I was just reading my Great Grandfather's pension application. Question 9 was "what type property, of any description, was owned or controlled by you or your wife, and its cash value, on 4 November 1908?"

Why? Were pensions decided like welfare is now - the more you own the less money you get from the Government? It would seem that, if you mustered out as (for example) a 1st Lieutenant, you should get X-amount of money (more than a Private but less than a General), and it should not matter if your pension is all you live on or if you own a 5000-acre plantation.

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I always take precautions

I thought if you fought for the Confederacy you were out of luck as far as pensions go. Or at least you could do the best you could applying to a government that didn't exist anymore. Especially with the way 'Reconstruction' was being handled. Apparently that ain't so.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Apparently there was. Read this article.

Civil War Pensions

In about 1899 my g.Grandfather applied, (he served in 4th OVI and a 90 day Pa. Cavalry [7th, I think]) he had to list all his living children, he was down to 8. My granddad was the youngest of 12 and at age 12. G.Granddad was 56 when granddad was born, granddad was 44 when dad was born, dad was almost still in the cradle when I was born, He was 23. My G.Grandmother applied for survivors benefits in 1912, 3 days after her husband's death. My older brother has a water color one of my Great Aunts painted of her daddy leading his horse home at the end of the war.

You can go online to get the application from The National Archives, to get your family's service records. It will have Discharge and pension records with it. You can read between the lines, and learn things Grandma never told you! Ivan

While the CSA Gov't was obviously defunct, several of the Old South states had Confederate pensions on the state level.

While they wern't Confederate , the wife's grandfather was 57 when her dad was born, and her father (like mine) was 42. So Mrs Biggfoot is only 2 generations from having migrated west in covered wagon.

Apparently it was a pretty common practice for a young woman to marry a much older man, with the understanding that she would take care of him until he died, and in return would receive his pension the rest of her life. A few of them lived into the 21st century.

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John 3:16 .

My g-grandfather received a pension from the State of Tennessee for service in the 16th Tennessee in the War. The application is interesting reading. He was wounded at Poctaglio and Perryville. Family lore is that he was wounded at Shiloh, though his regiment was never at Shiloh. Regimental records are sparse, especially after Missonary Ridge, when the regimental trains were captured. Thus the pension applications are a very important historical source.

My great grandfathers served in Mississippi units and received CSA veteran pensions from the State of Mississippi. After their death their surviving spouses received CSA widow's pensions from the state. I think indigence was a factor in the award of pensions and it appeared in Mississippi that local county boards were the key to the award.

Here is a link for Florida pensions which sounds like info you already have.

https://www.floridamemory.com/collections/pensionfiles/

After I posted my question, I kept researching, and found this.

Confederate Pension Records

So it was not "you were in the war, so you get a pension, stout patriotic fellow", but more "you were in the war and tried to save us from the grasping greedy Federals, and in the doing so you were disabled, or are down and out, so we'll take pity on you".

Grandpa was born in '43 and enlisted in '62 at the age of 19. He applied for a pension in 1910, so that would have made him 57. He had 25 acres in Twiggs (tax value of 150 bucks), and his wife had 150 in Twiggs (tax value of 600 - apparently Grandpa owned better land than Grandma) along with 25 acres of swamp land in Bibbs taxed at 50 dollars. With 800 dollars worth of land, I wonder if he GOT his pension.

I read something t'other day about how the last of the veterans of The War died in the 1950s. And I thought, huh. If he was born in 1850, he was 15 when The War ended, so barely old enough. And in 1950 he'd be 100. So "the '50s"? Hard to believe. Then I did some more reading and discovered that many of the pensioners from The War were frauds. And with some it was simply economic. It's the 30s, times are hard, and some old poot who was born in 1863 fudges some OH-fishul documents, says he was born in '43, and "fit the Yankees". If he could get a pension, he could afford to eat.

The last one that could be proven to have fought in The War was a Yankee. He was a 13-year-old drummer boy in 1865, and when he died, in '56 or '57, he was about 104.

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I always take precautions

I don't really have any facts or documentation about this. I do know that as late as 1912, my great-great-grandmother on my father's side was receiving a federal pension of $12 a month as a Confederate widow. I remember seeing some sort of list or paperwork with her name and the amount on it. It was tucked inside a really old family Bible. Don't know what happened to it, though.

I'm pretty sure there are still written records about this, if you know where to look and spend the time looking...if you're looking for individual records.

My Great Grandfather received a $13 p/mo pension from the Union Army. He enlisted for a full 3 year term, rather than being conscripted. I still have a copy of his pension document "Act of June 27, 1890". At the time he enlisted he was promised a pension. I also have his Discharge paper, promotion to corporal and promotion to Sargent.

Here's a not too great scan of the document.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

My Great Great Grandfather enlisted in the US Army when he got off the boat from Ireland. I don't remember talk of him ever getting a pension. The "deal" he got was no pay during term of service and once discharged at the end of the war he got a 160 acre homestead in Kansas. He wasn't a farmer and didn't like farming so he sold out in the 1870s and moved out the Colorado Territory to mine around Victor/Cripple Creek.

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Mike
USMCR 84-87, USAF 87-07

As pointed out older men married younger women, one reason per my paternal grandparents was the man had to make it in life, buy land and a home to get a woman for the most part.

When I first moved to the St. Louis Metro area in the middle 90's I started hitting gun shows. I met a gentleman who was not a dealer but always had several tables of stuff. I got to know him very well, his sons were not into guns but later started coming with him when he was losing his sight.

One time something brought up the civil war, Mr Williams was in his 80's then, said my Dad was a Civil war vet and had a pension for years. When his 1st wife died he married a young one who was my mother. I said Mr. Williams I like you but son of a civil war vet? His sons were there they yes it's true. Mr. Williams was a class act and I liked him. He said his Dad went in as a drummer at 11 or 12 in 64' and very shortly there after lost the drum and picked up a rifle. He fought for the last year of the war. I said you are 80 something, in is 95, you would have been born in 1915, he said nope 05 I am 90 something. He Dad was around 60 when he was born.

I should have known he was older than 80, his boys were retired and in their 70's.

When he was trying to buy an old Winchester from someone he would say, I'd like to buy that for my boy. Both of the would be watching, he had practiced this line for 50-60 years and had it down pat. I fell for it once.

He was full of old time gun knowledge, I wish I'd asked more questions on early gun shows of post WW2, and if there were any pre WW2.

After he completely lost his sight he quit coming to the shows.

You have stepped into a world that I deal with.

- CSA service pensions were granted by Southern states to their residents who defended the CSA in the War of Northern Aggression, and who could provide basic affidavits from others who served with them attesting that they served honorably.
- The Southern state from which the veteran served was not a factor. It was the residence at the time of application. If you lived in Missouri, fled and joined in Arkansas, and returned to Arkansas, that was your pension opportunity. Missouri would not consider you.
- The amount of the pension was based on the income / property value, being issued only to those who were at or near destitute. The rules were set buy the issuing state (state of residence of the applicant).
- Each state was different, changed over the years, and ended under different rules.

What is wonderful for the genealogist is the application file. You MUST ask for these (complete) files. At the time, there was no easily accessible national data source, so the pension agencies relied on affidavits (under penalty of law) from friends and family. These may give you bits of knowledge that don't exist in public record.

Federal pensions are different. They were based on rank and service, and issued centrally. But many of the files are lost / missing. To get these, you send a request to NARA, with a fee that is taken regardless of result of the search. Most Southern states at least let you verify that there is some scrap of paper to copy before making you pay.

I learned that my (Federal) ancestor was charged against his pension for the loss of a canteen when he was mustered out 40 years earlier. My (CSA) ancestor was denied a pension until a third member of his unit was located in another state to provide an affidavit.

Payments in land grants were considered a pension, as they granted something which had continuing value. That was a carry over from Revolutionary and War of 1812 "pensions" issued as land grants.

He might have applied (you should investigate), but many Federal soldiers did not unless they fell on hard times.

You had to ask/apply, and the whole community knew it. There was a certain pride factor, as the pension was so miserably small as to only be important to those who truly needed that small annual stipend. It was not enough money to live on.

I just found Grandma. She applied for a widow's pension, in 1917. Said that Grandpa had been getting 70 dollars a year (hoc9sw is right - MISERABLY SMALL) and at the time of his death had no property. Wonder what happened to that 200 acres they had ten years earlier.

I thought that said 70 a month, and was thinking, "Pretty damn good for a ex-private", then I see it says, "per annum".

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I always take precautions

IIRC (?) my grand uncle received a CSA pension from the State of Florida of $5.00 a month.
He was a member of the Second Florida Cavalry and was wounded in the leg at Missionary Ridge during a cavalry charge. He did not received medical aid until the unit fell back to Atlanta. Part of his leg was removed.
Toward the war's end the unit had lost most of their horses, so Great Uncle with one leg joined the Infantry. He was a "Rebel" all his life. Didn't like my Father as he considered Dad a "Yankee". Dad was from South Georgia.

I was able to find pension info of a relative of mine at the county court house where they actually had hard copy records. This was about ten years ago.

Alabama had a old soldiers home for those who served and were now homeless. It was pretty nice, had a hospital, living quarters,and mess hall, and a park. It also had a cemetary for the ones who died. It is now a state park. I don't know about pensions, but I image there was one.

There is always NEAT stuff, when you start diggin' into the records like this.

Great Grandpa had nine kids. One of 'em, borned in 1870, was named "Isham G.". Isham? What kinda name is that?

Then I'm looking at the company records of Company G of the 48th Georgia, and Isham G. Andrews was captured at Gettysburg. Apparently him and Grandpa was buddies, so Grandpa named one of his kids after him.

Wright's Brigade, at Gettysburg, was made up of the 3rd, the 22nd, the 48th and the 64th Georgia. Another one of Grandpa's boy-kids, borned in 1869, is named Ira Goss. Look up that name, and low and behold I find Hiram Goss, of the 22nd Georgia.

I looked up Hiram, in the pension applications. He applied in 1897, because he had tuberculosis and rheumatism, and could not work. And at the bottom of all the forms I saw something that I have long heard of, but never before seen.

In just the purtiest handwriting you can imagine, it says Hiram M. Goss. And between the purty M and the purty Goss there is this shaky-looking X, and above the X it says HIS and below the X it says MARK.

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I always take precautions

Adjusting for inflation, $70 in 1917 would be about $1,300 today. Still not much money, but it would pay for a new S&W or two.

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~ S&W aficionado in training ~