Seems a homeowner went out at 3am to confront a group breaking into cars. He was shot and killed in his driveway. Was he armed, the story doesn't say, I'm guessing probably not.

The story says the group was looking for unlocked cars, and even walked into an unlocked house. Another report said they were getting into houses from the garage door remotes they got from breaking into cars.

APD: Group breaking into cars shot man in driveway | New Mexico News - KOAT Home

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Thread Killer.

A candidate for the "Darwin Award".

In days past that would probably have been me. I would have chased a burglar out the door and down the street for a pair of dirty socks shooting all the way.

Maybe I'm just getting soft in my old age, or, maybe I've just grown a little common sense and reason. My current plan is that if I hear someone outside trying to get in or is already in then I call 911. I then make preparations for confrontation.

If I never see anyone then that's fine. I don't have any young 'uns or anyone else in the house and I'm not going to get in a gun fight in the middle of the night for a tv or a computer or and 11 year old pick up truck. That is what insurance is for. I kind of like the thought of getting new stuff anyway.

But my side of the bed is 7 1/2 feet from the threshold of the master bedroom from the hallway and if anyone becomes visible to me in that space the plan changes instantly.

Miss Pam rolls off the far side of the bed and stays on the line with 911. I have 3 8-round magazines of 230gr Critical Defense plus one in the chamber of my Ruger SR-1911 and I will begin spreading those around and continue as long as some one is still on their feet.

I am absolutely not afraid to get in a gun fight for defense of me and my family but if you want one you are gonna have to come to me. I promise not to keep you waiting.

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Real men love cats!

Like Forest always said!


Never chase any serious bump in the night without being armed and with a cell phone! As long as they were outside I would have never left the house and would have called 911

Leaving garage remotes in cars that are outside is a no-no. I won't leave a remote in a car parked in an airport, either. I withdrew opener privileges from a family member who lived with us and he was utterly baffled. He just didn't get it.

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Release the Kraken

I admire his nerve but what he did was just dumb. He should have called 911 from inside the house and been a good witness to the crime. I won't go looking for intruders in my house either. The worst place you can be when clearing your house is half way down the steps. The bad guys have all the advantages. Better to call 911 and take up a defensive position that covers the stairs and turn the tables on them. I don't own anything that can't be replaced other than my life and the lives of my family members. As was said, that's what insurance is for.

I am 1/2 mile from any neighbors. You can bet I will be confronting anyone breaking into cars in my driveway.

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Front sight and squeeze

I would have gone to the front door and quietly opened it far enough to throw three or maybe four hand grenades, closed the door and after the explosions sent my wife out side to investigate while me and the puppies took shelter under the bed.
Jimmy (aka "Chicken Guy")

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There's nowt so queer as folk

Had a very similar event here yesterday. Don't know the details, but the newspaper story was that a man heard a "commotion" outside his house, and went outside to see what was happening. He was shot repeatedly by three men and died on his front porch. Wife and kids were inside the house while it happened. No indication of other details, or whether the homeowner was armed or not. Could have been a hit, could have been something else.

Same here!

Not sure if I'm afraid or not, but like Jack posted I will if given no other option. The fight is going to start when I'm ready with NO warning.

More in-depth article about it:

Foothills homeowner shot to death in driveway | Albuquerque Journal News

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Now go make God proud...

I'm not in the business of protecting someone else's property . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

[The man is dead because he failed to realize a basic principle for that sort of situation, to wit:

That's what the police are for.

As long as he stayed indoors there was no threat to him or his family. Playing the Lone Ranger got him killed, and I'm sorry it did.

I pray for his family and all who loved him. I wish he had made a better decision so those around him wouldn't be grieving now.

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Oh well, what the hell.

I woulda stepped outside and fired 2 shotgun blasts like the VP said.

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Sure you did

In 1983 I was staying over night at my parents house. My dad woke me at around 3 AM and said he saw four guys get out of a car across from us and walked down the street. I took my new loaded 4" Model 24-3 and went out to get the license number in case anything happened. I held the gun in profile so the street light would highlight it and those guys might not start anything. My dad had called the cops and I gave them the info and they asked me take a ride. "They said it took some brass to walk out there." Yeah, right! I did not mention the gun! But I was young and liked the unearned praise since they assumed I was unarmed. They then drove by a car pulled over by other cops and I verified it even though they had the license number and the guys had stolen goods in the car. I was 26. I had a gun. To this day I think it was OK to do that, but maybe I was being really stupid. I don't know.

When I lived in California, I had no choice.Might wait an hour or more for a police response. That was 20 years ago can not imagine how it is now.

If for some reason I had to go out and confront a group like that, it would be from behind some kind of cover while armed with a .300 Blackout and at least 2 Colt .45ACP. Cell phone and a Rule Nine would also be mandatory. Best plan though is to have the same armament but not have to go outside to do battle.

CW

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μολὼν λαβέ

Have we really come to the point where good people have to cower inside while criminals have a free rein on the streets?

"Your safety requires total obedience."

I recall an incident about 30 years ago in which an armed and trained Customs agent responded to his silent auto alarm. Long story short, the auto thieves had watched enough TV to know to station a lookout which the agent did not see. He found himself between two armed thieves and in the exchange that followed, he paid with his life.

Back in the stone age when I was young and my veins flowed with piss and vinegar, I too would have confronted a thief/burglar. Now, I'd call 911. Besides, going outside to confront people normally denies you of the protections of the castle doctrine and also raises the spectra of attempting to make a citizens' arrest, something that any criminal lawyer will advise you not to do. Going outside is a poor tactic and more LEOs and CCWs die from poor judgment and tactics than poor marksmanship.

Well its "reign" and really more for your own safety and a wise idea to stay inside and call the cops

No expert but "reign" is an exercise in sovereign power. Not completely wrong, I guess, but the term free rein comes from giving the horse it's head i.e. the freedom to do as it pleases.

You sir are correct. It seems though the new way to spell is free reign as people have been misinterpreting it. Haha. Thanks for pointing it out though.

http://www.dailywritingtips.com/free...or-free-reign/

Yeah, pretty much that's how most Americans do it.

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- Change it back -

Where I live, if you call 911 at 3AM nobody's going to answer.

My question is why risk it? Is your life really worth the shovel theyre stealing? We can call it cowardice or whatever you want, but im pretty sure people wont call me less of a man for staying in and staying alive than foolishly going out to apprehend burglars.

Just get a camera system which may cost a couple hundred. Its that or possibly your life. There is insurance for things which are stolen.

Very disturbing thread... both the news item and many of the posts in response to the news item. Is this what we have come to in the new Amerika? A guy gets shot in his own driveway and we blame the victim and make jokes and call him stupid? Seriously, please tell me I am reading this wrong. Please tell me that there is still more disgust and disdain and outrage for the perps than criticism for the "stupid" victim.

Uh, that would be me....

The only vehicles or anything else to break into would be mine.
Out on the rural route we take care of our own business.


Waiting for a response from the Sheriff's office would be lengthy
and the Highway Patrol would be even longer.


It's that lit'l first responder thing, ya know.
.

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

I would go out. You do not hide from problems that need to be solved.

Wow! Are a lot of you guys French or what?

Agree 100%. Flippant attitude over a man shot dead in his own driveway. Read the story and comments, and realize this was a real human being, not a video game or movie. The man made a fatal mistake. He wasn't at fault, the shooters are still out there and it will probably happen again. My 85 year old mother would go out her door if someone was breaking into her car without thinking. By the time the guy realized what was happening it was too late, I think. You can't judge his actions by a couple of paragraphs of news report.

Don't go out the front door.

Situational awareness and tactical advantage are but concepts, when thieves are attempting to steal your stuff. Anyone who has had anything stolen knows the anger involved that anyone would have the nerve to separate you from your property. In this case, emotion triumphed over dicipline, and that cost him his life.

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Stand your ground, 1775

How smart is it to go outside, to confront unknown number of guys breaking into cars on a dark street at 3am, unarmed in one of the most dangerous/violent cities in the US, what could go wrong?

Say you go out and "take care of business," like one guy did years ago - he stabbed a car burglar to death after he caught a guy breaking into a bunch of cars in an apartment complex. Charged with murder. Was it worth the risk/consequences?

There's nothing in my car worth getting killed over or going to jail for. Nothing.

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Thread Killer.

I have to come back to this and say that I'm sorry the guy lost his life, but that don't change my thoughts on him being stupid!
In today's society you do not go out in the middle of the night to confront a situation unless you are armed!

It is not about having something stolen from a car. It is about the phenomenon that if this trend continues, soon all good people will be sitting tightly in their homes and criminal gangs will rule the night.

The police do not have the resources to patrol every neighborhood and every street - other citizens need to act, too, when something bad is happening. The bad people need to understand that they will be challenged.

Are you going to challenge an unknown number of people on a dark street acting by yourself? Are you going to risk your life or a murder charge in the middle of street over the stuff in your car?

It's easy to say all these things behind the safety of a computer - the reality is something else.

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Thread Killer.

Easy answer is wasn't a smart thing to do. But neither is living in such a place. At 3 am smart goes out of the picture real easily. But I'm not going to call a man shot to death in his own driveway stupid or post comments concerning theories of evolution.

And at 3 am if there are people breaking into my car in my driveway I can honestly say that after a call to 911 I dont know what my reaction would be. Probably stay inside, but not out of fear of my safety, but out of fear of hurting some punk *** kid, which is more than likely who I would be facing in my locale.

Maybe the man had reached his breaking point and lost his life over it. We all have a breaking point.

I dont care what they steal. I have insurance to cover that. I dont know why people get so wrapped up in materialistic things. Is it really worth your life?

I love how people are challenging the mancard here. Its quite ridiculous.

Why is it that I think that someone is calling Mr.Sandman for the soon to be deceased perp? all of which I would support. These punks need stopping.

Some things need to be considered before taking action. In the end it's up to you to make a qualified decision. There is no general answer to all situations. Sometimes it's better to stay put and wait, sometimes it's better to interfere. Regardless of what you choose you should call 911 first.

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Jorge

Several reasons I most likely would not go out in that situation. It was not a rural area, so 911 would probably not take too long. Secondly, one person approaching multiple criminals that may be armed could put you in a bad situation.

I am no legal expert, but in light of recent events in society, you might be considered escalating the situation by approaching the nice young boys who had after all, just left late night choir practice, and who would never commit any crime...

To many variables for me to know what I would do. Defending myself and family, no problem. Potentially shooting someone outside messing with cars, probably not.

The situation does show that criminals are often getting more violent and more dangerous. Good reason to own, carry a gun.

Sasu-

How does that work in Finland? Can you go out and confront intruders?

Do you even have Castle Doctrine law, protecting you if you shoot what you reasonably believe to be a dangerous intruder in your homes?

The UK is an awful place to live for this and other reasons. It has become a nanny state, and punishes people for fighting back, and denies them guns.

Europe in general has a bad reputation here for not letting people defend themselves and their property. Someone made a snide comment about France. If our French members see that, I hope they'll tell us how things are there in this regard.


A South African member recently complained that one may have legal troubles there in a defensive shooting, too. But Oscar Pistorious thought he could claim defense when he shot his girlfriend, if the police had believed that it was a burglar in the loo and not Reeva Steenkamp. So, maybe the rich at least can shoot intruders there. (Taurus stainless 9mm, four rounds through the door.)

Would he have been able to shoot a burglar cowering in the bathroom? Wouldn't the burglar have to be identified as an immediate threat? They have a lot of carjackings there. Could a driver shoot a carjacker(s)? I know that some people have carry licenses. Probably most white homes are armed.

For the matter of that, can one shoot a burglar in the bathroom or a closet in Castle Doctrine states? One elderly lady here did shoot a man hiding in a closet, but I think he emerged and was deemed a threat. She wasn't charged.

The closest I've come to actually shooting someone was when someone tried to open my motel room window about 2-3AM in Houston. I had a .44 Magnum M-29 with 6.5-inch barrel (the only gun I had with me) at the ready, having taken cover behind the bed.

It turned out to be a drunk whose wife found him and took him away just in time. I'm glad that I didn't fire through the window, but was wise enough to know that I wanted the body inside the room before shooting.

Only time I went outside was to stalk a peeping Tom at my mother's home while I was in college, after serving in the USAF. I caught him, and he advanced until I brought my hand from behind my leg and he saw a M-19 S&W with six-inch barrel aimed at him. He then fled. I fired one round of 110 grain .38 Super-Vel into the ground and that lent wings to his departure. Police were called and given a description of his distinctive car, but they never caught him. I carefully avoided mentioning that shot being fired. On reflection, I probably shouldn't have discharged the gun, even into safe ground. But I think this individual may have re-thought his career of peeping, and maybe worse.

This happened long enough ago that the Super-Vel ammo was bought new a few weeks before the incident, about 1970. That would not now be my ammo of choice.

I'd definitely have called the police and remained armed and ready indoors in the case under discussion.

Remember how the media has reacted in cases with a racial element. That as well as the law demands caution in any shooting.

Oh, I have stories of being dumb like this guy. I usually get called a liar when I tell them so I won't. But I did...in my younger days...routinely confront criminals, gangs, and suspicious persons. Sometimes I didn't have much choice, other times I foolishly put myself in harm's way. Pulled a gun on several occasions, opened fire twice.

If I saw a gang going car to car in my neighborhood I would arm myself and stand in front of my house after directing the wife to call 911. I would not leave my property, I would not challenge or threaten anyone, I would not display a firearm. But I would protect my home and if they came on my property or in some other way caused me to fear for my life I would react accordingly.

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No life story has happy end.

"Soon" the criminals will own the night. In case no one has noticed, they've ruled the night for decades. Just go to specific neighborhoods within the big cities and you'll see that the good citizens have installed bars on all their windows and steel cages on their front porches and barred doors blocking all entrances.

They have transformed entire neighborhoods into a prison, which our politicians love. It's far cheaper to let the criminals roam free and have the law abiding citizens keep themselves locked up. These "prisoners" don't need corrections officers, supplied food or medical attention.

I love the cliche you hear during election campaigns: "Let's take back the streets." With what I might ask? In any area where the streets need to be taken back, law abiding citizens are not allowed guns.

No. Defending yourself in Finland, even with your fists, often earns you a fine or even a prison sentence. Using a firearm is a definite no-no.

As to the original topic, not every confrontation ends in violence, and shootings are even more rare. That is why I believe it makes sense for people to at least check what is going on when they suspect criminal activity - the criminals should not have total freedom to do as they want.

At our home in a quiet suburb I go out to check every strange sound and often check out cars that drive by our house at odd hours. A while ago in the middle of the night a black van arrived and parked on the driveway of our neighbor at about 1 am. I had never seen the van before. I immediately put my boots on and went to see what is happening. Turned out the neighbors had just bought the van and arrived home late so everything was fine. But it was definitely worth verifying.

I walk around the house when I hear an unusual sound. The likelihood of running into a violent criminal is minimal, and I want to know the source of the sound, be it a person, animal, weather or some mechanical source.

In my opinion it is the responsibility of everyone in a neighborhood to keep their eyes open and in case of suspicious activity intervene in a sensible way.

If I were to see e.g. a team of burglars at a neighbor's house I would most likely not intervene myself but I would call the police, maybe block the burglars' car with my own car, or follow the burglars until the police catch up. If I saw violence I would probably go and help a neighbor, hard to predict before hand - in Finland this carries a high risk of getting punished in court. If someone tries to break into our house while my family is inside, the intruders will encounter hard resistance - I will not put my family at risk if I can prevent it.

I see this kind of thing (attached) in the local news about once a month. Notice the police log said nothing about the guy doing the shooting, even though it was not his car nor is it legal to fire warning shots. Probably shook his hand.

We had a big firearm related incident (sp) just last night, have seen nothing in the news about it yet...

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Maybe that's true where you live.

Yes, check. You'd better be prepared what you might find or what finds you.

While it's nice to think that, citizens are limited on what they can LEGALLY do.

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Thread Killer.

Well, you aren't supposed to see "indecent" things in the news.

Sorry: I couldn't resist. I realize that you were trying to spell, "incident."