Only the newer Saturn's were, after GM brought them back in house and turned the Saturn brand into just another badge. The early Saturns were their own design.

The current GM lambda (Traverse, Acadia, etc) has the battery under the floor behind the passenger seat.

The linked article talked about poor code but didn't bring up user error at all, it just mentioned skid marks, which just means that at some point the brakes were applied. I still believe it was user error.

* A 2005 Toyota Camry has from 160 bhp (base model) to 225 bhp (top SE model). Not enough to overpower brakes that are in proper condition. Car magazines regularly publish performance data for cars. I doubt you will find any that have quicker 0-60 times than 60-0.

* the article discusses skid marks caused by the front tires after applying the emergency brake. Maybe Toyota is different, but on the cars I've owned the e-brake uses the rear wheels.

* the article implies the e-brake is stronger than the main hydraulic brakes. Highly unlikely.

* if the car left skid marks, the wheels weren't turning (they were locked up). If brakes are strong enough to lock the wheels, how did it accelerate fast enough to leave a 150 foot skid mark?

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Common sense isn't so common.

the 1996 Saturn SL traces straight back to the Opel Vectra.
at least mostly ....
The drive lines were stuff of random nightmares.
Between the brain box, engine, and transmission, an issue with any of these three items can render it scrap.
In the case of the wifes Saturn, a problem with the transmission mandated a new ECU to be compatible with the new gear box. This of course, fought with the engine. there was no way to change anything out successfully.
Seems to me that some major components of the car came from a number of undisclosed "elsewheres" to generate such a confounding result.

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it just needs more voltage

Hey BigBill with all of this helpful advice did you buy a car yet?

Inquiring minds want to know?

After the stunt Ford pulled on the Eco Engines I would buy a Subaru or any other Vehicle before I would buy a Ford,And I am a life long Ford Owner and when Mine finally dies I will look at Chrysler or Honda.

Whatever BigBill buys I just hope he remembers to put it in H and it gets at least three hundred hectares on a single tank of kerosene.

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I might be wrong but........

which one specifically?
there are just some places where a tecked out power plant does not belong

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it just needs more voltage

Still browsing for a new car.

The Subaru WRX looks good need to sit in it.
The Xtrek Subaru looks ok but no wrx engine.

The mustang seems like lots of electronics. Plus winter is here.

IDK wether to wait for springtime or buy now.

Go look at the Forester XT, WRX engine combined with a sequentially shifted (acts like a 8 speed) gear box. Fast enough and has a hatch like the old STI/ WRX Impreza based car. Do not know if you like an SUV though.

Attached Images

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My Son got stuck with one of these Gem's and evidently Ford refuses to fix the problem as the best fix is a new Engine.

September 9, 2014
CONSUMER SAFETY ALERT: Ford EcoBoost Engines Can Suddenly Fail Creating Dangerous Conditions
By Cafferty Clobes Meriwether & Sprengel LLP


A primary concern for vehicle purchasers and consumers is safety and reliability. When vehicles are proven to be unsafe because of the way they were designed, it is the duty of the manufacturer to make your vehicle safe to operate.

Consumers who own or lease vehicles equipped with Ford’s EcoBoost engine have reported hundreds of reliability and safety issues. Many such complaints relate to the EcoBoost engine suddenly and unexpectedly shuddering, shaking violently, stumbling, misfiring, rapidly losing power, or going into limp mode while a driver is operating the vehicle. Some consumers report sudden shutdown of their EcoBoost vehicle or total loss of power. This often happens when vehicles are operating at highway speeds or are otherwise accelerating and is often accompanied by loss of control of the vehicle, loss of power steering, loss of airbag functionality, and loss of use of locks and windows. This creates a dangerous condition for the driver, their family and other passengers, and other drivers on the road.

These dangerous conditions are likely caused by a defect in Ford’s design of the EcoBoost engines. Despite the dangerous vehicles often being under warranty when the defect manifests, consumers have reported that Ford refuses to repair the EcoBoost engine and make these vehicles safe to operate. Often, when consumers who suffer from these dangerous conditions take their vehicles to Ford-authorized dealerships, the dealerships tell the consumers that they cannot re-create the problem and thus cannot repair the EcoBoost engines. In some instances, if consumers complain enough, the Ford dealerships make an inadequate repair (replacing the MaP sensor), which does not actually fix the defect. Many consumers report that their EcoBoost engines have shutdown or stalled multiple times—even after the Ford dealerships claim to have made repairs. Yet, Ford continues to deny a problem exists or provide an adequate repair for the EcoBoost engines.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) is division of the Department of Transportation. Its mission is to “save lives, prevent injuries, reduce economic costs due to road traffic crashes, through education, research, safety standards and enforcement activity.” As part of that mission, NHTSA is tasked with gathering information on vehicle-related safety concerns and accidents. In certain cases, NHTSA launches its own investigation into consumer complaints to determine if a vehicle manufacturer should be required to recall a dangerous vehicle.

After receiving several hundred complaints relating to Ford’s F-150 trucks equipped with an EcoBoost engine suddenly and unexpectedly shuddering, shaking violently, stumbling, misfiring, rapidly losing power, or going into limp mode while a driver is operating the vehicle, the NHTSA launched an investigation. Tests conducted as a result of that investigation traced the problem to condensation in the intercooler. That condensation can result in water being pulled into the engine, which can cause cylinders to misfire. The NHTSA found that a proposed fix by Ford corrected the problem in the F-150s.

However, the NHTSA did not require a recall of Ford F-150s, and Ford did not issue one. Ford has left its consumers in the dark about this dangerous condition. Additionally, while owners and lessors of ALL Ford vehicles equipped with EcoBoost engines have complained and experienced this defect, Ford has done nothing to repair or address this defect in other vehicles. Investigation shows that vehicles such as the Ford Escape, Explorer, Fusion, and Taurus, among others, also experience these problems.

On June 10, 2014, Cafferty Clobes filed a nationwide class action lawsuit against Ford Motor Co. on behalf of a consumer who experienced this defect. Cafferty Clobes continues to investigate these claims. If you have a vehicle equipped with a Ford EcoBoost engine, and you have experienced these problems with your vehicle, please contact the experienced, class action attorneys at Cafferty Clobes Meriwether & Sprengel to discuss your experiences, find out your rights, and demand that Ford address this serious condition.

Ambulance chaser.

Got both, Mustang gets stuck on level ground. Looks and sounds great, cops love it. Get the Subaru.

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I hope I copied that right

I had those choices and more this summer when I bought a new vehicle.

Chose a new Aluminum Ford F 150 Super cab with the V-6 and dual turbo chargers. It is fast and in my youth I owned a built Cuda, a 396 SS and some others I know what fast is or was. This F 150 is just plain fun. And it will carry my Yamaha 4 WD 4 wheeler. Put that in your stang or on your Subaru.

And Locnload, your snow bank is smoking or is that a white 300?

Will a 4x8 sheet of plywood fit in Mustang or Subaru?

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SOS USA

Sure. Cut it into 2' X 2' squares.

Nobody can tell you which car you'd like. I will say my wife has a 2015 V6 Mustang and it has plenty of power (305HP) for fun driving. I test drove the V8 GT model (435HP) with 6 speed manual and that thing was a monster. I'd be in jail within hours with that thing. All new Mustangs have limited slip, independent rear suspension and a host of electronic marvels.

Wouldn't own a Subaru if you gave me one.

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No life story has happy end.

"Monster."

When I test drove the 2012 Mustang GT (412hp), the salesman got annoyed with me (thought I didn't know what I was doing):

"Why do you keep short shifting?"

"Because I don't want to get a ticket. You got some place we can go to where I can open it up?"

"No."

Then shut up.

who cares.
they'll drive past gas stations, repair shops and chiropractors offices on your way to pick up 110 pounds of mistress.

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it just needs more voltage

We have a 15 WRX (wifes car) it has the CVT, leather and more goodies than I can use. Had it about a year and a half now, no problems at all.

The WRX has summer tires so they aren't very good in the snow. I bought a second set of tires and rims (Blizzacks). You do need to fool with the TPM system, its a pain. The car is like a billy goat in the snow. As long as its not deep enough to lift the car it goes with no effort. Its better driving in the snow than my 2500 Silverado 4x4...

I rented a new Mustang this spring, it was nice but the WRX was nicer to me.

If the WRX was stolen or ruined we would buy another without a thought.