Thanks for the musical trip down memory lane. For those who do not understand Italian, the song is laced with double entendre.

I remember reading in the local news about 4 years ago a very drunk x-mobster Henry Hill was arrested in Fairview Heights, Illinois at a Drury Inn hotel and charged with disorderly conduct and resisting arrest.

Talk about a fall from grace...

He died a few years back from a heart attack. The news asked Ray Liotta what he thought and he said " I really didn't know the guy. He never seemed to be at peace and I hope he's at peace now."

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Retired Career Security Guard

Though from St. Louis we lived in a area north of Youngstown Ohio in the 50's......Dad was a RR engineer on the Erie RR at the time..we had some interesting neighbors.....Italian of course.....reputed to be mob big wigs...even though stories in national magazines called Youngstown..(Murder town) Most of the so called mob big wigs were great neighbors and real helpful when help was needed...Of course it was all stories and conjecture......Normal folks very seldom were involved in any of the so called mob dealings...It was just a well known story that Youngstown,
Warren, and Girard were mob influenced cities.....In those days steel mills and rail roads were the main occupations......Normal people had very little dealings with the main mob crimes then..gambling and liquor...Strange as it might seem the fellows were generally very good neighbors and gave to charities and to the church..Interesting place in the 50's and early 60's...of course there were the famous Youngstown tuneups..(car bombs.....so many during the 50's and 60's Youngstown became Murder Town USA....Our northern neighbor a guy named Vincent DeNero was the recipient of one of those tune ups....One of those tune ups killed a kid of a mobster in Youngstown and that was even against the mobs rules........It was almost a local joke if you had a last name that was Italian, or Green you should probably have someone else start your car...not to many takers for that job...

I watched a documentary on Goodfellas today and it made me think of this thread.

So all of the main characters are dead or presumed dead (Tommy DeSimone's body has never been found.) and I guess people are comfortable telling the truth about what murderous thugs these people were.

According to the documentary the Lufthansa robbery was a miss calculation in the sense that they didn't expect to get 6 MILLION dollars and they certainly didn't expect the media attention.

When Jimmy Burke realized the extent of both he got paranoid and greedy and started killing everyone involved with the robbery with the exception of Henry Hill. Henry Hill speculated in the documentary that he wasn't killed because as soon as people started dying he gave up all claim to his share of the take. Also he said that Burke was still making money off of his drug sales.

Tommy DeSimone is presumed dead but no one (alive) knows for sure. It is known that DeSimone attempted to rape his friend Henry Hill's wife while Henry was in prison. It's speculated that Paul Vario is the one who told John Gotti that DeSimone is the person who killed Billy Batts. Vario was also sleeping with Henry's wife BTW.

So these were the dirtbags that the movie glorified

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Retired Career Security Guard

A "Simonize", when was the last time you heard that expression?

I'll do it for you. His name is VARIO....PAUL VARIO. Come and get me descendants TBH, looking at a mug of the guy...he's what we would call a "fat, middle aged slob" around my turf. Doesn't scare me, doesn't impress me either. Paul Sorvino is much cooler.

Paul Vario - Wikipedia

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Smith. And Wesson. And Me!

@federali

We must be related in a cosmic way...we two retired feds. (I never noticed this thread in the past.)

My wife grew up with the "Cicero" family in the Cypress Hills area of Brooklyn and would go to the home to hang out with one of the daughters. Paul's brother, "Tuddy" was also a close friend of the family.

One of my future brothers-in-law worked at the bar where "Spider" was shot (on Lefferts Blvd) and was a friend of his and various other folks portrayed in in the film.

The film takes a lot of liberties with the true story, but that's not that unusual.

In the early 80's I sat in on Jimmy "The Gent" Burke's trial in the federal courthouse on Tillary St. in Brooklyn. (This was the Boston College point shaving trial.) "Henry Hill" testified for the gov't at that trial.

I've got a ton of mob stories from both work and personal life, many of which are pretty hilarious...despite the fact that I personally loathe the mayhem and tragedy they have brought into the lives of many good citizens.

Back in the day I did some undercover work involving LCN in NYC and Long Island.

See ya around, paisan!

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642-1, M&P15 TS

Neat! Love me a good mob story. I can’t contribute nary a one, despite having a lot of Italian blood. My mother’s father was first generation American out of the old country, but his folks and fam went straight from Ellis Island to northern Maine, for the logging industry. Go figure. Lol.

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Oui Chef!

This whole thread got me to thinking - could the mafia even exist today and exert so much influence on the lives of average citizens? I'm thinking not. The areas they thrived in were of another time and place - tight-knit Italian communities of poor, working class folks who had kinship ties with others all over town. I think that was fertile ground to build up the organizations and their leaders into the influential people that they were. I don't think they'd have much of an impact today. If a stereotypical mafioso pulled up next to us in a Cadillac, and got out dressed "like that" and talking like that...we'd probably laugh in their face. And if they went anywhere today and tried to threaten or intimidate anyone, that person would pull out their concealed carry weapon, or their AR. Yeah, the mafia days were another time and place.

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Smith. And Wesson. And Me!

Well, while they may not be today what they were yesterday, I'd still recommend not taking them lightly.

I was back for a family wedding last year in the old neighborhood and saw a few of the known "made" guys on the street.

While they may not have the clout they once had in the protection, gambling, prostitution, union and other rackets, they haven't gone the way of the dodo either and still leave a trail of tears in their wake.

Me, I personally avoid contact except where various social occasions make that impossible, and then I just make the best of it, usually having a few laughs with them, often at their expense.

(The one exception was a family wedding where certain members of the Gotti family were attending and I didn't want to be seen on camera going into the church or at the reception near any of them in order to avoid having to explain such to the Bureau or to my own outfit's internal affairs division.)

One guy, at a funeral home, asked me "how could you do what you do?" as if I was the black sheep. I asked him if he even understood what it was that I did. Gotta love 'em.

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642-1, M&P15 TS

I believe there is another who was kicked out of witness protection and that's Sammy "The Bull" Grovano who was John Gotti's hit man(around 20 hits!) and testified against him at Gotti's trial. He was put into witness protection and relocated to Arizona where he made little effort to hide his real identity as most of us knew exactly who he was. He screwed up big time and got into drug dealing with his family, was arrested, convicted and sent to jail. He was just released last month and I don't know if he'll continue to stay in Arizona. Here's more information on him for those interested:

https://themobmuseum.org/blog/new-yo...rizona-prison/

As an aside: According to my father I had relatives in NYC that I would likely never get to meet due to their mob connections!
Jim

one night during the week another friend and I were in one our favorite bars near the train station in Frankfurt. one of the girls asked us if we could get her a bottle of booze for the owners birthday coming up on Saturday. it was a lot cheaper for us to get the booze than for her to buy on the German economy so we asked her what get booze she wanted to get him and she said scotch. so we got her a bottle of Chivas to give to him. my friend and decided to get him a couple of bottle as well. so we gave the owner a bottle of Jack Daniels (black label) and a bottle of Canadian Club. the owner was surprised and thanked us. He came over and talked with us for about 30 minutes or so. they closed the bar early that night and asked us to stay around after they closed as long as we wanted to. Before he went back to his friends he said if you have any trouble in any of the bars just mention his name and that should solve the problems you are having.

In another bar the girls were well known for their “aggressive sales technique” and after a while that gets kind of old. I asked my friend if the owner from the other bar had any pull in this bar. the girl tending bar heard my mention his name. she called the girls over and they all of a sudden found other guys to go bother. so the owners name was well known.

In 1975 I went back to Germany for a 3 week vacation and was going through a couple of the bars looking for some people if they were still around. I was drinking a bier and the owner came in and recognized me by name. I was surprised that he remembered my name and I did remember his as well. we talked for about 20 minutes and he asked me where I had been. I told him I got out of the air force and was just over for a 3 week vacation. a pretty nice guy and I think he still had the pull in the bars. he always had a couple big guys with him and they were the same guys with him at his birthday party.

Times change, we have terrorist gangs, Narco gangs, and others today that are even more dangerous.

Not only Italians, read " Black Mass " about good old Irish Whitey Bulger had the FBI ( including Mueller ) by the short hairs.

great story, well told! Thanks, I really enjoyed reading that!

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Real men love cats!

A lot of people have forgotten there was/is? a Jewish Mafia as well. Remember Meyer Lansky or Bugsy Siegal?
Jim

Well. that may be true in some of the neighborhoods where there are still pockets of Italian families who own and operate businesses. But, remember I am viewing them from the perspective of an outsider. They would have zero clout here. I mean I really can't see them walking into an Ohio WalMart and speaking to the Manager about paying protection money. If they went acting all gangster in Kentucky coal country, they'd probably be cut up and used for catfish bait by the locals. By my post above, I meant to point out that their very existence is only made possible and sustained by very unique "environmental" conditions - socioeconomic and cultural. It is a very small environment too...just bits and parts of neighborhoods in the large cities. In other words, they'd have little "clout" in Midwestern corn country and a lot of other places. They are IMHO a bit of an anachronism today...not too unlike Colt SAA carrying bandits on horseback attempting to hold up 18-wheelers at highway exits LOL.

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Smith. And Wesson. And Me!

I got flown out to Vegas in early 67 on a Casino's Jet. Everything was comped/free but you had to guarantee to bring at least a grand to "play with". Just deposited it with them. Went again later..comped again. First time I won almost 2 grand. 2nd time I lost about 300. I did play to..got to see shows free drinks food etc. Girls were also pretty. I worked for a time in an Italian barbershop. Dated a beautiful Italian/American gal for a time who I found out later was well connected. Yeah...they were crooks...but there were some good things they did in the cities too. Neighborhoods were usually safe...and even the cops were respected. I didn't grow up in those areas but had cousins and friends who did. I spent time there also and did learn the ins and outs.... at least as well as a country kid could

Bah. I'm stuck with a bunch of "retired LEs" who inexplicably can't muster a single LEOSA between them, and yet are convinced they can spot a felon or other undesirable from a mile away. Because, you know, these guys "can't help but slip up" under the scrutiny of such master interrogators.

They once vouched for a dude as a "good guy". He had six felony convictions (assault, prison contraband, etc), and picked up his seventh not long after.

My paternal grandfather was a Sopwith Pup pilot in France during World War I. He was too old to fly in WWII so ended up as a transport RAF sergeant in England. I never knew him as my father emigrated from England to New Zealand in the mid 50's.

My maternal grandfather was born in 1907. He was too young for WWI and too old for the frontline in WWII. He did his 9 years (4 years cadet, 5 years Territorial) National Service in the Army and was compulsorily discharged from the army reserves on the 1st June 1939 with the rank of Sgt Major. (I have his service papers framed and on my wall).

On the 4th June 1939 he walked into the Air Force Reserve HQ and enlisted, being made acting corporal the same day. He served in WWII as a transport sergeant, the same as my paternal grandfather, in the Pacific Islands and was discharged after WWII with the rank of Pilot Officer.

My grandpa was of the old school. My mother and aunt say he was a fun dad, but for the grandkids we played outside in the yard, were not allowed the run of the house except under special circumstances, and at the meal table we ate and did not talk.

I remember one family lunch where my cousins, brother and I refused to stay quiet. My grandfather got up and went to the bathroom. He returned with his leather razor strop and gently laid it down next to his plate, giving us "the look".

My younger brother grinned at him and my mother swears grandpa returned the grin with his eyes. Many years later my brother had two young boys of his own. At a Sunday family lunch they were misbehaving. Without raising his voice my brother simply said "Boys, enough". My mother swears that he gave them her father's stare, and they quietened down.

In September 1997 I transferred to a town with a 3 person police station that had been under at least one vacancy for 18 months and totally without a police presence since the start of that year (the remaining cop had gone off on stress leave six months previously and then quit the job). The town had lost its main employer in 1984 and had still not recovered at the time. It had an ethnic gang presence that while subdued at the higher level was at he time active at street level. Taxing of cars for drug debts in the main street by prospects was a weekly occurrence then.

The same day I transferred in another cop also officially started at the station, but he had a personal matter that saw him delay his arrival for 5 or 6 weeks.

On Christmas Eve we were both working and there was a disturbance outside one of the local bars just as we started. We rocked up and found three of the gang members outside in an aggressive manner. After separating them from the crowd I started to talk to the one who had caused all the trouble. My offsider got back into the patrol car to "call for backup" from the main town, 20 minutes away.

I was talking to the gang member who asked me several times "what you gonna do". Apart from raising my left hand (open) and resting it just below the breastline of my chest, preparing to use it to deflect a punch, I just said "Your under arrest, get in the car". He looked at me and said "Yeah"?

I said nothing and looked at him for what seemed like a very long 5 seconds before he broke into a grin, smiled and said "You're alright" and held out his right hand for me to shake.

I had been caught out before by someone offering to shake my hand while hitting me with the left, so leaving my left hand where it was I shook his hand and he got into the car. At the station he told my offsider that I had the look of "the man" and he decided not to mess with me.

A few months later my brother visited (he eventually filled the remaining vacancy at the station) and when my co-worker told him the story my brother laughed and said "You gave him the grandpa stare then".

Anyone who saw service in WWII, especially if they saw combat, would have "the look". Gangbangers of any generation know they are tough enough in their own back yard, but that there are much bigger yards and much tougher men they don't want to mess with. They know "the look of the man" and even if the man is outnumbered or outgunned they will back down.

Believe the man's story of his father backing down two armed thugs. I do.

In my opinion, the vast majority of any variety of ‘thug’, like aggressive dogs, are experts in the skill of detecting fear and/or weakness. They don’t like a level playing field nor fair fight. Efficient pack predators that they are, why would they? Whether or not a ‘look’ put ‘fear’ into their hearts is not of issue. What they likely saw was that it would be no easy ‘take’. An absence of fear and/or weakness. Which, to a largely opportunistic feeder, = stand down.

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Oui Chef!

i confess that i've only read the recent posts in this long thread. some interesting stories. reading them reminded me of a story that isn't as interesting but i'll share it anyway.
back in the late 70s i met and dated the granddaughter of a man that was the founder of a national manufacturer of fishing reels. the night i met her she introduced me to her best friend, the daughter of angelo lonardo who was involved in the danny greene murder portrayed in the movie "kill the irishman" and would later become the head of the cleveland mafia.
i only dated the fishing reel heiress for a short time period and never saw her friend again and of course they weren't involved in the mafia but reading these stories jogged my memory.

I've already answered this. I'm certain the incident happened. I don't believe for a second that fear is what made the criminals back down. They decided the money they would have made on the car wasn't worth the hassle involved with killing the guy.

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Retired Career Security Guard

There was no mob were I grew up. Didn't need one. The cathouse was on main street and everyone knew that, The bars had gambling and everyone knew that. The sheriff charged a set fee for these and everyone knew that.
Miles City started that way and stayed that way until about 2000. I was told the bars didn't even pretend to shut down for prohibition. Who needs organized crime when the community does it all on their own. LOL

Our sheriff was once caught in a gambling raid in a cathouse in Billings Montana. He claimed he never say none of that going on. He got reelected of course because Miles City wanted a sheriff that didn't see that stuff going on. Funny guy. Once the state prison said it was full and would take no more prisoners. Bill hauled a prisoner up to the prison. The wouldn't take him. Bill simply handcuffed the guy to the railing and left. Guess what?

Only "mob"contact I have ever had was out hunting years ago. It was the 1st day of Antelope season in my home state of MT. Got to some "public" BLM land the afternoon before and spotted a really nice buck. I watched him until sundown and made plans. I cold camped out of sight and set the alarm for before sun up. About the time I had my boots on and drank half a cup of coffee here comes a big 1 ton pick up with Nevada plates and "Binions Horeseshoe Casino" on the side on it. 2 "cow hands" get out and proceed to tell me "Benny Binion doesn't allow no camping or hunting on his land." I told them my BLM map says it is public. One guy tells me "Mr Binion traded some land for this area this past summer." He politely told me I needed to leave NOW. So I did. Talked to a game warden later that day. He said Binion had made a deal with the government so now his Horseshoe Ranch was all in one huge block of land (many sections actually) He said it made LEO upset because it was now harder to "keep an eye on" what was going on inside the ranch. Anyway I had known who Binion was and new who Luciano was up in the NW corner of the state (Lucky had a big home there and it was often used as a meeting place for "business" of the surviving family members. I knew enough not to argue or quival about anything when confronted alone out in the middle of nowhere. MT can be a desolate place much like the Nevada desert if you know what I mean.

My MIL told me of the time she ran into an old friend and while talking over old times the man asked about my FIL. Mom said that he had been cheating on her and she had found out and they were in the process of getting divorced. Mom said the man practically begged her to have her soon to be ex "taken care of" at no charge. Mom declined saying he was still her children's father. She said she had heard the man was connected and their conversation removed all doubt from her mind.

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I told you not to use Lifebuoy