Last Friday I was in San Marcos, TX for a school event for my granddaughter. San Marcos is a college town on IH35 between San Antonio and Austin.

I stopped at a red light and couldn't understand what I saw on the car to my right. The other car had the windows up and taped to the driver's side window were a driver's license and an insurance card. I have never seen this before - is it something the young people do in case they are stopped by the police?

Someone help me figure this one out.

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6/23/2022

There is a belief by some that police have no right to stop you if your information is visible.

A totally specious theory as officers can stop and detain you on suspicion of the violation of the law and can also require you to produce identification, all supported by past Supreme Court rulings. These wrong headed fools should fear their own stupidity as much as they fear and mistrust authority.

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Join the NRA today

I believe this is a libertarian or strict constitutionalist counter-measure to sobriety checkpoints.

At sobriety checkpoints, there is no suspicion, and no probable cause, to stop any particular individual; all vehicles are stopped, and police engage the drivers in conversation, looking for signs of impairment.

As I understand it, the legal rationale is that you are not required to speak to the police unless they have stopped you as an individual for a particular reason. Therefore, according to what I have seen posted online, you place your license and insurance information in a baggie and hang it outside your window as you slowly move along the checkpoint queue. In the baggie you place a note stating something to the effect that you do not wish to converse with the officer, and if he wishes to speak with you, you want your attorney present.

PLEASE NOTE: I am not endorsing this tactic, and I do not wish to start, or engage in, a debate about this subject. In making this post, I am simply seeking to answer the OP's question.

What Beemerguy said....

Armadillo:

Sorry, I'm not a LEO or Patrol Officer, but I do have an undergraduate degree in Biology, and I believe you found a member of stultus, mobile (mobile idiots). Sheesh! As if a cop's job isn't dangerous enough.

Regards,

Dave

Some people just don't like cops and while they will pull over if being stopped they refuse to have any to do with the officer.

Also some people are just weird

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

They probably don't pay the illegal income tax either.

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So many S&W's, so few funds!!

I always try to engage the police with conversation:

"Officer, you sure are ugly. Did your mother keep dropping you
on your face?"

Or

"Whatsa matter, officer, the wife not treating you right?"

Or

"I know the mayor, officer."

Sounds like an identity thief's paradise. The first thing the person will do after someone misuses the information he or she is displaying is call the police.

Love how idiotic people think they know the law enough that they can violate it.

My basic thought on the subject, Stupid is as Stupid does!

I would think that when a car with the DL and insurance hanging in the window goes through a checkpoint, someone might remember that car or write down the plate #. It just sounds like a good way to draw attention from LE. They better not have a taillight out.

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Wayne
Torn & Frayed

Thanks for the replies. I assumed it was an idea that sounded really brilliant when they were passing a joint around.

It screams "I'm up to no good" to me.

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6/23/2022

I have a masters degree in gettin' by low, slow and smooth. Hasseling LEO's does not help any situation. Following the law ain't that hard.

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Just a shooter

My reply to the last one was, "Well good, then you don't have to worry about this citation I am giving your right now."

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Loyalty Above All.. but Honor

Or: Good for you, I know him too.

Bill,

I would this as a reason to pull someone over, I would want to verify the license matched the driver. I would also look very closely at the car, out Vehicle & Traffic law was a very thick book with well over a 1000 violations.

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Baby Chief Admirer
SWCA 2870

That about sums it up.

I have no desire to have conversations with the police.

That's why I drive the speed limit and in accordance with applicable traffic laws.

Where required to speak to the police, I do so to the minimum extent required by law. Anything else is not to my benefit.

It might have been an Austin resident that got lost on the way home

These are the same people some years back that didn't burn their headlights at night because they had heard that it would 'wear out the battery'.

Anytime anybody says, "There is a new law..." that I haven't heard of, I'll look into it myself.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Mebbe 25 years ago, I was running radar on an elementary school crossing zone. 20 mph when active, 35 when not. Well marked, flashing yellow lights as well as signs. Big new Mercedes blows through at 48, nearly hits the big orange cone the elderly crossing guard puts out on the center markings. I go catch him, overhead lights on, he makes eye contact in his rear view mirror but doesn't even slow down. I add the siren. Another 10 or 15 seconds, then turn signal and slowly pulls over and stops. I go up to his window and he's talking on a then-new cell phone, the good old Motorola brick. He ignores me. I knock on the glass. He ignores me. I tap on the glass with my nightstick. He holds up his left hand and extends the index finger, like "Gimme a minute." He's already had a minute. I tap again. He slowly reaches down to the glove box and gets out a leather zippered pouch with the Mercedes logo on it. Slowly, still talking, he sorts through it and fins his registration. Then, same drill, into his suitcoat for his wallet and gets out his drivers license.

Then, he just sits there, still talking on the phone.

I tap the glass with the nightstick again. Loudly.

He puts the window down maybe a quarter of an inch. Slowly, he slides the license and registration out the window. I take them and he puts the window back up.

I went back to the patrol car and asked dispatch to check the party for warrants but to say, on the air, that the state's drivers license file is down.

"Bravo 2, negative on warrants. The state drivers license file is, uh, down. Plate comes back to..." and the plate matches the car and the name on the drivers license.

I fill out a citation, slowly, 47 in a school zone and speeding, 47 in a 35. And, I sit. And, I sit. And, I sit.

Finally, the driver gets out of his car and comes up to my window. I lower the glass about an inch and hand him the ticket and tell him the usual about his signature is not an admission of guilt, just a promise to appear, blah blah blah.

I put my window up and pick up my Motorola brick and call dispatch to chat while he signs his ticket and fumes.

Finally, I roll the window down an inch and he hands me back my ticket book. I tear him off his copy and slide it and the registration out the crack to him. He asks for his drivers license.

I tell him, "Dispatch said that the state drivers license system is down. I will check it later today. I can mail it back to you IF it comes back valid, or you can pick it up after 15:00 at the substation."

The man grew visibly angry. "I am a taxpayer! I pay your salary!"

"Thank you for that and maybe tomorrow, if you come by at the same speed as today, I'll stop you again and we can discuss my salary while we wait for the tow truck. Today is the 31st of the month, and your plate expires at midnight."

I then backed away from him, made a U turn and went back to the school zone. The crossing guard thanked me and said the same car had flown through the crossing at speed before.

I went and found my sergeant and told him about my exchange, expecting to be chewed out. He laughed and said, "Give me the license and I'll make sure he gets it back."

He gave it to our captain and told him the story and gave the captain my copies of the ticket.

The receptionist told me the results later. The man came into the station that afternoon, and the receptionist showed him into the captain's office. When the man began to complain, the captain cut him off and asked him what he was doing that caused one of his deputies to stop him. When the man began to get irate, the captain told him that speeding in a school zone was dangerous and that he would instruct me to book him into jail instead of citing him if I ever caught him doing that again. And please don't forget to pay his taxes and get his car license plate renewed.

The man asked, "Are you going to do anything about how that deputy treated me?"

The captain told him, "Well, if he doesn't do anything better, I may give him the "Deputy Of The Month" award. Sir, you make your own bed, you have to sleep in it sometimes."

That was the last I heard about it, after the secretary told me later. Captain never said anything to me.

I expected to go to trial on this ticket, people sometimes think a rude cop offsets what they were doing wrong, but he paid his fine and that was the end of it as far as I know.

The Supreme Court has stated that a police officer can, at a traffic stop, order everyone out of the car. The primary reason is safety, but it also allows the officer to gauge the physical condition of the driver for any additional signs of impairment, of which the original reason for the stop may be one.

This is a Florida lawyer explaining the rationale. I have no opinion one way or the other

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Retired Career Security Guard

That MIGHT work for administrative roadblocks, but in most states, such checks require a judge to issue an order beforehand permitting it and it will spell out what the officers are looking for and can require. If the judge authorizes drivers license and registration checks, and you won't give them, you will be directed to the side of the road and things will be explained. That is as far as anyone ever pushed it on any such stop I ever worked.

It won't work at all if you are stopped for a violation the officer saw or thinks he saw. You are required to produce your drivers license and registration as part of the agreement you made with your state when you got the license. The officer can book you into jail instead of issuing a citation and pursue an information. Once you are informed you are under arrest, the officer can use whatever force is reasonable and necessary to effect the arrest. Once you are under arrest, your vehicle will be searched incident to that arrest and will probably be impounded.

Explaining that to anybody I ever stopped always produced compliance. We have a fair number of so-called "constitutionalists" living around here and it always amazed me how many of them already had a valid license and were able to produce it when I explained what the alternatives were that were available. Even the few that had made up their own "travelers" license plates had current, valid plates in their car or truck.

By the way, I think of myself as a constitutionalist, although my definition was obviously different from theirs. I swore an oath to uphold it.

I'm certainly a constitutionalist, too, and this whole concept of a counter-measure to sobriety checkpoints.is stupid. First, you shouldn't be driving drunk*. Or buzzed*. Or high.* Second, if I was a police officer, my reaction to "I want a lawyer" would be "Fine, pull over there, if you want a lawyer you obviously think you need one so stay there and call your lawyer while I check to see if you need to be brought to a police station to discuss these matters with your attorney."

Sometimes criminal defense attorneys are too smart for their own good. If a lawyer gave me advice like that I'd tell him he was a freaking moron - and I'm an old lawyer and I WOULD SAY WORSE THAN THAT.

It's so much easier to take your ticket like a grown up. If you're not drunk, buzzed, or stoned (*see above about NOT doing that) just act like a grown up and cooperate, take your ticket, be nice to the LEO, and be done with it. It's not a contest to see if you can stand up to a lawman because you're a free citizen of America and you have rights. Driving is not a right - it's a privilege granted to you by the State and if you abuse it take your ticket and shut the heck up.

I could go on but you get my drift.......

1. The best way to avoid police contacts is avoid police attention. Drive the speed limit and in accordance with the traffic laws.
2. The above is the BEST way to avoid contact with police. it's NOT a GUARANTEE.
3. If 1 above does not work and the cop's on a fishing expedition, don't take the hook. Volunteer nothing and ask whether you're free to leave. If the answer is "no", or he refuses both to answer and to let you leave, invoke your rights to counsel and to remain silent. Do NOT consent to ANY searches. Do not RESIST, but do not CONSENT. Further interaction is decidely NOT in your best interests.

In Texas we never have to provide registration, just a license and proof of insurance. I have never carried my vehicle registration with me ever.

It's simple. Many people, some for very good reasons, have no desire to talk to police. Taping the license and ins card to the glass takes away LE's usually PC for forcing people to communicate with them..... but they can always fall back on the "you fit the description" excuse but that's another story. Or you were weaving or crossed over a yellow line or any other fake excuse.

Even if the tail light is OK, most cops can tell with a glance that somebody's headlights are out of adjustment just by their attitude......

Many here are justifiably concerned about losing our 2nd amendment rights. But it makes me nervous how many don't give the 4th amendment the same respect.

Looks like a obvious vision obstruction taped to the window right at eye level. Good reason to make the stop.
God am I glad I'm retired.

Cops don't need a "reason" to have you exit the car on a traffic stop, assuming the stop is constitutional. Maybe alcohol checkpoints are different, but being from MI, I never had the need to find out since they're "illegal" here, even though it was a Michigan case that went to the US Supreme Court that made them "legal" everywhere else.

Never figured out the rationale for people cracking the window and sliding their license out without having to talk to me. That was an automatic "Get out of the car, *******" before mandatory audio and video recording and an automatic "Get out of the car, sir...One....Two...Three....Four....Five....Six....Seven....Eight.....Nine....Ten.... Get out of the car, sir....One....Two...Three....Four....Five....Six....Seven....Eight.....Nine....Ten....Get out of the car, sir....One....Two...Three....Four....Five....Six....Seven....Eight.....Nine....Ten....You're under arrest for failing to obey the lawful or order of a police officer...." Followed by glass breaking. I always loved to use that spring-loaded punch I got on peoples' windows...They NEVER saw that coming. It almost made up for the lack of vent windows.... Pre-trial conferences were great too: "He GAVE him three chances and literally counted to ten between each chance.....It's right there on the video..." Never had to go to court on any.

If people will drive safely and obey the traffic laws just to avoid talking to the cops, well, that is all I wanted in the first place, for them to drive safely and obey the traffic laws. Safe driving is the whole goal of enforcement.

Thanks for providing a sterling example of the kind of abuse that has everybody recording everything police officers do these days. Thanks also for validating the concerns of people who try to avoid any contact with police officers.

I am the father, son-in-law, and brother of law enforcement officers, all of whom are or were honorable men. I would be ashamed to think that any of them behaved in the manner you described above.

So am I...

Here in the Peoples' Republic of Maryland, if you don't have your registration you'll get a ticket...

And here in Ohio, if you have an Ohio CHL and are armed, merely
presenting the CHL does NOT constitute "notification" for the purposes of the law, and could result in you being arrested and prosecuted for "failure to notify", and your CHL being revoked. Notification must be VERBAL.

I hated stops where the motorist became an instant roadside Supreme Court jurist. For several years, I worked a part of the city near one of the colleges. Everything from traffic stops to loud party calls would uncover another expert on law and 'rights'.
But - I viewed it as a test of my professionalism, and in that regard, I always won. Never took the bait, and succeeded in what I was sworn to do.
A real attitude from someone I dealt with did pretty much erase the discretion I was allowed however. Since they wanted to make it all about just business, hey, I was fine with that. Another name on the court docket bothered me none whatsoever.

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Ret'd LEO
SWCA #2275

My information comes from a former prosecutor, criminal defense attorney with 20+ years of experience.

Kudo's to your Brass. It wouldn't happen that way today I can tell you.

I live close to San Marcos and go there some what often. Next time I go I'll be looking out for IDs taped to the window.

So in other words, you're not a policeman, but you think you know what it's like....vicariously. Ad hominem attack. You never mentioned what part of it was abuse OR unconstitutional. What would your relatives do with someone who decided that THEY were in charge of a traffic stop. Just sit at the side of the road with their thumbs up their....."honor"? Three chances. Count em. No yelling, No undue force. Multiple chances, on video. YOU may want to stand out in the middle of a freeway with traffic going by inches from your body while some moron plays with you by sitting in the car, staring straight ahead and refusing to exit the car because it's full of smoke from the bowl he just smoked. Not me. I won't sit in my car while the guy approaches me on the side of the road either. You want to be in charge and call the shots while putting my life in danger, there are consequences. I don't take it personally, but there are no games played either.

After the person is out of the car and in cuffs, the car gets thoroughly inventory-searched too. And they get charged with whatever contraband is found on top of refusing a lawful order in addition to the initial reason for the stop. The time to tell the police what they can and can't do is in court, not at the side of the road. But if it gets to that point, most people who are bright enough to listen to the advice of their attorney will be invoking their fifth amendment right against self-incrimination.

Medical emergency? That's different. Old lady afraid that the guy in the uniform, with blue and red lights on the car that says "police" all over it isn't really the police? That might be also be different. A 20-something who has the wherewithal to crack the window and slide out his license, registration and insurance but refuses to exit the car while staring straight ahead and possibly pointing his phone at me to record my reaction? Nope. Playtime is over.

Also, those spring-loaded punches are great. No smacking the window multiple times with a baton and sending glass all over the driver, no damage to your flashlight, no drama on the video....The window is there, and then it's not. No fuss, no muss. And at that point, most formerly non-compliant subjects are more than happy to comply, if not a bit surprised that there isn't a cop standing outside their window at the side of the road, flummoxed by their brilliance.

When I'm carrying, my phone is recording audio.

That's come in handy on occasions when people were prone to concocting "ripping yarns".

I make sure my interests are protected, whether from a cop on a fishing expedition or a 350lb. bully trying to pick a fistfight because I was photographing him intentionally creating a traffic hazard and trying to frighten small children.

I have no problem with people video and audio-recording me at work. What they get is professional. What they get a lot LESS of is a break. Used to be if someone was a .09 with no history of drunk driving, they got a ride home. Not anymore. There's audio and video of them blowing a .09 on the street. Used to be when your kid got popped with a joint, if he or she wasn't a known troublemaker, the weed was discarded and they went on their way. Not anymore. Now they have a record....because there's video and audio of the stop. Used to be if you were carrying a gun in your car improperly and didn't have a CPL, you were sent on your way with a lecture about how the next guy might arrest you for a felony. Not any more......video.....And when people get arrested, they get searched incident to arrest and their car gets inventory searched. And all SORTS of things get found in those situations. Job-denying, life-changing things. Because there's video.....And the video and audio is all accessible through the Freedom of Information act to any employer, parent, or private investigator who wants it.

Ask any cop about the narcissistic parents they've had to deal with when their kids gets popped for a small amount of weed. "This will affect him when he tries to get a job after he gets out of the tier one college we're sending him to!" Yep.

I find that the way to avoid DUI arrests is to not drink and drive. Given that I'm usually carrying, I can't drink AT ALL when out of the house. Being able to defend myself from an unlawful deadly force attack is far more important to me than to be able to drink in public. Some people consider that eccentric.

Likewise, you're less likely to get speeding tickets if you don't speed. Again, some consider that an odd attitude to take.

I'm always somewhat puzzled by people who think that various laws don't apply to them. If you need "breaks", it's because you're doing something you shouldn't be. But then there are some people who just don't feel right unless they think they're getting away with something. I dislike such people and try to avoid them.

Officer discretion is an important part of law enforcement. I don't think a kid should be screwed out of a job when he gets out of college or high school because he got caught with a small amount of marijuana on him, or for various other bad decisions. Nor do I think someone's insurance rates should go up disproportionately to the minor traffic violation he committed. But, that happens and to whatever extent I could, I always tried to give a person a break while still doing my job. But.....when it came to people purposefully making my job harder or less safe due to the narcissistic entitlement mentality that seems to be so much more common these days than it used to be....... Well, the letter of the law has its place too....

I try to stick to it. It keeps me from having to pretend to be somebody I'm not and do things I'd rather not do.

RSanch111 and BUFF: I'm glad you're out there, and I appreciate your dedication and service to the community. Keep up the good work, and watch your six. I've been in your shoes, and I will always support those who enforce the law and uphold the Constitution.

In WV it is a violation to put anything on the glass of your vehicle that may obscure your vision.

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Who are those guys?

I got a ticket last week, for driving on a marked roadway, and the guy who gave it to me used to work for me back when he was a rookie. He said "sorry, Lt". I said do your job, sarge. Went home and paid the fine on line the next day. Easy Peasy.