Should Arizona schools still teach cursive writing?

This article is in today's Arizona Republic Newspaper.....Should cursive writing be taught???

Well, how is a person going to be able to read what is written in cursive, if they don't know how to write it themselves?

How is a person supposed to sign a Christmas card, or birthday card, (providing they do in the first place) Print their name?

How does one sign a check....Yep sometimes a person does still need to sign their name to a check... Or sign their name on one of those card readers at the check out. Print their name, instead of writing it?

IMO. yes cursive writing should be taught...One of these years, there isn't going to be a computer to write anything. Typewriters have gone by the wayside....

What's left?

As well as cursive hand writing, I sure wish that English 101, 102, and maybe 103-4-and 5 would be taught.....It sure would be nice to be able to read something. Even a so called newspaper editor should know how to construct a sentence, or even spell it correctly. (But many don't)

Do you have one of those "Closed Caption" things on your TV? Turn it one some day, and watch how bad the spelling is in that.

Grrrrr....It's bad enough that a lot of...younger....and I say anything newer than 1940, can't read or WRITE, but they can't even talk in a coherent manner.


"With a "STROKE" of the pen". etc. etc.

Ok, so much for my pet peeve and rant for the day. I'll go to my room, until I can come out, and not fly off the handle.


WuzzFuzz

The only D I ever got in school was cursive writing in the 3rd grade.Folks were pissed!
Does anyone write anymore?

I tried cursive writing on this site but it all gets changed into ****'s

Do you ever write a note on a birthday card? Make up a grocery list? Jot down a friends address and phone number? Mark contents information on a package you put in the freezer? Write down the actual load information on a quantity of handloads you put in a bag or box so you or someone else will know what they are next month or next year when you want to shoot them?

Removing cursive from the schools is a continuing of the "dumbing down" of America.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Fifth grade for me. All A's, and a D in penmanship. Nowadays I print everything but my signature, because I can barely read my own handwriting. I still have some of my high school papers I did in cursive and wonder how the teachers managed to figure out what I was trying to say. Every form that needs to be filled out by hand is specified to print in block letters and to not use cursive for just that reason.

My mother and step-mother both have very nice cursive, and when I get a card I can easily read it. Step-mom has never owned a computer, and never will. Everything from her is hand written. But they come from a different generation, when young ladies were expected to have pretty handwriting.

I think it should still be taught, though. You should be able to write a proper sentence without the use of spell and grammar check. When you rely too often on the technology your ability to function without it atrophies like an unused muscle.

Yeah, if you can't read cursive, how can you read the Consti-
tution and the Bill of Rights? Talk about getting the mushroom
treatment.

If cursive falls by the wayside, and our kids are only taught
printing and computer typing, they will not be able to learn
about their rights and freedoms as guaranteed in the Bill of
Rights. The narrative on a computer can be altered to suit the
needs of a ruling class that doesn't have America's best in-
terests at heart. Something to think about.

My writing is still illegible.One of my biggest mistakes was not learning how to type in high school.Who knew that TAs weren't about to read chicken scratches.

Can't read/write cursive
Can't drive a stick
Can't make change

Let's see...trying to think of other endangered skills.

Running a trap line?

Like all kids of the fifties, I was taught cursive. I wrote in cursive until I hit high school. Then I took drafting, and spent the first month or two learning how to print. How to print well.

I found I preferred printing, and have been printing ever since. Couldn't even begin to guess how many times I've been complimented on my printing. Other than signing my name, I can barely remember how to write in cursive anymore. Amazing I've survived the last forty some years using printing as my primary method of written communication, eh wot?

So we are now down to two R's?

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Not in jail.

There's gonna be math ?! Im going back to the woods

I never had good penmanship. It has got extremely bad as I aged. I have developed the shakes.

Personally I don't care if people 'write' or print. To me it is more important to know how to spell and make use of the language so that it can be understood and thoughts can be correctly conveyed.

They--The Government-- want everything on an electronic device so they have access to it. A hand written letter or file would be very hard for them to censor.
You know we were told about this happening way back in grade school and we didn't believe it. I never thought I'd live long enough to see it.

Very punny!

I've heard from people who head HR departments in large Ca-
sinos here in Las Vegas who have called the talk radio show
I listen to in the afternoons during the week. They say job
applicants fill out the employment application like they would
text their friends. One example is using the letter "U" instead
of "you" in their application.

This country is screwed! Not only can't our kids read cursive,
they can't even write a coherent sentence. Yet, we are asked
as tax payers to throw more money at education. Give me a
break!

I know I curse to myself when I have to do much of it.

Public education in this country has its problems.My more successful friends solved it by living in good school districts and/or sending their kids to private schools.One just needs to make a good living to do this..and a good education to make that living...wait a minute...

Can't change a tire or do BASIC motor vehicle checks like air, oil, tranny.

Gut a fish. Or clean a small game animal or fowl.

Safely use basic hand tools.

I can not agree with you more.

The Center on Literacy said that in Philadelphia, over half of the adult population—an estimated 550,000 individuals—are considered low literate. This means they would struggle to fill out a form such as a job application or follow written instructions.

I have a hard time believing those figures.

I am ashamed of them. Yet the same can be said of many American big cities. I am merely a high school graduate but read nearly a hundred books a year. So you can imagine how shocked I am by this. How did this happen?

Sad, very sad statement about our country.

Probably not a good idea to drop it but I gave up on cursive many years ago. Couldn't read my own writing. Print everything but my name.

Can't read analog instruments (like clocks).
Can't rebuild a carburetor.
Can't even cook.

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No good deed goes unpunished.

Not just in the USA. The "Dark Age" (between the fall of the Roman Empire and the Florentine Renaissance) had causation that is similar to contemporary norms. At least we have better methods of recording of "what once was" for the next renaissance. Always a bright side. Joe

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Wisdom chases me; I'm faster

Most of my high-school students do not use cursive when they get to me; they learned it in third grade and never had to use it again. I do all that I can to get them to start doing so, even going so far as to suggest they start their first semester using cursive in their least-word-intensive class (normally math), then adding another class each semester until they are using cursive in all of their classes.

Do most do so? No.

Do many come back from their first semester of college and tell me they wish they had followed my advice? Yes.

I failed cursive writing in school because I wrote too many curses.

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I'm with the banned ...

I learned to write in school, and I was born after the 1940 date specified by the OP. I constantly use cursive in notes to myself, in jotting down details of phone conversations, etc.

I have about 5,000 published articles and most were originally written in longhand before I typed them. I wanted the revisions and editing to all be finished before I typed. Hasn't worked; I edit as I type if a better word fits a certain sentence, etc.

The value of being able to write was brought home to me last night as I watched a 1956 movie made in Kenya, during the Mau-Mau Emergency. A safari "boy" was being signed on for a trip and the safari firm owner told him to mark his "X" where his signature was needed. He said, "Bwana, I can write!" He then managed about the first four letters (printed) of his name, then made his "X"... How would you feel if your kids were at that level of writing? I think some taught here today probably are at that level!

Fortunately, both of my grown children are very articulate and write splendidly. My daughter teaches other teachers how to teach better. My son (a literal genius) has written an excellent account of the Battle of Hastings for an Arms and Armour site on the Net. I've encouraged him to write professionally, but he has other interests. But he CAN write when he wants to. His wife is a geneticist who has written important scientific papers. No one in my extended family has ever done such things as to spell "knives" as "knifes", which I see often on this board and similar ones. Poor writing skills are not limited to the present generation!

When I began writing fiction I had to brush up a little on my punctuation skills, mainly because the characters spoke in quotations, of course. And I pay attention to avoiding split infinitives, etc. Thankfully, this came relatively easy, once I determined to refresh those skills. If in doubt, I have a novel by my computer and check for a similar sentence to see how the author punctuated it. And I have a dictionary and a thesaurus. I think some today see that last word and figure that if it ends in, "saurus", it is probably something that expired by the end of the Cretaceous Period.

The late author Donald Hamilton was born in Sweden, where he eventually returned. But he was American from about age six until he left many years later. He was a stickler for correct English, and was so appalled by the way some speak and write that he had his fictional character Matt Helm comment on it. He wrote that Matt's spy boss was also a stickler and that one of his pet peeves was people saying "presently" when they mean "at present." The terms are very different, but I'd bet a full 12 oz. can of Dr. Pepper that about 90% of modern Americans don't know the difference.

I can't say more here, but I think our schools began taking a nosedive about 1965 and that many things have been phased out, including a proper concept of geography and history. If you ask most young people to find, say, the Ukraine, on a globe, they're lost. How can we properly interpret news and advise our representatives and news editors of our feelings if we don't even know where many places are, let alone the basis for the conflicts there?!

The idea that we should let ignorant groups influence our schools to teach at a dimmer level to accommodate them is disgusting. The idea should be to bring those individuals, if possible, to a better level of knowledge. If they can't hack it, they should fail. There are jobs that they can do, unless reading skills are required. Sending functional illiterates to college is ridiculous, but it happens, routinely. I have, BTW, got two brothers. Neither knows much about history or geography. One (a software engineer!) was surprised to learn that I know where Tasmania is, when he mentioned having seen a movie set there. He couldn't name any Australian states at all! And neither can the wait staff or managers at the local Outback Steakhouse... The other brother writes letters to the newspaper and misspells at least a few words in each letter. I know this because he e-mails them to me, proud of his writing. I think the editors correct them. But they'd respect the points that he makes more if he could spell! When a letter is about gun control, for instance, I think it helps to be able to spell and to use good English. Otherwise, one simply reinforces the image of gun owners being ignorant rednecks! I'd like to dispel that stereotype, but it does have a considerable basis in fact. And it hurts our cause!

You struck a sore nerve here too, so rant on, if you care to. I just wish that it'd do more good. BTW, spellcheckers aren't infallible, especially if you ever use foreign or scientific words. (Yes, those are also foreign, either Greek or Latin.) But my spellchecker on this computer was ignorant of many gun terms and brand names. I have had to add MANY words to its vocabulary. What if I couldn't spell them, myself?!

Ever see one of those newspaper ads where some lout wants to sell a "Mouser" rifle? In fairness, the person who took the ad was probably the rotten speller.

We're probably just ranting here to blow off steam. (I, for one, need to.) And the usual members will probably make sarcastic comments.

But if this topic gets some here to think more about their language skills, it's been worth it. Both they and the nation will benefit.

Even if I don't use cursive writing much (I print, the old draftsman legacy) but I'm glad to be ABLE to do it if I want. I remember doing it in school but I don't think we spent THAT much time on it.

Question: Is there a cursive form of Russian or Chinese or Japanese??

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

The change came when my oldest child was in school.His third grade lessons were in keyboarding ('91).

Back in 1960



Everyone received one of these, everyone.

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Doesn't hasta call me Johnson

So when did English teachers come along that would accept a paper that was printed or typed? When I was in school, after 2nd grade, you didn't print.

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Wayne
Torn & Frayed

A long time ago.My kids had to type their work for school.They're 30 and 23 years old.They went to public schools in a college town.

I was born in 1955 a natural left-hander. I hated cursive writing then and still do. It is the bane of every portsider out there. It was invented when it was considered heretical to use one's left hand and my older brother was beaten for attempting to do so. Read that last sentence again - my brother beaten for attempting to write left-handed. Cursive writing simply cannot be executed correctly by the left handed person.

Need to learn cursive so you can read cursive? In the 60's they told me the same thing about Latin. Fat lot of good that class did me.

But I do agree with the sentiment. One needs to learn to write cursive precisely as much as one needs to be able to overhaul a carburetor.

Sorry, guys. It's the 21st century. Put your fountain pens next to your slide rules in the oddity bin.

The educational system we have now simply makes me wonder what is being taught to our kids. In my area they actually graduate without being exposed to the Constitution, Bill of Rights, or the Declaration of Independence. I was exposed to them as well as Civics and Problems of Democracy. These topics actually made an individual think, as well as prepare themselves for living and succeeding in a life in America. I sometimes now wonder how so much time gets spent in school with so few results. Things certainly have changed since I was in school in the '50's and 60's. It seems that parents have relinquished all responsibility and school boards, government, and attorneys have bound the hands of teachers, many of which have given up. Another interesting fact is that there are so many 'administrators' now..... that's where so much money goes; to administrate and oversee a failing system. Cut the administration and add good teachers. That may help.

Cut the administration - cut out the union - and add good teachers.

As a retired educator I would just like to say that penmanship is NOT what's wrong with American public education. Good grief it's just handwriting. Spelling and mechanics are extremely important, but just try turning in a hand written paper in college, or even high school for that matter.
I deducted a full grade point for hand written papers.
See how fast the job offers (don't) come pouring in after you turn in a hand written resume. I don't care how pretty it is.
Keyboarding skills are required. Penmanship, while a pleasant pastime, not so much.

Yes. It should be taught, along with the other basics.
That said, my writing is atrocious and getting worse all the time.
I'm actually thinking of buying a basic elementary cursive book and starting again.

This subject is number two on my list right behind the math kids are being taught today. I'll show my age here. When I went to school it was penmanship. I can't recall ever hearing the word "cursive" We had to do a lot of repetitive tasks called "The Palmer Method" Look it up and you'll see what it is. We were taught the proper way to hold a pen or pencil. Now when I see a younger person holding a pen or pencil it looks as though they have strangle hold on it. People from my era all tend to write in a similar fashion since we all learned the same technique.

I think it should still be taught so people can continue to read and write our written language. Like most everyone else has already said, signatures will still be required on a lot of different transactions other than checks. Anyone who has been to a real estate closing can attest to that.

My late father was left - handed and wrote cursive just fine. As a petroleum geologist and later as an oil industry editor, he often made notes and left them for others.
He sometimes wrote letters and addressed cards.

Where was your brother beaten? Did he attend Catholic schools? When Capt. Roger Donlon, US Army Special Forces, was awarded perhaps the first Medal of Honor of the Vietnam War, he commented that he was more afraid of the nuns in school than he was of the Viet Cong! I think he was being at least half serious!

Does that sort of thing still happen? Actually, a nasty second grade teacher did hit me several times with a ruler, in public schools. I've forgotten my offenses, but they were surely trivial. I've never been the sort to get in trouble. But come to think of it, I did have a teacher tell my parents about me drawing pictures of guns in class or showing them in boxes on camels in a caravan. Hey, I liked adventure books and movies. Not every kid who draws a picture of a gun is a violent narcisstic sociopath.

Theres a reason I didn't teach my kid to build a house from the ground up.Its a great skill,but so what? It would be useful if it was 1965 in Colorado Things change ever faster.

Like labworm, we were taught the palmer penmanship method by the nuns. One person a month got a penmanship award for the best handwriting and poor penmanship was not tolerated. I still have scars on my knuckles from those blasted metal edge rulers the nuns wielded. I get an occasional compliment on my script to this day. Good reading and writing skills are vital and should be taught in the schools.

Texas Star,,,and others, you might like my parting shot to the fellow that took over the ***'t managers position, just before I retired. I gave him a honest to goodness fountain pen. If he was going to sign official documents, then he ought to do it with flair. Not with some ole everyday Government ball point pen.

I did the pre-hire flight check on him, and we became good friends. We'd exchange stuff for Christmas, and birthdays...He's one of the few good guys left.

We still meet from time to time and have a good cigar together.

I now return you back to the subject of cursive writing.......


WuzzFuzz

Another catholic school survivor. The nuns beat me half-to-death trying to get me to switch. They gave up around 3rd grade because they'd need to kill me the rest of the way. I did master cursive and still use it from time to time. Computers made it obsolete. Digital clocks made regular clocks obsolete too and I can't tell you how many times a student asks what time it is while standing next to an "old school" clock. Joe

__________________
Wisdom chases me; I'm faster

Just to keep this S&W related, I think Roy Jinks says that he can't read some handwritten ledger entries in company records!

For a brief time, I guarded a pharmacy that had been held up several times. The pharmacist sometimes asked me if I could read a doctor's prescriptions. If neither of us could make out his writing, the pharmacist had to call the dispensing clinic and ask what was meant. Doctors are notorious for poor writing skills. I think that is frequently due to arrogance.

I think it's more like, him and many others like him, won't take three extra seconds worth of time to do it right.

That's called lazy.

WuzzFuzz

Wuzz Fuzz-

Until the eighth grade, we did use fountain pens in Dallas schools. (late 1950's.) I think mine was a Parker 61. Later, when fountain pens became a symbol of elitism and luxury, I bought better Parkers and I have a couple of Cross fountain pens, too.

But they're a little messy and finding ink is now limited to some office supply stores. Indeed, I have to buy ballpoint refills there now! The latter shocks and disgusts me! I own disposable ballpoint pens, but treasure my fine Parker and Cross ballpoints. I carry and use them. My son liberated my Mont Blanc, but I really prefer other brands. I mentioned this to author David Lindsey as he signed my copies of his books with a Mont Blanc fountain pen. He said that he had to use that pen; his wife gave it to him! BTW, he's the only man I've known to use brown ink.

Sadly, the last Cross ballpoint that I bought was made in China! But it seems up to traditional Cross standards.

Oh: the problem with using a fountain pen to sign official documents and forms is that it doesn't do well on carbon copies. You could bend the nib! Now that replacement nibs are hard to find for many pens and expensive if found, I use my fountain pens less.

Did you ever stop and think that this may in fact be one of the reasons for no longer teaching cursive?
I for one still write items such as personal notes in cards in cursive.
I can to some degree read and comprehend printed German. This is somewhat essential if you collect German firearms. However; I cannot read the German "Sutterlin" script which was their form of cursive writing which is now obsolete. I have an older German friend who translates it for me.
I suspect our grandchildren will be in a similiar situation in the future.

I said it before and I'll say it again;

Me personally, I can barely hold a pen in my gimpy right hand anymore let alone write with it. When I do need to write something, I use both hands and write in block letters.
I was taught cursive and can read it but ain't no way I can write it.

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Keep on Chooglin'

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Keep on Chooglin'

We was at a flea market out here and there was a young fellow in charge of a cash box.
I had to show him how to make change for us.
We lost power in town for a week or so but the local Dollar General stayed open. People my age and older were running it. Making change and writing the purchases down in cursive.

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Keep on Chooglin'