Who remembers when the design was submitted for the Vietnam memorial. A lot of people didn't like it. They said it was 'dark', 'black' and 'underground'. Well, it's been over 20 years now since it was built. I haven't been to D.C. since they built it so I've never seen it for real. But here is my take on it....

I've never met anybody that came away from there that was not affected very deeply by the experience.

What do you think?

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

If you go to DC, visit it at night. I can't explain the feeling. You'll have to experience it yourself.

I read in the Best of The Best American Poetry the following poem by Yusef Komunyakaa, a Bronze Star recipient in Viet Nam from Bogalusa, Louisiana. I thought it was the best work in the entire volume and he won the Pulitzer Prize for his book of poems on being in Viet Nam. But until I saw the memorial first hand and talked to the veterans that work their daily, I never understood what he was talking about in the poem. Many of those men that served there float between that experience and our current world--not really here but not really there either. With all the trouble many vets face many maybe never made it all the way back.

Facing It
Yusef Komunyakaa

My black face fades,
hiding inside the black granite.
I said I wouldn’t,
dammit: No tears.
I’m stone. I’m flesh.
My clouded reflection eyes me
like a bird of prey, the profile of night
slanted against morning. I turn
this way--the stone lets me go.
I turn that way--I’m inside
the Vietnam Veterans Memorial
again, depending on the light
to make a difference.
I go down the 58,022 names,
half-expecting to find
my own in letters like smoke.
I touch the name Andrew Johnson;
I see the booby trap’s white flash.
Names shimmer on a woman’s blouse
but when she walks away
the names stay on the wall.
Brushstrokes flash, a red bird’s
wings cutting across my stare.
The sky. A plane in the sky.
A white vet’s image floats
closer to me, then his pale eyes
look through mine. I’m a window.
He’s lost his right arm
inside the stone. In the black mirror
a woman’s trying to erase names:
No, she’s brushing a boy’s hair.

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Possum—The other white meat!

That's very powerful. I've never been to the memorial, but just seeing it on video or in still pictures is moving.

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Oh well, what the hell.

I think you double-posted the thread.

One of my High School classmates was on the last chopper out of Viet Nam in '75, another friend was there for 5 tours starting in '63. Neither of them has been to see the Memorial. I was in D.C. for another reason about 6 years ago, with my son (a Marine veteran) walked with me as we paid our respects to 58 thousand of my contemporaries. If you're going to be in D.C. anyway, Take an hour and view the Memorial. And spend some time at the Combat Nurses Memorial right across from it. I have spent time on about 15 battlefields from Gettysburg to the Little Bighorn and none of them startled me like these two Memorials. Ivan

RW,

I believe that this information is correct:

December 29, 1980 – 2,573 register for design competition with a prize of $50,000.

March 30, 1981 – 1,421 designs submitted. The designs are displayed at an airport hangar at Andrews Air Force Base for the selection committee, in rows covering more than 35,000 square feet (3,300 m2) of floor space. Each entry was identified by number only, to preserve the anonymity of their authors. All entries were examined by each juror; the entries were narrowed down to 232, then 39. Finally, the jury selected entry number 1026.

January 1982 – The Three Soldiers was added to the design as a result of controversy over Lin's design.

March 11, 1982 – The design is formally approved.

March 26, 1982 – Ground is formally broken.

October 13, 1982 – The U.S. Commission of Fine Arts approves erection of a flagpole to be grouped with sculptures.

November 13, 1982 – Memorial dedication after a march to its site by thousands of Vietnam War veterans. As a National Memorial it was administratively listed on the National Register of Historic Places the same day.

November 1984 – The Three Soldiers statue is dedicated.

I was actually there on November 13th when it was first opened to the public. There were also many other Vietnam veterans there that day, yet it was very, very quiet. It can't be described in words. For many years it was among the "Most Visited" sites in Washington, D.C. I believe that it is now in the top five.

Ivan is correct.

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That's what we do!

I still go downtown on occasion when it is slow in my district and walk it at night.

It is something to see if you have not been.... pictures do not do it justice

Looking back now, it's hard to understand why there was such controversy about the design at the time. Even the designer's heritage was brought into the discussion, and one political commentator went so far as to criticize Lin's concept for what he called its resemblance to a North Vietnamese Army rank insignia, implying the designer was making a veiled insult to America.

Now, as we can see with the benefit of hindsight, the design was brilliantly conceived and fully realized. Putting 58,000 names on a war memorial was masterful, especially considering how divisive the war had been and the internal wounds it had caused the country. That personal touch is what speaks so eloquently to those who visit there. We remember these soldiers as human beings, with lives and families and hopes and dreams, sacrificed on what Lincoln had called "the altar of liberty."

It is everything a "war memorial" should be: a vivid reminder of the cost, in so many ways, to our young people and national treasure when we enter into that deadly enterprise.

The only thing that would make it any better would be to cause us always to try to find another way to resolve conflict, and for war to be a last resort of self-defense.

Lest we forget.

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Ukraine -- now more than ever

Well said, Vigil. And God bless all our veterans, those who fell, and those who made it home. God bless you all.

At first, I refused to go see the memorial, even the travelling wall. Then I had no choice, I was put in charge of the honor guard for the visiting wall. It was such a moving experience, it was actually a release of pent-up emotions. I stayed with the wall for three days, voluntarily. A couple of years later when the travelling wall came to a nearby town, I again visited with it. If you are a Viet Nam vet, a relative of a KIA or you lost a friend or loved one in Nam, you have got to see the wall. Don't let fear or emotions hold you back. The wall will make you whole.

I did my tour in Vietnam from '70 to '71, and find that today my memories of that year are somewhat muddled with names and faces of those I knew mixed and confused and stories in my head not clear between what I remember and what I think I remember. I was one of those who thought the design was wrong and irreverent, until I visited the memorial. I stood there overwhelmed with emotion, and with the sight of 58 thousand names of individuals facing me. Too many to grasp and to appreciate how lucky I am to have come home unharmed. I still have the faces of some of those that I knew who did not come home, but can't remember some of the names. My visit to the memorial was years ago, and I found it so overwhelmingly emotional that I am not sure I can return to see it again.

When you see those names, remember that they fell in service to a noble ideal of preserving freedom for an ally of the United States, and of stopping what seemed like the growing threat of world-wide communist domination. Of course there were Vietnamese who wanted victory for the communist north, but the Vietnamese that I met all knew and appreciated that we were there fighting for their liberty and lives, flawed though their country was. I get angry and almost sick to my stomach hearing people still calling it an unjust war and complimenting the draft-dodgers and anti-American protestors for ending the war. All they did was prolong the war by giving comfort to the enemy, who never beat us but outlasted us as Americans grew too weary to see it through to true victory. Those named on the wall did not give their lives in vain, and it is just and right that we honor them forever as we do all of those who have fought and died for our country, freedom and honor.

It is most impressive. Even The Moving Wall, without the gash into the earth, is very impressive.

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Yes, indeed I did. I asked mods to delete the other one.

Thanks

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Beautifully expressed, Vito. Thank you for answering your country's call to serve, and for doing what you were asked to do over there. Thanks, too, to all of you veterans of SE Asia as well. We are grateful for your personal sacrifice and your doing your duty at a time when you did not receive the appreciation you deserved. "Better late than never" doesn't seem at all sufficient, but we honor your service.

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Ukraine -- now more than ever

I suggest everyone who knew someone go to the wall. My cousin's name was right, but state of origin was wrong. They can make corrections only if they know about it. I have to go back to see if they corrected his.

As a Canadian visiting D.C for the first time in the early 90's I was awe struck by the memorial. No other monument that I have seen in North America compares. A solem place that brings a tear to the eye and the realization of the magnitude of the loss of that war. The personal touch of relatives and friends of the fallen leaving notes and items by their names. Very powerful. God bless all that served.

I went soon after it opened. Too many names that I recognized, and every one brought back a face in my mind that I'll never see again. I haven't been back since.

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Minimize the variables

I spent most of 1972 in the Gulf of Tonkin as a member of 1st Battalion 9th Marines as a part of Battalion Landing Team. I have always considered my self as a Vietnam Era Vet rather than a Vietnam veteran since I didn't get shot at or spend time in country. I had to be ordered to wear my Vietnamese Service and Campaign ribbons as I didn't feel I did anything to earn them. I really don't what that has to do with this thread except that I have always had strong feelings about the whole thing. I went to the National Guard after 8 years active Marine Corp. In 1990 our annual training was at Ft. Stuart Georgia and I managed to get released at the end of training so I could go up the coast and see old friends on the way home. My first stop was at Quantico , Virginia. I had really mixed feelings about going to see the Wall. I didn't think I was going to like it but knew I'd regret it later if I didn't go while I was that close. I went and I couldn't get away from it fast enough.

Mineral Wells Texas has a slightly smaller duplicate on permanent display at their Vietnam War Memorial. It's just as moving as the one in DC, only more intimate.

The memorial is dark and ominous. It is severe in its delivery. It sits crouched and imposing in the night shadows. There are no cherubs, no fancy florets, no gilding, no scroll work. It almost has a raw and angry feel to it. It stares back at you with somber, heavy eyes and whispers "look upon my feet. Look at medals and pieces of hearts that were left here by those who feel guilt for surviving.
The wall was designed to invoke crushing sadness, tear welling pride for the fallen and unashamed love for those that wore and wear the uniform of this country.

That is what I took from it.
Your servant

DaNang class of 72

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Music/Sports/Beer fan

It drew me like a magnet after it first opened and I have been back once. It is indeed a very special place. There was an episode of Magnum where Thomas first visits the wall to see the name of a relative. The episode is called Going Home and it is very moving also.

I served during 1965-7 but wasn't sent to Nam. A significant number of high school and college buddies did....I believe they all survived. They are still paying the price of their service today....titanium knees from jumping out of Hueys or desperately bad PTSD. The closest friend I grew up with and I were drafted the same day but went different directions. He went to Nam as a grunt and loved it...Silver Star and Purple Heart...he extended to the end of his hitch. War effects us in many different ways.

The memorial is beyond brilliant. It puts our focus where it should be....the human cost. It is almost more than I can bear to look at all those people we lost.

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Bob.
SWCA 1821

I haven't been to D.C. but had the opportunity to visit the traveling wall when it came to my area. It was a very moving experience, especially when seeing some of my buddies names.

Given the bungled nature of that conflict, I think it is quite appropriate. In Budapest they have the House of Terror Museum, the former HQ of the Communist secret police. It displays thousand of mug shots of victims.

Like I said, I'll have to see the Vietnam memorial to see how it affects me, but it has to be right up there is the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. I was holding it together pretty good until I read the little bitty sign that explained how the guard always switched his weapon to the outside to symbolize protecting them from any possible threat from outside. I had to turn away from the crowd for a few minutes to compose myself.


Here is a video when there were some loud laughers in the crowd the guard left the mat, and straight as an arrow in a commanding voice to no one in particular said something about "paying tribute with SILENCE and RESPECT." He turned and took up the position at the end of the mat and began his tours again. Nobody argued.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsdHxUXf2CE

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

What irks me immensely is the fact that now it seems every memorial for every cause steals the vision of Maya Lin by including the names of the dead.

Be safe.

The Long Gray Line by Rick Atkinson is the story of the USMA class of '66. It covers the controversy of the memorial's design very well.

The Long Gray Line: The American Journey of West Point's Class of 1966: Rick Atkinson: 9780805091229: Amazon.com: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51q9ahknC5L.@@AMEPARAM@@51q9ahknC5L

I can't recall if I posted this sometime in the past, so....

My new bride and I went to DC in the Spring of '86, as part of our honeymoon. I had no intention of visiting the Wall.

But, as we walked the Memorials, it seemed I was drawn to it. I spent an hour or so looking at and for names. First time my wife ever saw me cry.

Bob

Having grown up in the D.C. area one of the blessings was being able to spend a day in the Smithsonian, Arlington National Cemetery, or any of the other museums and monuments here any time I wanted. It took several years before I was able to go the Wall. It touches a place deep in you. More recently, I was honored to participate in the first Gathering of Eagles. There were thousands of us there to protect the Wall from the anti-war protesters. I heard a mounted Park Police officer say that he was there...not to protect us from them but them from us. If they had tried to deface the Wall as they had threatened to do it would have been bad day at black rock.

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NRA Cert. Inst. RSO

I was there in 2010, with the Run For The Wall / Rolling Thunder.
It needed to be done.
It broke my heart.

I've always wanted to take my boy to D.C. I just realized from some of what ya'll have been telling that I have been 'avoiding' the wall. I'll have to get over that.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

It took a lot of years but I finally did it several years ago. Now, of course, I'm sorry I waited so long.

I've been back three times to say hello to Mike, Earl, and Larry. Each time I bring two of the little airplane bottles of Jack Daniels. I set one on the ledge for them and I drink the other.

Dusty in here all of a sudden......

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... a little behind in my work

I visited The Wall in 1999 while in the DC area. Two decorated vets insisted on taking me, once I mentioned it was the first place I desired to visit on my first trip to DC. I was a Vietnam ERA vet, but never got orders for there, but I have friends and relatives on that wall.

Both of my "escorts" told me how tough it is to go, but that vets don't need to go alone. Both shed tears each time, and I did too. I needed to go. All vets need to go . . . but some will never be able to do so . . . for some went through so much death and lost so many friends that it would be too crushing for them. Still . . . they need to go. It is raw, it is real . . . but it is always healing. GONE, NOT FORGOTTEN.

Austere, powerful, moving. See it at night. Its like the old saying about Vietnam, "if you haven't been there, you wouldn't understand." Also, the Korean War memorial is absolutely amazing. Astounding at night, be sure to visit during the day to see the magic in that wall.

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War Eagle!!!

Last month we had the Vietnam Moving Wall visit my town of Dublin, GA from Thursday - Sunday. Although "only" half size, IMHO it still has the power and emotion of "The Wall" in DC.

As a former Army bandsman of that era, I was asked to participate in opening and closing ceremonies. However, the wall kept drawing me back, and nights were truly special. 24 hours a day the organizers had folks there helping in all ways one can imagine . . . and the wall was alive with those coming to say "hi."

I work with two guys who received Silver Stars and did multiple tours. One made it . . . the other told me later he DROVE there, but simply couldn't go . . . too many faces, too many memories during his three combat tours. I NOW UNDERSTAND.

HOWEVER . . . in my facebook writings about the wall I was stunned by an old high school friend writing me that she HAD been married, in '71 (we graduated hs in '69), but her husband in the AF died in action when his plane crashed. She never remarried.

She went on to tell me she'd gone to DC four times . . . but the pain was too severe to go to the wall. I encouraged her and invited her to come to Dublin if she could as a good step to being able to "see him" in DC one day, although she lived in Florida 200miles away.

THE GREAT NEWS . . .
Sunday she wrote me. Four friends drove her here. She told me she cried a whole box of tissues, but she made it to him on the wall. She ALSO MET FOUR AF VETS WHO FLEW WITH HER HUSBAND HERE! They talked, and remembered him . . . and told her stories of her husband over there. SHE TOLD ME SHE WAS SO GLAD SHE CAME!

I'm so glad it went too. VETS . . . if you can, it will be a good thing to go, even if it is a traveling wall!

Here's a photo I shot at the event, one of many . . . around midnight one evening here in Dublin . . .

Another photo I made at the Moving Wall last month in Dublin . . .


Truly, it honors those on the wall to visit. "Gone, Not Forgotten."

I went back to D.C. to attend a union officers school held at the George Meany School in Silver Springs, M.D. The school lasted a week and on the last day they said that they were going to take us all to D.C. to see the International Headquarters. I mentioned that since we were going downtown it would be great to get a chance to see the Vietnam Memorial, they said "I'm not sure if we are going to have the time to visit the International office and meet with the President of the union and see the memorial." I said "If you are going to reward me with something, drop me off near the monument and I will make my way back to school or to the International office on my own." A couple of fellow Vietnam Vets also stood up and echoed my sentiment, they ended up swinging by the monument, dropping us off and standing by while we quickly took it in. It was worth it in every sense of the word, we didn't have alot of time and didn't want to take advantage of their courtesy, had the time to both see the monument and the statue, everybody that went was glad we raised a ruckus.

I have been to the Traveling Wall. When I stepped up to the wall I could not catch my breath, I thought I was having a heart attack. I touched the names of friends and high school class mates. I haven't been to DC I don't think I could.

I have spent 46 years coming to terms with Viet Nam. I am proud of my service and if I could do it again I would.

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Carpriver.

Went there several years ago and I am so glad I did. Seeing the names of friends and family on the wall brought back many memories, some good and some not so good. Yes, I shed more than one tear walking along that wall and seeing the statue but I didn't feel bad about it because there were a lot of tears being shed that day.

There was one homeless guy there and the Vets giving out information said that he came almost every day. I guess some never really come home even if they are here.

If you haven't seen it you really should. It's a good time to say good bye to friends that didn't make it and it seemed to lift a little burden off my shoulders the day I went. Maybe I'll go back one day but I don't know.

It is probably the most revered spot in Washington D.C. I have been to it three times. I did not know anyone who died though a few of my uncles served in Vietnam. They never talk about it.

I served as a TC in the Central Highlands during '69-'70, and at first thought the wall was meant to be a slap at VN veterans. I have since visited the Wall in DC and have to admit that I was moved by the experience.

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NRA Life, COTEP 640

I'm a Road Guard for Run For The Wall, I've escorted the group from Cali to the Memorial 18 times (97-2014).
I didn't serve in Vietnam, too young, but my service date barley puts me in the era. Growing up in a small rural town, I watch my friends older brothers graduate, leave for the military, and if they did return, they were significantly changed. Figured I was in for the same when I graduated. I witnessed the treatment of the returning vets and all the turmoil of the times. After enlisting, I caught grief from the in country vets because I didn't go, grief from the 'citizens' because I was wearing the uniform. It left me with some issues, not to the degree I've seen in some of the RFTW participants, but it still interfered with my life. RFTW helped me heal in a safe supportive environment and in return I've had the honor and privileged to escort many men down to the Memorial for their first visit. We shield our charges from prying eyes and tourist's cameras, trying to give them the privacy and support needed to get through the experience and hopefully find some peace.
The Memorial has become my friend over the years. A lot of my friends have passed, but I know the panels they visited and the who and carry on their traditions.

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SWCA #2817

Every politician who wants to go to war should be required to visit the Wall and read all of the names. Then go cast his/her vote.

I was a Marine from 1971 to 1975, no time in Vietnam, all in Arizona.

My first visit to the wall I was alone and began reading the names from its starting point. Not all of them, but at random as I walked its expanse. I knew one name there of a man from my hometown who never knew me, nor I him, other than by his name.

As I progressed on reading some of the names one thought kept coming into my head, "What would he/she had become if they had lived?" "Would they have been 'productive'? Had a happy life? What kind of family would they have created?"

That line of thought followed me to the end. I was appalled by the waste of such good men and women.

Years later I had my wife and daughter do the same thing, separately and alone. I did not tell them about my experience. Afterwards I asked them of what they thought. They had the same thoughts I did. "What would have these total strangers become if they had lived?"

Therefore, I think the politicians who want war should do the same. When they are done, with the knowledge they may have that the public does not; if they still think we should go to war then so be it.

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Have guns...will shoot'em.

Here's a lot of information about the wall on this sight.

Wall Information

You can also read names on the wall. To this day I haven't been able to bring myself to visit the wall. I do visit the web sight at least 3 or 4 times a week to view the persons that were born that date, and the ones that have died that day. I still have tears when I read the names. I also feel that as if I read their names they have not been forgotten.

I also feel sad that some of the names have very few comments. I guess their families don't know about it.

The misadventure ones really get me along with those murdered and the approximate 1,448 killed on their last day in country.

When we came back in the 60's and 70's I always wondered how those that died were chosen to give the ultimate sacrifice.

Maybe one day before I pass on I'll be able to bring myself to visit.

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Psalm 23:4

Those who gave their lives in service to their country should be remembered and this is a good way to do it. My visit to "The Wall" was an emotional one. Having said that, there are those, even today, who dismiss Viet Nam Vets' service as somehow less than honorable. I've been on the receiving end of that and is the reason I quit the VFW and will never join another veteran's group.

I was living in Northern Virginia when it was being reviewed for construction, and was starting at the University of Virginia School of Architecture about that time.

There was a huge debate about the concept, and whether it would be appropriate to honor our servicemen and women who gave their lives for our country.

I went there with my son's sixth grade trip to Washington DC about five years ago. Making the rubbing from my cousin's name on the Wall was one of the most memorable things about the trip.

"Freedom don't come free."

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Take your time, fast. J.Hughes

Is visiting the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier a "dark" or "black" experience? Participating in a salute at a veteran's funeral ? in 1995 at my town's Memorial Day Parade they read the names of those who fell in WWII. In a small New Jersey town I used to live in there is a plaque in the town's park to commemorate the one town resident who died in WWII-and he died on November 22, 1945. In many small French towns the war memorials list the names of those who didn't come back. I recall the dining in scene in "Chariots of Fire"-it shows a wooden wall with "1914-1918" and all the names.

The number of people in the cemeteries overseas is good for a discussion on its own.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

if you go to Europe of the planned stops should be one of the U.S. cemeteries. I have been to the cemetery in Luxembourg and like all of them a very solemn experience