WASHINGTON, Dec. 3 (UPI) -- The Pentagon announced it will actively seek a new manufacturing contract to replace Beretta as the primary sidearm of the United States military.

Gun manufacture Smith & Wesson and a division of General Dynamics have already announced plans to enter a jointly-produced firearm based on Smith & Wesson's M&P, an already popular polymer pistol used by law enforcement agencies around the world.



Read more: Beretta out as standard-issue Army sidearm, Pentagon taking bids for replacement - UPI.com

...and how many times have we heard this over the last 5-10 years?

This latest go-around is called the Modular Handgun System, MHS. Before that we had the VERY brief Combat Pistol program that fell out of the Joint Combat Pistol (JCP), and before that was Future Handgun System (FHS). Each time the scheme gets scaled back for lack of money and, I suspect, considerable indifference from the Pentagon.

New pistol programs are like the long rumoured B-52 re-engine project. Lots of good words will be spoken, and then the project will be offered as a savings measure, probably to protect other more important programs. Apply smoke and mirrors for full effect.

On the other hand, why be so down on it? Worst-case scenario, the gun makers spend some focus on R&D, maybe some research grants get funneled into the gun industry (I can think of a lot worse places for that), and if the military doesn't end up buying it, some of the results will no doubt end up on the civilian market and give us something new to discuss. Heck, over a hundred years ago one of my favorite early pocket pistols, the Savage 1907, came out of a design for a U.S. military pistol that was never built.

Repeated waste of taxpayers' money?

I don't think I'm going to hold my breath till the Beretta gets
replaced.

Wouldn't it be a hoot if the final design winner looked like a 1911?

As long as S&W can produce a new pistol in orange, green, dappled multi-colors and occasionally black and it has shark's teeth along the bottom of the dust cover to hold multiple add-ons, it might have a chance.

But of course right after contract approval, the SEALS, Rangers and Marine Recons will seek another pistol, each different from
whatever is chosen and the Small Hands Task Force will get yet another brand as well.

Can't wait. Wish the contest would begin now.

Sooner or later the Beretta is going to be replaced so there's nothing wrong with being ready to dive on on the proposals.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

and i hope the winner will be the one that preforms the the best and not how cheap they can buy it for

I heard Hi Point had a leg up on the competition.

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Bill
Dis B. Leaf

In the wake of sequestration and across the board cuts, where is the money for this? Or logic?

They strung the M4 replacement trials out for years before deciding on...the M4.

Wonder how this will go...

The hand you feel in your pocket is your Military Industrial Complex. Who needs to blow money on infrastructure when we can blow it on fancy toys to kill people, and arm our sons and daughters with them and send them to foreign lands to use them. Oh sure, some will get killed, but hey, it's good for the country.

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Wayne
Torn & Frayed

Just hope they give our guys the best tool for the job, losing a war is not an option.

Politics being what they are, would Beretta's move from Maryland have anything to do with the decision to find a new handgun?

I can't see how that would affect it. From what I've caught about the debate (nothing in depth, I admit), the move makes everyone happy, the anti-gunners in Maryland who've wanted Beretta gone forever as well as the pro-gunners in Tennessee who've actively recruited them to move there. The only ones screwed are the workers who have to move if they want to keep their jobs.
Besides, I suspect the amounts of money involved are really chickenfeed compared to where the real money in weapons procurement is; you could probably arm the entire Army with new pistols for the cost of a F-22. So I wouldn't think a lot of politicians would pay much attention to this nationally.

Too bad, you know they'll chose something that is *****.

What is wrong with the Beretta? Some will say it is too big, but it is a fine handgun. It can use regular maintenance and cleaning, like anything else.

When I worked for Army civilian police, the Berettas were in horrible shape. Re-blue jobs with fingerprints/smudges in the finish and broken locking blocks and safety/de-cockers. Some were from the first run in '85.

I know the contract armorer who was brought on when I was there. Out of about 100 he set aside over 20 for serious repairs. After his first and subsequent inspections, he opines each time to have the whole lot replaced with newer Berettas or Sig P228s/M11s. But, the civilian contract person says no.

Didn't the military relatively recently order more Berettas with the rails?

It'd be great if they went back to the 1911, but that'll never happen.

Too bad the Sig P226 was not chosen back in '85. Supposedly it came in first but I've heard two stories; either an external safety was desired and/or the Italians played hardball and said they'd close the USAF bases in Italy. Who knows.

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Cheers, Charles
SWCA #2442

It seems unlikely, but who knows. Every time the "new sidearm" push has happened previously, I've assumed it was on some level a negotiating tactic to get more features or better prices from Beretta.

i hear and that is it (hear) that the Marine recon and many special units are using the 1911 in a newer and more adaptable form...

Probably be a Glock. Hopefully a 21 SF if they go that way.....

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Even older, even crankier....

How often are sidearms even used?

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Common sense isn't so common.

Easily, with change left over.

that's been the case ......never

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it just needs more voltage

I wish that S&W had a version of the GI .45 to offer?

Doggone it--beat me too it...

Three and counting--of folks mentioning the 1911. Now if someone in the decision-making position would read this thread?????

I remember back when veterans mentioned the 1911A1, they would say it was just an old wreck that you couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with.
(might have been military instruction.)

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Wayne
Torn & Frayed

I'll tell you who mentions the 1911, people who don't have to hump one with all the other stuff that makes a mule the perfect soldier.

Love the 1911, have two, but better choices for military uses these days.

There's nothing wrong with the M1911A1. The problem is the lack of basic pistol marksmanship training in the military. For all but 3 years of my Army career, my issued weapon was a M1911A1. Other than the time my Operations NCO happened to be a recent transfer from the Army Marksmanship Unit, I never got any serious training with a pistol. Once again, we're looking for a hardware solution to a training problem.

And oh BTW, my avatar was shot offhand with a Les Baer-built M1911A1 at 25 yards, 10 rounds.

"The Army's stated plan is to commence the competition in January 2015, with delivery of the first new handgun systems in 2017."

General Dynamics Ordnance and Tactical Systems and Smith & Wesson Holding Corp. Partner on Modular Handgun System - MarketWatch

At least the Army has announced dates. That's a good start.

SIG is apparently introducing a version of their P320 in this competition too.

Sig Sauer P320: MHS edition

Just another execuse to obtain and lock in an appropriation.

If that happens there will be a ton of cheap Berettas on the market for anyone that likes those pistols.

If the military was set on replacing the 1911 in .45ACP, I always thought it was crazy to use a foreign manufacturer when S&W had superior weapons that were made right here in the USA by a US corporation.

For me the Beretta should never have been the military weapon. For my money the military should have been using either a S&W 4566, or a S&W 4006, or a S&W 5906. I consider all three of those weapons superior to the Beretta.

Still, it certainly seems like a waste of resources to replace a perfectly functional Beretta with some new plastic fantastic gun. It means retraining repair and maintenance personnel, and soldiers and purchasing all new guns and replacement parts.

I doubt those Berettas will be on the market, were all those phased out M1911A1s sold as surplus ?

Hmmm maybe an 8 shot .357 mag....

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- The Federalist #46 -

I would not mind a used "FS" at a good price......

Bring it on !!

....and then use it as a savings measure to maintain funding on another project.

Dates on military contracts, yeee-esss. About as truthful as the average Conan movie in my experience.

I feel ya, but don't hold your breath. The lowest bidder will always win out.

I think they should go with the M&P R8.

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But then, what do I know?

Or a .38?

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"