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02-01-2016, 07:23 PM
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Screwed
All of my S&Ws have slotted screws. Do any S&W handguns have Phillips, Torx, or other non-traditional firearms screws?
Whenever I see Torx screws, I picture the minimum wage guy zipping the grip screws in with his air tool.
I had a tour through the S&W factory in 1963. In the final assembly room, there were old guys working at individual carpeted benches carefully putting the guns together using highly polished slotted blued screws. Lost to history.
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02-01-2016, 07:28 PM
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I would prefer to see hex head screws, only ones I know of associated with guns are grip screws for 1911s and for scope mounts.
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02-01-2016, 07:30 PM
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I've only ever seen slotted screws in S&W's, but I haven't seen that many S&W's.
As far as construction & building stuff, slotted screws are obsolete, and I'll never buy a phillips screw again.
Torx for me from here on out. The bits aren't tapered, so you don't get all the slipping that is commonplace with phillips screws.
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02-01-2016, 07:31 PM
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Fairly simple to set the torque on an pneumatic but in the long view...?
It's like the guy who drops the nut into the socket and cross threads your lug nuts.
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02-01-2016, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt
I would prefer to see hex head screws, only ones I know of associated with guns are grip screws for 1911s and for scope mounts.
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Check out some Dan Wesson revolvers.
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02-01-2016, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatriotX
Check out some Dan Wesson revolvers.
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Upon reflection, I think I have seen some hex head rifle action screws also. I don't know anything about Dan Wesson revolvers.
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02-01-2016, 07:52 PM
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Slotted, Phillips or otherwise, a proper driver meant for the job will work as its supposed to if you do.
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02-01-2016, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hillbilly77
The bits aren't tapered, so you don't get all the slipping that is commonplace with phillips screws.
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I have some news for you, they're supposed to do that. The Phillips screw was invented to prevent over torquing of the screw head and potentially breaking it off. The slotted screw was much easier to put too much torque on. Also, as Jessie said, people often use the wrong driver. This leads to more frustration.
Were you aware that there are many different screw types? Every hear of cross slot? What about Reed Prince? How about high torque? Then there's the ever popular Pozi Drive which looks a lot like a Phillips, but isn't. Sure you can use a regular Philips on it, but it isn't the right tools.
Also, most slotted screws on guns aren't just regular slotted. Usually they have straight walls on the slot. This means they require a hollow ground driver. Use a regular driver and you'll only bugger the screw.
Speaking of slotted on 1911s, did you know the slot in the grip screws is not flat bottomed? It's actually supposed to be a rounded bottom so the rim of a .45 cartridge could be used to remove them. Use a regular driver on those and I can almost guarantee a buggered screw head.
I love the Torx screws, but they require a special driver. Without the driver you're screwed (see what I did there?). Then there's the tamper resistant Torx. Those are really a pain if you don't have the special driver.
I don't like Allen or, as some call them, hex screws. They strip far too easily. Especially if you get the wrong wrench size. Put an SAE into a Metric screw that is just a tiny bit too small and you're in for some fun.
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02-01-2016, 08:56 PM
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First job in the auto factory was using Phillips screws to secure weather strip on the door. Averaged 13 screws and 5 pieces of material on each car. 55 cars an hour. You learn to run you screw till the screw is just right. No slipping. I was 19 then. Now at 70 I can still shoot those Phillips screws and not bugger the head are the tip.
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02-01-2016, 09:08 PM
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I like screws that I can tighten with a Swiss Army knife.
My Beretta M-92FS has screws with just a hole in the heads. How'm I gonna deal with those? Fortunately, they haven't loosened, but what if I wanted to change grips?!
I see pics of other Berettas with normal slotted screws. I wish mine had them.
I hope everyone here knows that S&W revolvers do not use the same screws in all holes. It isn't uncommon to find used revolvers with the wrong screw in the front sideplate hole, the yoke screw.
Last edited by Texas Star; 02-01-2016 at 09:13 PM.
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02-01-2016, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A-37
[...] Do any S&W handguns have Phillips, Torx, or other non-traditional firearms screws? [...]
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The safety lever for left hand use was attached to second generation S&W automatics by a ******* dimensioned phillips head screw. Without thread locker they often backed out. S&W recognized it was a design fault. Third generation pistol safetys slide into a T slot where they are retained by a pin. A long time ago S&W quit selling the ******* phillips head screws. Their policy is to upgrade pistols that they get their hands on by replacing second generation safety barrel assemblies with third generation parts for about $100. For lack of screws it is common to see second generation automatics for sale with the off side safety missing.
Edit to add: Texas Star loves any excuse for getting out his Swiss Army knife. If there was an automobile that could be completely disassembled & put back together with a Swiss Army knife he'd be driving it.
Also I have to opine that in this context ******* is correct traditional English.
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02-01-2016, 09:27 PM
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I think the sideplate screws are too small in diameter to be practical with hex head. Star head maybe (?) but slot is actually the best choice assuming you have a screwdriver with a blade that fits preisely. The screws get ruined when people use thin blade screwdrivers on them.
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02-01-2016, 09:42 PM
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02-01-2016, 09:58 PM
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Fancy shotguns have the slots of certain screws all parallel. It's called "in time."
I read that they start with a long screw head that gets screwed in with lots of head to spare. The proper alignment is noted and the screw is removed. The screw is cut flush and with a new slot based on where they now know the slot should point.
Sure it's extra work but it looks real nice.
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02-02-2016, 02:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bushmaster1313
.... they start with a long screw head that gets screwed in with lots of head to spare. ....
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I always wondered how they timed those screw heads.
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02-02-2016, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kernel Crittenden
I always wondered how they timed those screw heads.
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Me, too. It does add to the classy looks of the guns.
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02-02-2016, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kernel Crittenden
I always wondered how they timed those screw heads.
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Bushmaster is right. The head of the screw is oversized--it's extra long and when installed sits proud of the surface. It's torqued properly and then marked for slot orientation and removed. A new slot is filed to a proper depth and then the head is filed off to be flush with the receiver or whatever it is.
A screw that goes into wood, say the rear trigger guard screw on a shotgun, is treated differently these days by many gunsmiths. The heads of those screws are normal. A slightly undersized pilot is drilled. A small amount of epoxy is put in the pilot and a release agent is applied to the screw which is driven into the hole until the slot is lined up. After the epoxy sets the release agent allows the screw to be removed. The hard part is getting the amount of epoxy right.
If you look through the Brownell's catalog you can see the special screws, slot cutting files and release agents used for doing all this.
I've done the epoxy/release agent trick for hinges on some of the higher end boxes I've made and on an old TC Hawken kit that sat around for years before I put it together. For a release agent I used hairspray which worked fine.
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02-02-2016, 11:01 AM
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Some of you boys got too much time on your hands.
Blessings
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02-02-2016, 01:02 PM
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"I love the Torx screws, but they require a special driver. Without the driver you're screwed (see what I did there?). Then there's the tamper resistant Torx. Those are really a pain if you don't have the special driver."
Torx heads are my favorite, and Torx drivers and bits are very common these days, not always so. I have a set which goes from teeny-tiny to about 1/4". The tamper-resistant heads have sort of pin in the center, and to remove them, there must be a little depression or hole in the bit or driver head to allow it to be inserted into the hole. I have some of those also, and have needed them on several occasions.
And indeed part of the original reason for Phillips-head screws was to prevent over-tightening.
Last edited by DWalt; 02-02-2016 at 01:04 PM.
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02-02-2016, 02:40 PM
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No mention of the long ago popular "bug" screws related to guns ? The tiny screw used to lock in the bigger screw.
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02-02-2016, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt
I have a set which goes from teeny-tiny to about 1/4".
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This is what I'm talking about. Even the terminology isn't common. Yes, they are becoming more common, but still not that common.
The smallest I've seen is a T5. I had to go buy a special one for my wife's Jeep because it was so enormous. I don't remember what size it was, but it was something like a T50. The most common size is T15 and T20.
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02-02-2016, 09:21 PM
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I'm no carpenter, but I help out in exchange for money. I don't know much about construction, but I've learned the value of the Torx in the wood butcher's trade. When applying a great many screws on a job, the Torz are far easier to master, and can be lined up and thrown in correctly with much greater ease than the Phillips. Holding the drill correctly is always necessary, but the T is far more forgiving. It also seems that the quality of lag bolts from China have been getting worse for over a decade, some of them twisting off a bit to easily, and they sure ain't what they used to be. The German built GRK structural screws, however, have become quite a suitable replacement, and with a bigger Torx head, even the big long screws are easy to drive in.
For machining, I cannot say anything, but in screwing wood to various things, I think the Phillips is completely obsolete. The glory days of the 3 inch slotted and Phillips wood screw are over.
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02-03-2016, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duckford
I don't know much about construction, but I've learned the value of the Torx in the wood butcher's trade.
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I much prefer the square drive for wood work. Super easy to use and the screws are generally higher quality. The biggest benefit is the bit will hold the screw so it can be driven one handed. I've had less success with this while using Torx.
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02-03-2016, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff
I much prefer the square drive for wood work. Super easy to use and the screws are generally higher quality. The biggest benefit is the bit will hold the screw so it can be driven one handed. I've had less success with this while using Torx.
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Magnet driver . . .
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02-03-2016, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff
This is what I'm talking about. Even the terminology isn't common. Yes, they are becoming more common, but still not that common.
The smallest I've seen is a T5. I had to go buy a special one for my wife's Jeep because it was so enormous. I don't remember what size it was, but it was something like a T50. The most common size is T15 and T20.
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My "teeny tiny" Torx driver has a tip diameter of about 0.055" and would be a T5. None of my smaller drivers has a size marking. The master size chart goes down to T1, which has a diameter of 0.031". It does seem that the most common Torx screws are T15 and T20 (0.128" & 0.151"). The largest size shown on the chart is a T100, with a tip diameter of 0.871". I don't know the meaning of the Torx size system, other than the larger the number, the larger the tip. I also have a Torx set that resembles a set of Allen wrenches, goes up to T25. Pretty handy, takes up little room.
" No mention of the long ago popular "bug" screws related to guns ? The tiny screw used to lock in the bigger screw. "
The term Bug Screw applies to both the locking screw for the upper sideplate screw, and the upper sideplate screw itself. I have never seen one without the typical slot head.
Last edited by DWalt; 02-03-2016 at 05:06 PM.
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02-03-2016, 05:01 PM
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What do you call the screws the put public bathroom stalls together with? You know, the ones you can tighten, but have no way to remove them.
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02-03-2016, 05:10 PM
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I would guess it would be called a tamper-proof head. I once installed some exterior slotted head screws in a place I didn't want them messed with easily, and filled the slots with solder.
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02-03-2016, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregintenn
What do you call the screws the put public bathroom stalls together with? You know, the ones you can tighten, but have no way to remove them.
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When I was a apprentice plumber way back when we called then Vandal proof.
Never did find out if that was the products real name or just a shop nick name!
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02-03-2016, 06:10 PM
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How about the bow tie screws? I was told they were Canadian. Seen a lot on older RV's.
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02-03-2016, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt
I would guess it would be called a tamper-proof head. I once installed some exterior slotted head screws in a place I didn't want them messed with easily, and filled the slots with solder.
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They are called tamper resistant slotted screws. The word "resistant" is used because with enough thought you can get around just about anything.
Tamper resistant screws come in about a zillion different styles. It's quite common for a box of them to come with a driver for the particular style.
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02-04-2016, 12:04 AM
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I replaced slotted with these hex heads to keep the blue aluminum Hogue's in place.
IMHO the symmetry adds to the look.
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Last edited by bushmaster1313; 02-04-2016 at 12:05 AM.
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02-04-2016, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eveled
How about the bow tie screws? I was told they were Canadian. Seen a lot on older RV's.
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I have also heard those called clutch head screws.
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02-04-2016, 01:04 AM
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I have several sizes of the bow tie/clutch head driver bits, but have never used them.
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02-04-2016, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins
Magnet driver . . .
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Not all screws are ferrous.
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02-04-2016, 10:28 AM
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I'm with Rastoff. The square heads are great. It's a darned strong system and the least likely to "cam out" of any of them. As far as over torquing, decent drivers have had clutches for many years.
And like he said you don't have to use a magnet to make one stay on the driver so you can punch it to start it.
Just about all cabinetmakers I know use them. I detest Philips heads.
But on a gun or any other fine work where the screw head is exposed give me good old slot heads . They just look better.
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02-04-2016, 10:45 AM
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Back to the OP's original question.... I believe my BG380 has a couple of allen head (hex) screws.
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02-04-2016, 03:32 PM
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Public Bathroom Stalls
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregintenn
What do you call the screws the put public bathroom stalls together with? You know, the ones you can tighten, but have no way to remove them.
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Obviously, those tamper-proof screws work.
When't the last time you saw someone walking through an airport carrying the stall doors he stole?
Last edited by A-37; 02-04-2016 at 06:52 PM.
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02-05-2016, 10:13 AM
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Repeat Question
Interesting comments throughout this thread but still no answer to my OP:
Are there any S&W handguns with other than straight-slotted screws?
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02-05-2016, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Interesting comments throughout this thread but still no answer to my OP:
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As I said... BG380
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02-05-2016, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadin
Back to the OP's original question.... I believe my BG380 has a couple of allen head (hex) screws.
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Confirmed?
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02-05-2016, 12:01 PM
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Laser adjustment......
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02-05-2016, 02:36 PM
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As k22fan said, some of the centerfire auto pistols with ambidextrous safetys used a philips-style screw to hold the right lever on. Some, like the one in the picture, used a hex head screw. The later T-slot-and-pin retainer was a more workman-like solution to keeping the right lever attached.
(Credit for photo goes to Rule3).
Last edited by tndrfttom; 02-05-2016 at 02:45 PM.
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02-05-2016, 10:29 PM
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Here is a 645 with a phillips
Muzzle of 500 S&W allen screw
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