Effect on cartels (legalization)

dcxplant said:
Good points all.

Many judges complain about their caseload, case backlogs etc. So, Caj, why would the judicial system want to keep their case loads so backed up when there is a chance to lessen the burden get cases moving?

If I were a cop, and I was injured busting someone over recreational pot I'd be pretty miffed!
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More cases =more judges. Less cases =less judges, judge staff, etc. Less drug cases=less federal money to pay for programs like drug courts with their attendant social workers, counselors, addiction hospitals, etc. Less drug cases=less money from fines going into the criminal court fund to buy those nifty computers and other toys the judges have to have. No marijuans cases = less things for the cops to do = less federal money for "drug interdiction"=less toys for the police. That bravo sierra regarding work load-at least for the judges down here-means that the judges get pretty pissy when they have to actually work a full 40 hour week. DOn't get me started:mad:
Oh and I admit-I'm on the tit also. Legalize drugs means less work for me and ergo less fees.
I've often said that my biggest nightmare is that they would legalize marijuana before I got all of my kids through college. We have met the enemy and he is us.:rolleyes:
 
Caj, if its really just all about money, we are screwed. There is no cure.
 
LoboGunLeather said:
Here in Colorado we are in our second year of legalization for recreational MJ, and about 4 years after medical MJ was legalized. The load of state, county, and local taxes assessed has made the "legal" pot shop products considerably more expensive than the "illegal" products available from dealers in every neighborhood, so there is little or no impact on the illegal marketplace.

Cities, counties, and state government are raking in large piles of tax dollars and doing their best to divert these funds to pet projects and patronage. Sure, the laws legalizing MJ specify that the tax revenues are dedicated to certain things (education, etc), but the actual effect is simply that the government entity collecting the taxes spend those dollars as required, substituting those amounts for previously budgeted amounts, and diverting the money to any budget item they want (or choose to create). Smoke and mirrors.

Use by underage minors is increasing. Not surprisingly, young people see their friends and family members engaging in legal MJ use, so there is even less resistance to underage use.

Social services departments all over the state have reported huge increases in subsidized housing, Medicaid, food stamps, and other programs; in some areas the welfare caseload has doubled since legalization as dopers relocate to Colorado so they can legally possess and use their dope.

Crime rates (particularly theft and burglary) are up significantly since legalization. Could it be that the dopers are subsidizing their deadbeat lifestyle with a little sideline?

Employers are facing new challenges as employees engage in legal MJ use, then turn up "hot" on drug tests, and continued civil litigation seems to be assured.

Driving while under the influence of legal MJ is rapidly becoming a serious issue, requiring revisions of traffic laws and standardized testing requirements costing local law enforcement considerable expenses to comply and enforce.

Other states moving toward legalization are likely to have similar experiences.

It ain't all "high times" here in Colorado, especially for working taxpayers.
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Lobo, I appreciate that look. Here in MX, my associates expect an increase in violent crime, as, for the cartels, mj production and wholesaling and transport were all pretty well routine.
(As some of us remember, the weed businessmen of the 60's almost never were armed, then came the Colombians and the cocaine cowboys in the 70's and 80's. The peace and love era was over.)

Once again, my interest is actually in the exposure of LEO and general citizenry of the US (particularly on the border) to violent crime which may be an "unintended consequence" of the legalization process. Criminals are gonna do crimes, and if they can't make a paycheck shipping and distributing, then armed robbery and extortion/ kidnapping are handy alternatives if you're on a poorly guarded border.
 
1morethan8 said:
"As for prohibition, did repealing that reduce alcohol consumption?"

Yes, it did...

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Alcoholics Anonymous was formed in 1935.
this thread is about legalization of RECREATIONAL. No doubt there are medicinal qualities to marijuana and alcohol in proper application.has nothing to do with the OP.
Thank you for your patience.:)
 
When/if pot becomes legal at the STATE level how are pot smoking gun owners going to fill out 11e* on the 4473 without perjuring themselves when it's still illegal at the federal level?

*"Are you an unlawfull user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?"
 
I don't know whether legalizing is right or not. To address the OP's concerns, I don't think it matters a whit to the cartels.
They'll make their money from pot or something else if its legalized.
If nothing else, they are adaptable.
 
No matter the states' organizations for controlling production, distribution, sales, and taxation of marijuana, there will be a continuous "underground" of production, distribution sales, and not paying any taxes on the product.

Marijuana is not like liquor. Liquor requires a rather substantial investment in equipment, marketing, etc., by the makers. And their production is rigidly controlled by the ATF. Distilleries and breweries are strictly audited, and the reporting burden on the makers is huge. Barrels of whiskey are strictly accounted for both in and out of bonded warehouses.

Now, there are "moonshiners" out there, and they are a problem, but anybody with 50 square feet of growing space can produce marijuana, and unless someone rats them out, they'll never get caught. The Colorado example shows that the illegal traffic in marijuana will continue because the illegal stuff is cheaper than the legitimate stuff. And with reduced penalties for possession for personal use, the reward far outweighs the risk.

And the biggest difference in alcohol and marijuana is conveniently omitted from the discussion. Many folks like the taste of beer, wine, whiskey, etc., and their consumption, unless they're alcoholics, remains very low, and the purpose of drinking is not necessarily to get a buzz on. The only reason to smoke marijuana is to get the buzz.

From a purely libertarian perspective, go ahead and smoke pot or use harder drugs; but from the same libertarian perspective, if you overdose, don't look for me to save your stupid butt.
 
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Legal or not, a percentage of the population will always smoke weed, in fact they will use everything under the sun.

Will legalization cause an increase in use, I doubt it.
Many people in the workplace positions (DOT etc.) will still be tested and lose their jobs if they are users, same goes for gun ownership. You can't show up drunk for work can you?.

Alcohol is legal and can be purchased, many people do not drink it, imagine that.

Violence, alcohol outright wins that one.

The models are set in action at the moment, Colorado and Washington, just sit and see how things turn out.

All that money "Count Me In".

I wonder who was selling and importing all this junk 50 years ago.:rolleyes:
 
We now have dealers and cops.

Legalize pot and we're still gonna have dealers and cops. Just different names.

Any system will be abused.

Just look at prescription drugs. If the doc won't give it to you your local dealer will. Maybe a neighbor would share their scrip. Still a dealer.

The recent loss of my wife brought on two such cases.

1, Dude you must be stressed out. You want a zanny?

2, What are you gonna do with all of your wifes drugs? You could make some good money.

I don't want anything to do with that.

We just had a vote on medical pot here and it barely didn't pass. Not long ago we had a huge problem with pill mills. I don't think Fla. is ready for it with our track record. It's bull, just like Colorado's medical laws going recreational. We have enough bums here already. Especially with our winters, I can see more them coming and staying through the year. More crime. I voted no.

Thread drifting.....I'm told our Gov. put through something about the Charlotte's Web stuff sometime back and that I believe is a good thing. I haven't heard anything since. It seems to work on some children with epilepsy and has no THC content and therefore no high. No high = no abuse. That I would'a voted yes for.

I know someone who has a granddaughter that could maybe benefit from the extract but so far, No can do.

It's all bull. Lots of people just wanting to get high.
 
"Can you overdose on marijuana?
If you mean can they overdose and die from marijuana—the answer is no, its not very likely." - Uncle Sam
 
There have been some recent reports of people doing some real strange and extreme things after eating mj laced things. I would not have thought it so myself, but, there it is.
 
Jessie said:
There have been some recent reports of people doing some real strange and extreme things after eating mj laced things. I would not have thought it so myself, but, there it is.
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The problem when a first time user eats cannabis is the slow reaction time. It takes between 1 1/2 - 2 hours before the effect.
 
I was told the you can only get so high, after that you just low on dope. there are many treatment professional that will tell you that you can get addicted to weed.
 
Jessie said:
I don't know whether legalizing is right or not. To address the OP's concerns, I don't think it matters a whit to the cartels.
They'll make their money from pot or something else if its legalized.
If nothing else, they are adaptable.
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Precisely...my question is "How much more dangerous will the alternative be?"
It doesn't matter a whit if you eat two brownies in fifteen minutes or have glaucoma or blah blah blah... The smugglers at the border will turn to another revenue source, fake Cardin purses, bootleg CD's, auto theft, kidnap, home invasion, child sex slavery... All these things are already being done along with meth labs (it's no longer a hobby chemistry in the trailer park) and heroin. Like the fragmentation of the cartel that once was "the one and only", the unintended consequences of busting it up was the formation of a dozen...and the 40,000 deaths in six years from the war we never hear about on the nightly news.
The one common denominator is..... Where's the market? You guessed the U.S., you're right.

So again,putting aside the moral or pharmacological aspects, how about the tradeoff? What's the price of these four states "new found freedom"?
 
If the cartels are as well armed, and in possession of the violent and brutal nature portrayed by the media, it might be best for us they have something to sell and make their money.
Otherwise, they might want to come on over to the U S and take ours.
 
Judging from the effects of Prohibition on crime in the 1920's and 30's, I see nothing wrong with giving legalization a try. The current strategy obviously isn't working. During prohibition, alcohol was smuggled in from Canada. Repealing prohibition seemed to help the crime problem.

I keep reading stories about people's health being ruined by meth, bath salts, and who knows how many other synthetic drugs. Is this really a better solution than just letting people have some weed?

I used to be opposed to legalizing drugs when I was younger and less wise. I felt I was entitled to pass judgement on others and behavior I didn't approve of. Now I favor legalizing drugs for various reasons. The massive costs of the 'war on drugs' is just one of the most obvious and measurable failures. The loss of civil liberties is another.

Does that mean that if it wasn't so costly, I would change my tune? No. I believe in liberty, which includes the right of people to engage in behavior I might not personally choose to do myself. I can no longer be convinced that it is legally, morally, or financially just to imprison people who have done no harm to anyone except possibly themselves.

The risk that people who take drugs will fail to support themselves and end up on public assistance is a valid concern. I consider this to be a failure of our public assistance programs, not a drug problem.

The world can be a cold, harsh, and miserable place. If some weed helps people cope and get through the day, I say go for it.
 
legal weed, maybe ok, maybe not. legalize all drugs, under no circumstances. anyone ever been to some of the big European cities where it is legal and walk around at night?
 
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