This one is tearing me up on the inside, I just don't know how to handle this one.

About 6 years ago, my wife & I adopted a rescue Rottweiler. She is our 4th rottie, the other 3 got old and are in doggy heaven. This one was found abandoned with a litter of puppies, starving. None of the puppies made it. When we took her in, she was skin & bones, did not trust any people or other animals, and was really snarly and "guarded" food. But she took to me immediately.

It took a while, but we socialized her and worked with her every day. Back then we had 7 dogs and 4 cats, and a big house on 5 acres. She has been a great dog. Loves people, including small children, loves riding in the truck, doesn't need a leash ever, listens to every command. Possibly the best & smartest dog I've ever had.

Fast forward a couple of years. We had a cat named 8 Ball. He had a big ole 8 right on his side. He was a lot of fun, very acrobatic cat. Liked chasing insects & birds. One day he wandered off & never came back. I like to think that he found a happy home in a neighboring subdivision, and made a young family happy. That, or a bear got him. (This is when I lived in Alaska).

Fast forward to last week. I was perusing the local classifieds on FB, and I see this picture of a kitten with a great big 9 on his side. "Free kittens to good homes". What are the odds..... Showed the wife, called the lady, and piled into the truck. Drove an hour each way, and brought home "Niner".

This little guy is a lot of fun. When I get home from work, he greets me before the dogs do, when I'm taking off my boots. He comes to me by name when I call him over. When I wake up from sleeping, I find him sleeping against my arm, or the back of my neck. I've had cats before, but never really liked them that much. This one is different somehow. Anyways.....

Yesterday morning, while I was at work, my wife calls me. She's shaken & upset. She's on her way to the vet with a bleeding kitten. Apparently, she fed the dogs after I left for work. The cat got into my Rottweiler's food, and she grabbed him by the head and flung him across the room. My wife was horrified, the dog ran and hid, knowing she done a bad thing.

So my kitten is at the vet still, until Monday. His lower jaw broken, his skull crushed above his left eye, cheek crushed below his left eye, and left eye lower eyelid is bulged out. They wired his jaw & braced it with an interesting little contraption. They cleaned up his wounds & gave him some medications. He is being fed by a syringe.

I went with the wife to go check on him today. Man, he looks rough. As soon as I walked into that room he was climbing the door on the cage. Picked him up, and he just laid there purring. After a couple minutes, he climbed up to my shoulder and sat there for a while, leaning on my neck, purring. Then he decided it was play time. LOL, this cat looks like hell, and he wants to play. Go figure. The vet is impressed. They are going to keep him over the weekend to make sure he can eat & heal properly. They know better than I, what to watch for and what to do if something goes wrong. And his skull is very fragile, yet he likes to jump off things.

So now my moral dilemma, if it isn't already obvious. Shall I keep my rescued Rottweiler, or let her go? If I keep her, I need some ideas about training her in regards to protection of food. I don't want this type of thing to happen again, ever.

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-Roger

It's a dog/cat thing....if you're a cat..stay away from the dog's food

Man that's hard to say...one thing, though; cats are pretty smart, I doubt he'll let the rottie get within ten feet of him after that last experience!

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Lounge Lizard Extraordinaire

My dog, Sokie.


And here's Niner.


And here's Niner riding in the truck when we first picked him up. I've never seen a cat that liked riding.

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-Roger

They have behavior training for dogs. We rescued a neglected dog that didn't have any life for his first 2 years. He got leftovers if there were any and lived on a chain facing a brick wall. He'd never seen a treat or a toy. He needed work -- lots of work.

He's a totally different dog today. It required a behavior trainer -- not an obedience or trick trainer. He's almost 3 today and only has a few traits that need a bit more reining in. Find one and talk with them.

I have had a lot of pets, and I learned a powerful method. We don't punish unwanted or bad behavior. Instead, we reward the good behaviors and actions with love, petting, & playing. In this extreme, she did get spanked by Mom. She was so scared when it happened, that she pissed and crapped herself.

But I need help on this one. Not sure where I can find a behavioral trainer in small-town farm country Wyoming, but I will try.

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-Roger

It happened once, not sure what training will result in a reasonable expectation it will not happen again. The cat is lucky it survived the first round. I'd make a choice of one or the other. Good luck.

While I believe that your dog is good with kids, as you said, I almost doubt that your dog would be good with kids in that situation. I get the feeling that if a child was the one that got near the food dish, he/she would be bitten too. It's a choice only you can make.

some situations have a habit of repeating just be glad it wasnt a family member.

Is the dog still food aggressive with you and your wife? In other words can you walk up and take the bowl away while it's eating?

I think its a good idea for every dog to be trained when they are very young that it is OK for humans to take their food, their food dish, to interfere in their eating, etc. so that they become used to such behavior. We have a puppy right now that our grandkids will sit next to on the floor, reach into the food bowl, and hand feed the food to the puppy. I am confident that when this puppy is fully grown she will be totally accepting of human interference in her eating without an aggressive reaction. But with a dog with deeply ingrained fear of losing their food, such training may be difficult or impossible. I think the easiest solution for you is to only feed your dog in an area where the cat cannot approach him and/or isolate the cat whenever it is feeding time for the dog. If feeding time is the only time that the dog gets protective and aggressive to interference, then there is no real need to get rid of either the dog or cat.

That said, personally I will not tolerate a pet that is destructive, dangerous or otherwise outside of the normal limits of behavior despite attempts at training otherwise. I do not believe that just because you have taken an animal into your home you are now obligated to keep that animal no matter what.

I had a Wheaton Terrier years ago that was becoming more and more aggressive to strangers despite intensive efforts at training him otherwise, so we got rid of him. My son had a Golden Retriever that was seemingly un-trainable, and was doing thousands of dollars in damage to furniture, clothing, even eyeglasses over and over again and he would not get rid of the dog. Each of us needs to decide what our limits and expectations for a pet are. It may be painful to give up a pet, but it might be more painful to keep that pet.

It's a hard call to make, keep the cat away from the dog food is a simple answer but there may be more to it.

All animals are naturally protective of their food but in the case of Sokie being starved in her early life, she has even deeper protective emotions.
See how Niner and Sokie interact when they are both at home together. If Sokie shows any signs of aggression towards Niner, then you will know one of them has to go to a new home.

Years ago I owned a dog that snapped at my 2 year-old son's face, the next day the dog was gone.

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"Life is short, hunt hard"

If that was the only problem then maybe your dog is food aggressive. Keep both, train the dog to not be food aggressive and in the mean time keep the kitten away while the dogs are eating.

Never been in your situation and hope I never will. AAMOF I won't as I'm too old to get any new animals. When I'm gone I don't know how they will be treated.

You have to say to yourself, was the dog protecting it's food or was this the straw that broke the camels back from jealousy. It could happen again. For me I would not get rid of a animal I've had for awhile. Like I've told my wife and kids. You take in a animal your saying your going to love and care for it for life.

Your situation is like having a animal that attacked one of your children. Will it happen again. Then what will you do with it. If you give it to a rescue and it has the aggressive tendencies toward it's food or other animals or people it won't be adoptable. They may have to put it down.

Tough decision for you glad I won't have to make it. I guess your big decision is if you would be able to keep them separated while your not around them.

The dog probably has more then 6 years left and the cat could live to over 15 years, we had one that lasted almost 20. Maybe the cat has learned to stay away, but then again would you want to come home one day to see shreds of cat around the house.

It's tough tube feed a animal, don't ask how I know. You nay want to keep her in a cage while your not around so the dogs don't bother her as she is vulnerable right now and to keep her calm. Make sure you flush the tube with clean water as you don't want to leave any food in it to get contaminated. It's been awhile since I did it but I had to give my little girl water through the tube also as her jaw was wired shut, plus I had to give her fluids the Sub Q rout.

Good luck on your decision deciding which you like better.

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Psalm 23:4

I had a Rottweiler who was a good dog. I showed him in obedience and conformation. He was excellent with people. However, he had a strong prey drive and killed all our chickens and two of our cats. My ex beat the dog with the dead cat and the dog never did it again.

Not that I would recommend that strategy. If you want to keep them both, keep the cats away from the dog's food and step in like the alpha you are to correct any aggressive behavior.

I doubt your dog will ever tolerate another animal,or small children, near her food while she is eating. I would find a way around it, were it my dog. I've been through this myself. My dog was the sweetest thing you could imagine but became a demon with a bowl of food in front of her. She was a rescue and had a hard life prior to coming home to us. I or my son were the only people that fed that dog and I stood there til she finished eating then put her bowl away. I did that for her entire life. I couldn't have kept the dog if I had small children in the house.

I've been breaking up fights between my female dogs for 20plus years. Of course 2 were rescued female rotties. My male rotty loved absolutely everything. Except horses, but we managed.

You need to positively enforce good behavior when they interact well together and hope to head off potentially bad situations.

Animal rules (killing to protect your food) are different than ours. It sounds like your rotty knew what she did was wrong. Work with her. I've spent thousands repairing two old neighbor dog's from my last rotty. She died in April. I'm certain you are paying your vet enough to buy any gun in this classified. Don't give up on your dog. Your cat hopefully learned to stay away from the dog bowls.

I actually have fairly fresh cuts on me from a dog fight I broke up last week. They are working it out.

Taking food away from her, or taking her away from he food, was not really possible when we first got her. I think it was week two of having her, when one night we were flipping thru the channels on cable. Happened onto "The Dog Whisperer" with Cesar Milan. My apologies if I spelled your name wrong...

This show was about a dog that was nasty aggressive over food. His advice was, do not take the food away from the dog. Take the dog away from the food. He would feed the dog & let it begin eating. Then he would approach the dog, and be met with teeth snapping at him. Time to remove the dog from the food.

He did not grab the dog & pull away. He used a broom, and covered the food. The dog didn't know what to do. It just stopped and looked at him. Then he commanded the dog to leave, and it did. Repetition stopped the behavior.

We adopted his method, and it took hold in about two weeks. She really hasn't been like this around food for a long time. When we notice her growling or curling her lip at another dog during feeding, we interfere & make her leave the room, leaving the food behind.

We have grand kids and nieces. Sokie loves these kids. Can't leave em alone, licks em, follows em, plays with em. Her nubby little tail never stops wagging. They get into the dog water & food bowls all the time, handing her food & laughing all the time. These kids share all of their food with her, even when we don't want them to. Those babies are her babies, her family, and she protects her family. If the older kids are wrestling around, she can't decide who to protect, so she jumps in between them, and starts barking at both of them. If one of them ends up on the ground, Sokie will sit on that one, and hold that one down & protect. It's hilarious to see.

She does like to play rough. She is soft jawed. I trained her to stop playing & sit anytime she hears "Ouch". I test this stop word frequently, it's a 100% thing. When our guests, strangers to her, play with her, I make them say ouch also, and it works.

Anyways, I've never worried about her with the kids. But we are always paying attention anyways, as we have with every dog we have ever owned.

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-Roger

Roger, it sounds like you've got a handle on the food aggression. If I read your post correctly even the grandkids can get into her food when she's eating? You can do the same thing with other animals--you already have with the other dogs. Of course the little cat will likely be terrified of the dog for a long time, maybe forever.

It's good your wife witnessed the event--it sounds like the dog had its first lesson on aggression toward a cat.

I'm all for positive reinforcement, but negative reinforcement has a place. Any aggression toward humans or other animals in one of my dogs is dealt with swiftly and severely in a way the dog will remember. Anything that will get the dog hurt, killed or lost is dealt with in the same way. But I try to maintain an even, quiet tone of voice at all times when dealing with a dog--when I raise my voice my dogs freak. That in itself is a great tool but only works if you refrain from raising your voice unless you need to.

This site has some excellent, soundly thought out and sensible articles on dealing with a host of dog issues.

Leerburg Dog Training | Articles

Is the dog free fed?

If it is stop free feeding it and take the food (dog's and cat's) up after meal time.

I can't speak for any other problems but that should solve this one.

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Retired Career Security Guard

OP ~ I read your story along with a few posts afterwards and then I just decided to post. I've owned Rottweilers and Dobermans for well over forty five years now and I believe I know the breeds quite well at this point. Right now, we have a two year old male rottweiler and a five year old spayed doberman. Rottweilers are generally much more laid back than the ultra-antsy doberman but one thing is definitely sure about both breeds - they have an inbred trait called "prey and work drive." Our rottweiler has a high work drive (an ability to learn protection duties well) and the doberman has a high prey drive which is a high degree of wanting to chase, catch and even kill prey (cats, rabbits, squirrels, etc.). Enter our cat who was here before either of these two dogs were. We don't allow the cat to ever be around either dog although I believe she would be safe with the rottweiler. The doberman however is a different story - she would kill the cat in an instant. My point of all this is you can train the dog all you want now but since it is no longer a young pup, the rottie, who is normally a "stubborn" breed (especially the males), will always revert to its instinctive drives. As you know, even if the rott isn't trying to kill the cat, the simple act of grabbing it and throwing it away from its food will always end bad for the cat. My advice is to devise a plan to keep both away from each other and try to train the dog to eat in an area alone and away from the cat. The cat may have gotten the message already and may never try and eat the dog's food again but don't give her the chance. It can be done but you and your wife must remain vigilant. I hope this helps a little.

We do not free feed. We used to, but she over-ate & got fat. So now we control her diet by feeding her a controlled amount twice per day. The cat food is in a different room, upstairs, where Sokie cannot get to it (otherwise she would steal it).


Apparently, new cat = new problem and more training. Time to revisit our original method of breaking the bad habit.

I will not separate the animals in my home. Locking up one or more of the animals just to feed them is not an option. They will get along & tolerate each other, or drastic measures will be taken. My animals are never locked up or caged for any reason. They are members of the family.

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-Roger

That's a tough call, and one you will have to think on and decide what is best. Like others have said I would try separating the dog from other animals during feeding time. If you decide that one has to go, I would probably say seniority rules and try to find a good home for the kitten, because it would probably have an easier time adjusting to a new home than the older rotweiler. I can tell from your post that you have became attached to the kitten and I'm sure with this incident probably have hundreds if not thousands wrapped up in it. I'm sorry to hear that this happened and has put you in a tough spot, I know how it is with animals and how they become just as much a part of the family as everyone else.

You can't expect a dog to not be a dog. My dogs (bullmastiff, Bordeaux, alapaha bulldog) are not food protective/aggressive with people or each other but if our cat tried to get into the bowl while any one of them was eating I would not be surprised if it got the same treatment as the OP's cat. The lesson here was for the cat, he got lucky this time, sounds like it cost him one of his nine lives, but I would not be penalizing the dog for what happened.

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Don't kiss smiling dogs!

Out of interest, what SHOULD the dog's response have been when a cat jumps into their food?

Maybe the title to this post should have been "what to do when a good cat" turns stupid? My guess is the cat has learned the law of the "pecking order" and will not intrude on the dogs food again. Try it out and see if the cat is too stupid to live in the "real animal world". If it hasn't learned its place then the cat would be
movin' on down the line". It seems the cat brought the disharmony into the home why should the dog suffer for protecting its own? JM not so HO. Let me know if you want to give the dog away, I wouldn't have the cat if it pooped gold turds. Nick

This is not a dog/cat thing
This is food aggression beyond a normal domesticated animal's behavior. Talk to your vet for a referral to a trainer or behaviorist for the dog and who can help you change what you might need to change about mealtimes etc.

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Soli Deo Gloria

I made my post above at 12:28 P.M. and rottweiler disaster almost took place a half hour later. I have the back of my property fenced in and I keep a tamed whitetail deer and a goat back there. I bought that deer when she was one day old ten years ago and the little goat is there to keep her company. At about 1:00 P.M., I heard a ruckus going on back there and when I investigated I found the male rottweiler from two doors up doing his best to get at the animals. He never did get in but the deer hit the unrelenting fence at least ten or twelve times trying to get away (cut her face up in the process). I know this dog well and he is a good dog BUT, it took all I could do to overcome him and his "prey drive". I legally could have shot him dead but I finally got him under control after he tried to bite me twice. My point is - I know rotties well and knew I was in for a fight to convince him to give it up. Man they are one stubborn and strong willed dog but I love them anyway!

Cesar Millan will also sometimes use a tennis racquet as a guard between himself and the dog. With food aggressive dogs, he likes to approach the food bowl and cover it with one of his feet to assert his dominance/ownership. I suppose with a rottweiler, you might want to have steel-toe boots...

That's going to be a very expensive free cat. I'd be inclined to do three things for starters. No free-choice food, feeding time is private time - no other animals around, and for the first couple of weeks muzzle the dog until you're sure that they can live peacefully. (As a side note, I've been seeing a huge hog on my game cameras with a clearly defined white 8 on a black hog.)

Could you cue that up and possibly bank that shot on over to a TrailCam thread somewhere around this place?

My Rottie, the one mentioned above, also tried to get the caged rabbit, whose cage was about 3' off the ground with a metal sliding catch tray under the hardware cloth wire bottom. The dog slid the plate over and tore a hole in the hardware cloth so as to stick his head in the cage and try to catch the rabbit.

He tore through 3 layers of hardware cloth with his teeth. He was relentless. Finally, my father-in-law hooked the electric fence up to the metal plate. One ZAP! and that was the last time the dog tried to get the rabbit.

Maybe a shock collar would work on your dog. I had one for another dog who wouldn't stop digging up the garden or running across the road and after she very quickly learned what it was about, all we had to say was, "You want the collar??" and she'd stop her bad behavior.

Here's a video from earlier this year. My wife's cousin has sheep, and they were lambing. This bum lamb wasn't gonna make it, mama wouldn't take care of it. So my wife brought it home so we could bottle feed it & give it a chance. Here is Sokie's reaction.

Sokie's bum lamb - YouTube

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-Roger

Quick update.

Two week checkup for Niner is tomorrow morning. His skull bones are healing, I believe, because he head-bumps everybody to get them to let him. He is slowly regaining control of his eye. He can blink it now, and he can close it when he sleeps now. He is still wearing the brace on his jaw, which was broken in 2 places. It has healed crooked, so his lower jaw is misaligned & his tongue often hangs out.

The jaw brace is also causing problems. He can only eat watered down soft canned cat food. It gets trapped between the brace & his skin, and the fur traps it. His fur is falling out, and the skin now has open sores. We clean them best we can 3 times a day, hoping it won't get infected. Hoping that the brace can come off tomorrow. We shall see.

He's as playful as ever, and none of this seems to bother him at all. He got another bath tonight, and he seems okay with that too. He's a strange cat....

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-Roger

That's a tough call.... I can't tell you to go one way or the other. It's pricey usually, but there is extensive behavior modification classes you can put the dog through and it should certainly correct the food aggression and more. Being that aggressive over food is not normal, or ok. I don't understand how people are blaming it on the kitten. Key word KITTEN who is only a few months old and certainly couldn't know any better. Not one of my personal dogs that I've had over the years all the way back to since I was 5 years old have ever been this aggressive about their food or thrown any of my cats around the house. Definitely a behavioral issue on the dogs part, not the cats. It's not going to change with the snap of a finger either, I'm certain of Niner doesn't keep his distance it'll happen again. Professional training and behavior modification, as well as what was mentioned above (shock collar, show that YOU own the food, private feeding, ect. ect.) is the way to go IMO. If that doesn't work then you may have to make the tough call of letting one of them go.

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M&P 15-22
1911

I think the OP should rename Niner to Eighter; he spent one of his lives.

I would never own two pets if one was food aggressive. I would never own a dog who was food aggressive. It may be okay but it just takes one episode like what happened and now he has to make a hard decision.

We as owners are responsible for their safety. Personally, I would seriously think about giving up one and letting someone else have the enjoyment of a pet.

Every pet adopted or raised since my childhood has never had food aggression. I trained my dog at seven weeks not to eat until I let her. It was a lesson on standing still on command - needed for pointing dogs.

If that dog ever demonstated anything approaching that level of violence again with any animal I would either find him a home where he can be alone defending the property or have him put down. Make a choice, the dog alone with no other innocent animals around or take a chance on him doing it again and maybe one day doing what a friend of my wifes beloved Rottweiler did to her, he literally ripped her face off. He had never shown any inclination towards that level of violence, after ten years from puppy to full adult dog, no other pets and no adult males around, no competition anywhere. They were sitting on the porch together and she reached over and gave him a big hug, he turned and looked her full in the face and the next thing she remembered was waking up in the hospital in bandages that covered her entire face. With polite and understanding consideration the police told her the best thing to do would be to put him down and I would have to agree, a tough call.

This feeding protection is normal for a lot of dogs. Now you know.

My two Labs are as sweet as can be, but don't, I mean don't, get in the way of food. I feed them separately, far away from themselves.

Put up the cats, feed the dogs, then let out the cats.

Supervise the dog and Old Number 9 socializing, and always make sure 9ner has an escape route available so he feels and is safe.