Well. I was perusing through other forums today and someone wrote "if someone steals your gun and uses it in a crime, say murder, you can be held liable". Then among many other comments someone wrote " As a gun owner you are responsible for securing your guns"

Yes i agree we need to secure our guns. But i would think having it in my house a reasonable.means of being secured. Back to my original question, i assume the liability is dependent upon state laws? For some states potentially yes others hell no?

Just had a pucker butt moment and looking for random people on the internet to clarify these assumptions.

if you handed it to a known felon..yeah,otherwise?...

Are you sure this is true for all states? I know for a fact that in oregon if you sell through private party and that gun is used in a crime and you did not document that purchase, you could be held liable.

I'm just thinking out loud here, but I would suspect that if you were negligent in storing your firearm and left it blatantly unsecured, it's possible that you could face some adversity if the stolen firearm was used in a crime. I haven't done any research, but I think it's pretty likely that the anti-gun states, and possibly some others, view the owner of an unsecured firearm used in a crime fairly dimly . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Negligent in storing my firearm? SO inside my locked house is not enough to deem me devoid of responsibility in the use of a stolen gun, as long as it was reported stolen? how securely do i need it stored? should i have an alligator pit surrounding my locked and barred windowed house, keeping my gun safe in a larger safe inside of an internal, locked room? what if that still don't stop the thief?

and by the way, i have actually bee told by a hoplophobe that that would NOT be enough, even if i had reported it stolen.

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SDMF

Thats the thing, what is negligently storing a firearm? I would think storing it in my house be sufficient. What counts as a firearm secured?

I could understand negligence in having a gun out in the sidewalk but storing it in ones home is different. Just seeing if any legal beagles could chime in.

I think this is one of those "for the children" things. If Joe Thug breaks into my house and steals the gun from the bedtable, and kills someone, that's on him.

But if little Bobby Thug-in-training does the same thing, in Florida anyway, I'm in trouble for not keeping it locked away from a child.

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I always take precautions

This is can of worms, 1st and most important is to REPORT the gun/guns that are stolen ASAP. This will help, if not reported you are SOL.

I agree and think so too. But just wanting to see what people had to say, that guy on the forum was pretty steadfast in his statement

Well its statements like this that throw people off. Are you really SOL because you didnt report it stolen? Id say youd have to answer some questions but the mere fact you didnt report it stolen, i wouls think not sscrew you over entirely

Lol they usually are.

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~ From the Land of Lobstah ~

AGAIN you must include STATE LAWS.

SOME people are subject to laws requiring storage and you can be held liable.

Also, you CAN be sued for a lot of reasons in civil court.

You might not be held in criminal case but you can be sued.

Good points. Should also always keep in mind one can be sued for virtually anything.

Laws vary state to state RE firearms storage. In any state, you face the chance of being sued. Some states can add a criminal charge for an improperly secured weapon. Know your states laws RE firearms storage. In most states, "storage" means when not in your immediate control.

Larry

I think the key here is stolen. If they are stolen, you will report them, or you stole them...just kidding, but that is what stolen is. Report it, and at least in Indiana, you won't be held liable. My LGS was broken into several years ago. He has slowly recovered some of those weapons thru local arrests. They do come back to the owner if reported, documented, and proven to be "stolen!". After trial, if there is one...lol.

You don't need a gun because the police will protect you, but if the police fail to protect property that is secured behind a locked door, you are responsible for the damage caused by the thief with your gun that the police failed to protect, but the police have no legal requirement to protect you or yours which seems to prove that 1) the police can not protect you, 2) you better get a gun for your own protection, and 3) keep the gun on your person. Do I understand this logic?

Hey doug. Uh. I feel like yes that is essentially true but the leap you made was a big jump to prove your agenda.

Reporting may or may not be required depending on state or locality. Stolen firearms are in the hands of criminals why would you not want it reported? I know, the paper trail that IDs you as a gun owner.

An FFL is reguired by BATF regulation to report any firearm theft, why shouldn't the public be held accountable too?

I never said you wouldnt want it reported. Youve basically sidestepped my response and somehow turned it against me. You would be a great politician : )

But you said we would be SOL if we didnt report it stolen, i was asking, are we really?

Also not that i support this, but what if you report it stolen, what difference does it make? The thief already has it, just because you report it stolen wont make the gun null and void. What do you mean by accountable? That one should go to jail if one fails to report a stolen gun? Should one go to jail if one fails to report a stolen knife or bat?

And no i dont care about BATF I dont care that they know i own guns most of my guns are bought brand new. Anyways you should relook at what you wrote and my response because what youre asking is in definitely not jiving with my response.

Why not just check out your own state laws when it comes to theft of firearms?

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Doesn't hasta call me Johnson

Did you read the sentence:
Reporting may or may not be required depending on state or locality.

Depending on local/state law it is a misdemeanor.

But I'm not going to get into a pi**ing match over this, not worth any more of my time.

Accountable for what? Some thug breaking in my house?

There are many things FFLs are required to do that citizens, or 'the public,' are not required to do. Running background checks when selling comes to mind. Let's not muddy the waters by comparing business requirements with individuals.

There might be very legitimate reasons one might not want to report a theft, not the least of which is that, in the case of stolen personal property, it is no one else's business unless one wishes to make it so.

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Georgia On My Mind

I can keep up with my guns, but recently discovered two holsters missing. Neither of them fit a Glock, but I imagine they were taken with my Glock 31 when we were burglarized in 2011.

Again youre sidestepping my response. Im not trying to get into a pissing match but you seem to continually go in a different direction

Ah now i see. Youre saying we would be SOL in places which require reporting of stolen firearms. Of which the punishment is a misdemeanor. Now I see. Quite the stretch of being a misdemeanor to SOL but i see the connection youre trying to make, of which you poorly made.

Here in MA the law says they have to be in a locked container or under your immediate control. They don't have to be stolen to get you charged with a crime and deprived of your license. If an LEO happens to be in your home for a medical emergency or because of a fire, etc., and sees one out and unsecured, you'll be charged. And it occasionally happens in the homes of police officers, usually during a domestic disturbance.

People are looking for someone to blame, whenever anything happens that no one wants to have to deal with.

So-called "safe storage" laws make the registered owner of a firearm responsible for anything done with that firearm. This allows the crowd to see and hear the punishment, watch the blood be taken from someone in atonement.

This is the REAL goal, which is accommodated by registration of every gun owner and firearm, and allows the masses to exact punishment upon SOMEONE without regard to who or what was involved in any particular incident. The tribe needs to have someone to hold accountable, someone to punish, someone to sacrifice.

So much easier to accomplish when responsibility is tied to an inanimate object and no one ever has to accept any responsibility.

Wow. I thought it was a discussion about what happens if you have a firearm stolen. I am just an ole' retired cop, and have recovered a few stolen weapons in my day. If a weapon is used in a crime, we confiscate the weapon, try to find if it were stolen by checking records of "reported" stolen weapons. If we don't find such a report, the weapon is destroyed after the trial is over at some point. Now if the perp states he got it from Joe Blow, then Joe Blow will be looked at. Again, it just depends on what the investigation uncovers. But, if you want your weapon back, you better report the theft. Especially if that weapon is going to be used against people you may know, and you reporting it may lead to tips that will help catch the perp. Just my take on it...

So technically, night stand guns have to either have a lock on it, or you have to sleep with one hand on your gun to be "legal" right?

I've seen it dozens of times where bad guys, usually gangs, let the newbie without a criminal record hold the gun(s) when they're on the move. Had to let some go because they were open carrying legally and weren't felons, even though we knew they were up to no good with it.

I've also arrested idiots in the same situation because they thought they were carrying legally but it was stolen.

Don't want to give the criminal a chance of keeping the gun because you didn't report it.

On a side note, when I worked in Virginia, you could not carry a gun concealed in your car without a permit. Any guns in the car had to be in plain sight. I lost track of how many times myself or my buddies would stop a car full of thugs and you would literally see guns flying through the interior of the car as they threw their guns onto the dashboard or rear dash.

My late sister lived in West Texas. Her home was broken into an a model 36 and a 5906 were stolen. The 36 has not been recovered. The 5906 was used in a robbery. The perps were caught and she got her 5906 back. The 36 was a 1952-5 year of manufactur.

This thread reminds me of the last time I went to look up something on webMD. Before I was done I was convinced I had a terminal disease with only days left to live. May I suggest two things:
Don't believe everything one reads on the internet.
If one has a question involving medical, legal or how to build a building, I suggest one contact a doctor, lawyer engineer as the case may be and ask them (and be prepared to pay for their expertise).
Sheesh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Forum consigliere

Free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it, and frequently costs you more in the long run than paying a professional to advise you before you commit yourself to anything.

Now I need to get back to my do-it-yourself root canal kit that I ordered over the internet.

If the pain gets fierce, maybe you can find a piece of leather to bite on.

IMO, "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" applies. One may not be automatically "SOL" (in their particular state) for not reporting a gun stolen, but documenting the theft would at least eliminate some potential "explaining" down the road. I cannot imagine giving up the chance for a recovered possession to find its way home. If anything for the principle of it. What is mine is mine!

Some of this kind of thing is started by the antis. You know, like, if you have a gun in the house, you'll likely kill someone you love, or being charged because you shot someone with your handload, or some kind of "inhumane" bullet. People who think firearms are the embodiment of Satan, will throw any kind of bull stuff on the wall hoping it might stick.

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Wayne
Torn & Frayed

When I went in to get the police chief to sign my federal paper work to get my application for a SMG (S&W 76) started the police chief said to me after signing the form, "Please keep your machine gun in a safe." I assured him I would. There is no law, only common scene.

Yeah, sure got testy--much ado about nothing definitive.

And we didn't even get to all those horrible boating accidents.

Mine was a spelunking catastrophe, but no matter.

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Oh well, what the hell.

I thought to get class 3 and go through a trust you needed a safe and a way to keep your suppressor or mg safe? Have i been mislead?

You have been mislead.

There is no FEDERAL regulation about HOW you store your gun. Different states have their own regs, but I'm pretty sure that if state X has a "keep it in a safe" law, it applies to all guns, and not just NFA.



edit: Rereading your post, I see you said "trust". I never messed with a trust, so don't know if that makes any difference. Here in the panhandle we have a decent Sheriff. Never a problem with a sign-off, so no need for a work-around.

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I always take precautions

Many years ago in the pre-internet days, I sold a S&W .44 magnum to a fellow. We went together to a local sporting shop, filled out the paperwork and after the then 3 day waiting period was over, the buyer picked up the gun. A few years later and after that sporting good shop was closed down, the local and state police came looking for me and told me the gun had been somehow linked to an armed robbery. It seems the "paperwork" was never logged into the books in Harrisburg correctly and I was the last recorded owner of the gun. Luckily, I still had the documents from the sale in my wallet and it turns out the guy that bought the gun from me was the guilty party, was arrested and sent to jail.

I also had an incident a few years ago when I sold a nice 29-2 to a fellow forum member in Arizona. I shipped the gun legally through my LGS and it "never arrived" at the receiving dealer. Needless to say, this got everyone involved - BATF, USPS Inspectors and the insurance company. The story is too long to re-tell here again but it was literally a nightmare. When it "re-appeared" 2 1/2 years later, things heated up again though!

The moral of the stories - Don't trust anyone or any procedure when it comes to guns, especially in the world we live in today. Do it legally, retain your documents and do all you can to guard against theft or "unwanted use." Best advice = CYA

I always do it legally. I ask to see a GA drivers license, and if possible, a GA Weapons License. We then exchange the gun for Benjamin's. That is all the law requires. Georgia law says that it is illegal to sell a gun to someone you know isn't legally able to own one.

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Georgia On My Mind

If thats what the law says im sure you can do less

How are house prices in Georgia !!!!!

State laws apply I think. AZ has no requirement for documenting or recording FTF sales or purchases. I require a driver's license or CCW + DL and write sales down in a little notebook. On FTF buys I ask for the same and won't buy if I don't get that cooperation. I'm required to do neither. Just don't want to end up with a stolen gun. I usually also call in SNs to the local copshop for verification. Lotta sketchy folks selling guns lately, that's the downside of gun-friendly state laws. You have to take care of yourself. I'm good with that.

So ... you PURPOSELY took your guns to the bottom of said body of water?

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Some collect art; I shoot it!

Their is no requirement that I keep records of my purchases or disposal, I do not record serial numbers never have.

My home in California was broken into and several firearms stolen in 1993. I reported the theft to the police. I reported the theft to my insurance co. Once I was reimbursed by the insurance co. The guns, if recovered, belong to the insurance co.
When Al Sharpton and the Clintons pay their taxes I will keep records if required.

How will you determine if the gun is recovered if you don't have a serial number?

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Florida is pretty much the same way. You can go to a gun show and buy a gun from a non dealer with no back ground or anything else. Most smart people will want to see a DL to verify your a legal resident and of age to purchase. If I sell a gun to someone I will make a bill of sale and have them sign it just for proof that I no longer own the gun. We have no registration and if I buy a gun from another person not a dealer there is no way anyone would know I ever owned it. As far as the commie states I would not live in any of them and if the people from them that keep moving here continue to screw Florida up like they have already done to their home states I will move to Georgia or Alabama.

I'm assuming he doesn't care since after his insurance company pays him for his loss the guns (if recovered) are no longer his. My insurance company doesn't need the serials to write a policy but they do require me to provide them in the event of loss. YMMV regarding various insurance policies.

Spelunking is cave exploration...

Maybe it's like one of those 'attractive nuisances' where if somebody breaks into your property and gets hurt, they can still eat you alive for having something they wanted to break in for. (Like swimming pools)

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Labworm gave the same answer I was going to. Check your state laws.

And your state is not listed so you are left to 50 different rules or opinions.