Some of the herding breeds are more like drovers. They're usually larger and their purpose is to protect more so than herd.

They're usually shown in the herding group in shows but if you study dog breeds you will find that some of them are now considered Working Dogs.

The German "Shepherd" comes to mind. Just look at the last four letters. People wonder why they bite you in the butt.

I've been blessed owning a Briard. They are still considered to be a Herding breed but the French used them in battle. I saw him defend against a heavier Pitt Bull and was impressed how he used his weight to keep that dog off balance. (If it had gone on much longer my boy woulda been in serious trouble.)

I also have owned a Giant Schnauzer. Now considered a working dog. They're super smart and a hand full to those not ready for their sense of humor. He was great at droveing but really shined at protection. Happily he never got into it with a Pitt but he woulda kicked some butt if need be.

My point? Is it really the Herding Group or is it really the Working Group and what defines it?

All dog threads need pictures,

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Dum vivo cano

The Herding Group was formed in the mid 80's up to that point they were all Working dogs. Herding dogs are either herders or guardians like the Great Pyrs or Komondors, etc, Our Rottweilers were original herding dogs, but placed in Working due to the police work and draft work. The true herding dogs have an eye to hypnotize as well as drive a heard, some breeds better on sheep, some better on cattle.

My two collies are herding dogs that have been together for ten years. It’s a joy to see them work together; like watching two dogs with one mind. They recognize every animal on the farm and know when one is missing or hurt.

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A gun has no brain.. use yours

You are right about working and herding dogs being mixed up.My Bouvier girls do qualify more as working dogs. They don't use the eye they will shoulder to make whatever needs it to comply.My older girl was a wonderful therapy dog.But as gentle as she is with children or hospital patients she is still a great protector of the property .And the few times I was dumb enough to raise my voice to my wife she would stand Up and stare at me telling me that was enough.Unfortunatley we had to retire her from the work she loves because she has cancer.Sorry for drift just feeling bad for my girl.

The only thing mine herds is me! Gotta pee? Ok I coming. Hungry? Ok I'm coming. Sit on my lap? Ok here ya go.

Seriously though, years ago we had a collie. Most intelligent dog I ever knew. I trained her to obey and not be on a leash. She never left my side.

If she saw a cat she would look at me and whimper but she never moved. The look on her face seemed to say "oh please, please dear master. If you could find it in your heart to let me chase the kitty, I would be eternally grateful". Then I would say "get the kitty!". She let out a bark and ran top speed towards the cat. Of course she never caught up with them because I called her off. She would come right back and sit beside me.

We were moving into a new house. Between my wife and I and several relatives, we lost track of our two year old daughter. We looked frantically for a few minutes. Then we looked out the living room window. There was our collie and our daughter on the front lawn. Our daughter was trying to get to the sidewalk. She didn't know about the three foot drop from the lawn. But the dog did. Our collie placed herself directly in front of our daughter and moved forward and backward as our daughter tried to get around her. We stood there in amazement and we were grateful. Dog got a piece of steak that night.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

I've had Old English Sheepdogs for over 20 years. One strange thing I found out was that only the males will herd, the females are great guard dogs but could care less about sheep. My current female goes nuts when the doorbell rings and scares people. My previous male wouldn't even notice a stranger walking into the house. But put him in a field with sheep and he changed in an instant. The first 3 pics are Sebastian, we lost him in 2005, the last pic is Bobbi, she's still with us.

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Don't leave out the lowriders!

Works twice as hard to get half as far !

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wanna do right-- not right now

Here is a special sub-breed of "Rescue Collies" they don't actually herd, they are used primarily for special rescue operations, in the meantime, they need all the energy they can store away, so for the moment, they are "Rest-Q-Collies"...

When I started dating my wife 7 years ago she had a Sheltie named Riley and he had the most beautiful coloring of any dog I had ever seen. He was mostly black and white with carmel on his chest and he had a white area between his eyes with a black stripe right in the middle of it. When he walked at a fast paced he had a very elegant "stride" like a trotting horse and he was the smartest and most obedient dog I had ever been around. You could leave a sandwich on the coffee table right next to him and walk away, he wouldn't touch it because he knew it wasn't his, and we didn't even have to teach him that. In the nine years we owned him he never once went to the bathroom in the house and once a person forgot to let him out when we were gone overnight and he went 24 hours and still held it when we got back. About a month ago he started having seizures and got too weak to even stand up so we had him put put to sleep Sunday night. Man that was hard, my wife has been crying a lot and we still think about him every day.

Aloha,

We have (had) 5 Australian Cattle Dogs, 2 have since passed.

When we got each new dog as a puppy, we only had 1 or 3 messes inside.

Seems the older dogs taught the newbies the house rules.

When they went to dog school, we always made sure they were in the middle or last in class.

They would watch the other dogs do class work. When it was their turn, they did everything correctly. Learned by watching.

Sit n Stay was hard for them, they had itchy feet. They got bored easily.

As you should, but in time, well...time will ease your heart of the pain of loosing a good dog like Riley. Have you considered that there is another out there, that's needs a faithful master and mistress, such as Riley had in you?

In truth, we got that pair of collies after our beloved sheltie, Hope died of cancer. The only things those two collies rescued were us....

So sorry for your loss.

My Anatolian/Maremmas don't herd at all, they are strictly livestock guardians. They will systematically corner a coyote and reduce it to such little pieces it would take a forensic biologist to identify the remains.

One time years ago before I started using LGDs, I was out in the pasture with the goats and this old retired cowboy came down the road and stopped to gab at the fence. He had his dog, a border Collie in the back of his pickup. The dog was eyeing the goats and wagging its tail. The old guy said it's been a few years since she's had any herding practice. I said let her down and we'll see what she can do, has she ever herded goats? He said no, are they different? I said you'll see.
Goats are not cattle and they definitely are not sheep. Rather than running, a goat's first response to a threat is to face it, head down and stomp its front feet. An entire herd will turn in unison to face down what it collectively views as a threat. That poor dog ran itself ragged trying to get those goats to bunch up into a corner and finally gave up and came back to the fence and laid down.

I did some research and their main purpose was pulling meat wagons to market. But they were used as herders with stubborn sheep because they physically bump the sheep in the direction they should go. I've noticed that with our that is half rottweiler and half little baby. She's smaller still, but she pushes the bigger dogs around with her shoulder.

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