Seeking knowledge on any two door Sports Car in the 30K range…newer models.

I am starting my research for a 2 door sporty type car but not dead set not the top 3 pony cars (Mustang, Camaro, Challenger)

I am also not looking for a strong performer (no big horsepower or turn on a dime 1G suspension)

What I am looking for is longevity/good value, reliability, comfort/drivability, and very nice sporty looks. 10 years is what I consider nominal vehicle life before problems start to show up (if you take care of your vehicle from day one).

While I plan to drive this vehicle early on, its ultimate goal will be low use, garage kept and in the next couple of years, a high school graduation gift.

in the area of cost savings, I will not seek Hemi, SS or high end/horsepower motors, etc.

I have read that Camaro's interior looks cheap and while I like the exterior of the Camaro, I feel the interior is just as important as the exterior. Does anyone know if the changes to the 2016 Camaro will also include a euro style dash board?

I plan to test drive each model, but I would like anyone with any of the vehicles to include Hyndai Genesis Couple, Nissan 370Z, etc with any pros and cons. if you have owned several or driven any of these newer models, let me know. Opinions and bad experiences are also welcomed.

Remember, I won't be looking for 1/4 mile performance, high speed turns or 0-100-0.

I really like the looks of the Hyndai Genesis…..just don't know nothing about it.

While 370Z is very sharp looking, I know Nissan replacement parts when the warranty runs up are very high….but that may be for all models these days.

thanks in advance

__________________
if you're gonna be a bear...

So much to cover here and a lot of it is subjective.

IMHO no manufacturer as gotten the "retro" styling better than Dodge with the Challenger. When I was looking for a new toy, I chose it over the mustang and Camaro for many reasons. First, I just liked the looks. Second, I like a slightly bigger ride. You can easily fit a couple kids or even full sized adults in the back seat. No go with the other two.

The visibility out of the Challenger was heads and tails better than the Camaro. That car did not feel safe to me at all. It's lighter and faster but again, I just couldn't see out the back and the clutch was just awful. Again, just my 2 cents.

None of these will hold value very well unless you get into the higher end performance levels like the SRT, Shelby or SS/RS.

I have the SRT Challenger. It's a 2010. Has been perfect. Very heavy car, not a superb handler but in the straight aways… HOLD ON!

Challenger aside, I think for that money, if you can get into a Mustang GT it may be the best bet. That 5.0 litre power plant is bulletproof and it's got a great feel in the twists.

Get what turns your head and puts a permagrin on your face when you climb behind the wheel! Good Luck!

Here's mine

I don't have any answers for you but I'm looking forward to the rest of this thread.

__________________
Regards, Ron
USASA 1965/69

Excellent write up Matt.

That is exactly the type of info I am looking for

Please keep the info coming.

__________________
if you're gonna be a bear...

^What he says as well applies to me.

I have seen two Challengers running around our town with the snorkel hoods on them. I have to say I think that is the right look for one of these cars. I think they used to be called a drag pack hood maybe. I am not sure but I think it would look really good on Matt's car.

Inexpensive, economical, low maintenance cost, fun, sporty and long lasting. As much as it pains me to say this, you just described a Mazda MX5 Miata.

Of the 3 cars mentioned by the OP the Mustang is newest. I was in Florida in December and was surprised to see so many 2015 models. The Challenger is also a good option with recently revised interior and more space then the others. I like the Challenger and saw a few more than the Camaro.

Ultimately the best way to decide is to get a test ride in them all and check out the interiors and performance of the models in your price range. You'll know what you're looking for when you find it.

That model is not out of the list, however I am 6'03".....the Miata would need mods for me to fit

__________________
if you're gonna be a bear...

For God's sake, please don't anyone call any of theses cars(Mustang, Camaro, Challenger) "muscle cars"! Because the AREN'T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

__________________
I'm 67. I don't do timeouts.

The $30,000 is gonna throw a wet blanket on your dreams.
If you live in a reasonably large town---go look at 'em. That is what I did--course, I wanted a convertible.
Almost bought a Mercedes.
The new Ford motors are top notch---I can vouch for that.
Blessings

__________________
TEXAS, by GOD

I drive a 2009 Hyundai Sonata which I bought new as my "retirement" car. Now at 45K miles and has had only routine maintenance. The only mechanical problem so far is that something broke inside the battery the first year, Replaced for no cost under the excellent Hyundai warranty.

My car has the V6 engine which is no longer available on the Sonata, but is available on the Genesis, so I would expect the Genesis to have a similar feel to my Sonata.

FWIW, I get emails and flyers every month from the dealer where I bought my car, asking me to sell it back to them!

If it were my choice ... mustang 2.3 turbo smells about right.

I won't have a Chrysler product again if I can help it.
Too many dixie cup cars and expendable engineering for too long for me to invest any faith in any offering, no matter how they try to reinvent themselves.

The Chevy .... yeah .. we get into that Ford vs Chevy rivalry thing .. but really, its tasters choice between them.
Of course ... that keeps you paying interest.

__________________
it just needs more voltage

If all else was equal, Ford didn't take the "Bail out"

That is important to me.

Wing master

Back in late 2004 you didn't get many options. Mustang or Corvette. Chevy had quit making the Camaro and the Challengers hadn't even been skketched out yet. When I ordered this Mustang, late 2004, you had the choice of 6 cylynder or the GT, 8 cylinders. Hardtop only. Arrived in late March, the GTs were running behind. This was the number 10 GT of the new retro styled Mustang delivered to the dealership.

You Camaro and Challenger fanciers owe this 2005 Mustang everything, if it's new retro style had flopped you'd be in Toyotas.

Over 10 years later and it sill sits in the driveway, 94.000 miles. It'll still smoke the tires.

Attached Images

05 Mustang.jpg (157.2 KB, 101 views)

__________________
LIVE FROM THE DAWGHOUSE

I dunno… My SRT with a 6.2 and a bunch o' goodies added on making 445 hp seems kind of muscular to me

Even though I'm a pony car lover from way back, if I were going to buy a car in that class nowadays, I would get the Hyundai Genesis Coupe. I love the look of that car!!

As a Mustang purist I loved what Ford did bringing back the retro style. And I bet SheepDawg is right. If it had flopped, the others wouldn't have done it. Two Thumbs down for me though on the 2015 Stang. They have strayed too far from the "look".

I do find my head turning for the Challenger too.

__________________
~ From the Land of Lobstah ~

Opinions? I got nuttin'....

__________________
RIP Shipmate

Don't bet on it. One of out local club members is 6'4" +3" of helmet and he is out on track all the time in his.

Take a look at the Scion FRS/Subaru BRZ (same car different badging) They seem to do their owners good on the track also.

No they aren't. They are Pony Cars. Pony cars handle much better than muscle cars and have similar power.

There was a test recently and personally I'd go for the Challenger. Dodge offers the best bang for the buck. Of course I don't know your preferences so I'd advice you to read the article and then go to the dealers and drive those vehicles

2015 Ford Mustang GT vs. Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE, Dodge Challenger R/T Scat Pack ? Comparison Test ? Car and Driver

Specs are on the last page.

Good luck and have fun.

__________________
Jorge

American car manufacturers are not known for their long term reliability. Yes there are some exceptions. But I've given up on them.

According to Consumer Reports the long term reliability of all three models isn't good.

If it were me, I would buy a Subaru WRX. Yes it's a four door. But it doesn't drive like one.

__________________
Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

I think Ford has the best quality of the big 3 right now. You don't have to get a V8 to get good performance and I think the current Mustang V6s put out over 300hp and get 30 miles per gallon. They are much cheaper and are less expensive to insure. The Challengers look good but the Camaro looks like its roof is chopped off and welded back on. Aside from that there are no sports cars that interest me in the least, I'm more of a truck, 4x4, and SUV kind of guy.

If I were going to buy a "NEW" one, and I probably would opt to buy something else, I would definitely negotiate an extended warranty into the deal, after some very thorough research. JMO.

The extended warranty doesn't cover anything when you run over a street light----other than that, I shy from extended warranties.
Blessings

__________________
TEXAS, by GOD

I would go with the 370Z Hands down,Especially if You plan to keep it for 10yrs.

__________________
Nationality: Confederate

The WRX advice was good, but only if an STI. The new STI is geared really short and can hit zero to 60 in 4.8 secs. On par with a lot of more expensive cars, My Forester XT turbo will hit zero to 60 in the 6s for an SUV it embarrasses a lot of Chevy Tahoe, Escalades and trucks.

If you want a foreign sports car then you can not go wrong with the 370z roadster, s2000 or an STI. The new 4 cylinder Camaro 2.0 turbo 2016 model and the 2015 2.3 liter turbo Mustang is nice as well. Ford Europe is releasing the Ford Focus RS with vectoring 4 wheel drive (similar to Subaru) to the US market but from what I have heard they will be limited and at a premium like the Shelby product.

If you want something very fun to drive, not fast but very fun all around sports car then get a Mazda Miata. They are fun, slow but fun.

I don't have any experience with the Mopar, but have driven an out-laws Camaro enough to know I have no interest in one.

I had a 2011 Mustang convertible with the 300+ hp V6 and loved it. Great handling and all the sun of a scooter without a kickstand.

It left with the LAST wife.

I have a nearby cousin with a 400+ hp 2011 Mustang GT. She's very good about letting me drive the little pony car.

I'll have to admit, the 302 is a blast in the Mustang. I know it's a "SuperSpeeder" ticket in waiting. I've eased past the 130 mark as the speedometer looked more like a tach moving. It handles curves like your riding in a slot, and will effortlessly jump from 60 to 100 mph.

If looking for another sporty car, I wouldn't hesitate to buy another Mustang.

__________________
GOA
USA Shooting Supporter

You don't know what you are talking about.

The car was financed at my credit union, not at the dealership.

The loan was paid off a long time ago.

You need to think outside the box

For your undercover asignments, go Volvo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdQlk_LJPbA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eNhrl7ICV0

I drive a few hundred cars a month that belong to all different types of people and you can tell the minute you get in one of them if the owner takes care of his car or not. Most new cars are so well built that if you do even minimal maintenance you will get your money's worth. Most of the high mileage (200,000-300,000 miles) vehicles are Chevy,Ford, or Dodge . I think that is due to higher repair costs on most of the import type vehicles . Buy what suits your needs and take care of it.

__________________
Hue 68 noli me tangere

thanks to everyone with the info…I am taking notes. Good Motor Trend article.

I showed the wife the Mazda Miata and it reminded her of her first car, MG Midget Convertible.

I plan to test drive all the models but I appreciate the intell on the various models.

Yes….used models are also an option.

I forgot about Subaru.

and Yes, not looking for neck snapping 0-60.

Sorry….cannot afford thinking outside the box

__________________
if you're gonna be a bear...

I bought a new dark red Dodge Charger when they first came out in about 2006. Hardly no one in Oklahoma City had one yet and I got more compliments on that car than on any car I ever owned. My 19 year old daughter drives it now as her college car and it has about 165K miles on it. We have had hardly no problems with the car (other than a few interior plastic pieces fell off) and it handles great, has great acceleration with the HO V6 engine, and gets pretty decent gas mileage. Right after I bought it I was kicking myself for not spending 600 bucks more for the Hemi V8, but then I thought "what am I gonna do with all that extra horsepower, go to up to the high school parking lot and smoke the tires?"

I am not a fan of the Genesis coupe, they improved the motor in 2013 with more horsepower but in stock form it is very uninspiring for a RWD car. The interior pieces are not that great and the engine makes a lot of noise with what seems little power. The RS 2 liter turbo is a Mitsubishi based design which while a fine design the application of the motor is more problematic than even the American Opel/ GM turbo motor or the eco boost Ford motors.

Subaru and Ford use twin scroll turbos which improve low end torque and allow for a better off the line torque and just not something that makes lots of power up top with little low end torque or power. This in the past has been a problem called turbo lag.

The best cars are the ones that not only have a good engine but a good design as well. The Dodge and Ford products IMO are a lot better than Chevrolet. I want a 15 Dodge Challenger 392 scat pack with a 6 speed transmission and the shaker hood. Probably will have to wait till I have the 15 Subaru is paid off or down enough to warrant another car purchase.

Good luck with your decision there is a lot of great cars out there including the used car market.

I'd take a look at the Charger or Challenger!
I have basically driven GM my entire life and my wife and I purchased a Chrysler 300. There is no GM vehicle to compare to that and I recently purchased a Cadillac. I was considering a Challenger and didn't go with my first instinct!
With this last Cadillac I'm done with GM, the quality is just no longer there in my opinion. This Chrysler was the first car I bought in a long time that really impressed me and made me say WOW!I may be getting rid of the Cadillac for the Challenger and as with the 300 it will be the small Hemi!
Just looked at a new Ram truck with my son, I have to say the quality of the Chrysler products are just above the rest!

I used to think the same way but changed my mind. With today's cars and their complexity, it isn't if something goes wrong, it is when. And all of it is expensive to fix. Just repairing an A/C system exceeds the cost of the extended warranty.

My daily driver is a 2013 Chrysler 300S. I couldn't agree more. Tremendous vehicle with incredibly technology & connectivity. Just love what Chrysler is doing these days.

Matt, I could not agree more. When it comes to a full size car Ford or GM has nothing to compete to the 300. I really like the Hemi and it isn't costing me that much more to operate. Since it is AWD the wife really likes it in the snow.

This CTS I bought is a joke to the Cadillac name! I was always a fan of the big Olds, Buick's and Caddys of the day, these days are gone!

I'm guessing you weren't around in the 60's & early 70's when the muscle cars were being built. A muscle car is the cheapest body with the largest, most powerful engine the factories could stuff into it. No frills other than maybe power steering & power brakes, if you were lucky. No leather anything. No A/C. No power seats, windows or door locks. No seat heaters. No fancy, high powered radios. Why would you need a fancy radio when you have an American V8 to listen to? No tilt wheel. No cruise control. If it didn't make the car go fast, you didn't need all that junk!!!

Back then the Hemi was a REAL Hemi, not the imitation one that Fiat/Chrysler sells today! They are disgracing the Hemi name. Shame on them!

__________________
I'm 67. I don't do timeouts.

I agree, I love my Z! just don't plan on packing anything larger than a loaf of bread!

Loved my 69 Z28, guess not as much as the ******* that stole it! I miss that car!!

Yes I must agree that back in the day the original Hemi's were the engines of the day, I think that they still are and improved by today's technology! My 5.7 Hemi is as smooth as silk and it's got all the balls I remember them having in the past!
As for Fiat being involved, they're sucking hind tit on Chrysler to get their junk back in the states. If anyone helped Chrysler I believe it was Mercedes but it was at a cost!

I bought a 07 Hemi Charger R/T new in 2007. They are not cheapening the Hemi name, they make great power and unlike the 70s era Hemi return great gas mileage and can run for 200 thousand miles. I found my dads warranty card for his 71 Dodge Challenger H code 340 car and they only gave 2 year or 24 thousand mile warranties on cars then.

You might be fond of the 68-72 Muscle cars but they were not great cars. Bad brakes and bad suspensions led to most of them being totaled out. The modern muscle cars are faster, better performing with less maintenance and over all just better cars.

There is something agricultural or simple to the old muscle cars and while I can love and appreciate them. Owning them is something else, entirely. Given the choice better a 71 Dodge Challenger Hemi powered 426 vs the modern 2016 Dodge Challenger 392 Hemi car, I would take the 2016 car. It will do everything better than the older car.

Rags, what color is that, looks like the same on the new C7's and called Night Race Blue.

Nice ride

__________________
Sure you did

Again, there is no such thing as a "modern muscle car". The real muscle cars didn't stop or turn worth a damn, we didn't care!!!! They ran like scalded dogs in a straight line & that's what we wanted! If you wanted to turn or stop people got Corvettes.

As well as some new cars last, I'd still rather have a car form back in the REAL muscle car era. They look 1,0000,000 times better than this stuff does now. They sounded way better! Most cars look the same now. The Camaros, Mustangs & Challengers look "fat" compared to the REAL ones. Park a real one beside the new ones & you can see what I'm talking about.

The modern hemi is not a Hemi. Turn up side down an original Hemi head & a new hemi head. It's easy to see the difference. The original Hemi head Is hemispherical. The new hemi head isn't. It's straight on each side/end. Fiat/Chrysler is just using the name as a marketing gimmick. And it's working!

I agree the new engines are more reliable, have more power using less gas & will last a lot longer than some of the REAL muscle car engines would. Maybe. I had a Duster 340 that when I got rid of it had 175,000 miles on it. Hard miles, a lot 1/4 of a mile at a time. Other than replacing the water pump a couple of times & the alternator a couple of times, changing the plugs & oil, I never went into the engine except when I replaced the camshaft & intake manifold a few weeks after I bought it. That car ran 13.5 sec @ 105+mph off the showroom floor 3 days after I bought it. Before I swapped cam & intake. That car had the 24 month/24,000 mile warranty also. After the cam & intake swap plus headers it would run on a good day 12.7 sec @ 116mph. I still have the time slip here somewhere. When I got rid of it, it ran just about as good as it did when I bought it.

Back then we could work on our cars. Now you just about have to be an engineer to do anything to them. I for one didn't mind getting my hands dirty working on my car.

__________________
I'm 67. I don't do timeouts.

Thanks Mike. It's called Blue Ray Metallic. The last 3 cars I've ordered, one of the last decisions was color. Do I get Black or Blue? In this case I got both. Depending on the light, it looks different. (325 HP 3.6L V6)

I can't wait to get the salt off of it.....(again)! We got 6" of the 1-3" of snow forecasted overnight! By the way, with these RR drive cars, it's all about the tires. I've had no problems at all this winter. Can't wait to put the sticky p-Zero Pirellis back on w/ the chrome wheels again!

__________________
RIP Shipmate

SW CQB 45 - For what you are looking for, I would take a hard look at one of the newer V-6 Mustangs. They look nice, offer good gas milage and relatively low insurance rates. The new V-6 makes 300 hp, same as the older Mustang GT's. I took one for a test ride recently, and was impressed with it, and this coming from an old muscle car and vette fan. Quite a bit less in price than the GT model, but still fun and stylish.

Cars like the Nissan Z and such are nice, but what red blooded American high school kid doesn't want a nice, shiny pony car...

Larry

You really can not compare old to new, I had a 96 240sx with around 400 whp and it would turn 10.5 - 11 second quarters. It was as fast as some 600-750 cc sport bikes and could keep up with liter bikes. To me the real muscle cars of that era where the big blocks as they could turn super fast quarters and out torque about any car on the track. The 440 super commandos and 426 Hemi were pretty quick. Again, I think a lot of your passion for those cars comes from owning them and working on them.

A Hellcat straight out of the factory with 707 horsepower would kill any and all old school muscle car ever produced. The 70-71 Plymouth Barracuda is my all around favorite old school muscle car so I am speaking from an outside view of the cars themselves. A 426 Hemi Barracuda of which only 12 were made could not do the things the 392 Hemi powered Challenger or especially the Hellcat could do. While quick they just were not up to the modern cars abilities. I am not hating on the old school cars, I know what they could do and you are right they are a lot smaller car but people are a lot bigger these days as well.

I believe most people are nostalgic of the cars they had when they were teenagers. I did not grow up in the era of the late 60s early 70s but rather the early 90s to late 90s. So, I had the 3000gt, Eclipse, Talon, NX2000, Supra, MR2 turbo and others to idolize and look up to. With the exception of the zr1 corvette and Buick grand national no domestic car makers were making great sports cars during that time. I think the modern cars making 300-400 and even 600+ horsepower is great. They can do it safely and without the issues of the past. I understand your position but a Dart today is not the Dart of yesterday so I would say that Chrysler has advanced a lot especially in the past 10 years or so.

Who ever said that Chrysler benefited greatly from Mercedes venture then they would be right. The technology for the first generation Charger came straight from the outgoing E series.

The newer Mustangs, Challengers and Camaros just don't have the sound the old 60s iron had. I had a guy pull up next to me in a real nice red 68 convertible Mustang and it sounded pretty obvious that the little 289 under the hood had been played with a little. I'd kill for the sound that 68 made at the traffic light. My 05 GT sounds pretty nice when you accelerate but at a stop light that little lope the 68 had was heaven. The other driver also knew that he was no match for my GT.

That being said the newer 300hp. sixes in the new pony cars just don't sound as good as the V8s.

__________________
LIVE FROM THE DAWGHOUSE

I did not realize how quick modern cars had become. A soccer moms Toyota Camry V6 will turn a quarter mile in the 14's, and that's better than a lot of the muscle cars from my high school days. Many 396 Chevys and 455 Trans AMs wouldn't do much better than that. Unless you are on a drag strip there is really no need for excessive power and noise and you might light the tires once and a while or go 140 on the interstate but do it very often and you'll end up with no license. There's sure no reason a car can't look good though