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Old 05-14-2016, 10:28 AM
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No-dash vs Dash... what's the real story? No-dash vs Dash... what's the real story? No-dash vs Dash... what's the real story? No-dash vs Dash... what's the real story? No-dash vs Dash... what's the real story?  
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Default No-dash vs Dash... what's the real story?

I tried to find this "hot button" topic through the search but couldn't uncover anything definitive in a stand-alone thread so here goes.

Some here, and elsewhere, won't abide a "dash" gun, supposedly. Yet some dash guns seem to have nearly a cult following (e.g., 27-2).

Other than bragging rights, what's the deal? Is a 27-2 a better shooter than a 27 (no dash)? Or are the -2s simply more readily available?

Why is a 17-3 (last year of the pinned barrel, as far as I can tell) more sought after than a 17 (no dash)? For guns of seemingly equal quality the 17-3s seem to command a higher premium.

Is there some enhancement in these particular, and maybe other, dash guns that make them more desirable?

The 5 and 4-screw models offer their own bragging rights, especially in the collector-grade guns, but I'm after a better shooter so the no-dash bragging rights of a BBQ gun aren't a factor to me when it comes to pulling the trigger (figuratively and literally).

Thanks for your insight.

Cheers,

Bob
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Old 05-14-2016, 11:02 AM
CBus660R CBus660R is offline
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No-dash vs Dash... what's the real story? No-dash vs Dash... what's the real story? No-dash vs Dash... what's the real story? No-dash vs Dash... what's the real story? No-dash vs Dash... what's the real story?  
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First, you have to look at whether the changes to create the new dash version were to improve the quality of the gun or to ease manufacturing (i.e. save S&W $$$). Then you have to look at production numbers. To really understand, you have research the particular model you're interested in. You can't generically say a -2 is worth more than a -3 or vice versa.
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Old 05-14-2016, 11:15 AM
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No-dash vs Dash... what's the real story? No-dash vs Dash... what's the real story? No-dash vs Dash... what's the real story? No-dash vs Dash... what's the real story? No-dash vs Dash... what's the real story?  
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Originally Posted by CBus660R View Post
First, you have to look at whether the changes to create the new dash version were to improve the quality of the gun or to ease manufacturing (i.e. save S&W $$$). Then you have to look at production numbers. To really understand, you have research the particular model you're interested in. You can't generically say a -2 is worth more than a -3 or vice versa.
This^

The dash was ment to signify a change in manufacturing. Sometimes it added features, sometimes it deleted features. Sometimes the features were not relevant to function but made manufacturing easier.

For example. Model 19.
19 (1957): Stamping of model number.
19-1 (1959): Change extractor rod, right to left-hand thread
19-2 (1961): Cylinder stop changed, deleted triggerguard screw: Introduce 2.5" barrel as standard: introduced 6 inch barrel:
19-3: Relocation of rear sight leaf screw: Delete diamond-insert grip

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Old 05-14-2016, 11:38 AM
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jThe dash was ment to signify a change in manufacturing. Sometimes it added features, sometimes it deleted features. Sometimes the features were not relevant to function but made manufacturing easier.

For example. Model 19.
19 (1957): Stamping of model number.
19-1 (1959): Change extractor rod, right to left-hand thread
19-2 (1961): Cylinder stop changed, deleted triggerguard screw: Introduce 2.5" barrel as standard: introduced 6 inch barrel:
19-3: Relocation of rear sight leaf screw: Delete diamond-insert grip

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Thanks for the specifics.

Some subtle, some significant changes in a short period. Thanks for the detailed example. And where to you find such details, does the Smith catalog list them? Barbara ordered the 4th Ed. for me so I should have it next month (I hope).

So... thinking out loud here... before the dashes how did S&W identify changes in models? I know the Model of 1905 is often identified as first through fourth change, but was that the standard for all models' changes?

Thanks again,

Bob
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Last edited by two-bit cowboy; 05-14-2016 at 11:41 AM. Reason: add a question
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Old 05-14-2016, 11:55 AM
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[QUOTE=two-bit cowboy;139088032]Thanks for the specifics.

Some subtle, some significant changes in a short period. Thanks for the detailed example. And where to you find such details, does the Smith catalog list them? Barbara ordered the 4th Ed. for me so I should have it next month (I hope).

So... thinking out loud here... before the dashes how did S&W identify changes in models? I know the Model of 1905 is often identified as first through fourth change, but was that the standard for all models' changes?

Thanks again,

Bob[/QUOTE

Wait for "The Book"..... and all questions will be answered!!!!!

I've got the 3rd Edition and it's my most used reference source on all things S&W..and is now heavily annotated with info on my Smiths and points of personal interest gain here on the Forum........... eagerly waiting for my 4th Edition................pre-ordered on Amazon
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Old 05-14-2016, 03:26 PM
CBus660R CBus660R is offline
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No-dash vs Dash... what's the real story? No-dash vs Dash... what's the real story? No-dash vs Dash... what's the real story? No-dash vs Dash... what's the real story? No-dash vs Dash... what's the real story?  
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Originally Posted by BAM-BAM View Post
Wait for "The Book"..... and all questions will be answered!!!!!
This! I picked up my 3rd Edition a few years back and have spent many an evening reading it. It really is a great book just to learn the history of S&W. Even if you're not a collector or S&W fan (but you wouldn't be here now would you!), I'd put it up there as some of the best money I've spent on "guns".

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Old 05-14-2016, 03:46 PM
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No-dash vs Dash... what's the real story? No-dash vs Dash... what's the real story? No-dash vs Dash... what's the real story? No-dash vs Dash... what's the real story? No-dash vs Dash... what's the real story?  
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I will add my standard annoyed complaint to the S&W "mad dash" saga! I will probably add the same annoyed complaint until someone gets sick enough of hearing it that they yell at me for sharing it again.

I understand, accept and even LIKE the dash-system but it's kind of obnoxious how very little S&W has been rigid in using it. And where I want to complain specifically is with my Model 17-6. My 17-6 was purchased in November or December 1989 and it came with the standard target barrel that most of us recognize across the very long history of the K-22 Masterpiece but it was also with the 17-6 that S&W elected to move to a full-lug barrel.

The full-lug barrel (and especially on a .22cal K-frame) is a gargantuan change in the look, feel, weight, balance, curb appeal and, well, pick and other descriptive terms and they most likely apply.

Changing the BARREL did not (apparently) warrant a dash-change on the Model 17. Some of them came with the standard target barrel like mine, later ones got the full-lug barrel.

To me, this seems ludicrous. When you look across the many S&W revolvers and dash-changes, how would you possibly make the case that this one didn't warrant a dash change?
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Old 05-14-2016, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by two-bit cowboy View Post
Thanks for the specifics.

Some subtle, some significant changes in a short period. Thanks for the detailed example. And where to you find such details, does the Smith catalog list them? Barbara ordered the 4th Ed. for me so I should have it next month (I hope).

So... thinking out loud here... before the dashes how did S&W identify changes in models? I know the Model of 1905 is often identified as first through fourth change, but was that the standard for all models' changes?

Thanks again,

Bob
Many things you can find online just by searching the specific model. Other things you just remember from reading but the book will probably be your best bet

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Old 05-14-2016, 09:33 PM
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No-dash vs Dash... what's the real story? No-dash vs Dash... what's the real story? No-dash vs Dash... what's the real story? No-dash vs Dash... what's the real story? No-dash vs Dash... what's the real story?  
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Ah, ha. Thanks to all for your endorsement of the book. I'm looking forward to spending time reading, re-reading, and trying to remember the bits that I'm most interested in.

BAM-BAM: thanks, too, for mentioning your annotations. Great idea. I took notes in the margins of my text books -- this is a text book, after all, right?

Thanks again to all,

Bob
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Old 05-14-2016, 11:22 PM
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Sevens:

A lot of the dash number stuff has to do with ordering and stocking replacement parts for repairs. Model 17-6 barrels don't need a dash number to be ordered and fitted, while some action parts may. Same reason while barrel lengths don't each have their own dash number.

I had a 17-6 with the regular barrel. On a .22, I don't like the underlug, it's unnecessary weight to me.
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Old 05-15-2016, 12:31 AM
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A different dash does not mean that any specific revolver of the same model is either better or worse in performance than one with any other dash (or even no dash), only that there are some differences between the two. But some dash numbers are much scarcer than others, and therefore usually bring a higher market price. Point in example. Many feel that the Model 29-3 (and later) is greatly inferior to those made earlier, and are near-worthless junk. That is because the 29-3 (and later) revolvers no longer have pinned barrels or recessed chambers, and this is somehow taken by some to indicate abysmally poor quality. In fact, those changes make absolutely no difference in the quality of the gun, just an omission of unnecessary features which do not affect quality and performance at all, thereby simplifying manufacture.
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Old 05-15-2016, 07:15 AM
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A final note from me: IIRC cus it's too early and I'm too lazy to look it up in "The Book"......................

one of the dash changes on the L-frame (-3?) is because the top strap was drilled and tapped for a scope mount......................but when they went to all round butt frames in 95/96 they were still all -4s. While earlier -5s were "mostly" .38s for export to South America.

Fun with S&W..... as they never throw anything away giving us "transition" models.......... and uncatalogued guns................

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Old 05-15-2016, 01:32 PM
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No-dash vs Dash... what's the real story? No-dash vs Dash... what's the real story? No-dash vs Dash... what's the real story? No-dash vs Dash... what's the real story? No-dash vs Dash... what's the real story?  
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Thanks BUFF, that's the first time anyone has offered any manner of an explanation of why such a major change (at least IMO) was not reflected in a dash change. And I have dropped that tale in a couple different forums and discussions for nearly a decade. Never have I heard even a suggestion as to why. Thank you!
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