailor made by some con in the clothing factory that owed him for a brief he filed for the con...The old Wall is now closed, at the time it was the oldest penitentiary west of the Mississippi River. It had housed some very notable gangsters during the old days..A couple of the later notable inmates were Sonny Liston, and the only escape on record was James Earl Ray..

Cajun, here they never let me sit on a jury much less be foreman. The minute they find out that you are a lawyer, it is thank you for showing up, now hit the road.

I've had jury duty twice. I was never selected but did undergo the "voir dere" (sp) process. It's an important duty but I am suspicious of the process.

The impressions I acquired.

1. I never want to be judged by a jury of my "peers" because most potential jurors I met were not my peers. Our society has become so much a mix of cultures, ideals, political beliefs, etc., etc., that I would potentially be judged by people who have no clue of who I am or why I do what I do, or did; or how I think.

2. Both prosecutors and defense attorneys are looking for jurors they can BS. So, if the prospective juror displays intellect, independent thought, a determined attitude, they will probably not get selected.

3. Attorneys and law enforcement personnel will never/rarely get selected.

4. Just because someone is an attorney it does not mean they are intelligent. I have seen several attorneys who could not formulate intelligent sentences in the jury selection process.

5. Some specific judges make their decisions based on ego, or their politics. The actual rule of law gets lost in the process.

Our judicial system is not perfect, but it is better than what exists in many other countries. However I would never feel safe if being a defendant in our current system.

__________________
Have guns...will shoot'em.

I am LEO in a sense, as I was (am retired) from the judiciary side of the house.

That presents some interesting points of view as a potential juror.

1) I have NEVER made any effort to wriggle my way out of jury duty. That is a crime, as I see it, not a lack of intelligence.

2) When asked about the death penalty, I express my public opinion that it is too rarely applied, with too many excuses to delay it.

3) Yes, I have had the opportunity and obligation to decide punishment for individuals accused of a crime.

4) If you are illegally in the US, I consider you a criminal. If you do something illegal while in the US, you are simply piling on to your status as a criminal.

Needless to say, I am rarely selected for a jury. But to really screw up the thread, when I was on a jury for a known serial criminal, we had to let him go, for some horrible errors on the part of the prosecutor. He was freed, but killed by LE in the commission of another crime some few weeks after.

Sleep with that.

Many years ago...

I was once screened for a murder trial in which the defendant was a gang member. As part of the screening, I had to fill out a huge questionnaire. Oh goody, now a gang member knows my full name, my home address, and everything else about me. As someone who grew up in the sedate suburbs, I found that to be disturbing.

In an unrelated incident, right before the trial, a police officer was eating dinner in a restaurant, when a gang member walked in and shot him dead.

The trial was delayed. In light of current events, they apparently couldn't find a full jury that would be impartial with a known gang member.

I have been called four times, and served twice. Once for the County, and the other one Federal. They were quite different, and both were extremely interesting. I must say, that I actually enjoyed the process. I thought I would get out the last time. One of the lawyers asked us if any had any negative and/or unfair dealings with the legal system. So, naturally, I had to tell my horror story. Afterwards, I thought surely they wouldn't choose me, and was stunned to be the first one picked.

Go figure. BTW, two convictions.

__________________
PC, censorship
with a smile.

-As an engineer, or one who bases decisions based on black or white (No grey areas), as soon as I stated my occupation on the questionnaire, I knew I would get a peremptory challenge from the defense team. My wife who is an RN, has been chosen for two capital murder trials. I guess the defense felt she would be sympathetic. They were wrong.

-Former law enforcement inquires are usually verbal during the jury panel interrogation. As soon as I hold up my hand and give them the name of my police department, I know that I'm going home. They don't always ask, though.


_______________________
I don't have Alzheimer's- My wife had me tested.

Been called in 3 times. Never even got to the point where the lawyers ask you questions. Actually wouldn't have minded serving once just to see what it was like. I think now at 71 I'm over the age limit. They probably figger I'm senile. (they could be right)

Let's hope they don't decide to vote. See my signature.
_______________________
I don't have Alzheimer's- My wife had me tested.