Well, I guess the old adage .."a fool and his money are soon parted" applies to me.

I bought a S&W Mdl 28-2 off of Armslist from Joyce Haytt, Normal Ill. posted pics supplied by her as my new to me 28.

One week later and she no longer answers my e-mails and today I get a scam alert from Armslist about the add. the following is pics of the gun advertised.

I will file a police report and report it to the USPS. I hate to admit I have been had......but...... I H A V E B E E N H A D

Crooked people suck

I hope other members here look at these pics and beware... I do not want anyone else taken as I and 3 others on Armslist have.

This is exactly why Armslist advises folks to buy local only.

I've purchased exactly 1 firearm off Armslist. And though I did finally receive the firearm in question, for a little while I didn't think I was going to. If I was ever to do it again, I would only buy local off it.

There appears to be no way for that site to police their sellers. I do not buy from Armslist for that reason. Stick with the reputable gun auctioneers and big online gun sites like Gunbroker, GunsAmerica, GunsInternational, etc. There is never an absolute guarantee that there are not crooks on these websites, but they are few and quickly weeded out. Gun auction companies are probably the least likely to promote fraud, since their reputation is on the line with every sale. Juila, Watson, Rock Island, Poulin, etc. offer many auctions per year and lots of S&Ws.

It would be interesting to know how many buyers have had bad experiences dealing with Armslist?

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Years ago I decided that even though many sellers on Armslist are undoubtedly legitimate, the opportunity for mischief was just too high. I determined never buy a gun from an Armslist offering and never have. I'm sorry for your experience, and I hope that some remedy will emerge for you.

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David Wilson

My first three on armslist were attempted scams,the fourth was legitimate.All were advertised as local.

Never fear I will not do Armslist again and further will recommend against them to all my friends and family.

I have had multiple great experiences both buying and selling on armslist. Twice I have sold a second gun to a previous buyer- but local face to face ONLY!

Thank you for posting your experience.

Where some people might have felt too embarrassed to admit what happened, you chose to take the high road and alert those of us out there that may have followed suit.

Gratefully,
Jim

Buy local or I'm sure the many dealers on there would be legit.

Often times when I see something to good to be true I copy and paste the first sentence of the ad into google. Many times the same gun is listed on gunbroker, or on other sites. I've noticed the scams seem to be happening less fruequently lately but there still out there.

I second this opinion!
Jim #2

Devildog72, sorry to hear this happened. I have successfully bought from the big 3 online auctions listed above many times, but would never trust Armslist as too many scams have been perpetrated on that site.

Hopefully you paid with USPS money order. If so, it will be investigated by their postal investors and prosecuted by them.

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2B1ASK1

I see scam postings on the Arizona backpage daily. The dead giveaways are

- deal too good to be true (ie. Mint prewar HD for $450)
- non local phone number
- sketchy email address
- google email address and more sketchy ads show up

It's unfortunate that the scammers are out there, but hopefully threads like these saves at least someone's bacon. I also stick to FTF transactions and GunsInternational/Gunbroker too.

SVT28

I have also bought other guns on line with good experiences.
The so called seller and I exchanged many emails with me asking a lot of questions. It all sounded good and we made the deal. I sent an USPS MO and we exchanged more e-mails. She kept giving excuses why she could not send the gun right away... I was loosing my patience and began to get that sick feeling I had been taken......

She quit responding to my e-mails and today I got several scam alerts from Armslist about this seller.

I truly hope this thread can/will help someone else.

Did you contact a Postal Inspector?

Armslist to me is ONLY for FTF deals

Anytime or from any gun sales site if the seller is not an FFL then I will only fork over the money when face to face and can see the gun.
Same thing when I sell a gun. No out of state sales.
Yep there are way to many scammers looking to find someone to swallow the hook, line and sinker. I have been stuck a few times but luckily I was able to get back in the boat.
People will take pictures off an ad and then post it for sale as theirs. It happens way to often.

If I still had money to buy guns, or had surplus guns I wanted to sell (neither is true) I would only do it face to face with the other party, and sell only for cash.

I didn't get this old and nasty by being real trusting.

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Oh well, what the hell.

I hate to be nosy, but how much did you lose? I understand if you choose not to divulge. Sorry to hear a fellow Texan was bilked. We have all been there once.

Devildog:

Sorry you were taken. It unfortunately can happen to about any of us. There was another recent thread about scams. One poster recommended to the OP that they file an online complaint at Ic3.

Ic3 is the internet crime complaint center Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) | Home

It was good counsel and I'd encourage you to tell them your story too. While it might not get your losses recovered, it might help someone else not be scammed.

I posted the following over in the other thread:

Our local FBI agent swears that someone somewhere is actually reading those submissions and looking hard for the common threads, connecting the dots and trying to catch these thieves. I want to believe him.

I certainly encourage people who ask me about scams on the net to report there. It certainly can't hurt, and the worst thing that can happen is nothing comes of it. It's certain that nothing will come of it if you never tell anyone.


Wasn't long ago I went down the street and walked my elderly neighbor through an ic3 referral. A heartbreaking experience really, this old couple had been scammed out of many thousands of $.

I hate to say it , but about a month ago . I inquired about a 57-1 that was listed . It was a scam it was easy to spot . But not at first there are a few easy things to do to pick out scams . First copy and paste the description the seller posts into google it almost always comes up word for word . Or use google search image . I posted about her on facebook . Unfournatley your probably never gonna see your money ...

I've had great success buying and selling on Armslist also. But as 67whaler states - Face To Face Only.

Sorry the bad people got to you!

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Dan
Ps 96 SWCA 2930 SWHF 524

Bingo. Freaking scamsters suck.

I was scammed a month ago. But not on arms list. Yes I was stupid, but between all the boards I have nearly 200 transactions. Never a problem. So I was too trusting.

I think 99% of us on the gun boards are as honorable as a person can be. But remember some crooks realize this and are happy to take advantage of our honor. I'm happy I haven't been ripped off worse.

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Just hanging with my dogs

Sadly, it can happen on any internet selling site. Being a musician I hear all the time about CL and ebay scammers. Buyer beware and good luck for all your future transactions.

If you mailed a USPS MO to a street address, find out the local LE and make a complaint. They can go find this person and make it right. The postal inspector route is good, but may not get your $$$ back.

If you feel comfortable, please post all of the contact info for the scammer here so we can share it with other buyers.

I usually ask for a phone number and call to speak to a real human. It is usually pretty clear whether they are legit or not.

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On the Oak Savannah

Unfortunately, Armslist seems to accumulate more scammers than other gun auction / sales websites. Sorry for your loss. It's a tough world out there. A few times I sweated the return of my certified payment on a very respectable (pre-internet) publication.

Some people use other forums, like this one and others similar, with a brand new user name asking about a nice or scarce piece then the offers just start rolling in on an item he / she does not have but rather only "lifted" pictures form someplace else.

I think this crime is Federal, scams that span to different States, and it's mail fraud as well as other illegalities.

One excuse was, even though I was first to call to accept his ask price, someone called afterward to offer him more money. He thought that was perfectly OK but I did get my cashier's check back about 10 days later in a US First Class envelope when I sent it to him Overnight. I truly sweated that one it was for $7K.

Another time, an old timer in Idaho, sold me what was to be (no pictures back then, just a text classified ad type description), an original 98% New Model 3 Australian, for $2,500.00 which was the correct price and a tick more for one if it was as described. After if was delivered, it was clearly refinished even over pits, with the hammer, trigger and trigger guard nickel-ed, too.

I called him to return it but before I could explain he told me a contractor was putting a new porch on his house with the money. Afterward he said I could return it and he'd get the money together, somehow. I decided to keep it instead of risk loosing the money and the gun, selling it 10 years later, presenting it for exactly what it was (a refinished NM3 Australian) for the same money I paid.

I suppose all of us, at one time or another, got blatantly scammed, not including the times we may have bought into a tall tale and plopped down way too much money based upon that "tall tale".

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ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425

Face to face and I must examine the arm before I buy it .
If there are any questions, we go to the local indoor range for a "test drive".
Before you buy a car , you get to eyeball it , kick the tires, sit in it and take it for a drive , right !
Gary

Sorry to hear of your misfortune. I avoid Armslist like the
plague!

Don't think just because it's a a gun auction company it's on the up and up either. I reported a seller to Gunbroker who was one of their top sellers that was using shill bidders. I gave them a list of the shill names and all the auctions they bid on. The list was quite long, over 50 auctions. I could have given them more but I just used active auctions not sold. They did NOTHING. They just want the fees. I won't buy anything from them. Today it's buyer beware.

Thanks to you, Armslist will tempt me no more! Thanks, REALLY!

Thanks to all that have responded to my post/thread. Armslist sent me an e-mail today and assured me they would co-operate with Law Enforcement to the fullest extent.
This has been a frustrating and expensive schooling. My bad. I will recover and I will press charges.

Thanks again for y'alls comments each and every one.

The couple transactions made on Armslist were local. We met face to face, dealt in cash and in both cases, the seller asked to see my CCDW. I guess they wanted to be sure they weren't selling to a felon.

I appreciate that some folks have good experiences with Armslist, but I just can't bring myself to trust it. I've had 100% good luck with GB and GunsAmerica. I'll stick with them and the many online stores I've dealt with over the years.

That sucks. Plain and simple.

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So many S&W's, so few funds!!

I have had two good deals with Armslist. What I normally do is check to see if the user who post the deal is new to the site, if they are new, I automatically ignore the listing. Also, I always copy the text of the ad into google to see if anything comes up. Pictures also tell the story, especially if they are pulled from high volume sellers on broker.

I'd shower in the Penn State locker room before I'd purchase from Armslist.

Yeah, I echo the FTF only advice.

I used to sell on Armslist every once in a while. I'd bring a counterfeit pen too. If the buyer questioned it, I'd just say I'd been burned once by someone who looked trustworthy (true, 2 of the 8 $100s were phony). This is still something I do, while the NICS check by an FFL has to be done here in WA, you still take the cash directly from the buyer.

That blows. I hope you get some settlement but I wouldn't hold my breath. I have heard NOTHING good about that Armslist site.
I hope your Karma changes and you find a RM dirt cheap to make up for it.

I could use some good karma, I hope that RM can wait till I rebuild my bank account.... man would a RM be sweeeeeeeeeet

Off topic, would someone explain how to watermark the photos we post here or link to from here?

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Tom in AZ
Respect the Dingbat

I never buy from private sellers on armslist, but I have bought a couple ruger revolvers from a brick and mortar gun shop that advertises on there.

No problems what so ever

I have seen several of my guns posted for sale on Armslist. They took my photos and offered my guns for a good price. I hope no one sent them money, as they would not have been able to fulfill the transaction. I immediately marked them as a scammer, but it seemed to take a long time before the Armslist system flagged the item with a fraud alert. I have rarely seen a gun on Armslist that I was interested in that I hadn't found listed for sale somewhere else or on a closed GunAuction site.

Too bad,🙁

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Richard
Engraved S&W fan

It's always a bummer when you find out what you always knew. People suck.

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- Jeff

Even when I do get excited for one, most of the time it's because the info was wrong. Like the guy who listed a 29-1 that turned out to be a 29-4.

I have not been scammed by Armslist so I'll probably get raked over for this post and I truly am sorry to ever hear about anyone getting scammed by anybody, anywhere. Work with local LEO and the USPS and hopefully you'll get recovery AND put the scumbag out of business (preferably in jail).

I have both bought, and sold several times via ArmsList, and yes, it is preferable for FTF in your State, but I have had offers from out of state for my Python, Colt OMM's, 41 byf Black Widow Luger, and others.

Several tips come to my mind that have been helpful: If you are buying....ALWAYS check the sellers registration date...IF not registered, or recently then RULE 1: RUN...DON'T WALK. Next is ALWAYS e-mail for recent (date mode enabled) photos of something obscure (like s/n under the barrel, frame with grips off, etc.) sometimes you won't even get a reply (see Rule 1). Send a couple follow up e-mails and watch the address of the reply. If phone numbers (for texting) are noted, or cell phones, watch out, or at least be wary. If ANY laws (you know yours, and honorable sellers know theirs...in any state) appear to be "skirted" or being given the impression of "OK" to bypass (1986 Model 29 listed as "C&R ok", etc. also be wary.

If you are selling on Armslist then still demand paperwork of some sort, just to protect your own #$$ if the buyer is not legal, or shouldn't even have it. You know the FFL rules when you buy a handgun, or even long guns in some states. I use a BATF approved Bill of Sale (see attachment) whereby both buyer and seller are: fully identified, gun is fully identified, buyer and seller understand there is no warranty and sign for same, etc. I have has potential buyers say "I don't like paperwork using my personal information" My reply, including face-to-face where I have the same BoS in play is "then don't waste my time or yours because it is a no-sale". I am not that desperate for a sale, and I haven't found anything that I have to have that bad.

Once you have some info if you are not doing a face to face is to check out the buyers FFL....look for a real address, not a p.o. box. Google it, or call to verify creds and make sure they will accept and process the sale (maybe they know something in their state about the buyer that you don't).

Anyway.........even with all of the above I find Armslist not much different than any other stranger to stranger dealing..scam artists will occasionally get over on us honest people, but I don't think they should give every venue a totally bad name.

Even if FTF you can always ask up front about price, terms of payment, return options if misrepresented and judge what you want to do from the replies of the seller.

Attached Files

Firearm_Bill_of_Sale.pdf (31.5 KB, 33 views)

I cannot abide by that mindset. In the past 40 years of collecting I choose to evaluate whomever I speak with or meet to make my own, individual, assessments of each rather than generalize it to "all".

Sure, there are story tellers, high pressure salesmen, people who make vague inferences eluding to a tale that is mostly fictitious or without credibility and liars, too, but, for the most part the majority of collectors are basically good people.

Serious collectors, most of us having a life-long reputation to uphold, act and speak with genuine intent and promise. In this tight-knit world where a man's word is still his bond, his "word" (promise) is what distinguishes him.

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ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425

One common theme I've run across on armslist is a listing in your area,but when setting up a meeting they are suddenly in another state****n away!
I did buy a nice colt from a seller who was willing to meet me at my lgs last fall.
I had given up on armslist years earlier and just happened to glance at it the day he listed it