Accidental death at range yesterday

[OLDSTER]

An unfortunate, and accidental, shooting at an outdoor range near here resulted in the death of a 14 year old girl yesterday. Witnesses say she was at the range with her family, and it appeared a family member was shooting from one of the benches, and turned to talk to her, swinging the rifle in her direction. This is a really well managed outdoor range, and this is the first accident reported since the range opened in the 70s. We just can't be too careful

[bamabiker]

Very sad. Prayers for that family.

[da gimp]

dammmmmmmmm.

[jack the toad]

Yes, you can never be too careful. If the shooter was familiar with the safety rules, complacency can also kill. Very tragic and sad.

[alwaysoutdoors]

Prayers to those involved.

[Targets Guy]

Such a waste. You have to maintain safety posture at all times. Serious work.

[Rivoak]

There goes another reason why I don't shoot on public ranges.


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[Inusuit]

Prayers to the family, who must be devastated by this unfortunate incident. The shooter will live with this the rest of his/her life.

[The Big D]

Sad and disturbing news...but this is pure negligence (at best) not accidental.

Be safe.

[SC_Mike]

A senseless tragedy. Prayers for all.

[Kenny53]

That is heart breaking.

[df06]

What a tragedy

[blues7]

Beyond tragic.

Definitely gives me pause about shooting around folks not of my own choosing in the future.

[snubbyfan]

Very tragic but can serve as a lesson to all.

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Tragic.

Don't know the particulars in the case, but I've seen a lot of well experienced disciplined shooters have a split second brain fart, doing something themselves that they would eagerly lecture and criticize others for.

Little girls hollers out, startling the family member who instinctively turns to her... who knows? But it can happen in an instant.

Boys, keep those muzzles pointed down range.

[revolver59]

Very sad to hear!! Prayers for her family.

[Comrad]

The tragedy I see is a poorly trained shooter who doesn't know where the muzzle or his trigger finger belong when he's not on target.

[tlawler]

Heartbreaking...my prayers go out to her loved ones.

[SW MP15]

Heart Breaking. I'm truly sorry to hear. I can't imagine what the family is going through! Sad Sad Day!

[Scrapper]

Our prayers go out to the family.

[PatriotX]

What a tragedy.


The fact that it was preventable, makes it even more tragic.

[pittpa]

I wonder what he meant by "no direct negligence". I investigated accidents, most of which were caused by negligence, for 29 years and don't recall this term. Someone shot her. That's pretty direct, and negligent.
14-year-old dies at Bismarck shooting range in apparent accident | The Dickinson Press

[lhump1961]

I can't imagine how devastating that must be to the family. I'm not sure I could ever recover if I were the shooter. Accident?...yes. Negligence?...sorry but yes.

Very, very tragic.

[federali]

It seems to me that inexperienced minors need to be closely supervised when handling firearms. This family tragedy could have been avoided had the people in question received basic gun handling instructions.

But then, if you search the youtube videos, you'll see lots of so-called adults doing mindlessly stupid things with firearms. I don't have an answer to these tragedies.

[medic15al]

Originally Posted by pittpa

I wonder what he meant by "no direct negligence". I investigated accidents, most of which were caused by negligence, for 29 years and don't recall this term. Someone shot her. That's pretty direct, and negligent.
14-year-old dies at Bismarck shooting range in apparent accident | The Dickinson Press

No direct negligent distinguishes itself from direct by the totality of circumstances. Use this incident as an example as no direct, as while you can use another case as direct, Involving construction workers goofing off and tossing a crowbar to each other resulting in it falling several stories and killing another worker.

IOW: The original action in direct negligence was dangerous and reckless to begin with, while the other was NOT acting in a reckless activity prior to the incident.

[pittpa]

Not that it makes any difference, it seems like a young persons' mistake, turning the head and whatever is in hand at the same time. I've seen it on a bicycle with bad results. Hopefully it is conditioned out when one learns to drive a car.
EDIT, but must be trained out when learning to use a gun!

[shouldazagged]

Damn, damn, bugger and blast.

[Vulcan Bob]

Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil

Tragic.

Don't know the particulars in the case, but I've seen a lot of well experienced disciplined shooters have a split second brain fart, doing something themselves that they would eagerly lecture and criticize others for.

Little girls hollers out, startling the family member who instinctively turns to her... who knows? But it can happen in an instant.

Boys, keep those muzzles pointed down range.

Boys, keep those muzzles pointed down range and your finger off the trigger!

[the ringo kid]

This tragedy is heart-breaking. I will pray for the lost loved one and those involved.

[BB57]

Originally Posted by medic15al

No direct negligent distinguishes itself from direct by the totality of circumstances. Use this incident as an example as no direct, as while you can use another case as direct, Involving construction workers goofing off and tossing a crowbar to each other resulting in it falling several stories and killing another worker.

IOW: The original action in direct negligence was dangerous and reckless to begin with, while the other was NOT acting in a reckless activity prior to the incident.

The way I read the article's reference to no direct negligence is that the victim didn't directly contribute to the accident by being in the wrong place. In other words if the victim had walked down range when the range was hot, there would have been direct negligence on the part of the victim.

The shooter was clearly and very directly negligent by failing to exercise both proper muzzle discipline and proper trigger discipline. There is no way around that as those failures create a very direct risk.

[JSR III]

Being the father of two girls, this is heartbreaking. One of the first things that we taught new shooters was to keep the muzzle pointed down range and your finger off the trigger until ready to fire.

Even with that, it always amazes me when I look at either our indoor our outdoor range and see the number of bullet holes that didn't end up in a target.

[zzzippper]

Lots of lives ruined in an instant. Sad.

[Lee's Landing Billy]

My heart cries for these folks. I've told this before, but it bears repeating. I have 20 hard men that shoot here. The majority are military men with in depth training. Some are State champions in different pistol and National champions in rifle. I have 3 covered areas, 2 at 25 yards and 1 at 100 yards. 2 of the 3 have bullet holes in them!!! .30 hole in 100 yard top and 9mm hole in 25 yard post. I have had 3 NDs in 50+ years of shooting. In the last 12 years shooting every day. I thank the shooting Gods that mine were pointed down range. If you have never had a round go off that was early or you just weren't ready to go off..You are a lucky shooter. OR don't shoot much. Please, watch the people around you and do not hold back for fear of hurting someone's feelings. Believe me, if you are careless here, you will think the sky fell on your head. God Bless this 14 year old Angel. The Angels in Heaven are singing tonight to welcome her home.

[lrrifleman]

A very tragic accident. Sadly, someone is going to have to live with that mistake for the rest of their life.

[cowboy4evr]

I hate going to public ranges . If you watch , sooner or later you will see the guy next to you or a booth down fiddling with his semi auto . Holding it crosswise in front of him , pointed at YOU . Be Alert to not only what you are doing , but the guy next to you .

[lrb1200]

So sad a thread, I'm sorry I even opened it up to read it.

It could have been prevented,

[rwsmith]

Originally Posted by Comrad

The tragedy I see is a poorly trained shooter who doesn't know where the muzzle or his trigger finger belong when he's not on target.

...that if he knew and followed a few simple rules the girl would still be alive.

[pittpa]

Originally Posted by cowboy4evr

I hate going to public ranges . If you watch , sooner or later you will see the guy next to you or a booth down fiddling with his semi auto . Holding it crosswise in front of him , pointed at YOU . Be Alert to not only what you are doing , but the guy next to you .

Happens at private ranges, too.

[SevenMilePete]

Originally Posted by jack the toad

Yes, you can never be too careful. If the shooter was familiar with the safety rules, complacency can also kill. Very tragic and sad.

I wonder how old the shooter was. Two of the big rules of gun safety broken there, well, maybe three. What a shame.

I Shot with my grandson a few times, and he had to recite the rules each time we shot. He was eight when we started, 13 now, and he still repeats them to me. Number one. The muzzle never covers anything you don't want to shoot. Number two. Finger off the trigger, until you are going to fire.

[MCorps0311]

Sad, R.I.P.Child.in Jesus name............Amen

[kaaskop49]

My revised mantra: A TON of prevention is worth an ounce of cure. Similarly, ever time I climb into my car, I repeat aloud what my defensive driving instructor taught me: "Point A to Point B safely."

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

[Donn]

It's been almost 50 years, but I can still hear my old D.I. "Keep that muzzle pointed up, and down range at all times." Too many people play it fast & loose with range safety, even those who should know better. You get one mistake with a gun. Sadly, this young girl paid the price for that split second carelessness.

[Hotshot9]

Very sad ... prayers to this family and friends.
I had to remind a guy who had his 10 year old son sitting at the bench next to me at a local outdoor range to keep his eye on him. He started talking to the guy on the other side of his son. The kid finished shooting his 6 shots with his 22 cal.and turned to look for his dad who was on his right side most of the time "same side as me" and here came the muzzle right at me. I kinda let the guy know my thoughts and also explained to the kid that he should lay his gun down with the muzzle pointing down range when hes finished shooting. I think he was a little scared which in my opinion will stick with him...

[the ringo kid]

Originally Posted by lrb1200

So sad a thread, I'm sorry I even opened it up to read it.

It could have been prevented,

But your added prayers for them would be awfully nice of you.

[ParadiseRoad]

Obituary '|' Jaide Tosseth of Bismarck, North Dakota '|' Eastgate Funeral & Cremation Services

[Ivan the Butcher]

I was on the club's sub-committee to design and install new rifle shooting benches that wouldn't people to over shoot the backstop. When we had proto-types of the final 3 systems constructed, the top people on the Range Committee, came to test the results of our research. These three old (very, very old) men were some of the most unsafe gun people I have ever been around. The chairman swept the whole group of us with a loaded, and safety off, M-1 Grand. Then later in conversation pointed a loaded 30-30 at my brother's belly. After that project I got off any committee in the club, until we could retire these fellows. I was wondering who had been shooting the roof of the backstop to pieces, I think I found the culprits!

Safety is something that is important for every person, every time any gun out of the lock-up!

Ivan

[jack the toad]

Not to hijack or drift but some of the most careless gun handling I've recently seen was at local turkey shoots. The local school vo-ag dept. has them as fundraisers and to help support them, I went. They ran their shoot where 10 shooters took the line and fired at separate targets at the same time. Basically 10 loaded guns hot at the same time.
Our American Legion does it a little different in that we have 10 shooters per relay but only fire one shooter at a time. Since I typically run the firing line, I have only one shooter to watch for unsafe acts, which do happen but have yet to have a mishap. Typically, not being muzzle conscious is the main infraction.

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Originally Posted by Ivan the Butcher

These three old (very, very old) men were some of the most unsafe gun people I have ever been around. The chairman swept the whole group of us with a loaded, and safety off, M-1 Grand. Then later in conversation pointed a loaded 30-30 at my brother's belly. After that project I got off any committee in the club, until we could retire these fellows. I was wondering who had been shooting the roof of the backstop to pieces, I think I found the culprits!

I know it's popular to criticize young folks, but the issues I see at our club (which aren't all that many) are overwhelmingly guys my age, pushing 60 and older. Well experienced and otherwise well disciplined and intelligent guys, but can suffer lapses in attention. We're not talking aged old fools, but ordinary guys who you might find on Net forums lecturing others how important safety is.

[Lee's Landing Billy]

The day after Matthew hit here, 2 young boys, one 17 one 16 went hunting. The 17 year old was moving his shotgun from the back seat to the front seat. Broke rules 1, 2, and 3. 16 year old dead, 17 year old charged with involuntary manslaughter. Bad JUJU all around. These boys were friends for their entire lives. Families torn apart, children dead. Old people die, it's our history, young people die, it's our future.

[Scrapper]

Originally Posted by Lee's Landing Billy

The day after Matthew hit here, 2 young boys, one 17 one 16 went hunting. The 17 year old was moving his shotgun from the back seat to the front seat. Broke rules 1, 2, and 3. 16 year old dead, 17 year old charged with involuntary manslaughter. Bad JUJU all around. These boys were friends for their entire lives. Families torn apart, children dead. Old people die, it's our history, young people die, it's our future.

Oh man that's terrible. Prayers out to that family as well.

It so important to know safe firearm practices it can't be stressed enough. In the many years of shooting, hand loading, hunting the gun is more important than the people around me. It's the only way I could be safe with it. I lost friends thinking that way but never made a mistake so I feel great about that.

I don't believe in "Jinx's" or superstition. A gun owner needs to be aware of many angles. Learn it, Love it and make sure you treat every gun as though it is loaded, cocked and ready to fire.

Be safe everyone.